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Hi everyone, can you please tell me the difference between love bombing and remorse? I think WH is in actual remorse, he is saying the right things and it feels like he is changing inside himself. He actually feels like a different person, not just his actions. Still I don't trust myself as much as I used to, and I have moments when I doubt it's real. He cannot use any of "our" loving gestures because he thew them all away on prostitutes for cheap validation. He is coming up with new ways, but stops if I tell him something upsets me.

The sad truth is you never truly know if it's love bombing vs. remorse. Consistency over time + openness is one formula to test whether or not it's legitimate remorse. I was with my narcissist for 12 years and I got to see what I believed to be genuine remorse following some pretty heinous acts (prior to me actually catching the recent, final instance of infidelity). Turns out it was just a facade all those times, because she never actually changed. She was a professional placater and I was duped time and again.

Where I went wrong in my assessment over the years was forgetting the past. I got too comfortable in those periods where everything seemed to be going okay. Then her ugly nature would reveal itself once again, and the cycle would repeat. There was no consistency. And during these bad times, her openness would drop and she'd clam up, hide things, engage in very surreptitious behavior like hiding her phone activity.

Genuine remorse tends to manifest in the offender as a deep desire to "make things right no matter what". Plus, you've got to determine what you yourself need in order to heal and ensure that he's providing that to you. If there continues to be that doubt, that disparity between what you need and what he can do to help heal you, then it doesn't really matter if it's love bombing or genuine remorse. The end result is the same: a lack of trust, an open wound, and unhappiness in perpetuity.

Love bombing is a manipulation tool used to control, whereas hysterical bonding is often a byproduct of remorse.

Remorse is a tricky thing, all you can do is be patient and observe consistent behavior over time.

Abandoned

Thank you. I am sorry you have been through what you have. I hope you are in a good place now.

I am on high alert, so that combined with reading about so many that went through false R, then add in the horrible things he did, and I get nervous. I am not in R with him, I am holding it until I have faith he will keep the work up.

He is willing to do anything I ask of him, without hesitation. It took him months to get here. I don't really think he is faking it, if he was he would have started much sooner. I have not been gentle or kind for months, and he tells me he only started to come out of the insanity because I dragged him out. When I first found out he went into full defensive mode, and I saw how deluded he was. I started forcing him to see it. (he was seeing call girls and convinced himself they cared about him, and that his payments were just helping out people in need) we were friends before we got together, and I could not stand that he was accepting that. I ripped into him for weeks (and longer). I was trying to get the truth (he TTed me for months), and make him see the shark frenzy he had put himself in, as I would have for a friend. (this was not codependent rescue) He says he was trying to understand what my perspective on what he did was, even though he was totally caught up in his bull justifications.

He has had a slow climb out of his own ass, but I have consistently seen improvement. He just recently gave me a fully detailed timeline. This is a massive step for him. He had to look at everything he did to write it, and it is full of horror and utter idiocy. He is dealing with the fall out, blames himself for everything, and tells me all the time, even if I don't stay, he will do whatever it takes to help me feel even a tiny bit better. He has offered to take a poly, freely, given me access to all accounts, is telling me when he is afraid, or upset. The difference is night and day. He was super private (secretive), our entire marriage. It feels like he is more comfortable in his own skin, it's strange. I don't trust it yet, and I am going to be watching for him closing off, or any dishonesty for the rest of our lives, if I stay. He knows I am not giving him another chance, if I even give him this one.

He is reading about affairs, SA, and anything that will help him figure out why he did any of it. He is in IC, recently changed therapists (his last one was a quack and a half), and looks like he is seeking answers. That is another change. He has realized he was being a self centered sexist asshole, that was dressing it up in "helping them" so he wouldn't feel like the 50 year old creep he was being. If I wasn't seeing changes, I would would not even have a toe in the door.

[This message edited by MaryannFaithful at 4:32 AM, September 26th (Thursday)]

Genuine remorse has actions that you can see. The Cheater is doing everything possible to make amends. Some examples are giving passwords to all social media, complete transparency with phone or devices, answering all questions, doing anything to help the BS heal.

Love bombing is words or actions that are focused on making the Betrayed spouse feel like they are loved and that the AP meant nothing. However it is often not followed up by actions that help make amends. Example is the CS brings home flowers or starts saying all the right things but refuses to adhere to boundaries or attend counseling. .

Genuine remorse has actions that you can see.

This... ^^^

Actions. Stop listening to the words, watch what they do. Telling you the truth about things unprompted (including things that would be/are difficult to hear), getting into IC themselves, becoming more open and loving. Love bombing, to me, is using words to avoid actual "love". It's kind of similar to the "say anything" mentality of your typical AP, just say anything to get them to have sex with you. Well, love bombing is "say anything to get them to stay with you" without, of course, actually DOING anything to get them to stay with you.

This sounds like it could be true remorse. To me, love bombing is surface stuff. Giving lots of compliments. Doing more around the house and with the kids. Flowers and other gifts. All normal stuff that a real partner would do anyway.

Remorse is admitting what you've done, taking full responsibility for your actions and how they have affected others, and doing real work to change yourself because you realize how fucked up you are.

Remorse is admitting what you've done, taking full responsibility for your actions and how they have affected others, and doing real work to change yourself because you realize how fucked up you are.

My STBX showed what I thought was remorse as well. He admitted fault, knew that has actions caused my trauma and distress. This was when we first separated. I took him back and slowly things went back to the way they used to. His actions told me he was not remorseful and most likely was telling me what I wanted to hear.

I agree with the others look at his actions. Is he in IC working on himself? Is he asking how you are and how he can help you? does he let you bring up the A without getting upset about it? Is he reading books on infidelity?

My STBX did none of these things and now we are headed for D.

OK, you guys are making me feel better about what he is doing right now. I am am still nervous he will back slide at some point, but for now I am going to stop telling him I fear it's fake. I think that could mess with his efforts to grow.

The reason I was worried is that he is doing a bit of what could be classic love bombing. He has been getting me flowers, after I told him he could. We had a big discussion beforehand because he gave some to one of them. I had to find out how him giving them to me was different. Everything else he did for them is off limits, including my pet name. Yep he called two of them his term of endearment for me. He was writing me notes, but in the full disclosure, I found out he gave one of them a written note, so that stopped.(he says he forgot it until he wrote out everything, it was almost a year ago and in the middle of some manic "dating") He just came up with the idea of leaving me bits of magnetic poetry, which has no bad association.

He only started doing the love stuff after I told him I was ready for it. He is trying to find new ways to show me, which isn't easy, he was super sweet and romantic for most of our relationship. Once he went sexist bastard, he just recycled all our love gestures into easy ways to get useless validation from prostitutes, striping away all the value. All the work on himself started before.

Thanks everyone! I will be watching, but I will tone down the fear he is faking it, a bit.

Love bombing is superficial. Love bombing is damage control rather than damage healing.

Love bombing is like saying, "Look at me! See? I'm being good! I'm cleaning the house! I'm fixing meals! Doesn't this prove how much I love you?" instead of really digging deep and helping their spouse heal from the trauma.

Love bombing is like saying, "Look at me! See? I'm being good! I'm cleaning the house! I'm fixing meals! Doesn't this prove how much I love you?" instead of really digging deep and helping their spouse heal from the trauma.

This. For realz.

i see Love bombing taking two forms:

First: projecting the "good guy" image, with little/no regard for the recipient. It's doing things to make them feel good about themselves. Example: you hate lilies and told you WS this a million times. For a surprise, he brings you a bouquet of lilies. No thought about what YOU would like - only thinking about how bringing flowers makes HIM look good. It's basically the KISA behaviors (that sadly, are often part of the behavior toward an AP).

Second: As a way of avoiding doing any emotional work beneath the surface. This is saying (and sometimes even doing) the "right" things, but still being a coward when it comes to the "important" things. Example: he gives you the passwords, etc to his electronics, but will NEVER ever, no matter what instigate a discussion of the A or his own feelings. Or he won't provide a detailed timeline.

What you are describing sounds pretty good to me. But if he was off the rails with a bunch of prostitutes, I would for sure be exploring the SA issues.

ETA: hysterical bonding has nothing to do with remorse. There's tons of articles about it online.

Also - is he in IC? If it's not an option, I'd see if there are SA meetings in your area (and SANON or COSA for you - there are even phone/online meetings for the partners, I dunno about the SA). IMHO, even if a WS isn't "full blown" SA, these opportunities can still be beneficial.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 3:15 PM, September 26th, 2019 (Thursday)]

My STBX showed what I thought was remorse as well. He admitted fault, knew that has actions caused my trauma and distress

Words, but no actions. Seems you missed the last part about the CP doing actual work.

There needs to be consistent action over time.

MY WH has a master's degree in "love bombing". That's how we stayed together so long.

In the end, it's just a smoke screen because he never was proactive in doing the real work.

Sometimes "love bombing" is superficial, and sometimes it's the manifestation of actual remorse.

It's the other stuff that goes with it that's necessary to see what's really going on. A major factor is consistency, time, and your gut.

Accept and appreciate the efforts, they are tangible ways for a WS to DO something. It's okay to receive tangible or spoken tidbits of affection. But the "Be wise as serpents but gentle as doves" is an adage to live by.

Words, but no actions. Seems you missed the last part about the CP doing actual work.

There needs to be consistent action over time.

That's why we are headed for D. There was no consistent action over time. But let him tell it he thinks he did all he could

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 10:51 AM, October 2nd (Wednesday)]