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Mind Struggling. Need thoughts from m/f

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KHBeo posted 11/19/2020 12:37 PM

Sorry this might be a little long.

Little back ground.
Me, an Apple Engineer.
Her, works at a large large firm.

A few years back working hard on my career to earn more money to provide a better life for the family. I helped around the house with cleaning, laundry, cooking, did the yard work and home repairs. Like I felt any normal husband should do. But, the bedroom had died off extremely. We are talking down to maybe 1 or 2 times every 6 months.

I did approach her. Was not confronting, just a normal conversation to find out what changed. She told me she was not comfortable with her weight gain and she just was not happy with her body. I am EHL.

She started a weight lost program and started losing and looking very good and I told her she was looking great and doing wonderful.

Flash forward about 6 months and -50 pounds later. Still a DB and getting worse.

She starts talking about this guy at work a lot. This went on for a month or 2, and it is work right? Then there was another guy.

Side not - Now, I am starting to feel like I am begging for sex and always being turned away.

Like this first guy there were a lot of personal details about the guy. I blew it off as work related and office chat. But, this went on for months and month with more little details about this guy.

Now, I am a details kind of person with a photographic memory. I remember the smallest details in the smallest spoken word, tones, peoples patterns. I call it a curse. Maybe, this comes from my Military background.

I never get personal with women at work. I keep the relationship always professional. I never talk about women from my work with the wife. Even, after being hit on all the time. I just keep it professional. You know, I am married and my D belongs to her only now.

One night I woke with my heart racing from a bad dream of her banging and sucking off some dude. Never has happened and I am not the jealous type at all. But, the gut finally woke up to what was happening.

Being the Engineer I am, I start poking around. Just to try and calm the gut. Worst thing I could have done, I know. Her patterns were way off. Lunches where she said she just sat at her desk, wrong. I knew her locations. I followed her patterns for a few months. Check phone logs and text on her phone. Nothing with the text. She is smart and I think she understood I could see these, if I looked. I was not about to install anything on her phone.

During this time, a girl she was friends with at her office stopped speaking with my wife. Dropped all contact. Religious woman.

Put these things together now.

Things with the above guy dropped off. She stopped talking about him and it moved to a new lawyer at the office.

I am focused on my career and making sure my daughter had a wonderful childhood. I was raised in a broken family and was not going to put my daughter through this. I played the good husband and trust her, even though the gut told me something different.

I had never attended one of her firm Christmas parties, but that year I did.

She was down 80 pounds and looked amazing. Like I remembered her when we met. 5'11" about 135 pounds. Stunning woman.

We walking in to the senior partners house, where the Christmas party was being held and she was looking around. I thought nothing really, until it was like, "oh, there is *****". She told be she would be back and for me to get a drink. She went right over to ***** and there I was standing holding my D in my hand.

I get a drink and just standing there, when this guy walks up to me. He is the 2nd guy in the story. He is pretty shit faced and introduces himself. Short, heavy set guy and really not in her league.

After he realizes I am her husband he gets a little squirrelly. He looks me right in the eyes and tells me I have a really good women. Personally, no other man should know my wife that well to tell me she is a good woman. But, she should not have know, as many details about this guy and his life either. Blood pressure went sky high.

I set my drink down and headed towards the door. This whole time she is over with new lawyer just chatting away, till she notices me leaving. I really could not say much at all, other than I was leaving. I really don't remember much of the drive home, other than a few words were said and I stopped the car and told her to get out. Of course I did not let her get out. It was more of a point to let her know I was tired of the shit. She did try to have sex with me that night(shocker to me) I just told her no thank you.

Side note - I did confront her harshly on the drive home. I ask point blank, if she had cheated on me. Her quote "I would never do anything to lose my house." At the time, that did not sink in.

Flash forward a few months. Her conversations about the new lawyer went from how wonderful he was to what an asshole he was. Then her weight started coming back on.

I started reading about emotional cheating. And even if she did not F these guys, she sure as hell was cheating. That weight lost was not for me to find her more attractive.

To the women here - Is it normal for a women to know all details about a co-workers (not in the same department) life?
Is it normal to go out to lunch with a male co-worker, just the 2 of you? One of her slips is why I ask this.

To the men here - Thoughts please.

I have done a lot to keep my daughter life normal. There is no fighting or harsh words spoken. Is the marriage normal by any means? No. There is no affection at all between us. My mind knows something happened. I do hung my daughter everyday and always tell her how much I love her and I am proud of her.

I have gone to a therapist to try and get over the anger. But, little things she did behind my back still come out and she knows it after she has spoken.

My going crazy.

Rideitout posted 11/19/2020 12:48 PM

To the men here - Thoughts please.

Sounds bad to me, all the warning signs. And, if she was cheating, prepare yourself for it to be physical; there's a saying "If they were alone, they had sex" and, sadly, it's true more often than not.

IDK what to tell you beyond get your ducks in a row. Is Apple going full time WFH? If so, get out of Cupertino; I'm sure your cost of living is insane now, and that will help a lot to giving you a path forward without her.

JanaGreen posted 11/19/2020 12:52 PM

To the women here - Is it normal for a women to know all details about a co-workers (not in the same department) life?

I would say no. I know a lot about my two "neighbors" but that's because we chat a lot when we work late. Other departments? No, not really. I'm pretty introverted though so that may vary for an extrovert.


Is it normal to go out to lunch with a male co-worker, just the 2 of you?

I've had working lunches with my boss one-on-one because it's easier for him to focus on what we are doing out of thr office and away from distractions, but I have honestly never gone to lunch one-on-one with a male coworker that I can recall. If it's a situation like traveling together or something, of course, but to my mind just grabbing lunch together solo with a man feels too datey.

tushnurse posted 11/19/2020 13:07 PM

Lot of red flags, and of course most of us here would say an EA is defined as spending time with someone other than your spouse that should be spent with spouse, this includes discussing personal private matters with that person.

I have a job that requires travel often with a male cohort, one person is the clinician, the other is the numbers person, so I would often travel with men that I work with in my office. I am quite a bit older than most of them, and never really would have considered anything in any sexual way with these men, and I doubt they felt that way toward me. It was more like a big sister role.

That said I knew things about these men that their friends may not just from travelling together. Flights, long car rides, staying in hotels, always on separate floors, company rule. But on a 4 day work trip spending an enormous amount of time together. So know what's up with kids, and pets, and home life. I friended most of their spouses too.

That said even in this situation there was nothing sexual going on. There was never any inappropriate behaviors.

You have a spouse with one foot out the door it seems. Time to see an attorney, and learn what your rights and obligations are, as well as hers. Figure out what your boundaries are, and start preparing to implement them, and lastly go get STD testing done, and figure out what you are going to do.

hikingout posted 11/19/2020 13:25 PM

To the women here - Is it normal for a women to know all details about a co-workers (not in the same department) life?
Is it normal to go out to lunch with a male co-worker, just the 2 of you? One of her slips is why I ask this.

I don't think so.

I work in a small company, half of which are males. I know their spouses names, their kids names, I could probably tell you where a couple of them went on vacation this year. Most of what I am saying is available information in a staff meeting. During round robin sometimes one will say "and on a personal note, I will be out next week we are going to..."

I have never thought about my male co-workers enough to relay any of this to my husband. If we have talked about my coworkers, it's more relative to something we are already discussing. Like, one time my H wanted a guitar, and I work with a guitar guy. I told him he should call him, I think he had one up for sale. H knows all my coworkers too, which is impossible in a larger company.

HOWEVER - when I was having an affair, I could have told you a lot more about the AP's life. I wouldn't have though. What you are describing is suspicious, but the only thing I can say in counter is - my husband didn't even know this other man existed. I would never have brought him up or shared anything about him. So, she isn't being secretive which is a better sign than not.

Dramatic weight loss can be part of affairs too though. And lying about what she is doing at lunch is a problem itself, even if it's unrelated.

I would say trust your gut, and I think you know there is more to know to the story.

oldtruck posted 11/19/2020 14:12 PM

cut off sex
big weight loss
polygraph test time

Darkness Falls posted 11/19/2020 14:39 PM

That weight lost was not for me to find her more attractive.

Ok, but if she had been 80 pounds overweight, maybe it was for HER to find herself more attractive. I mean, I personally donít feel as attractive at even 10-15 pounds overweight (although Iím 6 inches shorter than your wife, so.)

That being said, you describe a lot of cheating red flags. I just donít happen to ever see weight loss as one of them if the possible WS is significantly overweight/obese.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 2:40 PM, November 19th (Thursday)]

IronStitches posted 11/19/2020 15:01 PM

KHBeo - here is my perspective as someone who's had a lot of chats with lots of male co-workers - most not of my own doing. I'm on introvert but I have an empathic way about me people are drawn to.

In my large company, I have the busiest desk not only because I have to deal with vendors and all facets of our satellite office but because there is a giant glowing sign above my head that says "free therapy" - apparently. I work in a male dominant industry and had all sorts of guys coming to shoot the breeze at my desk. I was told of a lot of things and some I now never made it to gf/ wife [true feelings about an upcoming trip, how close to cheating or leaving the relationship, etc]. I would come home and share anything interesting from these stories or bounce them off my SO for his opinion/thoughts. Most of the time I'm talked at...so I had lots of stories to share. (like the building engineer who loaned Kurt Cobain his first guitar and still has it - certified and insured). With my SO, I was always open about going anywhere, even with female co-workers. Drop a text "going to lunch", "going to look a new office space with X", "so and so needs to blow off steam, going for a walk". I've gone on many lunches with a single male co-worker/team member, whom everyone saw his interest in me before I did. Not until he told me on his last day was it confirmed. I had considered him a friend - had been apartment hunting with him, covered each other's back at work, etc. I was just one of the guys. I'm very clear about my relationship status and that never waivers. I had always let my SO know when we were going to lunch, where, what I had and what I had learned. I am definitely an over communicator. But that's me.

If your wife changes and she did -- your instincts are right. The weight loss is huge. The change in attitude towards someone and the weight gain is a huge sign. I never lost weight for anyone but me. I've only ever cared about my appearance or taken additional pains over it when I was single and definitely when I was interested in someone.

I would second the idea to steel yourself that it was a full blown PA.

Sounds like she's not anywhere near ready to come to grips with her crap. I'm really sorry. I appreciate how aware you are of how you're handling your daughter. Like you, she didn't deserve this nonsense.

survrus posted 11/19/2020 15:35 PM

KHB,

The reason your WW knew so much about OM is that OM told her about himself.

Generally from what I've witnessed in life and heard on this site and others OM tell lies about themselves to get into womens pants.

One type of lie is how much the OM has suffered or overcome in life to get sympathy from a woman. The classic "my wife doesn't understand me. This is sometimes enhanced with statements about how your WW is the only person who helped him with his problems.

Another type of lie is bragging about themselves how they care for a sick relative, give money to a needy person depriving themselves.

It's often a shock when the WW finds out that the OM is a self-centered manipulator and hence your WWs feeling that he is an asshole.

A third type of lie is when the OM makes the WW feel special perhaps the only one he has ever loved so intensely, soul mates even.

There are more types and combinations of the above, but you can see how even ugly fat men can get beautiful women to see them as suitable.

It can be really unbelievable when independently minded liberated women fall for these con men, but I've seen it so many times. It's like they are drug dealers, which in a way they are.

Get yourself tested for STDs if you have one you know where it came from.

KHBeo posted 11/19/2020 16:08 PM

Yes, working from home like many us out here.

Sorry for some missed words. This the first time I have spilled this all out anywhere.

Therapist was really not helping me truly find the answers I was looking for. It always felt they did not hear me or try to help me understand.

I am glad I found a place, where I can get an option from m/f's. Because, things in my head are swirling trying to make sense of it all to come to grip with it.

Part of the brain tells you there is no way this could happen, but then the other parts sees it all and will not let you find any peace.

Eats at you bad.

As a male, I know how most operate just to get a little action. I was single once, but I would never ever hit on a married woman period.

Sorry for the book and I did keep it short. Thank you all for the replies.

36yearsgone posted 11/19/2020 16:39 PM

I'll offer a male point of view.

When my wife decided she wanted to go back to work, she would come home and talk about some asshole she worked with. Told me he was rude, crude, and basically a POS.

My wife is a very attractive woman. but during that time she decided she suddenly wanted to lose a few pounds. She was already stunning and in pretty good shape, so I couldn't understand the new focus. She was spending tons of money on a new wardrobe; wearing clothing styles that made her look younger and incredibly inviting.

She spent lots of time sunbathing by our pool, texting, speaking on the phone at all hours of the day and night.

She began talking very highly about the POS *%&^(* she worked with. It seemed odd that she went from looking at him as a POS, to praising him.

She would sneak out in the middle of the night, and claim later it was to see a client.

To make a long story short, she was cheating. All the signs were there. I think all the signs are there with your wife, as well.

So, yeah, she probably cheating. Here behavior falls in line with those who cheat. Her comment about never doing anything to lose her house...is disturbing. Time for a polygraph. And if she really is working in a law office, be very careful in all you do.

JanaGreen posted 11/19/2020 16:43 PM

Her comment about never doing anything to lose her house...is disturbing.

Right????

Talk about priorities.

IronStitches posted 11/19/2020 16:52 PM

I third the remark about not wanting to lose the house. She said this during a moment when you were clearly hurt and expressing your worry. She told you exactly what's important to her and what wasn't.

Also, too many therapists suck. Sorry if there are any on here, but they don't make money when you get well. I'm just sayin'. Keep looking for the right one, it takes time, like anything else.

GoldenR posted 11/19/2020 17:08 PM

I know you want it to just have been am EA. Unfortunately, cheating adults that have physical access to each other...they have sex.

Buy a couple VARs. You'll have your answer very quickly.

Jameson1977 posted 11/19/2020 17:34 PM

Hi KHBeo, welcome.

In my case, yes, my wife knew a lot about the personal lives of some of the men she worked with. She would have lunches with the solo, and yes, she had a PA and EA with two of them.

The weight loss is a red flag, especially since your sex life dried up. Her initiating sex that night is also a red flag. Post dday, my wife admitted that she would use sex to get me off the scent so to speak. She also admitted to gaslighting me prior to and after dday. If she was in an A, there was likely a breakdown with the AP, hence why he wasnít so great anymore and the weight starts to come back on.

Iíll relate an instance that happened to me prior to dday.

My WW and coworkers arranged a b-day party for a male coworker (EA partner). She spent more time planning this party than she spent on anything to do with the family. She never came out an said ďyou arenít invitedĒ, but Iím not oblivious, I could tell I wasnít welcome.

The night of the party, she got all dolled up, and headed out. I was home with my boy. I coughs some pics on Facebook of her and her coworker at this party and noticed a long time, male friend of my WW there. I was like WTF, why is he there, he doesnít know anyone there other than my WW.

She got home drunk at about 1:00AM. I was annoyed that this guy was there when it was clear to me she didnít want me there. So, I snooped her phone and saw she was basically begging this guy to come out. The last text to him was ďwell, I guess Iím not getting laid tonightĒ. This was 2:30AM, and I couldnít sleep. So, I waited until morning and confronted her. She played it off as ďoh, weíre joking around, itís an inside jokeĒ, blah, blah. She then proceeded to try to sleep with me. Looking back, what an idiot I was!!

Anyway, dday comes (2015), I find out about a ONS prior to marriage, the PA with one of the guys at this party (another coworker) and a long term crush on the long time male friend. I bring up this party. She blows it off, nothing happened. Okay, maybe nothing happened, but you had your PA partner, EA partner and male friend youíre crushing hard on, all at this party. I said to her, you must have loved it, all these guys that you are carrying on Aís with all in the same place.

Anyway, I digress. My point is, where there is smoke, there is usually fire. Donít discount the possibility of this being physical and the other man getting tired of her and dumping her, hence, why heís such an asshole now.

My WW didnít have a lot of free time and didnít give me much to be suspicious about.

When I look at each instance in isolation, I was able to justify and convince myself there was nothing going on, prior to dday. The gaslighting from my WW helped that too. However, when you look at the entire story, all the signs were clear as day, I just didnít want to see them until I got irrefutable proof of an affair, then my whole world came crashing down on me.

thatbpguy posted 11/19/2020 18:02 PM

Only she knows what she's been up to, but it looks pretty bad to me.

If you cannot gather information now, I'd make it clear to her you have enough information to know she's betrayed you. Give her the option of telling you with a polygraph afterwards for honesty- or get out of the house now.

Sometimes an ultimatum is the only way out of infidelity.

Jameson1977 posted 11/19/2020 19:22 PM

Totally agree with thatbpguy. In my case, had I been decisive and strong day one, I probably could have avoided years of torment.

Ariopolis posted 11/19/2020 19:38 PM

That sounds so much like my H, a serial cheater and constant liar.

He'd come home from work and only talk about "Charlene." C did this, said that, C went there and this happened. Never one word about her H.

Then one day he never mentioned her name again. He did however start golfing, playing basketball and softball four nights a week.

He dared tell me he had to practice for the next day's practice for softball. They have all the respect they'd have for a ball of snot for you.

He came home with a hickey. Another time with a black eye. He had stopped talking to me and if he was home in the evening, read the paper from 5 PM until 10:00 at night.


It sounds like you have a serial on your hands. When they get rejected by their love interest, like it sounds like with your W's lawyer coworker, they sulk.

Yours said she'd never do anything because of the house; she just told you a lie and one truth, where she ranks you. When mine was spreading his legs in front of me because his AP (a different one) was rubbing his crotch, as I said, in front of me, he told me later, "you'll never see that again."

At the work Christmas party after we were married just months before, he and his AP stared at each other the entire time, he against one wall, her standing against the opposite wall. Yeah, it was weird. They just didn't care what others thought.

Sure I complained. I also never went to another of his work Christmas parties again. I am to understand his huge company just stopped having them. (They didn't.)

I think your wife is doing the same thing my H did. I also don't think from what you said that it's necessarily guys chasing her. Unless she's got the rep for being available, of course. Mine gets interested in someone and that's it. It's like he's dating again. He talks and talks about this amazing new person and all of a sudden nothing.

When he stops talking about them, I have finally realized that is a sign they've crossed a line.

He's done this about three times in a 20+ year marriage. It's a pattern.

Best of luck and don't be like me. It's really, really bad for your health. You could die young just from the stress. Find out what's going on.

I could be wrong in your case, and I hope I am. But gosh, reading that made me feel like I was going through it all again.

[This message edited by Ariopolis at 7:43 PM, November 19th (Thursday)]

landclark posted 11/19/2020 20:36 PM

The weight loss shouldnít be for you. I donít think wanting to lose weight or get into better shape alone is a red flag. Also I know personal details about a lot of people I work with, men and women. I work closely with a lot of people. People trust me. I never cross any lines, but can tell you birthdays, kids names, pets they have, have met some wives, etc. I travel with mostly men and work with mostly men. Again not by itself a red flag because I have boundaries.

My WH never talked about any of the APs. Ever. I had no idea any of them even existed. Maybe wayward women are more likely to talk though? I donít know because Iím not one. I will sometimes talk about guys at work to my WH but nothing is going on.

That said, there are a lot of red flags in your story, and I think in general people should trust their gut on stuff like this.

JanaGreen posted 11/19/2020 21:04 PM

My WH never talked about any of the APs.

I think this varies from cheater to cheater. My ex would usually tell on himself if I listened hard enough.

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