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After three months of not telling me the full truth , last night my husband finally admitted there were drugs involved during his affair and I feel devastated even more now. We have four children with our youngest being 2. He swears she always brought them and he never paid but I don’t even know what I believe anymore. Besides IC what else should I have him do?

He has had NC since the end of Sept and said he has not done any drugs (he didn’t do them before her that I know of). He broke down and cried last night saying he couldn’t hide that piece of the puzzle from me anymore (I knew there was more he wasn’t telling me) help! I feel like someone kicked me in the stomach. The affair spanned over four months and he claimed he did the drugs ten times. Anyone else have a partner that had an affair with drugs involved? I don’t know what my demands should be if I feel like I want to reconcile, is this something they work on in IC? Now I’m not too sure that I I want to reconcile (not from the drugs so much but the trickle truthing is killing me.)

What drug? Did he do heroin 10 times? Meth? Pot?

There will be members who will tell you that this is just par for the course. That being lied to,at this stage is to be expected. And it is. Reconciliation with a liar and cheater tends to mean you will be lied to, and often have more ddays.

What should YOU have him do? Not a Damn thing. What is HE planning on doing?

You need do decide how much you are willing to tolerate, and put up some boundaries.

[This message edited by HellFire at 12:37 PM, Monday, January 15th]

He did cocaine with her.

You’re right I just don’t know how to suggest things for him to do , he’s asking me for help.
Oh and my boundaries are way up.

Ok. That's a problem. He's asking you to tell him what to do, to basically make this ok with you.

NOPE.

He is a grown ass man. He managed to have an affair..and apparently a drug problem..for months, without your help.

A ws needs to lead reconciliation, in the early months. They need to do the hard work. He's asking you to do it for him. If you do,you have a cheater who checked off some boxes,and then thinks things should be fine.

He knows how to google. He can find a site like this (don't show him this site). He can search for resources. He can get into ic,and tell them about the drugs. They can direct him.

You must stop trying to do his work for him. Your only job right now, is to care for yourself, and the kids. And watch his actions. If you do his work,or tell him what to do, he is still very much a ws.

180. Pull way back. He needs to sleep in another room. Stop cooking and doing his laundry. Watch his actions.

It is deeply troubling that all it took was an offer,and he dived right into cocaine.

It's normal for a bs to want to help their ws. You have trauma bonded with him. Bs tend to be very empathetic. I understand the want to help him. But you can NOT do his work for him.

Also..it's a good thing that he admitted something you didn't know. That shows progress.

On the flip side,I'm sure you have dug into messages,and anything else to get to the entire truth. That you didn't find this..something this major..says it's entirely probable there's a lot you don't know.

Schedule a polygraph. You've gotten a major bit of info, months past dday. Do a polygraph now,so you don't have another dday in a few months.

I just had an intuition that there were more things he didn’t tell me. All of his messages and any contact with her is gone. I kept hounding him last night and he broke. (She wasn’t attractive and he kept saying he used her) I couldn’t grasp what he had used her for and that’s when he spilled it.

You’re right. I am stepping back and telling him to do the work and focusing on me and the kids. I’m just so afraid that something else is going to come out down the road and kill me all over again. I have begged and pleaded for just the entire truth. I have no idea why he can’t just kill me all at once. How selfish.

Could you also shed light on "dday" I know that it’s the day of discovery but does more ddays mean more affairs or more information about the current affair

Maybe I could have looked that up. Sorry.

IMHO the key-factor right now is the drug-use:

Does your husband have any substance abuse issues? Like does he drink daily or weekly. Do you two smoke pot on a regular basis? Has he pop pills to sleep or get through the day?

It’s my view that anyone with a substance abuse issue is incapable of committing to a marriage. The reason being that the drug will always get priority. I have seen numerous instances here on SI where someone with abuse issues seemingly has an affair simply to divert the spouse from the substance-abuse issue to the infidelity.

If this is not an issue – i.e. you don’t think he is using drugs on a regular basis – then part of ANY attempt to reconcile would have to be IMHO regular tests. He would have to agree that for the next six months you are allowed to demand he do a test and that he complies within the hour. Even if that means you have to stand beside him in the bathroom when he’s pissing on a test-stick.

One final point:
He needs to understand that he has a very limited window to answer everything you need answered. If you can then have it factual rather than emotional. Like if he thought OW was sexy or whatever isn’t really an issue – the issue is he broke his vows with her. Make it clear to him that any discovery you make in a week or month will cause immensely more damage than anything he shares with you NOW.

No. We don’t do drugs of any kind and he doesn’t drink. I did find out when he was younger he had did cocaine recreationally and I knew he used to smoke pot when he was younger. He claimed they joked at work about cocaine and she would show up with it when they met up. Apparently she was eager to please him? I don’t even know.

He told me that between the drugs and the sex he felt like a "rockstar" when at home he felt like he was nothing other than a dad that couldn’t provide for his children.

I mentioned the Polly and he got upset and said "I came believe you would make me do that" he said he would but immediately told me that he didn’t have anything to hide and that he was devastated that my trust and faith in him were gone. I told him that taking the emotions out of it, I need to worry about my mental health and my kids and that if he wanted to prove anything to me it would need to be based on facts and not the whole " I will prove my love to you."

Something isn't right. It's been over 3 months, and he may still be holding back some significant info, and he's surprised you have no trust or faith in him? He's devastated?

I don't know what isn't right, but something is missing.

Has he done a timeline? Will he? If he won't, I think you're stuck with an unremorseful WS right now. (Not so BTW, the timeline itself is a good subject for a poly, and it may point to other questions that the examiner can ask.)

Have you considered doing https://survivinginfidelity.com/topics/598080/the-simplified-180/?ap=1 ? (The '?' is not part of the URL.) Especially in light of this thread, I think detaching is likely to help you.

D - don’t

E - even

T - think

A - about

C - changing

H – him.

If he chooses to change himself, great, but changing for you would be a problem. If he changes for you, he'll blame you for his trouble when it gets difficult.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:05 PM, Monday, January 15th]

Yes, something isn't sitting right with me either.
He said he is devastated that I am questioning our entire marriage other than the last 6 months.
he said that he can't stand himself for making me not trust our past...
He has agreed to a timeline as well as my 85 question paper i typed up with dates and questions that he will give to me tonight,before counseling with very factual questions as when, where, money spent, feelings all of that, number of meet ups, etc.
I will read the answers and possibly decide whether the timeline is necessary?

You are right, I did read the 180 and I will implement that starting tonight when I drop marriage counseling.
To me our marriage is dead until he works on himself for himself.

I agree with Sisoon. Something is off. Something is missing. For a WH to be "devastated" by your loss in trust and faith at this point. . .I just have no words. He betrayed EVERY vow he ever made to you. He lied to you every SECOND of the day for months. He’s a dad who had unsafe sex (there is no "safe" sex with someone you hardly know and are doing drugs with) and did COCAINE with a woman he doesn’t know at all really. Why on EARTH would you have an ounce of faith and trust in him right now? Why would you not be questions every.single.word. That comes out of his mouth? He should understand that at the very least.

The fact that he used cocaine "recreationally" before he knew you and that that is the drug he returned to during the A is also a big red flag. As Bigger mentioned, her offering exactly that drug may have been the big draw. He let himself betray every value and person in his life for some coke and a bit of strange. IT’s hard to even comprehend, but I agree that when drugs are involved, all bets are off. Hell, when infidelity is involved, all bets are off, so times two here.

The 180 is definitely the way to go. Set your boundaries IN STONE and stick with them. Let him figure out what to do and then you get to judge if it’s anywhere near sufficient.

Where you go from here is your decision. I’ll say that from my experience with drug users and cheaters, as a parent of young children, this would probably be it for me. Not because you don’t love him. Not because your kids don’t need him. But because he was able to look at you and his kids and do this. There is something profoundly broken in a person who can look at his children and his wife and go off to do some cocaine and screw a woman he has nothing with and come home again . That brokenness causes great harm, and sadly, the greatest harm is often to those around him. Kids are most definitely not unaffected by any of this. How will you ever trust that he would never return to either of these escapes if things get tough?

For a BH, recovery (for yourself) is a long road. For a WH, recovery is a REALLY difficult path. They have to look at ugliness that they’ve hidden from themselves and avoided instead of deciding that they didn’t want to be who they were and doing the work. It takes brutal self-honesty that most aren’t capable of, sadly. They have a long history of running and hiding from their own brokenness and ugliness. They are supremely self-protecting and selfish. He is already looking away, if you notice, from what he sees in your eyes. You are not a mirror of love and admiration for him now and he may or may not be able to handle that. Keep watching and see what he does with it. Drugs AND infidelity make the challenges exponentially worse.

Wishing you the best. You’ll get great advice here—even when you’re not ready to hear it yet. Take what helps and come back to what is too difficult later. This is a journey with many phases. Know that you’ll get where you need to go if you’re true to yourself and your kids. He is ON HIS OWN now. Maybe he’ll get his shit together, maybe he won’t. But you can’t let him drag you and your kids with him.

I really appreciate your honesty even if it stings.
I do agree that he relies on me too much to be a "good" person. He says things like "you make me a better person" " I need you". "You keep me in church" I honestly feel like he wants to be a good person but deep down he’s a broken mess of a man and he puts an act on for me and the kids . He seems to blame circumstances as well for his issues and I’ve mentioned many times that he can’t do that.

As far as seeing what he does after I do the 180. What are good signs I should look for?

The fact that he used cocaine "recreationally" before he knew you and that that is the drug he returned to during the A is also a big red flag

As far as this, what red flag should it be?
Sorry I have ideas but what did you specifically mean?

When he says things like "you make me a better person," and "you keep me in church," he’s making you responsible for keeping him on track and absolving himself of the responsibility to monitor and moderate his own behavior. This doesn’t work. It makes you the cop, and when you’re not around, it absolves him of the need to do the right thing as an adult, autonomous person. This is very dangerous. He doesn’t hold himself accountable and expects you to do that. My WH was/is the same. It allowed him to be okay with hiding things from me so that he could do things that he knew wouldn’t be okay. It fostered sneakiness, lying, and hiding.

Blaming everything except themselves is a hallmark of wayward mindset. Being a poor victim of circumstance rather than an agent of horribly destructive behavior is an easy path to doing very bad shit and excusing it. He has to own and monitor his own behavior like any adult. He’s a father, for crying out loud. When he says that you control his good behavior, he is making himself another child (a horribly problematic and destructive one) for you to be responsible for, but where is HIS responsibility as a parent, husband, role model, etc. If he really WANTS to be a good person, it’s not like it’s a huge, hidden mystery how to do that. Don’t cheat, for one. Don’t lie. Don’t enable bad behavior for yourself. Don’t do cocaine when you’re supposed to be focused on being a good dad and husband. These are not obscure concepts.

The reason that I see returning to the same drug as a flag is that wayward behavior follows pathways that don’t just spring up out of nothing. They usually have been present all along, sometimes in smaller, less obvious or less destructive ways. An affair very seldom springs out of nothing at all. When some waywards find themselves in difficult or challenging circumstances (parenthood is a big one, difficulties at work, a life loss of some kind, greater need for support by a spouse, or just your everyday, run-of-the-mill insecurities), there is already a pattern—sometimes a lifelong pattern—of hiding or running from those difficulties into familiar escapes. Again, these may have manifested themselves in small, selfish ways before or even in bigger ones, but they’re seldom brand new behaviors. It’s one of the big reasons that someone who has used any kind of drug/alcohol in the past as an escape will often find themselves drawn to repeat that behavior when they want to run away from something.

You’ll probably find yourself thinking back to a variety of red flags that you’ve ignored in the past. That is a typical part of the BS journey through all of this—putting pieces together and connecting dots. What was tolerable before may very well become a deal breaker for you now because you now see it for what it is.

You’re doing great right now, believe it or not. You’re seeking help, asking questions, and working on some distance to give you perspective. One of the best pieces of advice that’s often shared around here is: actions not words. If his mouth is moving right now, it means nothing. Talk is absolutely cheap and worthless. Actions are always the hard part, consistent, long-term, trust-building actions. Promises and assurances are just scrambling to save himself. HE doesn’t have any idea if he can keep them right now. He shouldn’t even believe himself.

This isn’t because he’s a horrible person; it’s because he has lost himself and is just flailing around in the dark after having blown up his and your world. Right now, he has no idea why he behaves this way and probably less idea of how to start climbing out, so he’s looking to you to save him. That’s not your job. You can’t do it even if you were willing and wanted to. He needs to be in counseling yesterday to figure his shit out. He has a very long road to understanding and changing himself. Many waywards (most?) find this too difficult and too threatening.

I don’t say any of this to be harsh, so I hope it doesn’t come off that way. Being a new BS was the most traumatic experience of my life. I too had young children to worry about, and every security I had was pulled out from under me. I wanted to trust and depend on the person that I had always trusted and depended on, and that ultimately led to a lot more pain and betrayal. It took me awhile to realize that the shock of being caught did not produce some sudden revelation and reformation at all. My WH didn’t and still doesn’t have ANY of the self-knowledge, personal accountability, and strength to shoulder the responsibility for what he had done and the pain that he had caused. My WH tried to get me to do the hard stuff without doing very much himself besides wring his hands, spiral into shame, and try to wait it out. Sadly, that is the perfect recipe to again find himself hiding in old behaviors.

Most here will try to get you to focus on yourself and your kids and what you need to be safe right now. Take your focus off of him and let him see what he can do. Watch what he does from here. This will help you know if he’s capable of ever being a safe partner and parent.

Wishing you peace and strength for the way forward.

No , you did not come of harsh and even if you did, honesty is better than lies. I feel like all I have gotten were lies. I do feel like he is remorseful, I really do, I also believe on the flipside he doesn't KNOW HOW to be a safe person. He has always been a selfish human being since I met him and apparently I loved him anyway. Everything was about him and his goals, his dreams. He does not know how to tell the truth because all hes ever known is running and hiding. Porn always used to be his escape, even if it bothered me he never stopped, so yes red flags have been there the whole time. Looking back I can see all of the ways he ran and hid from all of his issues. Seems like when porn wasn't enough anymore it led to an affair and drugs. I feel like that is a huge leap though so I am now, of course wondering what was in the middle. It started off as an EA then went quickly to a PA , so maybe the crossing of the boundaries was the middle part.

I just don't see how a person that never had an affair or did any sort of betrayal went into a full fledge cocaine addicted affair. To me there should have been stepping stones, easier things to conquer leading up to it, which I have already brought up to him, but I will again.

Yes , he is not a safe space for my children or me at this point in time and my focus will go directly to myself and my children.

I am scared because we share a home that his parents own (paid off) his parents know very little about what we are going through, other than he messed up and we have counseling now.
I am wondering if the drugs would be worth bringing up now to them? Maybe not me bringing them up but him? This sounds so stupid but I feel like accountability outside of our marriage would be helpful? I feel like maybe the infidelity part doesn't need said but the drug use is a huge deal to everyone that is close to him, am I reaching?

Once again I really appreciate your advice and I don't know where I would be without this site.

It sounds like he's a bit of a manchild who relies on your influence to act like a grownup, despite being the parent of 4 kids. The fact that he had an A with a 23 year old drug user who allowed him to avoid his responsibilities at work/home in order to revert to being a fun, irresponsible kid again is so obviously an escapist A/Peter Pan syndrome that I don't even need to be a therapist to call it. Just a wild guess, he struggles with responsibility and criticism and him acting like a kid in your relationship, while you take care of the grown up tasks for the home and family is par for the course in your relationship? I meant to comment on it on another one of your posts, but he absolutely needs to be attending IC more frequently than once a month. 12 hours/year is not enough for him to make any significant progress.

....he’s asking me for help.

Aka... "I need you now more than ever. I'm a mess, I don't know what I'd do without you - please don't leave me." Stop doing the work for him. The fact that he's surprised by your loss of trust in him, suggests to me that he's not truly facing the realities of all this (either that or he's trying to manipulate you into NOT doing a poly). If and when he's actually putting the effort into R, and you decide that it's something you want, it's okay to be a partner to him in it, but a partner is NOT the same as a manager. "Doing the work" is not putting your partner in charge, and asking her to make a list for you and expecting her to monitor your progress and give you a gold star for effort. Watch to see what he's doing when you're not standing over him watching.

Good for you for standing up for yourself and taking a step back from R. He's clearly not yet a safe person for you yet. Maybe he will be in the future, but you need to look out for yourself. Trickle truth is soul crushing to someone who has already started the difficult process of putting their heart out there again in order to attempt R. To find out that there has been any continued lies is absolutely brutal. Him giving you full details of what went on better be his number one priority right now. When I got some TT a few months out, after starting the process of building back trust, I legitimately felt DONE for the first time since my original D-day. I kicked my H out of the house and told him I didn't care where he stayed - he could stay with OW for all I cared. I told him he needed to inform his family (something that I'd previously been hesitant to do). It must have scared the shit out of my husband, because he absolutely sprung into action. He came back the next morning with breakfast, his tail between his legs, and a detailed timeline, and a list of 3-4 other things that I didn't know about (he'd kept a list!!! (A LIST!).

It’s my view that anyone with a substance abuse issue is incapable of committing to a marriage.

Agree. From what you've told us, this does not rise to the level of an active addiction, but I don't know if we've heard all of it yet. Proceed cautiously. If you have not done so already, consult with a lawyer to see what D would entail should that be where this is headed. You don't ever have to use that information, but it will enable you to be strategic with your next steps and get your ducks in a row while you wait to see if he's going to be able to pull it together or not. I get it, divorce is scary, but there is so much power that comes from being equipped with knowledge. The unknown is scary. Knowledge gives you power and options, and makes you much less likely to settle for anything less than what you deserve, which is a safe PARTNER in your marriage and family. You deserve nothing less.

We cross posted but NowWhat106 is giving you incredible advice. 10/10 last post there NowWhat.

He’s NOT remorseful. He has regrets maybe. But it’s still ALL ABOUT HIM in his mind.

*He’s upset that you don’t trust him, not that he DID THE VERY THINGS THAT VIOLATED THE TRUST.

remorse would be him being upset at what he did to you, not how it reflect on him.
He;s still all about him. It’s almost that he is sorry you feel that way, not taking responsibility for why you feel that way.

I’m so sorry. I think focusing on you and your kids is he right approach.

I thought my WH was remorseful too, for what it’s worth. And he wasn’t even CLOSE. What he was was very, very regretful that he had gotten caught and was now in such a very difficult situation for himself. REGRET is feeling super sorry for himself because of all of the consequences of his horrible actions. REMORSE is being gutted and devastated by the pain that he has caused you, your children, your family, your marriage, and everyone around him.

Which one does he seem like he’s experiencing more? Does he ask constantly how he can help you? (Note: this is NOT the same as asking how he can make it all better and make it go away.). I mean, does he ask if you need space from him to process and the go away COMPLETELY if you say yes? Does he ask if he can take the kids to do something fun so that you can just collapse? Does he suggest that it might be helpful for you to take a nap while he takes over all of your responsibilities? Does he make dinner and clean the house and schedule you a massage (or anything else that he knows is helpful to you) without needing 50 pats on the head and attaboys? Does he read things and try to understand his behavior and report back to you about what HE is learning about the whys of betrayal and drug use? Has he reached out to seek help in order to not repeat his drug use and infidelity EVER? Has he attended AA meetings (yes, that should be something he does even if neither of you think he’s an actual addict—it keeps him accountable to someone other than you.)? Has he DONE ANYTHING remotely like any of this? Remorse is proactive, accountable, and outwardly focused. Regret is self-pitying and focused on himself and how much it sucks to be him right now. It is very counter-productive to your healing while remorse isn’t. Just feeling bad and sorry is, and I can’t say this enough, NOTHING or WORSE than nothing.

Seems like when porn wasn't enough anymore it led to an affair and drugs. I feel like that is a huge leap though so I am now, of course wondering what was in the middle. It started off as an EA then went quickly to a PA , so maybe the crossing of the boundaries was the middle part. I just don't see how a person that never had an affair or did any sort of betrayal went into a full fledge cocaine addicted affair. To me there should have been stepping stones, easier things to conquer leading up to it, which I have already brought up to him, but I will again.

That is a fruitful observation. There is so much still hidden from you. He had a very bad reaction to the request for a polygraph. That is telling. What he resists the most forcefully is probably what is most needed, i.e., you should pursue the poly. There are always lots of little steps and decisions along the way to a betrayal. It doesn’t just "happen." Both of you will have to understand that well-worn path and the types of steps that, for him, lead to sneaking, hiding, lying, and betraying. You need to know the whole truth in order to know what you would have to swallow in order to stay married to him—and what you would have to watch out for in the future because, yes, you will/would ALWAYS be watching out for any sign that he is using or lying or slipping or cheating again. Forever. If you decide to go the route of R.

I am wondering if the drugs would be worth bringing up now to them? Maybe not me bringing them up but him? This sounds so stupid but I feel like accountability outside of our marriage would be helpful? I feel like maybe the infidelity part doesn't need said but the drug use is a huge deal to everyone that is close to him, am I reaching?

This is another VERY productive thought. Accountability that isn’t you is VERY helpful. It doesn’t sound stupid at all. It sounds very, very wise. My question is: why do you want to protect him from having them know about his infidelity? His parents should know about both the drug use and his cheating. Why should you have to carry that weight alone and keep his dirty secrets? To protect him? Nah. Just nope. This is part of your work: letting go of protecting, coddling, excusing, covering, and forgiving behaviors that he, as an adult person, husband and father, should not do if he doesn’t want them known about. What happened here is ALL on him. You shouldn’t protect him from the consequences. IT’s not your dirty secret.

Do keep in mind that they are who raised him, so their responses may not be healthy at all times, but having someone else know is a great way of having light on what he’s done and making him face it. Remember: you have probably always been his safe spot to air his bad behavior with. He has depended on you to tolerate it, to "make him a better person" by letting him slide, to support his selfishness and focus on his goals and dreams. That doesn’t just go away for either of you. He will continue to expect for you to prop him up and do his work and focus on him instead of you. It’s a very ingrained habit by now. And it’s an ingrained habit for you too. He cries and you comfort. You make excuses for him. You try to get over things. You question whether or not you’re making too big a deal out of things. Many of us here have done exactly this. I did exactly this. Having someone else be shocked and critical of what he’s done is a very good thing for you. It is validating and takes some of the weight of holding him accountable off of you.

You are getting great advice from so many, HellFire, Bigger, Sisoon, Emergent8, BearlyBreathing. We’re here to support you on this shared path that none of us wanted to be on. You’re doing great. One step at a time. Focus on what you and the kids need and do/get it, whatever it is.