SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Good evening everyone, and I hope you all are enjoying the starts to your summer. I am trying to get through the recent warmup in temperatures and getting caught up on lost sleep!

I have this friend who I used to work with at the high school I was working at up until the end of this school year. She herself went through the force transfer process herself several years back, and never really found a good fit again after that, so she decided to leave teaching to do a different career. She is probably one of my closest friends these days and has done so much for me this year in terms of not only listening to me vent and giving me advice while telling me jokes, but she has also helped me revamp my resume very recently, and even volunteered on her own to help me with some curriculum materials and lesson notes to help my students. She has been a great friend and I am so glad we stayed in touch after she transferred to a different school. We talk frequently on the phone, near daily, and we hung out twice earlier this school year, once at my house and once at a dance club I would frequent. Sadly, I just found out that club closed down for renovations! I am sad because I waited all school year looking forward to going back there again, and now it's not even available. It was a dance club I'd been going to for over 25 years, and a lot of the regulars stuck around too, so it has been mostly an older crowd (40s-50s) in recent years, which I appreciate, being a woman in my 50s. But anyway, so the club is no more. But my friend keeps wanting to take me out. She keeps telling me I can do better than my boyfriend R, and has funny little nicknames for him too, such as calling him a certain slang word for a male's genitals that also happens to be a nickname for his name haha. (I guess it is kind of funny, haha) She says "we gotta get you away from R and show you all the better guys out there". I am not so sure I'm up for that, but I do appreciate her effort?

One thing about this friend: she just had another baby a little over a year ago, is married with two kids, but doesn't seem happy in her marriage at all. In fact, she's hinted or alluded to stuff this year that has me thinking her husband might have cheated or is cheating. She seems to think it's okay to gawk and flirt with guys then. She keeps wanting to go to a male strip club within an hour away, and keeps asking me and her best friend to go with her. I mentioned the strip club to R last week. He said, "what, you're going to watch other women strip?" I said no, of course not, that would be weird to watch women, it's a club with male dancers. He immediately said "You're not going to any male strip club" and that was end of story. It turns out my friend was very disappointed I didn't go. I gave her excuses about already planning to go to the gym that night because while her jokes about R are at times funny, sometimes I get tired of hearing them.

It seems she went last week anyway, by herself, and had a great time, in fact probably too good of a time to the point I wonder if something more happened with one of the guys. She phoned me at one point while she was there, and she sounded really happy and having fun. I admitted at the time of the call I was a bit jealous of her haha. So now she keeps asking me to go with her. When I told her the gym reason again, she told me "you can go to the gym any ol time, this is SPECIAL" then teased me that I was chicken. She sent me a little chicken emoji and an emoji with its tongue hanging out. Maybe I am. I'm just not sure if it's right to go when it is clearly not okay with R. Wouldn't it be a betrayal to engage in such a situation? She says it would be a great eye widening opportunity for me, but I'm still not sure. I'm also trying to keep the peace so I can have a good summer with R and finally get to go to the shore for a week with him, a trip that I didn't get to do last year or the year before. How should I respond if this friend keeps asking?

I read your post a couple of times. Here is my take on it. You've got this great friend. She's been there for you, both when she worked with you and when she went to another school. She's helped you with your resume, your notes and things for your students, even though they are not her students and she was work of her own. And she has a husband and two kids to deal with, which can be another full time job all together. And she listens to your rants, which by your own admission are many. How lucky you are to have such a friend.

Then there is "R". From everything you've said on this site to describe him, he is the complete opposite of your friend. He doesn't work, he's grumpy, you've caught him kissing other women, and he withholds things he knows you would like to do, seemingly out of the enjoyment of the control it gives him. While Covid was an issue, one year he just wouldn't invite you to the house on the shore until the summer was over and he knew it was too late. Mind you, he enjoyed it the whole time and invited other people. Your friend, this kind and caring good friend, clearly sees what he is.

So I'm guessing that you vented to your friend about your favorite club closing and how disappointed you are. And being the kind friend that she is, she invited you out, probably because she's been listening to you, helping you, and knows you really need a night out. It was a strip club, which wouldn't be my first choice either, but you turned her down in part because you listened to "R" who said no. The opinion of the person treating you badly, not inviting you to holidays, purposely withholding the shore house from you, who does nothing for you, (but show up to use your internet) and is grumpy, was the person you listened to.

Here's the most interesting thing about what you wrote. Your friend thinks her husband might be cheating, she two kids including a one year old, and is unhappy. Who wouldn't be? Many of us have been there. If her desire to blow off steam and feel like a woman again means going to a strip club and "gawking" who in the world are you to judge her? Did it ever occur to you for one second that she was inviting you because she needed you for once? She needed a gal pal to go do something wild with? How freakin hard would it have been to say yes? But wait. "R" rightly also known as "Dick" said no. And you can't have him unhappy because what's far more important than your friend is going to the shore.

So you asked what you should do if she asks again. My opinion is you should ask her what time she wants you to pick her up and hope to God you can salvage this friendship. Because in her you have real friendship.

[This message edited by Charity411 at 3:13 PM, Sunday, June 26th]

Good morning, and thank you for taking the time to respond. I agree my friend is a good friend. She has been a tremendous help and support to me this year. Yes, she hears me vent, but it is a 2-way give and take. I hear her vent too, as she is very talkative, which I like. She's gotten me to open up more about how I really feel about stuff. Actually, this website has helped me to open up too. It is so nice to have people to talk to and express my feelings. Thank you for that. My boyfriend R does listen to me vent too, and there are actually times where I worry that I am venting way too much to all of you on this website and to my former colleague friend. R is still the absolute only person I can truly be 100% myself around. I would like to have other people I can open up to like that, but I am not close enough to anyone else yet and of the few who I am growing closer to, I haven't known them nearly as long to have that kind of rapport.

I admit some of your post was a little hurtful. Such as assuming R took other people to the shore all summer instead of me. You might be right, it is possible he probably is, whether that be his motorcycle club members or, as my former colleague friend says, another woman.

You are right that my friend needs a wingman (wingwoman?) to go out with. I know she got upset with me near the beginning of the month when she went to a bar directly off the train that she usually takes to and from work, wanting to celebrate at Friday happy hour that her final grades were done and that she was now officially free of grading papers forever (because she was quitting teaching), but I wasn't able to make it. She went there and phoned a few friends but no one else was able to meet her there too. She got annoyed because she felt that the bartenders were snubbing her from ordering a drink because she was a woman there alone by herself, and when she phoned me, she blamed me for her "looking like a loser" being there by herself. I tried to explain to her that while her grades were done and finalized, mine still weren't, and I still had other tasks to catch up on. She couldn't relate to my situation with cleaning out the entire classroom and walk-in lab closet, a task I had never been given before and had to figure out on my own how to do everything with that and where everything is supposed to go. I know she was upset, but my job comes first and again, I could not afford to get a write-up or fired when there's only 5 years left of my career until pension. I will try to reach out to her though and listen more attentively to her because you are right, she's probably unhappy and feels lonely, being a new mom and having rifts with her husband. She and her husband were working alternate shifts, her on days and him on nights, because that was the only way they could avoid a huge childcare bill that they couldn't afford, by eliminating the need for childcare. I cannot imagine the stress that comes with that. Also she's had car problems in recent months, which is why she has had to take the train every day to work down to center city to her school, something she doesn't seem to mind too much but I know I would not like doing at all. I will reach out to her later this morning to check in and see how she is doing.

Now as for the male strip clubs, I will admit that it's not just R telling me not to go, but I just feel very uncomfortable about the idea of going to a place like that. My friend seems persistent about it, but it's just not my thing. I have tried telling her this and giving her hints when she won't listen, but she keeps talking about strippers and strip clubs. I also admit I feel a little uncomfortable about the idea that she's doing it because she might be looking to cheat back on her husband. I wouldn't want anything to happen and then it come back on me that I was the enabler.

[This message edited by teacherjoggergal at 2:57 PM, Sunday, June 26th]

So why don't you make plans for a night out and invite her? I get that you don't like strip clubs, but why do you expect her to come up with a different plan just to suit you? Stop hinting around and take charge yourself. That would be so much better than insinuating that she's up to no good when you really have no idea if that's true. I know scores of women who have been to a male strip club at one time or another and not one of them was looking to hook up.

Plan a fun night out. With your friend.

Escape room. Spa & Beauty or pampering session.

Ax throwing. Something. Anything.

Go to a pub. Have a drink or two. Dance at a NEW place.

POINT is - do something!!!

So why don't you make plans for a night out and invite her? I get that you don't like strip clubs, but why do you expect her to come up with a different plan just to suit you? Stop hinting around and take charge yourself. That would be so much better than insinuating that she's up to no good when you really have no idea if that's true. I know scores of women who have been to a male strip club at one time or another and not one of them was looking to hook up.

The reason I feel she's cheating or looking to cheat is because of things she told me in the last few weeks. For example, when she was at the strip club, she sounded completely ecstatic and excited, more than I'd ever seen her before, and she heavily hinted that something had happened when she referred to herself as "a bad girl". Then a few days later she told me about a tall buff black stripper she met there, how she thought he was the hottest stripper in the whole club, and how she felt so lucky because he took a liking to her and invited her to join him in the bathroom. She did say she didn't go through with everything because she's married but she had wanted to. She then talked about how she wished she had had sex with him. Then a day later she asked both her best friend and then me by text "Lol is it wrong if I go back to that club and do the stuff I wanted to do with that hot stripper but didn't?" I responded by text "Yes it's wrong. Even though your husband could be cheating with strippers too. Because two wrongs don't make a right." She didn't like my response, evident by her responding in a snarky sarcastic way by telling me that was a dumb and outdated saying, outdated in the sense that it's only the type of saying ever used by parents and grade school teachers said to small children to keep them from acting disruptive. She then said I have no room to talk because of times in the past when I would occasionally make out in cars with boys from the night club I used to go to during times R and I were on a break or had a rocky, uncertain dating status (this was 10-15 years ago). I thought about it and later in the day when I had some free time, I responded back that she was right, I shouldn't judge her then. I guess I was just as bad as she is.

My suggestion for a night out is not a strip club and hopefully an opportunity to reconnect.

Tell her you will not pass judgement on her choices and will always be her friend. Tell her that you gave your opinion, which is from your perspective and she can choose what she will do w/out repercussions.

If she cheats she cheats. You don’t have to be a party to it.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 6:42 PM, Sunday, June 26th]

She keeps telling me I can do better than my boyfriend R

She is absolutely right. You've posted often about him, he doesn't even treat you as a real girlfriend, has never been faithful to you, and often treats you poorly.

He immediately said "You're not going to any male strip club" and that was end of story.

You should not feel the need to obey a man you are dating. Especially one who treats you poorly and is not faithful to you.

I'm also trying to keep the peace so I can have a good summer with R and finally get to go to the shore for a week with him, a trip that I didn't get to do last year or the year before.

The fact that he hasn't taken you with him for two summers says a lot. He went, but he didn't go alone, OP. He went with other women. He is not your boyfriend and your friend is 100% right about him. It is so sad that you feel the need to obey him to try to curry his favor enough to get to go on a trip with him. Please get some therapy.

How should I respond if this friend keeps asking?

If her husband knows she's going and all you're doing is looking, then morally, it's okay for you two to go. You should not let Richard's opinion weigh into it as he does not treat you as a girlfriend at all, and has been unfaithful to you himself. Stop kowtowing to him.

One thing about this friend: she just had another baby a little over a year ago, is married with two kids, but doesn't seem happy in her marriage at all. In fact, she's hinted or alluded to stuff this year that has me thinking her husband might have cheated or is cheating.

This has me thinking through the lens of my own experience. I’m not saying this is the case but there are some similarities to my experience.

When my WW started pulling away from me I was doing anything to please her, pick me dance?

I was agreeable to anything if it made her feel better, girls nights out, girls trips, and I finally gave her the distance she wanted, less affection, and backed off. Her and her single "wing woman" read my actions as I was cheating, this helped them justify my WW flirting with the slippery slope, and eventually diving head first into multiple A’s.

I was at home watching the kids while she was doing all this. I would’ve never believed my WW would have an A. Her friend was cheering her on. I was doing everything to make her happy, while also appearing to be the villain.

If my WW really thought I was having an A, she would have investigated or confronted me, has your friend investigated this at all?

She is M with young children. You should do things with her but keep her away from the slippery slope or anything that could destroy her M.

Again this is how I see it through my lens. Not saying this is the case, but there are some red flags here.

If her husband knows she's going and all you're doing is looking, then morally, it's okay for you two to go. You should not let Richard's opinion weigh into it as he does not treat you as a girlfriend at all, and has been unfaithful to you himself. Stop kowtowing to him.

No, he did not know she went. She actually bragged and laughed to us that she made an excuse that she needed to go down to the city for a girls night out with her best friend, but actually went to the strip club by herself. She also told me she's perused various female strip clubs too, again by herself or sometimes with various male friends who she already knows or who she meets online for the purpose of having a friend to take her to strip clubs, since some of the female strip clubs do not allow women to visit unescorted unless they come with a man. She did say that she doesn't feel an obligation to tell him she's going to these strip bars when he has gone to some without her. She also said that there's plenty of times they will go to strip clubs together as a couple, but her night at the male strip club was not one of those. I'd much rather go to a regular night club, one with dancing, which she has also been to before, once with me.

No, he did not know she went. She actually bragged and laughed to us that she made an excuse that she needed to go down to the city for a girls night out with her best friend, but actually went to the strip club by herself. She also told me she's perused various female strip clubs too, again by herself or sometimes with various male friends who she already knows or who she meets online for the purpose of having a friend to take her to strip clubs, since some of the female strip clubs do not allow women to visit unescorted unless they come with a man. She did say that she doesn't feel an obligation to tell him she's going to these strip bars when he has gone to some without her.

Big difference here, she knows he went, but is hiding that she is going. She is headed for infidelity and looking for co conspirators. You should stay far away from this.

If my WW really thought I was having an A, she would have investigated or confronted me, has your friend investigated this at all?

She is M with young children. You should do things with her but keep her away from the slippery slope or anything that could destroy her M.

Again this is how I see it through my lens. Not saying this is the case, but there are some red flags here.

Thank you so much for sharing your story. I am so sorry to hear that you went through such an unfairly bad experience. Are you still married to your "WW" or did you separate after you found out about the affair?

I don't know enough about their situation to tell, one way or another, how their marriage is or if they've ever confronted each other. Overall it seems to me that they've had their ups and downs but overall get along pretty well. I haven't met her husband and have only talked to him maybe twice on the phone, but he seemed like a really nice guy and gave me car advice when I struck something and split my brand new car's tire. I will take your advice and try to steer her away from any situation where she might have temptation to cheat or flirt. I would definitely want to see them stick together to raise their kids!

I'm not buying this story, honestly. Male strippers do not invite random women to go into bathrooms with them. Imagine the legal liability here if the woman cried assault or whatnot.

Sounds to me like your friend has an active fantasy life.

I'm not buying this story, honestly. Male strippers do not invite random women to go into bathrooms with them. Imagine the legal liability here if the woman cried assault or whatnot.

Sounds to me like your friend has an active fantasy life.

I never thought of that, but I think you are onto something! You are right when you say there's huge liability there, particularly in the wake of the Me Too movement! I've never known this friend to lie, but perhaps she is just making up a story as a joke or to try to entice my interest so I'll be more likely to go out with her? She did say that she really wants to take me out to show me "there's way better fish in the sea than [her nickname for my boyfriend]" She also frequently texts me photos of attractive buff younger guys, such as actors and pro models, to distract me away from R. I feel concerned that she'd go to the extent of making up stories to convince me that life is more exciting if I go out with her, but I also feel a little relieved that she probably didn't actually do anything wrong to her husband or her marriage.

I agree that you should definitely plan to spend some time with your friend. She is obviously wanting/needing that from you.

I can’t say that I understand why, if you don’t feel comfortable going to a strip club, you don’t just say to her that you don’t feel comfortable going there, Instead of just making excuses. And if she continues to try to influence you or pressure you to go with her, knowing that you have no interest in going, then I would question her motives.

Each person has their own comfort level. I have no interest in going to a male strip club. The thought actually repulses me. I’m not trying to pass judgment on people who do enjoy it. I simply do not. And I would expect a friend to understand and respect that. So if I was asked by a friend to go, I would tell them that I would not go to the strip club, but I would love to … fill in the blank.

If she is not interested in going somewhere else or doing something else with you, then I’m not buying that she’s just needing your company. She is wanting you to be in a strip club for some reason, and I would not feel comfortable with that, regardless of your boyfriend.

No is a complete sentence and does not make you a bad person. I think, Teacherjogger, that many of your threads revolve around your difficulty saying No (annuity guy, brother, etc.). Definitely something to work on. It shouldn't be this difficult to tell someone No, especially at our age.