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I'm reluctant to talk about this because I may have to dodge some 2x4's.

We had a really wonderful night last night, dinner, sex until the wee hours of the morning, like the old days, and no talk of the A's. We have a nephew graduating from the Naval Academy and we talked about doing something for him. He's among the finest of young men these days.

Over breakfast Andi wanted to talk about the OM and why she had her A. I asked why we had to talk about it.

"I just want to focus on us," I said.

But I didn't resist any further and didn't minimize her need to talk about it.

She explained that her A was about selfishness. Growing up she was daddy's little girl and basically got whatever she wanted. This is true.

She then went about comparing me and her AP to deserts. Yes, those things we eat to satisfy our sweet tooth.

She said in life and in the bedroom I was the fully loaded banana split with Rocky Road ice cream, nuts, whip cream and the cherry on top - and the OM was the stale donut that had been sitting in the break room at work for two weeks that no one else wanted.

"I was greedy," she said. "I wanted the stale donut too."

"In the case of the OM, he was the donut daring me to take a bite," she said.

I almost lost it, then bit my tongue when I wanted to tell her that it was no consolation to me for her blowing the OM. I looked before I leaped this time, paused, and told her "thank you for being honest."

She said she needed to work on her selfishness, that the MC was right. She found a new MC for other reasons. I think she gets the creeps when talking to another woman about our problems with me in the room. I could feel some antagonism there between the two of them.

I'm still reconciling the banana split thing in my head. A lot to process there. Like she'd lower her standards over me to get instant gratification from a stale donut. I think this will come up with our new MC. She's always said the OM was just an indulgence, but I guess her explanation is her attempt to fix herself. I was glad I kept my mouth shut this time.

She also asked if I wanted to talk about the OW.

"no, she is the last thing on my mind," I said.

This is true.

If the OW was bleeding on the side of the road I wouldn't stop to help her. That's how much I hate her for breaking NC and putting things in a tail spin for us again.

No bashing please. I really am trying to save my marriage.

[This message edited by MyAndI at 12:44 PM, April 24th (Saturday)]

Yes, an odd skill to have to develop. Needing to be so kind and considerate to the person we should have been able to trust the most in the world just so they feel comfortable sharing the information needed to have a chance at relieving a modicum of the pain, mind movies, involuntary intrusive thoughts, bleak depression, sense of worthlessness and futility that has been inflicted on us.

Were the situation reversed we’d offer every detail and accept every deserved outburst of rage and not shut down communication. Which is probably one of the many reasons the situation is NOT reversed.

To the specific issue, maybe having a scheduled time reserved for her to talk about the OM would keep her from talking about him when you don’t want her to.

Edit: Sorry, just saw your bio. Not sure how you behaved disclosing/discussing your affair but if you handled that the way you’d prefer her to behave now you could mention that as an example, compare and contrast, and get her to understand and agree that a certain approach works better. Even just discussing the issue would help regardless of the outcome.

As someone who is often clueless about anything less than direct, clearly-stated requests, is it possible she was unaware that you were asking her not to talk about the OM at that time?

[This message edited by Papercoversrock at 1:33 PM, April 24th (Saturday)]

Just know her wanting to talk about the affair,after a very good evening, is normal.

And that she wants to talk about it,rather than rugsweep is a good sign.

I’m not being a jerk, truly, but I did giggle a bit at the comparison. Can’t remember which user on here that talks about the donut, but that was the first thing I thought of.

I think it’s great that she’s thinking about it and trying to figure it out, even if the comparison is a bit silly. I guess it does prove the whole affair down thing though.

[This message edited by landclark at 2:28 PM, April 24th (Saturday)]

Good for you, looking before you leap. It gave her the chance to follow up with a sincere apology instead of getting defensive. Would it be better if you got the apology even if you reacted negatively to her donut analogy? Absolutely. Many things would be better if you had a WS with the fortitude to handle criticism and conflict when they get it wrong. This is how she can develop that skill, though -- learning that she can attempt vulnerability without it crashing down around her ears.

Can’t remember which user on here that talks about the donut, but that was the first thing I thought of.

Chaos's WH had a picture of a donut on AP's boob, so AP was thenceforth known as Donut Whore. Because of a snack food comparison I once made, my BH briefly referred to OM as Cheez Balls.

I almost lost it, then bit my tongue when I wanted to tell her that it was no consolation to me for her blowing the OM. I looked before I leaped this time, paused, and told her "thank you for being honest."

That shows growth and was a very good response. Kudos on that moment.

T/J - I am the BS who's LTAP is known as the Donut ***** (not sure if I as a BS can actually say it in this forum) Thanks landclark - I too was reading this and thinking WTF is it about the donuts?!?! I am seriously smiling reading about you remembering it. BraveSirRobin thank you for providing the explanation. That's a photo burned into the brain for sure. Haven't eaten a donut since July 2017.

don't quote me exactly, she might have said Danish or something similar.

Now that I've had more time to think about what she said I realized I never asked her if there had been any other danishes/donuts before the only OM that I know about.

I'm afraid to ask, actually. But she's got me thinking. This is exactly why I generally don't want to talk about this shit. I want to look ahead not behind. But now I can't shake it -- I have to ask if there were any others.

I'm reluctant to talk about this because I may have to dodge some 2x4's.

No bashing please

It's this theme that I think you need to look at.

First, why would you dodge the advice? The 2 by 4s are meant to help you see a different way of thinking. Without the 2 by 4's I would never have gotten through this thing.

Second, that you see it as bashing rather than people being helpful. Sure, I think we all get unhelpful stuff, projections of other's situations. But, for the most part, just try it on. If it doesn't fit, discard it.

I do not understand your aversion to talking about this with your wife. I think she is trying to work though this. I personally think that what she said DOESN'T help you feel better, that's not unusual. But, what she is saying is that she was selfish. This is a correct and needed admission to make.

If you really want to save your marriage don't be afraid to talk this thing to death. Honestly, the more you hold her back from that the more time it's going to take her to heal. She needs to commiserate with you. And, sometimes she needs to be corrected on her thinking.

The other time you brought up the blow jobs, you did it in a way to shut her down. This time you didn't bring it up. When there is true progress, you will be able to express your pain around that not as a deflection of your own behavior but when it's appropriate. I personally think it might have been appropriate to say what you were FEELING. "The pain that some of the sexual details of what you did is enormous to me. This analogy you are making feels like a minimization of what actually happened."

Either you are past it or you aren't. Your posts all read like "ignore it and it will go away".

And, then when we try and reflect back for you ways you could do better you think it's a 2 by 4 or bashing.

It took me a long time to learn how to talk about my affair in both a very candid and honest way but with compassion towards my husband. But, once I did, I have never been afraid to bring it up. I have found the more I brought it up the less he felt a need to do that.

Now that the shoe is on the other foot, I need for him to bring it up so I know he is carrying the burden with me. That I am not alone in that task. The more you all talk about it and gain clarity the more empathy with each other you will build. The thing that you want to shut down is actually the keys to the other side.

I also think if you look up a vulnerability hangover you will find what she is doing to be very normal. I have noticed most BS do this. The best way I can explain it to you is that there is still a lot of deep hurt to be let out. When we have a good night or a good couple of days, I don't want him to get the impression I am over it. It's very uncomfortable because then it becomes rug sweeping. Rug sweeping is what I think you always sound like you want. But, what your wife is doing is more productive for the longer term.

If you truly want to save your marriage, bring it up, talk it to death. If she sees you are doing that she won't feel the need to do it as much and there will become more balance. And the more you talk with each other the better opportunity for empathy and creating a new marriage.

This wasn't bashing or a 2 by 4. Really just this is the path. I think it would help too if you continue to work on your wiring. You keep wanting to seem like you are good to go - you say things like you see the OM and were friendly with him. But, underneath it all there is still a lot of anger and resentment, otherwise you wouldn't keep feeling the urge to throw out the sexual stuff. Instead of throwing it out to shut her down, throw it out when it's appropriate, and relevant.

There is a poster here, that I wish he would have written what he did earlier because it opened my eyes and changed the whole way I approached R. I think the post got put in the quote area, I will see if I can track it down and link to it. It is a far better explanation than what I am giving you.

If you want to save your marriage, this is the way - open it all up, look at it all very closely, leave noone behind, talk, talk, talk, talk talk. You will never be sorry when you see where that takes you.

MyAndI,

She also asked if I wanted to talk about the OW.

"no, she is the last thing on my mind," I said.

This is true.

It's not your AP that you'd be talking about. It is about YOU turning the mirror on yourself to understand the wherefore and whys.

I'm not perfect, heck this past weekend my BW got upset at me for shutting her down on an issue (It was unintentional but all the same I stomped all over her feelings), but afterwards we both spoke and cleared the air. Unresolved shit will always come back to bite you in the behind.

You can ask your wife to dig into her past and whys, but you should also be doing the same, otherwise you both will stay stuck playing this pretend dance.

EDIT - and just after I sent my post I see HO did a much more in-depth response along the same lines.

[This message edited by MrCleanSlate at 1:26 PM, April 26th (Monday)]

Betrayed Husband here.

I wish my WW would bring up what she did more often. It would serve as proof that she’s not just (still) hoping it will disappear, go away, become a nonissue.

It is exhausting having to be the one to go to her and say, “I have a question” or “I need to tell you something.”

She thinks she’s made maximum effort if she comes to me once in a while and says “checking in.....you ok?”

No, I’m not fucking ok.

She’d doing better, but I would never begrudge her being the one to bring it up.

I could not find the exact quote I was looking for, but it started when bravesirrobin once posted this:

What everyone here is trying to explain is that this doesn't get solved by you figuring out how to get him up off the floor. You need to get down on the floor with him

Then a poster named holdingtogether, who is a BH married to Walkingoneggshelz added to that. I am summarizing here, but maybe someone will find it and post the link:

He said this was exactly right. That his wife wanted to get A's in Reconcilliation. That's something I deeply relate to. But, in the process, it was always her trying to fix him, trying to help him figure out how to heal. The shift is that BOTH of you are hurting, both of you need to heal, being down on the floor together and figuring it out together is the ground zero of R. When you are truly in it together there is a partnership there.

Be in it with her. Get down on the floor with her. The reason it feels like she can't let it rest is not only because she can't. It's because she wants to feel you in it with her. She is looking for you in all of it. You just want to have a good day, get a rest, etc. Become more active in this.

I apologize to HT if I butchered what he said, but it was a complete paradigm shift for me after reading it. Again, maybe someone smarter than me can find it and post it.

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/645550/upside-down/

Here's the link hikingout. Sixth post down.

Thanks, N. It should probably get pinned someplace. So worth the read.

I could be way off, MyAndI, but when I was in the stage of avoiding any affair talk -- mine or his -- it was because there were still things that I was hiding from him. Cracking the door open on his affair meant a risk that he'd start asking more pointed questions about mine. In fact, that was one of the things that made him suspicious. Back in the day, I was known for beating a dead horse, so my avoidance was highly out of character.

How did you react in the years between her affair and yours? Did you talk it to death, rugsweep, or something in between?

BSR,

In thse years between her A and mine I was working on R. I tried, and was somewhat successful for awhile to get past it. Hut I always felt she was not truly remorseful in her efforts to minimize her feeling about OM and that it was "just a three month trist." in the interest of R I just tried to accept what had happened.

BSR,

In thse years between her A and mine I was working on R. I tried, and was somewhat successful for awhile to get past it. Hut I always felt she was not truly remorseful in her efforts to minimize her feeling about OM and that it was "just a three month trist." in the interest of R I just tried to accept what had happened.

But see my next thread.

At least your WW refers to you as a fully loaded banana split. My WW probably thinks of me as nothing more than a creamsicle.