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New Betrayed Husband

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steadychevy posted 7/24/2020 19:50 PM

I have to agree with faithfulman. I recommended IC for your WW. It is only worth any expenditure if she truly recognizes something is dreadfully wrong with her and wants to correct that defi9ciency.

In most cases, or at least in my WW's case, there was opportunity, she wanted to, she thought she'd never get caught so she did it. It's really as simple as that. That is the why. There is a bigger why. The bigger why is why did she feel entitled to do that. A lot harder to figure out and to get to the bottom of. I don't know how many actually have the fortitude and desire to actually figure it out. More excuses and contributing factors is easier.

Stevesn posted 7/24/2020 19:56 PM


I told you Iíd give some thoughts later. So here i am. I can tell, itís gonna be long. At the very least I hope youíll consider it because it took me a couple of hours to write. But I understand how overwhelming all the advice from different posters can be.

Like others here, when it comes to post DDay, Iím big on honesty. Even if that honestly is ďthis is a deal breaker, i donít want to discuss it, youíll be hearing from my lawyerĒ. If thatís the case, skip what Iím gonna say the next 1000 words and go directly to GO, spend more than $200 and file. Iím not against D. It can be a healthy option in an unhealthy situation.

As is to be expected, you are riding a roller coaster of emotion, changing your mind a million times a day, cannot process everything being absorbed in your brain. Itís normal. Donít feel like you are not doing this correctly. You are doing better than most and NO ONE (except in fictionÖ and we do get that here sometimes) does it perfectly.

That said, Iím going to talk about what i see as how you should be approaching things with her. How i would do it does not have to be how you would do it. And honestly, a lot of what you are doing is what i and others here would do as well.

So back to honestly. If R is ever going to be possible, both you and she need to be completely honest. And that means you too. You need to be clear about how you feel and what you need. Donít leave it to chance and wonder. State it once and tell her you are moving on until you see it happening. And even then, no promises of reconciliation.

Now for all who at this point will chime In And say, no matter what she does you will never get past this and your life will be miserable, I DONT NECESSARILY DISAGREE, I honestly think that the road is to hard to recover and rebuild when you have a truly remorseful WW, and in your case sheís not yet showing the awareness of what she has done and what she has to do to make R possible.

So because of that, at the end, Iím gonna support your decision to get advice from (multiple) lawyers and actually start the paperwork toward D.

But I think itís always best to keep your options open as long as you can. And filing for D does not necessarily close the door on the possibility of R. Each actually follow the same path for a long while until down the road you decide to complete the process or stop it.

So since the D process is pretty straight forward and you have already said youíre gonna talk to lawyers, Iím going to focus on the best approach on what to do on the R side. And it definitely starts with NOT committing to R in any way. Which you have not done so that is good.

But there are a few additional things I would say to her after your conversation yesterday that could help show her what itís going to take for you TO EVEN CONSIDER staying in this relationship another day week month or year.

So letís discuss them and talk about the things to say to get those thoughts across to her so she very clearly understands where you are coming from.

I think everyone here can see that her approach is to make her doing any work to rebuild conditional on you meeting some ďtermsĒ about committing to work on the marriage. AH, I hope you agree, that is not going to fly one bit. I want to tell you, if you go read some threads here on the wayward side, the Wayward Spouses that truly GET IT, are the ones that completely let go of control of the process and work to become as selfless as possible toward their betrayed spouses.

The act of the affair is completely selfish. The only way to even try to counteract it as The WS, is to become completely selfless. And by that I mean, for the short term (6 months, a year, perhaps more) the happiness of the WS has to become secondary to that of the BS. They have dropped an atom bomb on the relationship. If they want a chance to put what they destroyed back together, bit by bit, they canít start demanding anything. Thatís not how it works. That will never be successful.

The WS has to come to feel their BSís pain more clearly than their own. They have to care about what they did. Pure empathy. And be as mad at themselves for doing it as the BS is.

Now that doesnít mean the WS wonít be focusing on themselves at all. Oh hell no. They are going to have to go deep inside themselves to figure out Truly how they had such awfulness inside them to be able to do what they did.

The answer to why is NOT ďmy husband stopped paying attention to meĒ. That may have been an issue, but thatís not the reason they did what they did. Thatís a childís answer. Sheís a grown woman. She knows better and can do better.

If someone goes on a mass murdering spree the reason is not ďbecause my husband cut the neighbors lawnĒ. They may have used that to trigger the event or justify it in their mind, but they need months and years of self analysis to ever figure out how to fix what was broken inside themselves to think the solution To having your spouse do acts of kindness for others was to shoot up a post office.

Thatís what we are dealing with here. Your wife wants to be able to look herself in the mirror and be able to say ďthe ends justify the meansĒ. That she was right, if you had only paid more attention this never would have happened. But if you guys were ever going to be able to reconcile and find happiness together again, in A different way than before but hopefully in a way thatís fulfilling to each of you going forward, her telling you what you did wrong all those years, demanding you fix those things and her simply saying ďmy badÖ sorry for cheating on youĒ is not going to make that happen.

So the goal would be to very clearly get across to her that the first steps on the road to rebuild require her, not you, her alone, to find humility and selflessness in helping you heal from the marital crime she committed for a very long time and in such a devastating way. The focus right now needs to be on the A, not the marriage.

And if she canít do that, without any guarantee that you will stay and not D her, then you will realize very quickly that there is not chance for the two of you to find a happy and satisfying life together and itís best to go your separate ways.

Most of us can tell when a WS ďgets itĒ. We can see it in their approach to trying to desperately undo what they have done. Your WW has mixed In A few good words with an approach to trying to control everything about the narrative and process. Itís important that you clearly communicate to her that her approach is not going to fly and if she truly wants a chance to keep you in her life, she needs to understand the following things.

Below is how I would say it to her. Others may do it differently. Being NC and 180 is fine right now and if you definitively decide on D then you never have to say this to her. But if you want to show her that the path to redemption, albeit a narrow one, exists, this is how Iíd phrase it.

Iíd probably put it in a letter so there is no interruption. Whether you read it to her or let her read it is up to you. (Oh an I put ďwifeĒ where you should substitute her name)

ďWife. Iím glad we talked. I learned a lot. I will tell you I understand 10 times more now about what was happening between us than I did a year ago or even in 2018 before you started your relationship with your boyfriend. Your words yesterday told me more about what you were feeling than all the words you said to me during that time.

The thing is though, i was in the same marriage, wife. You think every day was a happy one for me? You think I enjoy each and every moment the past umpteen years when I have physically worked on a hot day or a cold winter night to get others some comfort? You think i felt loved every moment of every of those days since we got married?

Now I wonít say that everything I did and do for our family was selfless. I wont say that I busted my ass for only you and the kids. But what I have done over the years as part of the team I thought we were, was to work my hardest to give us all, me included, the chance to have everything that I thought we deserved. Thatís what I thought your goal was as well. Thatís what I thought we wanted, were working for together together, for our relationship.

I can see now that perhaps we were not speaking the same language. That the way i showed you love was not how you wanted to receive it. Perhaps that explains my own frustration with why we were not connecting.

But here is the deal. We could have worked on that, if you hadnít made the choice, and yes it was a choice, to do what you did. I was in the same marriage wife, and I didnít think once that the solution was to start a whole new relationship, emotional and physical, with someone else, and at the same time, actually do everything I can to humiliate you while I was doing it.

You see, I donít think you fully comprehend yet what you did and what you are asking of me. Maybe this will explain it better.

You chose (every day while you gave to him instead of me the things that were special between us) to pick up a revolver, walk over and stand close to him, across the room from me and tell me to take off all my clothes. Then you recorded me pissing myself in fear of being held at gunpoint and laughed together with him while it was happening. Then you jointly held the gun together, kissed and pulled the trigger, pumping ten rounds into my chest. And while you were doing it, you rubbed up against him and stroked between his legs, looking at him and laughing together as I fell to the floor.

And after all that, after seeing what you did, you now come to me and say, ďI understand why that is so painful. I talked to my pastor and he helped me to understand. So if you promise to agree to work on a few things that were missing from our relationship, I will put a compress on your chest to try and stop the bleeding, call 911 and help you to get to the hospital. But while you are in there the next 3-6 months, if they get you out of intensive care, can you read this book on being a better husband while you recover from that heart transplant?Ē

Now you are probably rolling your eyes, but quite honestly that kind of physical wound to the heart would be preferable to me than the emotional one you delivered to me. (Donít get any ideas, now that I have one type of injury I donít need the other).

Wife what you did during the affair was one of the highest act of selfishness a wife can perpetrate on her husband. If I wasnít hearing you about what you needed, your job was to yell and shout and tell me that I was losing you. You should have had D papers drawn up and set in front of me at the dinner table. You should have ended the marriage before starting a new one with someone else.

Instead you decided to pull that trigger and do irreparable damage to the relationship you claim to still Want. Marriage Counseling is for a Marriage under stress. We now have a marriage destroyed.

And by asking what you are asking of me, you are still being selfish. You are still being a cheater with wayward thinking.

What you need to be, if you truly want what you say you do, is to be SELFLESS. You are no where near that state of being right now. You still want to be in control. You still want to tell me what to do. STOP TELLING ME WHAT TO DO!

We are now two separate broken people. Broken people cannot fix a marriage. Broken people cannot do anything until they fix themselves. Stop telling me that you will work on fixing things from the affair as long as I agree to work on being better husband. I AM NO LONGER YOUR HUSBAND! I am on paper only. You fired me from that job the moment you made that piece of shit for a human being more important in your life than I was.

And that is what you did. You gave him my place. You thought about him each day more than you thought about me. You improved yourself for him, not me. You dressed up for him. You thought about what you could do for him. You did things for him, emotionally, romantically, sexually for him that you never did for me. And you told him things and went further in doing so than you ever did for me.

You did all that for you. You did it because you wanted it for you. Donít ever again say to me that you did it to make our marriage better or even to keep it going. It was all a lie. It wasnít real life. You dont think I could go and do that every couple of days or weeks for another manís wife if she was Interested in me? Thereís no downside. Itís easy to be the knight in shining armor when you do t have to deal with real life things!

And hereís the part I donít understand. Why are you torturing me saying you want to be with me? He has more money. Can wine, dine, sixty-nine you the way you want to be, does it for you emotionally and sexually, and from what I read heís your soulmate and you love him.

It was quite clear. So why are you here saying these things to me? Go be with the man you love. Even if we can work hard to get thru this, i donít need a partner that forever pines for the man that got away. Who now choses me as plan B.

For cripes sake, you still let him message you. If you didnít want that youíd be down at the police station right now getting a restraining order against him! Why havenít you? It still feeds your ego having a man fighting for your love. Heís everything you wanted Wife. And heís probably gonna be single real soon. Why are you here saying you want me?

How are you ever gonna make me feel safe? How are you ever gonna prove to me that you wonít just bounce back to him as soon as his D is final.

Are you only here because saving face to the rest of the world including our kids and family is the most important thing to you? Are you trying to prove to everyone and yourself that you are not a bad person, a piece of shit like him, and were justified in what you did? That is not being selfless. Thatís continuing to be selfish.

Let me be clear this one time and tell you exactly how it is. We cannot be together while you continue to be selfish. We cannot have a chance to be together until you give up the narrative you are clinging to and grasping to keep control.

You need to let go Wife. You need to let go of the outcome of whether or not we will ever be together and just do the right thing by me and for you.

You keep saying ďIíll do whatever it takesĒ. I donít really think you understand or truly have thought thru what that means. The things you need to do to get me to even consider trying to rebuild a relationship with you, those things are so far out of your comfort zone, I donít ever see you being able to get yourself to do them. You want to do anything and everything ďthat is easyĒ to save face and your marriage.

Let me talk about the truly hard things, the ďanythingĒ that needs to be done, for a minute. These are just a few things i would need to even someday consider trying to rebuild. They will be uncomfortable and in some cases, humiliating.

To start, i need every detail. Every interaction. Each time you were together. Written down. No high level overview. I need to know how you planned it, what you were thinking, who set it up, things you said and discussed, how you felt about him, how you felt about me and yes, who did what to whom. Which body parts fit where. Each instance over the 18 months.

Let me tell you why. First off, if I don't know what Iím healing from, I canít heal. Donít worry, I can imagine equal or worse than what you did. If I don't know what you did and said, i will imagine you did EVERYTHING. Donít ask the things I can dream up that you did. You know the whole truth, I know a Sliver. If you want a chance to reconcile with me, we need to know the same things otherwise we will never get to a point where we can work through it together. Write it all out and letís review it.

The second reason is that if you truly want to be with me, then there can. be NOT ONE THING Secret between you and the piece of shit. If you still have a place in your heart for him, there is no place for me in it at all. So every thing you did needs to become common and boring. Discussed ad nauseum. And it needs to be no longer a secret. So I need to know it all.

And to be honest. Not just me. We need to find others to be in on the secret. What? That would be humiliating you say? Well welcome to my world. We can discuss who to bring in on these dirty secrets.

Wife, You need to metaphorically put a billboard up at the center of town with your and my picture saying ďI hurt this good man, I donít deserve him, he deserves all the happiness in the world and Iíll spend my lifetime trying to make sure he gets it, with me or withoutĒ. And then tell them why. Tell them why you are disgusted by it and how you want the whole world to know that you hurt the best man you ever knew. Why have you not already thought of this if you are willing to do anything?

Could you ever see yourself being able to do that? You say ďIíd do anythingĒ. Well Iím being honest and clear. This is what honesty is. You dont just get to say, ďmy badĒ and we all of a sudden fall back in love, attend Marriage Counseling, and say we will promise to do better next time.

And no more telling the kids that this is all because how i neglected you. Could you see yourself honestly telling our kids that your choice to cheat is what has ended our marriage and feeling alone in a marriage is absolutely not a reason to cheat? Could you do that selflessly? I Personally donít think you could. Do you want our children to grow up thinking that itís ok to coldly stab your partner in the back if he or she isnít giving you what you need? Is that the message you want our kids to take away from this?

They will think more highly of you and learn from you and respect you if you are honest with them and donít try to blame shift what you did onto the person you did it to. Again, this is what ďIíll do anythingĒ looks like.

And wife, I understand you have breached the faith you hold so dearly. So I understand you reaching out to your pastor. But religious leaders are notorious for suggesting that these things are best swept under the rug. I would never keep you from seeking such guidance (although honestly I would feel more comfortable with ALL Interactions to be with women instead of men going forward no matter who they are) but your affair was carried on in the secular world, and I absolutely require that you find support from a non religious therapist as well. This needs to be a female counselor who specializes in Infidelity. This is an absolute must.

You need to work with such a person on a weekly or twice weekly basis for at least 6 months to start. You need to figure out why what you did, in your mind, was a proper response to any marital strife you might face in the future.

I will be reaching out to one myself. I will be working on my pain. Healing this metaphorical chest wound. And figuring out what I want the direction to be for the rest of my life. I canít tell you, 3 weeks from DDay, that I truly know what that direction will be. I also have a lot of work to do to figure that out.

Honestly Wife, you asking for Marriage counseling is so far premature I canít even conceive of it. We canít counsel a marriage that doesnít exist. I may still be in love with you, but right now, I do not like you. I canít even tell if I want to be married to you anymore. Right now, you are a bad person to me. Not just a good person who did a bad thing. How can I be married to someone who when the going gets tough, they make choices like you did. I donít know how long it will take to ever feel safe with you again.

And itís not just the cheating. Itís the way you felt you could talk so badly about me. I read the texts, again and again. It never occurred to me to ever say words like that about you to someone. And never occurred to me to say things like that and then tell that other person I love them instead and then spread my legs for them. How? How could I ever trust you again enough to sit with you and a marriage counselor and say that I will make changes.

Before I suggest how we proceed I want to give you a few more examples of what ďIíll do anything really meansĒ. You have to understand these things before you truly say those words. Honestly when you hear these things I suspect youíll retract what you said and go running. You canít really want this can you?

Your job. How can I ever trust you again to work with men. And alone with them in furnished homes? Your breach is so impacting on our relationship I canít ever feel comfortable with you doing that. Do we hire another woman to chaperone you each time you need to interact with a man? Itíll be years before I dont throw up knowing youíre meeting a dude alone at a walk thru. How are we going to handle that.

And are you prepared to include me on every text response you give to a man? I shouldnít have to play PI on your phone to know what you are saying to guys. How can we handle this? You need to figure this out. This single set of choices you made have gotten us to this point.

You said you are ALL IN. If you truly are that means youíd want to provide me peace of mind at every point of your day week month year. You need to drive that! Not me.

What if I need you to quit your job in which you obviously canít be trusted in that environment. What if I need you to find work in a more female based industry. You prepared to do that? How come you havenít offered that yet if youíll ďdo anythingĒ? Why do I have to come up with these things?

And for now, how am I to believe you're not just settling for me. I canít give you the material things a multimillionaire can. I was busting my ass to try and get us to a place where we can someday do the type of things youíve now experienced with the PIece of shit. I can work for 20 more years, how will you ever be satisfied with the type of life I hoped to spend with you when youíve done far more already with him. Youíve already had more fantastic moments with him than i can ever give you. Tell me how your gonna convince me that doing anything with me is superior to the things you experienced with him. Iíll always be feeling Iím not measuring up.

And finally, the humiliation I suffered preparing a house to be suitably comfortable for another man to fuck my wife. I will say it, youíre lying. You did something with him there that day. As I said above, I need to know it all. On this and other points you need to take a polygraph to ensure I have the absolute truth. Iíd rather know what you did truthfully than a lie to spare my feelings. Iím humiliated enough as it is. Donít add to that pin by lying about what happened. Tell me the absolute truth and then we will confirm it. You should want to do this for me. Again that is what ďdoing anything meansĒ. You should be suggesting these things, not me!

Wife, these are just a few examples of the type of things I will need to be able to even consider working to rebuild with you what you have now destroyed. Are you sure this is what you want? It doesnít sound fun to me. Itís no quick fix. Are you sure Iím worth it when Iím not even sure you like me?

No, if you truly want this, and I still dont understand why you would, then we need to slow this process way down.

And in doing so you are truly going to have to learn to become selfless. You are going to have to change how you need to be in control of this process. You are going to have to do these things, without guarantee. I cannot promise you that even if you do these things I can find a way to stay with you.

A truly remorseful cheating wife would want, above all, for me to find happiness out of the devastation i've been inflicted with, whether that happiness was with you or not.

So here is what I propose.

First of all, any new cheating means we stop contact with each other for good and work to complete a divorce.

If you truly want this because you really honestly love me, then Monday you go to the police department and file a restraining order on the POS. You do this because itís what you want for us, not just because i want it. Be honest. If you canít remove him from our life then you just need to honestly tell me that and we will, again, work to end our marriage so you can go be with him.

Then next week we find individual counselors that must specialize in infidelity (mine also will specialize in trauma) and start working with them each week. We need to figure out who we each are now. This will take a while.

Then after six months, If we are each in the same mindset and feel we see the good work each other is doing, then we can discuss adding marriage counseling to what we are doing to rebuild. If we are in such a good place, then we can use it to start discussing what we each need in a new marriage. However, perhaps we will decide we are not ready and need more Individual therapy first. Or Maybe we will decide nothing is working and we need to go our separate ways. No guarantees about anything.

And to that end, there is one more thing. Im still going to talk to a lawyer. I need to. I think I may even start the divorce process so we know and understand what it is about. If we are both doing what we need to do, we will take that process real slow. We can even pause it if things are going well.

Wife, this is the leap of faith you are going to need to take if we are going to have a chance. I cannot promise you a thing right now except to do exactly what I said above. Think long and hard about this. You canít do this half assed if life with me is what you truly want. If itís him you desire, go get him. I donít need any more dishonesty in my life. If Iím to heal alone, Iíd be much better off starting to try and do that now instead of continuing to work with you for months when your heart is elsewhere.

Iím convinced the only way to find love with you again is to gain it through the pride I feel that you did these things, this hard work, for me. Only for me and no one else in the world. Of course For you too. But you did it, without a net, selflessly to help me heal and to become the person I deserve as a partner. I can truly then say that is something you never did for that POS or any other man. That is something i could consider special and try, only try, to build on.

These are my terms. I fully expect you to tell me to go to hell. I dont think you love me enough to do this. I honestly think you love him more. I 90% expect you to dump me now and chase your dreams with him. And if thatís what you need, go do it. Only do these things because you want to do them, for me, for you, because you truly do love me.

Iím glad to discuss, but there is no negotiation. I love you, but I will not settle for less. I want to be a great husband to you, but until I can get off life support from the wound you inflicted, Iíll never be able to honestly work on the marriage especially if Iím still emotionally teetering between emotional life and death.

Iíll be moving forward with finding a lawyer and a counselor for me. If you want to talk, you know where to find me.

I have nothing more to sayĒ

Then AH, let it go. Sheíll do what sheíll do. You cannot control what that is. Focus on you. If you need to tell an abridged version of this to your daughter to get her off your back do so. You donít owe anybody, especially your wife, confidentiality.

Iím sorry this was so long but I saw it in my mind and I had to get it out the way it came into focus for me.

You may hate it, or disagree with parts of it. Use any of it that works for you. Again, I suggest sending it in writing.

Some here will agree with me. Some will say stop talking to her even one more time. Whatever, the beauty of this place is all the opinions to choose from. But itís yours to choose what you do.

Above all, please clearly state what you need to see from her to even try someday. Donít settle for what she demands. Think about your happiness years from now and what it takes to get you there with her or without her.

Communicate it. Then begin to move on. Her saying sheíll do it IS NOT the starting point. Rebuilding the relationship starts only when SHES DONE IT. So let her know what she needs to do, then tell her your moving on til you see it happen. Actions not words.

I wish you well.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 10:58 AM, July 25th (Saturday)]

Jman posted 7/24/2020 20:02 PM

If I was a betting man I would say the odds are 80-20 that she would fail a polygraph. He is still calling her and talking to her. The affair is still ongoing. If he decided to bite the financial bullet and leave his wife your wife is out the door.

What she made you do by going to that cabin is evil. I donít know how you could stomach seeing her face after that. God bless you.

ShutterHappy posted 7/24/2020 20:23 PM

2- she was apologetic and owned up the A, she never said that me ignoring her made her cheat, in fact she spent the first 10 minutes explaining how horrible and wrong cheating is,

I wonder if everybody missed that part. I donít know too much about waywards. I only have experience with one thank god. What I read on SI is that it takes time for them to get it.

I think from her point of view, she had one shot at this. So AH ended up with a mashed up speech of a dash of remorse, 2 spoons of regrets, 1 cup of blameshifting, 3 cups of rationalization etc...

I donít know about you, but when reading new threads, I mainly asked myself... does the newly betrayed has the option of R or D, or only D?

Those options are not great, but itís better than, say rug sweeping. Two options are better than one. Would R be possible with AH WW? I do not know. Some stories here on SI are no brainers... Those stories are like... ďrun!Ē. Iím not sure about this one. When I read BeyondRage story, it was two options in my mind. When I read Westway, one option.

AH, you want to D? That is a good solution. You will be just fine. But at the end of the day, youíre the one who decides.

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 8:25 PM, July 24th (Friday)]

This0is0Fine posted 7/25/2020 00:30 AM

Alcohol is not a blessing. You need a clear mind right now. Not a muddied one lacking inhibition and bent toward emotion. Your emotions do not serve your best interest long term. They make you seek immediate relief. Probably in the arms of the person that betrayed you. Knock it off. That's my advice.

DeWittle posted 7/25/2020 01:22 AM

You are getting good advice but I want to touch on a couple things.

Iím with JMan, your WW is still in the A. If she is not ACTIVELY stopping his contact she still has a foot in the A AND she can stop it. You should also be forwarding those messages to OBS, WW should send them to you and you to OBS, as they arrive.

Continue the D process. If you decide to R, it can always be stopped. It will serve two purposes, your WW will know she pushed her family to the edge and if you should decide to D, you are that much closer. That includes separation, if your state has a requirement of separation, start that clock as soon as possible.

Lastly, how your WW can say she didnít intend to cuckold you with that heater incident is total BS. No one is that stupid nor naive, she knew what was going on. I just donít see a way past that, if it were me, with her lying about it.

NaturalX posted 7/25/2020 01:49 AM

Since cheating is not longer penalized this has only become more common in society.

Buffer posted 7/25/2020 02:17 AM

Hi brother,
First off, no blame shifting, second no blame shifting !
So she isnít really angry at POS just that her life has melted from within due to her deliberate actions.
It was all about me getting reassurance from OM. So I was angry at BS and had to bang AP.
Definitely no remorse there. Didnít she previously state that she was hanging around until your youngest left for college before leaving?
Oh no just a fantasy I am in to substantiate my actions I really donít want this to be over?

Has she sent (on your ok) a no contact letter stating any further contact will be construed as harassment and the police will be advised? POS is keeping her as a back up to his wife. The maintenance at his abode was a direct attempt to show his dominance over you to your WW. She did play along, look at the text stream. She canít be his property manager from now on. Nor can she associate with her approving colleague. As well inform on the Toxic friends spouse. You donít need her permission for that.

I feel IC would be better suited for now, you both were in the same marriage yet only she cheated.

Can I ask a complete different quest from the side?
Why did she begrudge you changing a toilet and vanity for your parents?
Any person would do something for their parents. If you were visiting her parents would it be a bug bear if you changed their toilet or vanity? I canít see the problem there with helping out a parent.

Unfortunately good guys finish last.
One day at a time

[This message edited by Buffer at 3:17 AM, July 25th (Saturday)]

ramius posted 7/25/2020 02:24 AM

What would you tell a buddy in this situation?

Would you tell him to believe any of the bullshit your cheating wife is feeding you?

IMO, it really doesnít matter that you love her. She does not love you. No woman who sets it up to cuck her husband, and then laugh about it later.....loves her husband.

IMO, not R material. Assuming R is even an option for you.

Let her two years of fun keep her warm at night. She and her piece of shit lover can make a new life together built on dishonesty.

BTW, this is experience talking here, most pastors are terrible at addressing adultery.

J0ck posted 7/25/2020 05:07 AM

Okay mate you've had loads of great advice, i'll just throw a couple of thoughts in there for you.

Next week you need legal advice for sure.

About the boiler I see it more as a case of him trying to belittle you and your wife going along to ingratiate herself so to speak, just a thought.

You could ask if she'd take a polygraph, as much for her reaction as anything.

How hard is it to stop a nuisance caller ?

To be honest I don't think you've got much to work with here she's been checked out for two years. all she's trying to do is be able to say she tried and it's not her fault etc.

smolderingdark posted 7/25/2020 05:54 AM

Everything that has occurred has happened because your wife chose for it to happen. The most egregious of which was her dragging you out of state to fix the heating at her APs cabin so that she could be comfortable fucking him there. On the same trip no less. Your wife claims she meant no disrespect. Bullshit. She knew exactly what she was doing. You have worked hard to build a family and a future with this wayward woman. Your reward has been betrayal. For an individual such as yourself there is no recovery from such a betrayal like this.

A 2 year affair - her intention would have been to have the AP replace you. Her affair would have continued on if the other man's wife had not exposed them both. You are plan B, the safety net until things cool off and they can resume their liaison. Your wayward is a hypocrite. Kind enough to lecture you on how horrible cheating is while doing so for 2 years. She admits if the roles were reversed she would have killed you. How typical. Do as I say, not as I do.

Without trust there is no love or respect. Your wayward wife has broken trust between you in the most painful way possible. She feared your reaction to her affair and yet proceeded anyway. Continued to do so for 2 years! You have not divorced her yet. You are giving her hope that she will come out of this unscathed. If you choose to reconcile it should only take a few short months for her to become emboldened enough to disrespect you once more.

You can certainly attempt reconciliation. I think it is likely you will be very disappointed with the results. I would recommend divorce. Reclaim your life and take it away from her. You are unsure right now. Walking away from all your years, all you have accumulated split. All it takes is the first step. You will find the burden of staying with such a woman will crush your soul and outweigh any benefit if you choose to keep this woman as your wife whatever your reasoning.

paboy posted 7/25/2020 06:06 AM

When you start seeing lawyers, it is good to eliminate all the great ones by having a consultation over the phone, thus eliminating them being able to be used by the other party. You should at least let the AP's wife know this so that if things go south for her, she has an immediate advantage.

At the end of the day, you need to weigh up whats the best option, the one where you will be the happiest, and pursue that.

If R is an option, how obtainable will it be. Can you see your wife putting in the effort to save and restore the marriage. Again, you will be putting trust in your wife to preserve, and uphold the marriage. Can she deliver.

And you. Can you see yourself being able to heal in this marriage now, and to flourish. Do you think that you will you be able to love your wife ever again. Do you feel that you have it in you to move forward with her.

For a marriage to flourish, you both need to put in the work. For you, it means eventually letting go, and investing in the relationship. Do you think that you will be able to do this.

If divorce is your consideration, are you emotional strong to move forward. What would divorce do to your emotional well being. Have you a strong support base to assist you. how will you be able to support your children through this. Can you see you moving on from your current wife successfully. What can you do to enhance your life moving forward.

Some thoughts for you to consider.

[This message edited by paboy at 6:08 AM, July 25th (Saturday)]

steadychevy posted 7/25/2020 06:45 AM

This has probably been mentioned to you already, AH. I haven't read back to see.

Your WW has given you her version of your marriage. Cheaters re-write marital history. I would bet that 2 and a half years ago she didn't have that vision of it. They need to do this because they know they are not bad people so there must have been a very, very good reason for her to commit adultery. Even with that we all can see how many holes there are in her story.

The marital re-write often, it seems to me, to be based on some small but real issue. It is a mole hill but it is blown up to be a mountain. Consider what your WW has given as issues that made her (this is blameshifting) seek attention elsewhere that, by her estimation, helped the marriage continue. In my opinion they are a total re-write. Those issues probably barely existed but now are momentous.

Are there issues? Of course. Did you contribute to them? Of course. Did she? Of course. Are they now solvable? Very difficult to say. I submit that the person who commits adultery probably values the marriage less and invests in it less. Along with that I submit that the issues they bring to the table are greater and proportionately more on their side.

Jman posted 7/25/2020 06:52 AM

Why a demand a polygraph?

1. You want to know if she is being honest.

2. It can literally save you years of misery if she is not telling you the truth.

3. If it proves she is still in the affair you can get out of infidelity immediately.

4. For $4-500, itís a cheap investment that can save your mental and physical well-being.

scrambledbrain posted 7/25/2020 07:08 AM

I think u r right about the sales pitch and her skills show.

For instance, a skilled sales person will often unilaterally disclose a couple of minor negatives as part of a confidence game. It seem like she did this here. Like telling you about the post DD AP outreach. Looks like sheís bending over backwards in belated honesty, but she didnít block him, and had no downside for the disclosure.

ďIím a little worried that the roof might need some work in 3-5 years (see how I have your back?) but this house is SO perfect for you.Ē

I also would be further insulted by the we didnít do it when I dragged you up North bit. Even if itís true it kinda twists the knife, no?

Anyway, Iíd be prepared for her to continue with the pitch.

Stinger posted 7/25/2020 07:35 AM

Damn, you have a remorseless, lying cheater on your hands. She must think you are an idiot. Jettison this trash.

Jman posted 7/25/2020 07:44 AM

Post of the year.

Damn, you have a remorseless, lying cheater on your hands. She must think you are an idiot. Jettison this trash.

HellFire posted 7/25/2020 08:14 AM

ShutterHappy, I did not miss that. However, she spent the rest of the conversation saying..

our marriage was struggling before the A
(Blaming the marriage)

she begged for time for us but I ignored her. she felt that I didnít care about putting any effort and I was content to live the way Iíve been
(Blaming OP)

she felt that I was looking for any excuse to not be with her like mowing the grass for the neighbors or cleaning the garage
(Blaming OP)

Our life was mundane, our kisses werenít real anymore just habit and sex was just a duty.
(Blaming OP)

She slept with him for the first time October 2018 after I went to a hunting trip in Canada with some friends, she was mad at me for going it was a misunderstanding on the timing I remember that but the trip was already planned I couldnít cancel, I guess to retaliate she spent most of that week with him
(Blaming OP)

Then came the OM who gave her the attention I didnít, told her the words I didnít,
(Blaming OP)

[This message edited by HellFire at 8:14 AM, July 25th (Saturday)]

josiep posted 7/25/2020 08:38 AM

AH, Let me repeat what many other have said. Read everything people have written and then take some time to mull it over. You'll know what hits home for you and which things apply in your situation.

As your fellow travelers down this ugly road called infidelity, we're trying to share our experiences and our strength with you so that you suffer as little as possible. Many, perhaps even most, of us did so many things that just prolonged the pain.

So I guess to put it in a nutshell, your WW crossed a line that should never be crossed and until she understands that and fixes it, the only thing you can do is take care of yourself and do what you need to be as healthy as possible, emotionally and physically. That's pretty much what the 180 is all about.

Take care, my friend.

Robert22205https posted 7/25/2020 08:38 AM

I think you've received a lot of good advice. Two in particular from ChamomileTea & Stevesn are very much on point and worth publishing.

1 - I agree putting your 'response' in writing. That way you get to select your words and she gets to time to comprehend what you're saying.

You should consider having her respond in writing.

2 - The decision to R or D isn't a race. Give yourself plenty of time to get your head on straight. Stop drinking and see a doctor instead for help dealing with this mess.

Although I think your wife is a POS right now, IMO her behavior is also textbook cheater so far - so it's too early to say if she can become R material. The firmer your rejection of her little 'speech' and wayward thinking the more likely she will wake up.

3 - Under the circumstances and in view of your wife's mental block, I think you should file for D with the understanding that she has time to prove she's a safe partner.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 8:39 AM, July 25th (Saturday)]

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