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Need help with timeline “why”

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MustardSeedFaith posted 12/22/2019 13:28 PM

This is my first post. I have known about and read SI for quite sometime. My wife, BeingheldbyJesus, has been on here for 4 years. She got on right after DDay. I have managed to do just about everything wrong you can do in these last 4 years. Made 2 attempts at a timeline but am still missing the “why” answer to that question. I trickle truthed before coming clean with things I should have told her earlier. I tried to convince her I was telling the truth without a lie detector test. I took it and passed but tainted by how long I made her wait for it. Today is our 29th anniversary which is obviously a trigger for her now. I come here now looking for help. I owe her the finish to the timeline and answer to the “why” question. To better help you understand me, I am a narcissist. I have had anger issues and taken some of those out on her. I fired the MOW but didn’t send a no contact. The OBS found out about the affair and sent one 9 months later after my wife told him. She obviously has a problem with the fact I didn’t send one. I have had no contact with her at all since it ended. My excuse was lame, just wanted her to go away and not even make that contact with her. I am to that point where I do not want to be a screw up anymore. I need to finish these things that I should have long ago. Any and all advice would be welcome. I just want to reconcile with BS and fix what I have screwed up. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

WalkinOnEggshelz posted 12/22/2019 17:59 PM

Welcome.

Have you read “How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair”? That’s a good place to start.

As far as your whys are concerned, start at the surface and work your way down. What did you tell yourself to make it ok to cross that line? Chances are the first answer will be rather shallow, but if you keep asking why to each answer you can start getting deep enough to find the grit of it all.

It’s not easy work. You will often derail and go different directions. The help of an IC can be invaluable. Journaling your why’s can also be helpful.

When you get stuck, post here. We’ve all been through it and can help point you in the right direction.

Zugzwang posted 12/23/2019 09:01 AM

My excuse was lame, just wanted her to go away and not even make that contact with her.

What was the real reason why you didn't want to send a NC letter? The selfish reason.?

EvolvingSoul posted 12/23/2019 20:54 PM

Hi there MustardSeedFaith,

Welcome to SI.

To better help you understand me, I am a narcissist.
Have you been professionally diagnosed as a narcissist?

It sounds like lying has been your go-to coping mechanism for avoiding what you don't want or getting what you want for a very long time. If you really do want to change, then that has to be the first thing to go: the lies you have told and the lies you still feel compelled to tell.

So here is a question for you: Is there anything at all you are still lying about? Do you still lie about anything at all, even things that are trivial and unrelated to the affair? Things like "I was late because of traffic" when in reality you did not leave enough time to deal with traffic you knew was likely to happen.

If you are thinking about lying in response to this question, then that is where you need to start on your why.

I bumped a good post up to the top for you entitled "The Process of Discovering our True Why's" by DaddyDom. It might be a help to you.

Proceed with conviction and valor. Best to you from a fellow EvolvingSoul.

MustardSeedFaith posted 12/24/2019 11:01 AM

WalkingOnEggshelz, thanks for your reply. I did read the book, but like everything else, I was slow to do the things I needed to. I found the book yesterday and think it would be good to go back and read again. We have been in MC since Dec 2015 and during this last year for about 4 months I went on my own to work on my issues and now we are back going to counseling together. I have started in the last few days just trying to write down thoughts in just sentences when I think about them to try and get the real why out.

MustardSeedFaith posted 12/24/2019 11:06 AM

Zugzwang, thanks for your reply and question. The selfish reason for not sending the NC letter was that the affair stopped in July 2015 but my BS didn’t find out til Nov 2015. For selfish reasons, yes, I wanted nothing to do with contacting her because we had not had any contact since right after it ended. What I have learned is that was the completely wrong thing to do because that was my opportunity to tell her how wrong I was about things I had said and done against my BS and that she was not to blame, I was to blame and still am for everything that happened. A lot of things I could have said and should have and once again I screwed that up.

MustardSeedFaith posted 12/24/2019 11:12 AM

EvolvingSoul, thanks for your reply. Yes, I have been professionally diagnosed as a narcissist. Looks as though it has been an issue my entire life. As I found out more about it and look back through the years I see what it has done to me and my family. I am determined to change and overcome what has been an issue in my life for a long long time. I recently updated a story to my wife from 30+ years ago because I was still not telling her the whole truth about it. It was stupid really,, not about infidelity but held back stupid stuff. It obviously hurt my trying to regain her trust but I did tell. There aren’t anymore lies I haven’t told her, but I’m trying to finish this timeline with more info, in between info if that makes sense. I have told her about the trips, sex, etc but working on filling in anything else. Thanks for moving up the DaddyDom post. Like everything else, I have read it before but need to read it again with better conviction this time.

Zugzwang posted 12/24/2019 14:32 PM

So, you were afraid the AP would tell your wife if you did?

2timesunfaithful posted 12/24/2019 16:59 PM

MSF,
Another book that really helped me get it after d-day, was "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass, it will help a wayward dissect the whys.
4 year late is still better than never. I could have written your post, I'm out just past 5 years since my affair went physical. I ahve massive anger issues too. Initially, I too did not get it. Most assuredly, I did not get it for years. I'm not a frequent poster, Zugzwang and others far surpass my advice. However, I do know about not getting it, and then trying to later. At this point, 4 years later, a NC letter to the AP would cause more harm than good, so write the letter and show it to your BW.

Be honest, or your keenly aware BW will smell a lie. The betrayed spouses on this site can tell you they have a "spidey sense" when their WS is producing BS. Do you like acronyms?
Put all the detail you can remember into the NC after 4 years, and show it to your BW. Trying to show her you care after the fact is bad, but more damaging is to procrastinate, or hope your BW has "forgotten the pain" I assure you she has not.
Many BS's still feel the pain 20 years or more later. 5 years later my BW still thinks about it every day.

Rugsweeping is the common term on this site, and you have done that very well, apparently, its time to clean out what's under that rug.
Especially this time of year, start the New Year with some empathy and honesty.

Good luck and Happy Holidays,
2tu

Edited to add author of book.

[This message edited by 2timesunfaithful at 5:01 PM, December 24th (Tuesday)]

Need2Do posted 12/24/2019 20:34 PM

Seasons Greetings MSF,
I’m not in a position to offer advice myself, but I would recommend reading DaddyDom’s post ‘Things I had to accept’, it helped me put a couple more pieces of my puzzle together so that I can move out of the ‘stuck’. The book ‘Not Just Friends’ that has been recommended, I have read and agree, very informative and insightful.
As you are aware, the people here know where you are coming from, they have been there themselves, take their advice, it’s far better than therapy...
Good journey.

MustardSeedFaith posted 12/26/2019 10:32 AM

Zugzwang, let me see if i can clarify. My BW thought i had just gotten too close to AP, not a PA. She told me to fire her and I did. I had only 1 contact with her, 3 weeks after that, about severance agreement, then had no other contact with her. Wife found out it was PA after seeing old emails in my computer 4 months later. Then I didn't send NC because I selfishly thought since we hadn't had any further contact, a NC wasn't needed and I just wanted AP to stay gone. I am such a coward sometimes and I know that was definitely one of them. I know now how wrong that was because my BS needed to know and see that I had told her to go away and stay away. Also, my AP was stalking my BS on a social media site and it was creepy, made me sick and that was another opportunity I missed to confront about that. It was also an opportunity I missed to tell AP how I felt about my BS and that nothing I said or did with AP was real feelings. My real feelings are for my BS. Hope that all makes sense.

[This message edited by MustardSeedFaith at 10:48 AM, December 26th (Thursday)]

MustardSeedFaith posted 12/26/2019 10:37 AM

2timesunfaithful, thank you for your reply. I did read that book but I didnt do a good job of putting what I read to good use. I think after reading some of these replys that I need to go back and reread everything again. You always get something more out of it the second time. I do like your idea of writing the NC now even though I can't send. I had started one a long while back, good excuse to update and finish it and give it to my BS. And yes, for the future, honesty and empathy are a the top of my list. Thanks again.

MustardSeedFaith posted 12/26/2019 10:39 AM

need2do, your screen name could be mine for sure. There is still a lot I need to do. Thanks for the reference to "things I need to accept". I will find it and read along with his other post that was referenced as well.

Zugzwang posted 12/26/2019 13:17 PM

Yes it makes sense. I think NC letters should always be sent. It helped my BS to heal. We had to send ours because my APs were doing the whole, "His wife is a bitch and overreacting, nothing happened, she is lying thing" at my stores. They also were doing a ton of fishing. Calling me at work. I stopped the affair before my wife found out, and I left it on good terms... the whole if things were different in another life and it was nice to know you, I wish we could have stayed friends. That left the door open to my APs thinking it was my wife's fault we couldn't keep in touch and that I thought the world of them. That didn't help close the book or help my wife to heal knowing these woman were walking around thinking they mattered to me when they didn't and in truth were disposable. Clear NC letters help everyone, including APs to move on and get the truth and reality of it all. Where our hearts lie with our BS and that the APs mean nothing. That we regret ever being with them. After the letters, there was nothing but crickets from APs. They got the hint their game was over.

BeingheldbyJesus posted 1/6/2020 10:41 AM

Thank you to all of you who responded to my WH trying to help him. I appreciate it. However, just as usual, he just cannot keep up. I watched him respond a few times and then he stopped. You get out of it what you put in it…. When he feels threatened, he will pull out all the stops for a week or two trying to “save” HIMSELF but then stops. It has been a pattern with him dealing with issues our entire 37 year relationship.

So what caused him to finally post after lurking here for years? Well, it is simple. I have pulled away. I see no hope. He hasn’t done the work necessary to help me heal. He has tried to “fix it”, as usual, in his own lame ways. He claims, "I want to", "I'm gonna", "I should", but never truly acts unless it is acts of service that keep him busy. He is wasting my time. He has never worked on his whys and HOW. In the beginning, his "fix it" was taking me on weekend getaways. I explained to him that was just him getting to do something enjoyable not doing the real work on himself. He wouldn’t sit down and work on a REAL timeline with feelings and all. The marriage counselor tried to tell him that he needed to put feelings in the timeline. The MC has backed me in everything I have requested. Something else happened recently that has put him in place. A male facebook friend noticed that I had changed my status to “it’s complicated” and removed my WH from “in a relationship with”. My WH killed our marriage. I am not going to pretend to be in a relationship with him. I’m not going to cheat, but I am just not going to keep the mask that things are going ok now. Anyway, that friend put hearts on some of my pictures and then messaged me that he has always had a crush on me and now he is waiting on his divorce. Apparently, his wife cheated. He said that he was a good listener if I ever wanted to “talk” with him. I don’t check messenger often and don’t get notifications for new messages. I have several unread because people send stupid videos and those stupid chain letters all the time so I don’t know when I have a new message. Anyway, when I finally saw the message, I told WH immediately and let him read it. I had not even read the whole thing. He got very angry. Hmmmmm. It’s ok for him to send messages to a very married employee but not for another guy to assume I have divorced and message me. This guy doesn’t even live close to our state. Anyway, WH feels threatened. Another man has now told me he finds me very beautiful- not the “most beautiful woman in the world” and “dreamgirl” that WH said to AP…. BUT now he sees I could find someone else. And I am not putting up with his garbage. I have options now. He did this. He opened the door. He didn’t want me and hasn’t fought for me. However, when I tell him that I want to divorce, he tells me that we are not going to divorce. He will never let me go. And the threats of suicide.... He treats me like an object…. He just doesn’t get it. He is suddenly rereading books and working on some kind of timeline. I can’t imagine what that will be because when I ask him how he felt about this or that, he has no answers. No feelings. He is just a cold, unfeeling person unless it is feeling sorry for himself. He posted because I asked him why he never has and how could he expect help and support by not posting.

A few times during triggers, he has even said, “Why are you being such a b****?” Seriously? I don’t recall him ever saying such a thing to me before his A. I am not putting up with that now. I am sick of his lack of empathy. I have put up with his ridiculous ego for all of these years and this is what I get.

We have been together since I was 13, he 14. We were first and onlies. I thought it was special and treasured it. Well, now I know he didn’t. You safeguard what you treasure.

I have given up on him. As we head into this fifth year of the season of his A, I am just done. These past 4 years have shown me that he is not capable of doing the work. He has not shown that I am the most important part of his life. He never even wrote a NC to her continuing to put her feelings ahead of my own. He cannot communicate and does not meet my emotional needs. Quality time is my love language and he cannot meet that need. I am lonely. Lonelier than I have ever been and I was lonely for years before his A. I am tired. I am 50 years old and cannot afford to waste any more of my precious time on his issues. I see he is incapable of real love. He is just not reconciliation material.

BeingheldbyJesus posted 1/6/2020 10:50 AM

I also want to add about his lack of transparency....

I found out about his A because he left his laptop home one morning. I had already caught an EA and made him fire her. He denied anything more than just talking inappropriately. I could not shake the feeling and so I found their emails on his laptop. The first words I read from him to her were, "I love you so much baby!" He still denied anything sexual until I read it in the emails. There were two trips. The first was the week after my birthday where he gave her Tiffany earrings. I got a pair of satin Victoria Secret pajamas that I already had.....

Anyway, he took that laptop to work after that and it stays there.

I believe now that this was not the first affair. Why hide it from me if I could not discover more? He has had years to clean it all off....

He leaves his phone laying around now, but I know cheaters can hide things really well.

HellFire posted 1/6/2020 11:25 AM

Hugs to you, BHBJ.

MustardSeedFaith posted 1/6/2020 13:48 PM

Well, I can say that this will be the most nervous reply ever but here it goes. (In the past I would definitely have just stayed silent and run. No more running.)
BeingheldbyJesus, thank you for your response. One of the best things I've done is listen to you and post on this site. It has made me spend more time here reading and following. To everyone who responded to me, I have listened and have started to do each and everything suggested. I just finished rereading "how to help your spouse heal from your affair". This time around I actually finished the book, taking about 4 pages of notes. I am sorry to say I did a poor job of listening and understanding it the first time around and that is certainly not fair to my BS. When I could not find our copy of "Not just friends" I ordered another and it arrives today. I suspect I will once again find out I didn't do a good job of listening and following through.
BHBJ, you are right, I have said some things and done some things that I certainly shouldn't have to you and I sincerely apologize. My reaction to things and you has certainly not been what it should be. However, in the last few weeks since I started this post, I am determined to follow through with everything. As i have found out recently, I can't fix anything until I fix me and I certainly feel like I have been hit by a ton of bricks. You told me something a few days ago that will stick with me forever, when I point fingers at someone else there are always 3 fingers pointing back at me. I need only to look at myself, no one else. Fix me. Patience, kindness, understanding, not easily angered, sincere and empathetic...those are just a few of the things that you deserve from me that you haven't received and I am changing that, one day at a time. My fault completely that I have made you wait for those types of responses and reactions from me.

EvolvingSoul posted 1/6/2020 14:32 PM

when I tell him that I want to divorce, he tells me that we are not going to divorce. He will never let me go. And the threats of suicide.... He treats me like an object….

Mustard, is this true?

MustardSeedFaith posted 1/6/2020 14:43 PM

EvolvingSoul, I'm afraid so. In the past I have acted pretty selfish, talking instead of listening to understand. I tend to talk over her, not let her vent and that is certainly something I am working on. Yes, I even got to a point where I had the gun in hand. It didn't happen recently, but then again it wasn't that long ago. It is obviously something I am not proud of and have hopefully made some changes not to ever repeat that.

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