SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Husband was having an emotional affair with a woman he met in AA (he’s been sober for eight months now). I learned of it and demanded he cut off communication with her. And attend men’s meetings which he has done.

I just found this note in the notes folder on the laptop (I think he forget we share the folder

“There's so many things I want to say to you. For starters, I miss you. I miss hearing from you, about you, hearing your voice. I was having so much fun getting to know you, thinking about you, sharing moments with you. Ultimately, the micro-adjustments made over time unlocked and swung wide the gates of possibility. And it was like sunshine. And then, poof - gone. Now, most days I feel like I've been kicked in the stomach.

I fully accept that this heartache, this uncharted emotional territory, are my own to navigate and to make peace with. That doesn't mean it doesn't suck. My wish for you is a fullness in sobriety, success, kindness, friendship, love, laughter, and happiness. You deserve it all.

Lastly, if you get a call from an unknown NJ number, its probably MY NAME. She went into my phone and stole your contact info and has said she intends to call you and discuss "what went on between us and why." I don't like this at all or the fact that you should be bothered with it.”

He’s saying he never sent it and wrote it right after I told him to cut her off and now he realizes how stupid it all was. But I think he does miss her.

He didn’t send this. And I know it’s too common to fall for someone when you’re newly sober. But I also found out the day after he said he texted her a cut off of communication he called and texted her to connect and she didn’t respond.

He seems to have double downed on me. He’s more sexually attentive than I’ve seen in 15 years honestly. I can’t help but having a nagging feeling that it’s this way because she cut him off.

Also, I want to stop being a detective and need some sound advice on that. Someone describes the 180...what is that?

I attended my first al anon meeting this week. I’m not feeling all that great about his lying. This all feels like too much.

And I wonder if I should be done.

Addicts do addict things.

They always have and always will. Much like aggressive dogs that bite, you can try to train it out but it will always exist in the background and will come out with the right stimulus.

You can accept it as part of your life or remove the addict.

I’m sorry you find yourself here.

I am a recovering alcoholic and also attend AA. An alcoholic is like a tornado roaring through the lives of others. In my experience, AA is not a program to help you stop drinking, it’s a program to provide you a template for living. One that demands a life of honesty. From that, you are no longer that tornado and you find peace. Your husband is not sober, he’s just dry. The same could be said of his cheating partner.

Drunks lie, so do cheaters. It was surprising to me to discover how much they have in common. Oddly I’ve come to believe that the solution to both is similar.

If the other woman is married or has a partner, I’d suggest you tell that partner. You don’t have to inform your husband that you are doing so. A cheater, like an alcoholic, often constructs a fantasy of how they present to the world. We like to judge ourselves by our intentions while the world judges us by our actions. It’s not your job to help him maintain that fantasy.

That to my mind is part of what the 180, and for that matter al anon is about. Detaching from the problem, and living your own life with honesty and dignity. From that you may find peace.

Good luck.

I don’t know how I would even find her boyfriend to tell him. Or what I would actually say? Your gf and my husband spent months getting to know each other and he developed feelings for her and deleted text exchanges and gave her rides to the meetings? That will make me look insane, no?

You can always get a google number and contact her - to find out what went on.

Of course you can also attend that particular AA meeting to figure out who she is - and from there find her on facebook.

You can do a search of her cell # and get additional information as well.

I would definitely tell her spouse.

I would also not be surprised there was more to this story than he has so far told you.

He could be paying more attention to you in order to throw off any suspicions.

Ah, that good ol'e 13th step of AA.

My X met his AP at an AA meeting. She was the third EA. The first to turn into a PA.

My X was a seasoned veteran (28 years sober at the time). The AP was a newcomer.

For years, My X attended men only meetings. Then, a new Alano building was built. Right in our neighborhood. He started attending mixed group meetings. And, discovered he was quite the super sober star to the new ladies that would show up.

He became a big 13th stepper. It happens all the time in AA.

I wonder if your WS's AP is a female 13th stepper.

AA can be a life saver for people. And, for the vast majority, I am sure it is a place to be among other addicts, and learn to live life differently.

A positive place to be.

For others, it is a place to relish in your selfishness, and feed your ego kibble appetite.

I admit, I am pretty jaded about AA. But, I watched my X stay dry for all those years, but never really got sober.(he is still dry, and still the star of his meetings I hear)

Good for you for insisting your WS only attend men's meetings. I hope he can make the changes he needs to, and work the program, and can get and stay healthy and sober.

The meeting is an 11PM meeting my husbands sponsor chairs. I won’t be able to go incognito. And she has a boyfriend, not a husband. She has a few years sober, I think.

My husband insists nothing physical happened. Oddly I believe him.

He insists that he is super focused on me now because he realizes the EA was a symptom of how sick he is. And he wants me. Not her. And that he wants our family together.

There’s something about this whole thing I can’t shake off though. Don’t know what it is....

And for the 180....how does the detachment work when you live with the them? Example: he touched my leg in the car, says I love you, kissed me goodbye tonight...do I reciprocate?

Also, I’m going out of town for a week and a half and my brain is wild wondering if he’s going to see her? Should I track for the information gathering of 180 or leave it alone?

AA has been a lifesaver for me, but it’s also not exactly a hotbed of mental wellness either. I’ve been sober 14 years, and I went back to daily meetings for awhile starting the day of D-day because I didn’t want my ex’s affair send me back to drinking.

Well, I shared a ton at AA those first few weeks back, and cried ugly cries. And can I tell you how many creeps came up to me to hit on me and ask me out while I was in this completely vulnerable state? It was gross. I started going only to women’s meetings after I got my legs back under me regarding my separation and divorce and recovering from the shock of my ex’s bazillion lies over 24 years together.

There’s a reason that AA recommends no one get in a new relationship in early sobriety and that sponsors should be same sex. Your husband was not following AA’s suggestions very well if he got entangled in a relationship with another newly sober person. He’s continuing to make bad choices for himself. You need to protect yourself from him.

ETA I see you think she has a few years sober. The same still applies that your husband shouldn’t have gotten involved with her (and if he didn’t tell his sponsor about the EA and his sponsor didn’t say “knock that shit off”, then that is more of a problem as well), and shame on her for not nipping the whole thing off in the bud.

[This message edited by Pandora16 at 6:55 PM, February 21st (Friday)]

He won’t tell me what his sponsor says to him outside of that it’s typical in new sobriety.

Also, a google search of her email and phone number isn’t turning up much outside of the fact that she’s almost ten years younger than he is.

How can I track what he does while I’m away?

Or should I leave it alone?

You need open communication to trust him again.

He needs to come up with a solution to make you feel safe. It isn’t up to you to give him the answers.

Unfortunately some people in recovery do for bonds with others when going to certain meetings.

In AA most common saying is no new relationships for 12 months, same sex sponsors and same sex meetings.

Also AA is a program of rigorous honesty, if your truly working the program that includes yourself. It sounds like he traded his addiction for alcohol for NRE new relationship energy or ego kibbles. The EA is probably distracting him from real sobriety.

[This message edited by PricklePatch at 6:51 AM, February 23rd (Sunday)]

I am a big supporter of AA. It's ironic that my wife started an affair there, but the program is only as good as the participant's determination to enter sobriety. I like AA because like it has been mentioned before, expects brutal honesty, and you can apply its concept to most addictions. If they truly work the steps, it is one of the most effective programs still in use today.

He insists that he is super focused on me now because he realizes the EA was a symptom of how sick he is.

If he is sincere about this statement, then this should be a HUGE eye-opener for him. Swapping additions for self-soothing is so damn common it's almost cliche, so if he is able to see this clearly now, it may help him make better boundary decisions in the future. Yes, I may sound too opportunistic, and don't want to give him credit where it is not due, but self-realization is such an important step. Time is going to tell how serious he is about sobriety IN ALL ASPECTS of his life.

Also, I’m going out of town for a week and a half and my brain is wild wondering if he’s going to see her? Should I track for the information gathering of 180 or leave it alone?

No matter what, it is going to be difficult for you. The only way you would not be so anxious is if you didn't care....and that simply is not reality. But the more that you practice on emotionally detaching(the 180), the more it will help try to put your mind at rest. And to answer your question, I think the best thing that you can do is put the onus on him---"Husband, this week and a half that I am going to be away is going to be difficult on me. You have proven to me that I currently can not trust you, and I can't help but believe that you will not only reach out to her(or drink, if you believe that to be true), but you will attempt to hide this information from me. I only hope that you can come up with methods that will help ease my concerns."

Because, in truth, what can you really do? Hire a PI to follow him when you are gone? Not go on your trip due to lack of trust? That is no way for you to live, so don't. Make HIM responsible to help rebuild trust. And if he can't, that is none of your doing. You have to see that his ACTIONS match his words of sincerity.....and putting your concerns squarely at his feet is a good start.

I am a big supporter of AA. It's ironic that my wife started an affair there, but the program is only as good as the participant's determination to enter sobriety. I like AA because like it has been mentioned before, expects brutal honesty, and you can apply its concept to most addictions. If they truly work the steps, it is one of the most effective programs still in use today.

I feel exactly the same about the step program (my experience was with NA - narcotics anonymous - not AA - but the basic premise is identical). My nephew, I have little doubt, would either be dead or doing a life sentence by now if not for the program and without Alanon - I may also have been in the same position. I was at my literal wits end...

That being said the no new relationships requirement is a big deal...and I'm sure for single people in those programs, such as my nephew, it's damn hard not to find yourself attracted to someone who is on the same "right" path as you and have a lot of shitty things in common AND you are both working on fixing/changing those shitty things - that's damn attractive - and is an actual connection instead of one solely based on ego boosting - it has more depth in a way - and I get it - the shit is fucking hard to navigate (and no, that isn't an excuse - it's just a factual observation about how difficult addiction really is). My nephew dated in the middle of his first year a tiny bit and then stopped because he felt like it was hindering his progress. When he fell of the wagon briefly in year 2, he did so with a fellow NA member he was dating - their positive reinforcement turned to negative - and part of him getting back on the right path meant extricating her from his life...

But ultimately you can't do any of this for your WH - and you have two MAJOR life issues going on right now - alcohol and affairs. I would rely on the support of people at Alanon. But also know that just like Pandora16 - I was hit on at Alanon meetings - not really hit on in a gross way - more along the lines of people looking to cling to others who feel like they are drowning. It's a fairly easy connection to make - someone who is dealing with similar nightmares in their lives and who sees you, another Alanon attendee, as a "normal" person when their life has been a sea of madness. That being said you will find there are a LOT of people at those meetings whose marriages were in crisis and a lot of conversation about affairs and addiction. When I went I was dealing with my nephew so that stuff just sort of washed over me - funny thing was I considered going to alanon meetings due to my WH simply because people there can relate to the affair/disaster side of things.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 10:06 AM, February 23rd (Sunday)]

I worry also because he didn’t tell his sponsor this was going on, it happened in his home group that HIS SPONSOR STARTED, and my husband says he didn’t get a loud and clear message about gender separation.

Which is either BS or a problem with the way to literature is managed in the meeting. Which is an 11PM six days a week and full of newcomers.

His sponsors reaction seems to have been whelp that’s typical behavior in early sobriety. Not quite the kick in the pants my husband needs.

I want this to work.

But it won’t if he’s a dry drunk that’s using AA and the people there to feed his ego.

The past and present look v bad in terms of predicting the future. And I’m caught between wanting this to work and needing to protect myself.

He’s not punitive and we don’t have any money so I’m not sure what else he could do to me...but I make more money and he’s a dry drunk and I don’t want trashbox women around my kids if we do split.

I am so tired of thinking about this.

The last time I went out and drank I didn’t tell anyone I was going to. You know why? Because I knew it was wrong, and I didn’t want to hear anyone tell me so. Why do you think your husband didn’t mention anything to his sponsor?

Yeah, the no clear message about gender separation is bullshit..

They call this being a "dry drunk", common in recovery programs.

You ditch the drug and find another one that looks different, everyone thinks you are "changed' because you are not drinking, but you are still the same lying, schmoozing, manipulative jerk that you were. You can be sober for years and relapse into another type of behavior, it's all the same shit.

AA is not a program to help you stop drinking, it’s a program to provide you a template for living.

The above quote is really true, I've spent many, many, hours in AA meetings, supporting my alcoholic spouse in her first 4 years of sobriety, and I learned a bit in Al-Anon online as well.

It was a woman in Al-Anon, online meeting, who put my spouses ongoing behaviors in proper context for me 2 years after she stopped drinking, as well as my reactions to it, she was able to point out something I could not see because I was to close to the problem, but it was obvious to a detached outsider.

You might find Al-Anon helpful, try the online version as well, you will likely find both in person and virtual meetings helpful.

I must have the wrong books though.

Ah, that good ol'e 13th step of AA.

Mine only have 12 steps...I gotta get me one with that 13th step!

He’s been open to all the changes and access I’ve asked for. Still being the most attentive sexually and physically he’s ever been (and we haven’t had sex yet...last time was in June when he relapsed).

I feel like an idiot but I’m optimistic.

Hi, Borg. I am so sorry you have been pushed into this situation, but I’m glad you found us.

(Love your name, BTW!) The 180 “directions” can be found in the Healing Library. There is a link in the upper left hand corner to the Library. Click on that link and you then will see an “Articles” link near the top of the page under “Frequently Asked Questions.” That will answer your questions about the 180.

How you respond to his affections is up to you. When my WW tells me she loves me, I say “thank you”, or “ok”. That has ticked her off so much she now refuses to tell me she loves me. Is that really love? Sorry – I digress. If you don’t mind his kissing, touching, or whatever, then ok. If you do mind, tell him and tell him why. Be open, honest, and transparent about that. It’s what he needs to be for you, so model what you expect. Again, only you can decide what is acceptable to you, and that’s ok. Everybody is different.

Continue posting and keep us up to date. Just remember that here, you are not alone.

I just pulled the phone records. It looks like they spoke more regularly than he let on.

His response “ All I can say is I’m sorry I betrayed your trust. I know how it looks and I’m sorry.”

Also this just in — he says the night I woke up and he was still out at almost 2:30AM he talked to her “ Talked about needing to stop communicating because it was not healthy. For anyone.”

He told me that night he got a nail in his tire and that’s why he was out so late. But the phone calls show his phone was in her town, not anywhere else when I called to see where he was that night.

He maintains nothing physical happened.

What to do? I’m out of the country on business and it’s 3AM and I am wide awake and so upset...again.