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New Betrayed Husband

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Mrhealed posted 7/24/2020 12:04 PM

Doubled post

[This message edited by Mrhealed at 12:10 PM, July 24th (Friday)]

Mrhealed posted 7/24/2020 12:09 PM

It seems like sh has educatwd her self about infidelity. In one hand is good so she can have a glims if the oain she has inflicted, not just in you, but her kids, OM wife, etc. And the consecuencia she may face, not just D, but her relación with enablers.

IMO It doesnt make sence. She felt guilty, but continúe even after OM wife discover It. Even after her sumyster Warner her. I am sorry but how can OM be so in love with her, and she is not if she wasnt able to end the affair before, how coukd they make plana to be toguether in the future if the affair was on and off? Did you asked if she loves OM? IMO she was on and exit affair. She is just telling you what she thinks you want to ear.
How is it possible she has read about recovety from infidelity and is still in Contact with OM ( she should know by know by nos that any Contact is the A going on, text can be deletrd btw)

Did you changed? I mean since you started dating. Seems like she has rewrite part of her marriage, she stopped noticing you effort. Her coworker encoraged her out if the información she told him. BTW this person must be gone.

Seems like her affair sabes her marriage, and she is not living a finguer until you agree to R. It just doesnt work like that, she is not remorsefull, she is trading. It is not possible to R if first she is not commited, even not kmowing if you may want to try.


There are many actions that she should have done, just to protect you and her family since DDay...not barganing on them

Did her fantasy include making fun of you? Sorry but even not planes, Evan not havibg sexo (a lie btw), she allowed him to make fun of you, she even laugted in the MSM.
Ask her if they talk about you and un what way?

Just to test the whater, ask her to take a Poly about her answers and watch her reaction...

Other thing, her relación with Good is Hera. Please dont allowed her to use the clásico "Jesús forgive me, why dont you". She blew that Cars being a hypocrit with her daugthers boyfriend.

Goodluck

Mrhealed posted 7/24/2020 12:13 PM

Last thing, dont let the anger of our posts rule what to do. There is alot of pain in this section. Take what works for you, keep reading, learning and posting.

[This message edited by Mrhealed at 12:15 PM, July 24th (Friday)]

Robert22205https posted 7/24/2020 12:13 PM

No MC at this time. She should be in IC (one that you jointly select).

The first step is for her to fix herself and make herself a safe partner.

Church council enables her to live with her conscience but does not go deep enough to make her a safe partner going forward.

Confessing her remorse & shame to the church (and freeing herself from guilt) also looks good to the family - but doesn't make her safe.

Her 'reasons' (your short comings as a partner) for choosing adultery are simply convenient excuses that she told herself to justify her behavior.

Before she can fix herself she needs to drill deeper than the excuses and answer the question: why was adultery even an option?

Until she answers that question, she's high risk to repeat.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 12:24 PM, July 24th (Friday)]

HellFire posted 7/24/2020 12:20 PM

She absolutely blames you for the affair. It does not matter that she spent the first ten minutes owning up to it, saying it was all her fault. Because then she goes on to say that the other man filled in that Gap that she claims your marriage had. The Gap that was left by you, because you supposedly did not pay her enough attention, and she felt like you didn't love her anymore. She is blaming you. Make no mistake about that. She is telling you that had you paid her the attention she felt she deserved, and did what she wanted, then she would not have had this affair. She is blaming you for the affair. Add to that she goes on to say that the affair kept your marriage alive. That is some crazy mental gymnastics going on with her.

It's very easy to get rid of the other man. She's going to say she can't block him, he will just use other numbers. If she was really serious, about not wanting this man to contact her anymore, she can go down to the police station, and file a restraining order against him. I wonder if she'll do that?

Thumos posted 7/24/2020 12:22 PM

What will happen is some genius will tell you in all likelihood to forget the affair and focus on your marriage and why you failed to meet her needs

Listen closely now - this is what happened to a lot of us. Go to MC at your own peril.

We went to MC right after D-Day. My WW made an emergency appointment. I spent the next year in that man's office talking through mythopoetic psychodramas. It was actually pretty entertaining and I loved talking about literature with him.

For instance, he wanted me to read the James Joyce story "The Dead" - I did and it was actually helpful - until I realized he was trying to get me to rugsweep by reading it.

The catch for that entertaining literary sojourn was a lot of encouraging rugsweeping and blameshifting and allowing my WW to get away with rewriting the history of the marriage. And of course the most damaging thing was he advocated for me not to see the texts, so my WW had an ally in our "therapist."

Don't do it.

Freeme posted 7/24/2020 12:24 PM

I love your reply to her cheating because she wasn't getting enough attention from you...

I explained to her that I had always loved her and the kids and that yes, I’m not the type of guy who buys flowers just because it’s Thursday and I hate sending text messages, but I would give my life for my family. I told her. if god forbid, she was hit by bus and was handicapped for the rest of her life I wouldn’t hesitate a second to carry her and take care of her as long as I’m alive. I reminded her that I cook and clean the house not that I like doing it but because I love my family

Don't do couples counseling right now. Tell her to sign up for IC and figure out what was so broken in her that made her cheat and lie for YEARS.

Couples counseling will focus on your problems and her problems in the marriage as even. So they will spend the same time talking about how you need to give your WW flowers while your triggering every time you see a florist shop. How you need to trust her while your triggering every time she is on work travel... The focus needs to be one why she did this and in IC.

You have time to figure out what you want to do.

Stillbleeding7 posted 7/24/2020 12:41 PM

Here is the thing, you can take ownership of 50 percent of the things rong in the marriage but the A is all on her. She wants to"make it up for you"(to you). She can't. How can she give you back as I read it the gift that you were her ONE AND ONLY. At least as an adult. Is she good with you taking that from her? If you do R you will know that you let her get away with it. And as a OCD individual it will hurt the rest of your life. Also just because she didn't plan on cukolding you doesn't mean she didn't do it. SHE DID. There is no way she can make it up to you. EVER! Just because a person doesn't mean to commit murder when they hold up a gas station if they shoot the clerk during the holdup and the clerk dies IT'S STILL MURDER. She sounds like her main love language is quality time and words of encouragement. You sound like yours is acts of service. So while you said"I love you " with acts of service she didn't hear it. Now the act she has given you is more than hate. It is sold crushing. She is not being honest by trying to say that her A is a byproduct of you not showing her enuf attention. She wasn't speaking the same love language and made the choice to throw away all most every earthly thing that she was charged by God to protect. As she espouses to being a Christian you should know that God hates divorce but Jesus didn't change what Moses said. That except for fornication you can't divorce and the church today hold that adultery. She committed adultery. People talk about character as missing in a WS yes that is true it is much deeper. They are selfish beyond what you or I can emagien. Also as women need love,men NEED respect just as much. There is no way she can restore to you what she stole from you. At least till she takes ownership of her entire A. As I look back on 30+ years, I can tell you if you do have some OCD (witch makes you good at what you do) you will never get over 100 percent of what she has done to you, but you can make it. You are strong. With or without her. IMHO it hurts longer if you R. Also church ministers are little help. Have her read books that others have suggested here. She has to empty her self of her selfish pride IF she is a candidate for R. Stay strong,eat healthy,lay off the alcohol, stay in shape, love on your children (find out there love language) and let some time pass. Don't let her invade your head space. You can do this!!!!!

Michigan posted 7/24/2020 12:45 PM

What I would add is to ask her why she stopped sleeping with you when she started sleeping with him? It is really hard for a WW to justify that action.

DoinBettr

Technically she didn’t stop having sex with her husband but the frequency decreased during her affair. The point is still very valid.

It’s even worse than that. She increased the frequency of sex with her husband when she lied to the OM and said she wasn’t having sex with him. The act of cheating turns her on no matter who she’s cheating on or with.

He (OM) asked her if we were sleeping on the same bed, she said yes, he said " I hope he ain't getting no P***y from you" she said no we don't do it here any way.

Which was a lie because I remember that we did have sex that night as a matter of fact it was the only time in the last 2 years where we had sex 3 times in one week.

AHGuy

Before lying to the OM about not having sex with husband wife said:

Our life was mundane, our kisses weren’t real anymore just habit and sex was just a duty.

AHGuy

After lying to the OM about not having sex with husband:

it was the only time in the last 2 years where we had sex 3 times in one week.

AHGuy

Ask your wife why cheating in general is such a thrill for her.

[This message edited by Michigan at 10:05 AM, July 25th (Saturday)]

BeyondRage posted 7/24/2020 12:58 PM

“It's very easy to get rid of the other man. She's going to say she can't block him, he will just use other numbers. If she was really serious, about not wanting this man to contact her anymore, she can go down to the police station, and file a restraining order against him. I wonder if she'll do that?

AH
As usual Hellfire got it exactly right. She’s full of shit . First she didn’t tell you right away he’s still calling he . The she keeps answering the phone and not immediately hanging up , and she’s not even pissed off
You have a problem here that you don’t understand how large it is . If he’s as loaded as you say he’s not going to go away quietly especially since it’s worked in the past . Your wife is the problem my friend. At present you know all she’s admitting to telling him is it’s over . Probably told him she just can’t sneak around any more because you know now
You are wasting your money on any therapy of any kind until you know and can verify they’re not still talking for any reason .
And changing her number is not the answer because her fucking work colleague will gladly give it to him plus he know exactly where her office is to go in person . Only your wife can stop this by getting the police involved , an attorney involved because OM obviously has no fear of what his wife is going to do. He’s actually threatening her
And how do you verify anything??? Only with a polygraph . There is no other way
I would not be surprised at all if she would refuse any future request to take one.

Right now she has put the ball back in your court to fix what you were doing wrong. You are in the danger zone my friend

Mrhealed posted 7/24/2020 13:04 PM

Ask her when the marriage started falling apart. You Will ser how she rewrites the marriage to justify her doings. I bet the worse was while she was putting her efford on OM, and conplaining to the enablers.

Ask as well, what did she tell the enablers about you? Give her tope before pointing out all the things you were doing rigth, and not just the ones you were doing wrong, and if she has exagerated your faults

[This message edited by Mrhealed at 1:06 PM, July 24th (Friday)]

Organic2003 posted 7/24/2020 13:16 PM

AH

Could you tell us what is the book she gave you?

I do hope she pulls her head out of her ... and stops rewriting history. You are a good man in every sense, maybe not perfect, but no one is. You are the Prize, she fell for money and excitement nothing more. She was nothing more than a cake eater and a hypocrite. She needs to own that. She fell into Satan's trap and is still believing the lies. She needs to see herself and the POS for what they really are. She needs to hate the AP for falling for the lies.

I do hope for R but not at the expense of you being any cause of this debacle. She needs to reread "How to help heal your Spouse from an Affair". The affair was not caused by anything you did or didn't do.

She needs to find out why she lost her moral compass. You did not lose yours. She could start by looking at why she acted like her Dad.

She said the A is wrong and she wish she could take it back but somehow it kept our marriage alive. She feels bad that she lied to both of us

I just reread your last two posts and maybe she is a little remorseful. But the comment above is crazy talk. Her affair kept the marriage alive and she feels bad for him! That had to be a knife again. She better wake up and figure out who the POS really is.

Back to work with a hangover and life falling apart! Gotta love being a small businessman! LOL

[This message edited by Organic2003 at 2:13 PM, July 24th, 2020 (Friday)]

Robert22205https posted 7/24/2020 13:28 PM

Have your wife give you at least a dozen reasons (w/specific examples) why she loves you.

Have your wife give you a dozen reasons (w/specific examples) why you are a superior life partner to the OM.

Have your wife list at least a dozen reasons why she wants to remain married to you (exclude 'love).

If she's serious about remaining married to you, she will do it immediately.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 1:31 PM, July 24th (Friday)]

Buster123 posted 7/24/2020 13:29 PM

I hope you had the VARs in place in her car before the conversation, if not do it ASAP, you know she's been talking to POSOM (go back and read my previous post about this and other things), at this point she doesn't deserve an ounce of trust and you should verify EVERYTHING, the VAR could give you unfiltered info as it has in many cases here on SI and other forums.

I also agree with the poster that suggested that you file for D, get favorable terms and demote her to FWB, if she wants R bad then she should not have any problems making you plan A, she killed the M with her A so this would be a new M, that is if you still want it at that point, you may stay FWB even if living together or separate, remarry her or just moving on, dump her and find someone else.

steadychevy posted 7/24/2020 13:52 PM

AH, anything said that is followed by a "but", even if the but is implied, negates everything before it. The 10 minutes she used to take on full responsibility was followed by a great big "BUT".

ChamomileTea posted 7/24/2020 14:19 PM

...she said she is not looking to give excuses but just to explain facts, she thinks our marriage was struggling before the A but I refused to see it. She said she thought about leaving me before even we met the OM, and at some point, she thought about life after divorce but she couldn’t do it because she still loved me and didn’t want to break her family. She reminded me of the multiple times she asked for couples counseling and I refused she begged for time for us but I ignored her. she felt that I didn’t care about putting any effort and I was content to live the way I’ve been, she gave up but she never wanted to leave me. Our life was mundane, our kisses weren’t real anymore just habit and sex was just a duty. She never wanted to leave me though because she loves me and values what we had accomplished. but she felt that I was looking for any excuse to not be with her like mowing the grass for the neighbors or cleaning the garage when it wasn’t needed. Then came the OM who gave her the attention I didn’t, told her the words I didn’t, he was willing to spend time with her to listen and talk to her. he was wishing her good morning and good night every day while I never did. He gave her flowers without any reason, I did not.

It's typical for cheaters to rewrite the marital history and/or remember things as worse than they were. That's all part of the mental gymnastics a WS engages while giving themselves permission to cheat.

But let's say, for argument's sake, that you weren't a very attentive husband... the cheating is still 100% about HER. Nothing that you did (or didn't do) caused her to throw away her own integrity or to turn her back on what should have been her core values of fidelity and honesty. And nothing that she did during the affair was targeted to solving the problem of getting more attention from YOU.

But is getting attention from you really THE "problem"? Let's say that years ago, you had said "yes" to marriage counseling. Would you still be here now?

Of course, none of us have a crystal ball, but I would say 'yes', because what we do know about cheaters is that many, if not most, of them can't self-validate. What that means is that they're already NOT healthy partners. In cheaters, what we typically see is that even if they're getting validation at home, it's not enough. When validation comes from your spouse after many years of marriage, it's like getting it from your mom or dad. They're supposed to think you're wonderful. You're not getting the same rush, and it's the "rush" that keeps cheaters cheating. The need for external validation is a hole that can never be fully plugged. Remember the "biochemical cocktail" we talked about.

Your WW's explanation was appallingly non-introspective. Why does she need to be externally validated? Why is she entitled to prioritize that validation ahead of her marriage and ahead of YOUR physical and mental health? She's shifting the blame, and no... I don't think that's some kind of nefarious bit of manipulation. It's worse than that. I think she BELIEVES her own nonsense.

Marriage counseling is NOT the answer. As others have pointed out, the blame will be focused on your marriage rather than on your cheater. But marriages don't cheat. People do. It's your WW who has the problem and it's your WW who needs to remediate it. R starts with two HEALTHY individuals of similar core values. Your WW needs to see a good IC, one who won't take any bullshit off her, and she needs to dig deep to figure out what in her character is capable of saying "yes" to perfidy. Then she needs to dig a little deeper and find the hidden ugly trait which explains "why": entitlement? narcissistic tendencies? grandiosity? personality disorder? etc.

I would suggest that if you're considering R, maybe go for a 6-month separation, where you can begin your own healing process and she can dig into IC. If it's a "therapeutic" separation, you might consider regular meetings to discuss progress; monthly, bimonthly, or even weekly if you can stomach it. There would be no "dating" or contact with the OM, and her tech should be open to checking. "Checking" is not snooping. It's an opportunity for the WS to prove that they're trustworthy. Every time a BS "checks" and finds nothing, it's a drop of trust added to a really empty bucket.

Currently, your WW does NOT "get it". Her reasoning is still "wayward". And frankly, you just found out a couple of weeks ago. It takes time when we've been traumatized to figure out what it is we really want. As we've discussed, you're still a young man. You may decide that you want your freedom. Alternatively, your WW might buckle down, work really hard, and remediate the holes in her character. It's difficult to get a real feel for your options though when your cheater is underfoot giving you crocodile tears and snot-bubbled promises to change.

Think it over. Time appears to be on your side.

Strength as you process.

ETA:

I’m not the type of guy who buys flowers just because it’s Thursday and I hate sending text messages, but I would give my life for my family. I told her. if god forbid, she was hit by bus and was handicapped for the rest of her life I wouldn’t hesitate a second to carry her and take care of her as long as I’m alive. I reminded her that I cook and clean the house not because I like doing it but because I love my family.

Remember that you're already good enough, and you always have been. A person who wants to change you is trying to extract value from you, not appreciating the already good man you are.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 2:35 PM, July 24th (Friday)]

Michigan posted 7/24/2020 14:51 PM

Marriage counseling is NOT the answer. As others have pointed out, the blame will be focused on your marriage rather than on your cheater.

ChamomileTea

The general goal of marriage counseling is to improve the marriage. When infidelity is added to the mix the goal remains the same.

The quickest and most efficient way to accomplish that is to get the BS to overlook the affair.

If you get counseling at all, you both need your own individual councilor.

thatbpguy posted 7/24/2020 14:52 PM

yes she showed me, she said the A is over now, I said only because you were busted and dumped...

True. It's a fine line, but she is sorry for being outed and not for the betrayal. She was having the time of her life and would have continued without guilt indefinitely. I support R, but in this case I doubt she has really true & genuine remorse and shame. She was simply outed and doesn't like the consequences.

thatbpguy posted 7/24/2020 14:54 PM

we must have spent a whole hour or close to it talking just about that incident. She said that she had no intention to cokhold me or disrespected me but she understands why i feel bad about it. I told her that his comment were clear from a man stand point and as a woman she would not understand it...

I went back in this thread and read their texts. She wasn't following along, she was right there with him. That's a lie on her part.

Organic2003 posted 7/24/2020 15:05 PM

2- she was apologetic and owned up the A, she never said that me ignoring her made her cheat, in fact she spent the first 10 minutes explaining how horrible and wrong cheating is, and what she was saying is that she felt the the OM interest slowly filled up the gap and before she knew she found herself trapped and struggled to break it off. she admitted she knew all along it was wrong. she did admit that A would have been still going on. and that every time she broke up with him he would just pour his heat out to her till she gives in.
3- she just told me about 30 minutes ago that OM has been reaching out to her since Monday using a different phone number. According to her she told him it's over but like before, he is texting and calling trying to convince her. I told her if it's really over between them all she had to do is to block his ass, she said she would.

These are good things, I hope she can follow through and get to the core why's so she can find integrity with or without you.

Humans are very good at justifying and rationalizing there own behavior. She needs to get far beyond that and get some real counseling like ChamomileTea suggested.

She needs to hate what she and the POSAP are. She needs to be completely rid of him and that might be very hard for her to do. She will likely miss him and pine away for his attention.

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