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WS and I have been trying to work through his time line for his affairs and although he admits that he used multiple justifications to himself, ‘we weren’t happy’ ‘I love you but I’m not in love with you’.

He claims never to have had conversations with his multiple OW which would reflect badly on me or our marriage. This is something I highly doubt, how else do you convince the AP that it’s ok to have an affair?

So my question is, is he lying or has anyone else been in this situation?

Thanks for any feed back

I don’t think you need to convince an AP to have an affair. Anybody who has a moral compass, integrity would not engage in an affair.

Personally I don’t think it’s important if there are any conversations that reflect badly on BS or the marriage for an affair to start. More importantly your WS chose to have an affair when he is married to you and the AP chose to be in the affair when she knows that he is married.

My WH’s AP was his COW who has met me and my son and yet she still chose to spread her legs open for my WH. She said in her reply to my message about the number of times she and WH have argued about the people they were hurting (she didn’t specify who said that) but yet they still chose to continue the affair until I found out.

This topic has come up before, and it is not uncommon for both the WS and AP to confirm that nothing bad was said. However, talk is cheap; it's actions that really say something. And when an AP witnesses a WS pursuing them or responding to advances, there is an assumption that the WS is not happy, does not love or value their spouse, and is willing to throw it all away to be with this AP. Their actions and risk send messages that provide the necessary ego kibbles to the AP.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 5:11 AM, November 22nd (Sunday)]

The cheater will say or do whatever is necessary to have the affair.

My H told the OW he wasn’t in love with me anymore and we were D. Complete lies. But she refused to go out with him if he was a married guy. So he told her whatever he needed to get her to go out with him.

I saw many emails between them. I never saw one where he said anything negative or nasty about me. But if he’s planning to kick me to the curb then I’m certain he’s not singing my praises to her.

My H did blame me for his unhappiness during his mid life crisis affair. So I heard everything from him about why he no longer loved me — you know the ILYBNILWY speech. He was angry and resentful towards me.

So I assume he said negative things about me. It stands to reason. But I never asked him what he said because he would certainly lie about that as he was so desperate to reconcile. But like I said I saw emails and there was nothing in them about me. I’m just not that stupid.

In the case of prostitutes or sex workers the cheater doesn’t need to say or do anything — that is transactional and they don’t need to tell those lies

But I believe cheaters will say or do whatever they need to start the affair.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 5:50 AM, November 22nd (Sunday)]

Duplicate post

[This message edited by The1stWife at 5:49 AM, November 22nd (Sunday)]

The cheater will say or do whatever is necessary to have the affair.

I think this is probably the most universal right answer that would apply to the broadest group of WS's. That does NOT mean that your H said bad things about you/your marriage, it means that he may not have because he didn't have to. You have to think about this as an optimization problem, how do you get what you want without giving up too much. And once you get a "yes" (as in, yes, I'll have sex with you) the first rule of sales comes in, "stop talking".

In my case, I had the lovely "privilege" of reading through 1000's of TXTs between my W and the AP. He would rarely say anything about his W, and my W would rarely say anything about me. And what was said, well, was pure "keep the fantasy alive" stuff. He would talk about their dead bedroom and they're roommates, she would talk about how I never "got her" like he does.

I'm certain that if neither of them felt it was required to keep the A going, they wouldn't have said it. I'm further pretty certain that if my W had required more denigration of his wife, he would have happily provided it. Just words, they aren't worth more than the air you used to make them, and they were so far into na-na land anyway with the "love story", what would a little more "fantasy" matter.

The best analogy I can give, it's like writing a novel about a bad marriage, you're just making up the details from other things you've heard. It has no basis in reality, it's a fiction novel, written on the fly to get the reaction you want from the AP. The idea that people put such value in that fiction boggles my mind, but, well, that's a discussion for another day.

This is something I highly doubt, how else do you convince the AP that it’s ok to have an affair?

Some of them are just really terrible people who don’t need to convinced. They just want what they want and don’t care who gets trampled on in the process.

My WH didn’t always talk bad about me as far as I can tell. It was here and there or when we were fighting. I have access to his secret Facebook and there was no hardcore bashing going on there. I did see two instances where he told others I was not appreciating him and such, but again it wasn’t ongoing.

I’ve read a lot of pro-adultery forums and oddly bashing the spouse is off the table for a lot of people. I guess it helps them feel better about what they’re doing!?

So it’s possible he didn’t speak badly of you. Possible the AP needed zero convincing at all. However, you know him best.

Thanks all for the replies!

The confusion I am currently having stems from a combination of things.

In the early days post dday when we would fight about the affairs my WH would spit his justifications at me as a defence of his actions. When those things included words such as ‘you are boring’ and ‘we never do anything’ and then I am told how the OW were exciting and fun it sticks in your head and I imagine him telling them the same thing in reverse.

Additionally I have screen shot evidence of him belittling me to his online OW as well as some of his supposed ‘friends’.

It therefore seems strange to me that this behaviour would not occur during his IRL affairs.

I agree that the OW were definitely terrible people with no morals as they all knew of my existence, and one was even married herself. But can the fact that an attached WS gives you some attention really be enough to partake in an affair and convince you to drop your pants for them?

WS and I are trying to work on our marriage and have started with an assessment of the time line as WS needs to OWN his behaviour. I just don’t think he can do that if he doesn’t admit everything he has done.

WS and I are trying to work on our marriage and have started with an assessment of the time line as WS needs to OWN his behaviour. I just don’t think he can do that if he doesn’t admit everything he has done.

I agree. Have you considered a poly? I have to say, if you have screenshots of negative comments, then I would assume he is lying. What work is he doing? What changes has he made for you to consider him R material? Hopefully he has dropped all of that defensiveness you spoke of because there is no place for that bullsh$t.

I’m confused. If you have screenshots of him saying I kind things about you, what kind of information are you missing ? I think that says it all. Black and white proof is in your Hands in my opinion.

What other info do you need? Even if he says he did not say negative things or bash you to the OW, you have proof he did.

My H says he did not bash me to the OW. I saw nothing in the emails between them. Do I believe it? Not for a minute. He certainly was not telling the OW I was a wonderful wife but he’s Divorcing me.

I know he said negative things. I just don’t have proof i can use. But I’m not stupid either.

I think in the beginning they set the stage. My husband told me that he and his AP shared their sob stories with each other just enough to let the other know the "door was open" and the opportunity was there. Once that was established, the affair begins.

Once they were well into it, the discussions about me and our marriage (on his part) stopped. As far as he was concerned talks about our marriage were off limits and none of her business. (Compartmentalizing and not wanting his two worlds to cross over) She HATED that. She used to dig for information that he wouldn't share with her and it caused them to fight.

So maybe your husband told her shit in the beginning to set the stage, but maybe that was enough and he never spoke badly of you again.

OIN- Yes a poly is very much on the cards, but with the current COVID situation it is going to take a little while.

1st - It’s not that I am looking for information as much as a confession of the truth from my WS. As I said earlier in the thread he can’t heal from something he won’t admit to and if he won’t tell me the whole truth then he is still wayward and not safe for me.

ET - WS won’t admit to talking rubbish with the PA women at all, even though I have proof of that type of behaviour with online OW and his former pathetic friends.

Once again thanks for all the input, it gives me more to consider.