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Here We Go Again...

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Hurtmyheart posted 2/1/2020 16:55 PM

Lifeexploded, I really don't get your WH jealousy and obsessive behavior or for that matter my WH jealousy and obsessive behavior too. I can see parallels here, except my WH has put the work in to better himself.

I find it annoying because both yours and my WH are the ones with similar behaviors, drinking, my WH had sex with one COW women on 2 different occasions and an emotional affair with another COW women but also a lot of checking out and flirting with other OW. Not what I would call healthy mature grown up man, husband and father behavior.

I'm further along with all this crap and my thought that comes to mind is of course it has been their own insecurities and behavior all along that has created this mess in the first place.

Although my WH has gone through a lot of good changes, I will never give my full trust back to him.

Where are you at in this process? What are your own goals today? It just seems that you are dealing with a lot of unnecessary chaos. Your WH seems extremely immature and childlike. My WH was that way at one point also. Alcoholism does a number on the brain, you know.

Have you thought about attending Alanon or another 12 step program? Alcoholism affects the whole family. It's a family disease.

I know this all sucks, it really does.

Hurtmyheart posted 2/1/2020 17:34 PM

I have another thought I want to share with you, Lifeexploded. Alcoholics have a tendency to want to be controlling. Do you think your WH is thinking that he is losing control of you? His behaviors are controlling.

Just be careful because he is sounding more and more unstable to me.

Lifeexploded posted 2/2/2020 11:24 AM

We are 4 years past the first dday. Long history but basically things seemed good at first. He was disgnosed sa and was doing the things he was supposed to do. I noted slips here and there. After our hysterical bonding baby was born, something just snapped. I realized that if i dont control his recovery there was no recovery so i stopped. I have caught him lying about stealing money from our emergency fund, watching sexy stuff online, drinking, and messaging other women. I am now indifferent and fantasizing about the day I can kick him out. It just wont be for some time. My financial situation isnt there yet and i want to wait until our kids are older. Im not worried about me going to alanon. I have broken free of codependency and healed a great deal. I think he is seeing me become more independent; I dont follow him around like a puppy and I really dont give him the attention he craves because i no longer want to "fix" him. I think its really setting him off balance. He is controlling. Yesterday i went outside to take the trash out and he CALLED ME to find out where i was.

So today I was checking his texts from the weekend he was messaging women. Not sure why, I typically dont obsess or anything. Long story short, I saw a text I hadnt noticed before at 12:30 a.m. I went to my att account to cross reference the number, and discovered that all records before jan 20th (texts and fb messages were on the 18) were not there. Just gone. Even texts sent to me or our kids.. I chatted with a rep and they said there is no way to delete them so either it was a glitch or he was texting through a wifi connection. I dont see any evidence of him connecting to wifi though so i am not sure what happened. The rep said to check back later and see if it had refreshed and if not i can call back on monday to have them look more into it. Any ideas about what might be going on here?

Hurtmyheart posted 2/2/2020 14:41 PM

Lifeexploded, please re-read your last posts. Several contradictions. I don't have the ability to highlight from my phone, otherwise I would. One moment you say that you don't care anymore, the next moment you are checking his history. It makes us crazy! Or is crazy making. It's a terrible place to be in.

I know you love your WH and would love to see him take responsibility for his addictions and work on his own wellness and healing. I think he isn't ready for it but I agree that you are on a good path
to the 180. It's so hard because you have to still live with him and deal with his sick behaviors. But you have so many other things more things to think about!

There is a pamphlet through AA I think it is called The Merry Go Round Named Denial. I just googled it. Reading this is what woke me up to my WH addiction. We all have a role in the addiction. It's so sick. I think I was a fixer also. I don't exactly remember. But it set me on the path out of denial and working to get emotionally better. It's a process though. I don't think we ever become ourselves again.

Your kid's are affected by this, as I'm sure you know. I feel sorry for your son who was with his dad on the hunting trip.

The only way I know to check phone records is online. I don't bother with any of that stuff, not even looking at his phone. My gut tells me things anyway. I just go with my gut. I feel if WH is going to cheat or have unfaithful behaviors again, he's going to do it. I have better ways of spending my time.

ChamomileTea posted 2/2/2020 18:43 PM

I dont see any evidence of him connecting to wifi though so i am not sure what happened.

It's been a couple of years since I've had an iPhone, but imessages don't show on your bill either. Back then, my WH also had an iPhone so I went into his settings and turned imessage off. Then his texts started showing on the bill again.

Cooley2here posted 2/2/2020 19:19 PM

................and the wisdom to know the difference.

Lifeexploded posted 2/3/2020 08:11 AM

One moment you say that you don't care anymore, the next moment you are checking his history.

I hear you, I really do. I understand what you're saying. When say I don't care, I mean I'm not going to confront him about it or ask him to behave anymore. I am done begging my husband for his faithfulness and honesty. Hence, my signature line. There's a few reasons for the continued checking. For one, it's a habit that is 4 years in the making. For two, I want to know because I don't want to feel like a fool again. For years this man was running around behind my back flirting with women, texting, affairs, meetups, porn, etc. I thought something was up but I had no idea to what extent. I just don't want to be completely blindsided again. Plus, when we do inevitably divorce, I want to have proof that I had good reason.

There is a pamphlet through AA I think it is called The Merry Go Round Named Denial.

I will see if I can find this. Thank you.

Your kid's are affected by this, as I'm sure you know. I feel sorry for your son who was with his dad on the hunting trip.

Three of our sons were on the trip. The 14 year old is the first one I spoke to about the drinking. I had an opportunity to speak with the oldest (16) on Friday. I don't remember how I brought it up but I did ask him how it made him feel. He said that he felt betrayed by his Dad because he was expected to keep this secret from me and he didn't like it. Mature words from a kid his age. It was hard for me not to cry. But like with his brother, I just told him to remember this when he has a wife/kids one day.

my WH also had an iPhone

This particular phone is an android (Samsung Galaxy s10e). His work phone is an iphone but I can't see anything he does on it. I have the accountability app on his personal phone, which is an android. I'll have to see if there is some sort of setting that prevents text records from showing up with att.

Lifeexploded posted 2/5/2020 08:31 AM

I agree that you are on a good path
to the 180

I am actually avoiding the 180 because I don't want to rock the boat. If I do the 180 then he wants to know what's wrong. He won't let up. We have to have a discussion about what's wrong. He threatens divorce, which I am not ready for. It's just easier to pretend everything is fine. If he can do that, so can I.

Lifeexploded posted 2/5/2020 09:00 AM

I take that back. I think I was understanding the 180 wrong. The last time I read it was four years ago and I was in a much different place. That is pretty much what I am doing. I am largely indifferent. Friendly but I don't instigate conversations, don't talk about the future, don't argue. I do my own thing as much as possible and as much as possible act like I am not married to him at all. (Not like pursuing relationships or anything, I'm just not pursuing our marital relationship or working on it at all.

Last night he lied to his pastor about not being able to go to men's group because I'm sick and he had to make dinner. The one good thing about him is he recently started this thing where are alternate weeks on who does the grocery shopping (online) and cooking. I'm not sure where this came from but I'm assuming he wants to learn how so that when we divorce he will know how. Anyway, this is his week. Except on Tuesdays I cook dinner no matter what and on Mondays he always cooks dinner because I have a thing I go to. So I was expecting to cook. I had an easy meal planned because I am sick, he didn't lie about that. (Side note, if you have an HEB nearby check out their fully cooked asian chicken products in the freezer section. YUM.) He didn't have to skip class so he could make dinner. He just wanted to skip class. Then he bitched about having to cook and procrastinated until the end of time.

Hurtmyheart posted 2/5/2020 14:21 PM

Hi Lifeexploded! I read your post and wanted some time to think about it.

The 180 is for you. It's a way to separate yourself from the WS and sounds like you are doing that the best way you know how because you still need to be mom and take care of the family.

I feel sad for you. You have a family. Your kid's rely on both you and your WH. Problem is WH isn't or hasn't lived up to his responsibilities as husband or father. All the responsibility has fallen on your shoulders. Not fair.

I grew up with three brothers who were sever drug addicts/alcoholics. Most attention was based around their negativity. I don't blame them though.This was the direction they chose for their problems in life. Anyway, my other siblings and I were forgotten because my brothers needed the attention more than we did. Not true but this is how it went.

Our house was full of constant chaos, chasing down my brothers because they were ODing on heroine. Or they were in trouble with the police and we also had to deal with the violent mood swings due to coming down off the high's. There were 8 siblings but most of us were ignored and did not get our needs met.

When I look back, I feel sad. Although I went through something similar with my WS, I feel I was able to dodge a bigger bullet. My WH broke his addiction and got help. This has been a lifesaver for my marriage and family.

My mom and brothers were never able to break the cycle of addiction. My dad died first years ago, then my mom passed away 7.5 years ago. One of my brothers passed almost 5 years ago due to his alcoholism and drug addiction and one more brother passed away 4 years ago from his addictions. My brothers addictions got the best of them and they also left a trail of destruction behind. We were all affected growing up in the constant chaos and it never got better.

I have two kid's and they were also affected by my WH behavior. My WH hurt all of us. Although my son is doing well in his career, he managed to find a girlfriend who has issues and a drinking problem. He seems to have one also. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

I don't say anything to my son about his lifestyle. Today, my WH and I try to lead by being better examples. Hopefully my son will wake up and realize drinking all the time leads to a dead end road.

I hope you find a better future for you and your kid's. At this point in time it sounds like your WH does not want to change his ways or make better choices for the sake of his marriage and kid's. This choice needs to be all on him. No one can force him to find a better and more positive path in life. He just doesn't get it.

Lifeexploded posted 2/6/2020 08:06 AM

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Reading your story made me so sad. Addiction is terrible and hurts so many innocent people.

Lifeexploded posted 2/6/2020 08:16 AM

Oh, I almost forgot. Last night he was making fajitas for dinner (read, I was making fajitas for dinner because he was playing dumb like he didn't know how and I enjoy tenderizing the chicken breasts with the hammer for obvious reasons). Anyway, I get done cutting everything up and I realize we are low on shredded cheese and the tortillas I bought have mold on them. So I start sauteeing the vegs in the pan, tell him to watch them and I run out to the store. We live in the small town and the store is one mile away, I run in and grab what I need and as I am pulling out of the parking lot he calls to see what is taking so long. I assure him I'm on my way back and then check the app on his phone to see if he checked the map to make sure I was at the store .... and yes he did. I couldn't have been gone for ... oh wait, I can check and see. Hang on, let me grab my phone...

I left our house at 6:33 p.m. It took me 11 minutes to get to the store. Not sure why it took that long but I guess I hit every red light. He called me at 6:49, 5 MINUTES after I arrived at the store. Took me 7 minutes to get back home. The entire trip took me 21 minutes. This shit is so annoying.

Lifeexploded posted 2/16/2020 08:19 AM

I'm going to cross post this in I Can Relate.

Well, the cat's out of the bag much sooner that I had wanted. Yesterday evening I was watching a show on my phone and the characters were discussing what it's like to discuss sex with your teenager. So SAWH says "I guess I need to get tested to make sure the vasectomy worked." A long conversation ensued where I had to tell him that we won't be having sex anymore. I think our marriage is past saving. I just can't fake that, you know? I did finally let him know that I know what he's been up to after he swore he has been 100% faithful and has not done anything wrong. Even after he realized I knew, he said "I only messaged Kim and asked her what divorce is like." Like that's ok? And let's not forget all of the other women he friend requested and multiple women he messaged and the few he had a conversation with. He was trying to gaslight me and try to make it seem like he didn't do anything wrong. It was unbelievable really. I calmly explained that I do want to divorce but that I do want to wait. He was mad because I've known that I want a divorce for a few weeks and didn't tell him and acted like everything was normal. But let's not forget the years he cheated on me and didn't tell me while having babies with me. I explained the logistics of finances and that both of us would be pretty broke which isn't any fun and isn't fair to the kids. I told him my number one priority is the kids and while, yes, we both deserve to be in a loving marriage, it's most important to make sure the kids are healthy and happy. I told him I would rather wait until our 2 year old goes to school. She can start full day Pre-K here in a year and a half. I would have much more time to focus on my business and would be able to build my business between now and then. We really didn't talk about it as much as I thought. He spent most of the evening with his head in his hands and then went to bed early after doing some research on 50 mile races for some reason. I guess he's going to really throw himself into running to keep himself sane, which is fine with me. He'll be home less. He actually seems stunned that I wasn't going to put up with this. I guess if this was his first slip up that would be different, but with his history it's completely unacceptable and to me, it's a sign of what's to come. And even more so, he can't admit that it wasn't wrong. I didn't mention the drinking. I'm just done. I feel sad for him. I don't think he's ever been happy in his entire life and as long as he keeps looking for happiness outside himself in other people he never will be.

I am REALLY scared because at this point I don't know what's going to happen next. I don't know if he will be content with IHS or will push for a divorce now. I haven't spoken with him today yet. If he does push for divorce now, I will be really screwed.

I did run fonelab on his work phone and nothing showed up. I don't know if it was only pulling current texts off the phone, if he never texted her, or if it's just been too long since they were deleted to recover. Oh, well. It doesn't really matter at this point I suppose.

nekonamida posted 2/16/2020 17:06 PM

Even if everything you found is all there is, it doesn't really matter. He's still lying because he knows it was wrong. He's a SA and he KNOWS this was slippery slope territory. Don't let him make you think for one second that you're wrong for being done. He's a ticking time bomb of a liar fishing around for OW at best and a full on trainwreck of infidelity at worst. There's no winning with that.

Hurtmyheart posted 2/16/2020 18:48 PM

Lifeexploded, I'm so glad that you spoke up to your WH and told him your truth and that you have no desire to continue down the path of destruction with him anymore. Your story is so sad and hurtful and he doesn't even get that it was HIS inappropriate behavior caused this in the first place.

Good for you to stand up for yourself.

Lifeexploded posted 2/17/2020 09:27 AM

I feel like I am completely losing my mind. SAWH and I have been going back and forth. First we decided we would divorce in 1.5 years when our youngest goes to pre-k, then 2.5 years when our oldest graduates from high school (he goes to a private school so getting rid of that expense would be beneficial), then he started looking at real estate.

We had a long conversation about it today. When discussing the women he messaged, he told me three different reasons for doing it:
#1 He only messaged Kim to find out what divorce was like.
#2 He messaged women to get my attention.
#3 He messaged women to get attention from them because he doesn't get it from me.

All bullshit obviously. He managed to "convince" me to give it another shot and he is going to try to "fix himself". I just need to buy some time. I keep thinking one thing and then I switch. I don't even know if I'm making any sense.

I did actually message "Kim" and I'm talking to her right now.

Me: "So what made you think it was ok to be texting my husband?"
K: "Um he text me first and when he called I just gave him advice to make ya'll better."
Me: "Why on earth wouldn't you tell me? Don't you think I deserved to know what my husband was doing?"
K: "I don't like to get in the middle of things I am sorry I just told him y'all are great together and make beautiful babies. Y'all need to work things and plus the last time I did that the girl thought I was after her husband. I have no interest. I am so sorry but I don't like to interfere."
M: Is there any chance you could tell me what he said to you? Did you get the idea that he was trying to start something with you? We have a long history of infidelity (him, not me) and I'm trying to figure out where we stand.
K: He just says he doesn't think you have any interest in him anymore. I asked if he did the cute things like when ya'll were first dating and he said yes and you don't want to. I asked if he did things around the house and he said yes. It doesn't impress you."
Me: "LOL That's hilarious. This is basically how he started his first affair. Has he contacted you since then?"
K: "No he has not. I told him first, I don't date married men I have enough drama with my ex I don't want any more. And I told him he was not my type."
M: "Ok thank you will you please let me know if he does again I asked him for a divorce because of this. He is begging to try to make it work but he never even told me ya'll spoke on the phone. So. I don't know what to think."
K: "I will let you know. I am sorry."
Me: "So you must have gotten the idea that he wanted to pursue you since you told him you don't date married men?"
K: "Yes."
Me. "Do you remember what he said?"
K: "Not really it was really late i remember (friend) and I were coming back from mason he asked if he could text me again or call."
Me: "So after your conversation he asked if he could text or call you again but didn't contact you again?"
k: "No he has not contacted me after that night?"

What is wrong with me? Why do I in one minute think maybe he is going to pull his head out of his ass and then the next I realize he's hopeless. I don't know what I want. I just want to be free of worrying about his cheating. But I don't want to be away from my kids like AT ALL.

Please talk some sense into me.

He called me and I couldn't stand it so I confronted him about his phone call with K. He tried to say that he had told me that the spoke on the phone (not just text). That's a complete lie. He said he asked her what divorce is like (not the whole truth). He said he did it because he wasn't getting attention from me. I literally YELLED at him "THAT'S NOT AN EXCUSE TO TALK TO ANOTHER WOMAN!!! IT IS NEVER OK TO DISCUSS YOUR MARRIAGE WITH ANOTHER WOMAN!! WHAT IN THE FUCK WERE YOU THINKING?"

Hurtmyheart posted 2/17/2020 17:49 PM

Crazy making. Insanity, when you keep doing the same thing expecting different results.

Alcoholism is a progressive disease. It affects the whole family. As long as your WH continues down the same path, there is really no hope for a happy and healthy marriage, or even co-existence.

Nothing changes if nothing changes. It's up to you to change YOUR path. You can not change anyone, only yourself. Your WH is responsible for his change. I don't see it. Only empty promises.

Read up on Codependency.

I strongly suggest you look into Alanon, Lifeexploded. Best thing I ever did for myself. Go and listen to others talk. You will begin to hear a theme. And therapy. Got me out of codependent thinking and I started to learn to think for myself instead of allowing my WH to control me.

Like one of the AA/Alanon Sponsors said to me, your husband is full of shit. He knows that you will give into him as long as he tells you what you want to hear. He will try? Really? So thoughtful of him. Let him try by showing you the right actions. So far he is a liar. He is hurting you more than know. Your WH is emotionally and psychologically damaging you beyond repair. I remember when my WH had the same actions as yours currently does; staring at, smiling at, talking to and taking an interest in other women, etc. and then lying about it and saying he didn't do it or that I was acting that way towards other men or I didn't love him. The list goes on. Such a lie and so disgusting.

Lifeexploded, your WH will pay for what he has done to you and your kid's. The karma bus is coming for him. His excessive drinking alone may cause his organs irreversible damage. I remember those day's. I feel for you.

I hope others will soon come along and give you input. There is a way out of this mess, you know.

The1stWife posted 2/18/2020 04:31 AM

Lifeexploded (great name choice BTW).

Stop putting your faith and hope in him. Your recent exchange with “K” is eye opening as it shows you so much about your H. He’s lying to you and himself. He’s not stopping cheating (for so many reasons). He’s got serious problems.

Stop. Trying. To. Fix. Him.

Instead make YOU a priority. Get individual counseling for you. Al-anon is a great suggestion from another poster.

Stop being his wife. Start to disengage. Get your plan B in place (as you previously mentioned) so you are ready when the day comes and you decide to leave. Separate bank accounts. Life insurance taken care of. Money in the bank for you. Health insurance covered. Mediator lined up (or attorney).

Let him fix himself.

And stop 🛑 stop 🛑 stop 🛑 having stupid pointless discussions with him. He doesn’t need time. He doesn’t need to lie to you and himself any longer. His words mean NOTHING. By continuing to engage in this way you are prolonging your pain.

My H was begging me to reconcile. I was done listening to his words. I finally told him it was up to him to turn this around and I was not helping him or talking about it. He was on his own. The only thing that mattered was his actions.

I hope this helps you. Get out if this insanity you are dealing with. Stop engaging him. Stop allowing him to lie to you. Yiu will start to feel better once you do.

Lifeexploded posted 2/18/2020 08:32 AM

Thank you 1stwife. I know these things but I need a kick in the butt sometimes. I think I'm in the disbelief stage. A part of me always hoped he would be the man I wanted him to be. It hurts to realize that he just isn't that. Today I told him he needs to go have his semen tested to make sure that his vasectomy worked because he doesn't need to get some random girl pregnant. He said he doesn't have any interest in other women; that he just wants to take care of the kids. Which is exactly what I SAID except take out women and put in men. Except I can see your friends list on Facebook you idiot. Already got two new friends on Facebook since yesterday. I have begun telling close friends and a few family members that I can trust. We agreed to tell the kids this summer so they will have time to process without it affecting school.

He said in a roundabout way that he doesn't want the kids to know what he did. I think they should know, no details, but something simple like "Daddy hasn't been 100% faithful to Mommy and that's not ok. Absolutely none of this is your fault and we are going to try to make this divorce as easy as possible for you kids." I don't know. I have time to work on that and I am definitely open to suggestions.

He knows I can't support myself right now. I mean, with child support, yeah, but it would really fucking suck for both of us. I'd rather make more money first. Right now I make 12K and he makes 75K. I have a right to 40% of his income for child support which would put me at 42K and him at 45K. We are working on an agreement for weekends that are his weekends to watch the kids and I can go out of town to source for inventory (I'm an ebay/amazon seller) and he'll watch the younger kids.

We are planning to do the divorce ourselves to save money. We know multiple couples who have done so. HOWEVER I will be keeping a close eye on things and if it starts to look like he's going to be unreasonable then we'll just have to get lawyers. Neither of us want to spend the money.

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