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Can our [28M] [29F] short marriage really not be saved, or is my

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Bobbi_sue posted 12/20/2019 08:06 AM

I am one who hates to add details that are not there but I will admit your comment that because of things in your marriage, you don't think this has gone sexual. You should probably be thinking the opposite. If she is not happy or desiring you sexually it is because she is getting it elsewhere and quite happy with it. Did she have these issues before you married her? Do you think the new guy is going to be happily committed to a woman who won't have sex with him, even after she gets divorced (if she ends up doing that?)

But I am also one who does not think a main focus should be on whether an affair has gone fully sexual, or not. The fact she says she is in love with him and not in love with you is HUGE. Some say this is more often the case with women (to be more troubled by the emotional part), but I'm just saying for me, that would be huge and it would send me immediately to a D lawyer.

I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation.

fooled13years posted 12/20/2019 08:09 AM

throwmeawaynow98, I do not know you or your WW (wayward wife) so know that my assumptions are based solely on what you have written

Do I need to give her even more time, hoping she will find a counselor that will help her?

Give her all the time she needs but unless she realizes that there are problems caused by her actions there isn't much hope that she will seek a counselor.

Just because you are giving her time doesn't mean that you have to wait. Do what is best for you. Get better, stronger and more confident in yourself.

Because, again, even when we talk about divorce I still see a lot of "I think" and "maybe" type sentences coming from her - not someone who wants a divorce, and I sure as hell do not.

It would appear that your WW has trouble committing to anything or anyone. Except perhaps herself.
I'm afraid she thinks she has hurt me too much to even salvage the relationship,

Based on your "I think" statement I assume she has not told you this.

If she did not talk to you about her feelings while you were together, the chances of her opening up now that you are separated are slim to none.

which is why she wants to move on and also why she is struggling to stop contact with the AP.

This comes right back to her commitment problem.

There is always hope but try not to sit around wasting time while waiting for her to figure herself out.

As Cooley2here said

There are women out there waiting for you. Good ones. Loyal ones.

I know first hand after my first wife and former best friend cheated and had a son together.

I met one of the "Good ones. Loyal ones." when I wasn't looking and we are married and have started a family.

Tigersrule77 posted 12/20/2019 09:21 AM

I hate to join in the chorus of "cut your losses", but in your situation, I have to agree.

As you said yourself, you cannot force her to stay in the M. She has told you she doesn't love you. I know it is hard to hear (most of those in this forum went through the same or similar), you need to listen. She avoided talking to you about her problems, but is willing to take the time and face the music to tell you this? I think that means it is important to her.

You also need to realize that your wife is a liar. She has very likely taken things "too far", but she wants to minimize damage.

One thing you should consider in your situation. Your WW is feeling depressed, so she is choosing to look outside your M for something she believes is missing. Even if she goes to counseling and decides she wants to work on your M this time, she is showing you what to expect in the future. Do you want to deal with this again next time she is unhappy? Your WW does not appear to be a safe partner.

Dismayed2012 posted 12/20/2019 16:31 PM

Sorry to hear about your situation TMAN. As others have said. Your wife is gone and has been gone for a while. She’s re-written your marriage in her head so she can justify what she’s doing. Nothing you did caused or could have caused her choices. This is all on her. Your goal now is to be the adult in this situation and exert full control over what’s going on. Don’t allow her to set the tone. You must set the tone and give the directions as to how this is going to go down. The one thing that will kill any hope of any type of reconciliation is your emotions getting in the way. You have to be the strong one. Read about and do the 180. Get your head in the game. Assume that she’s had physical sex with the other man because the likelihood that she has is high to definite. Decide if you want a cheater in your life. This is not the woman you thought she was. She has now shown you the real person. Believe what you’re seeing. Decide if you want to spend any more time with someone who you’ll likely always be questioning where they are and what they’re doing. Life is miserable when you live that way by the way. Your best option is to immediately file for divorce and have her served. At the same time, tell the other man’s wife or girlfriend if he has one. Tell your family and friends so they know how to support you. Get this situation out in the open and exposed to light. Watch your wayward wife’s actions and behavior to give you clues as to whether she’s marriage material or not. You can always stop the divorce proceedings. Use them as a way to wake your cheating wife up. If she doesn’t turn around and come to her senses then take the divorce to its conclusion and live your life free of betrayal and happy. Get yourself out of infidelity. The longer you stay there, the longer you’re in pain. Then take your life back. Take back control of your future and your goals. Become more successful than you’ve ever been. Don’t allow anyone to ruin your future or fill your life with drama. You are worth the effort. Take care of yourself.

throwmeawaynow98 posted 12/20/2019 21:00 PM

Thank you all for the posts and support. My follow ups:

- Is it wrong that I want to tell some of her family about this? I do not believe doing so will save the marriage, but I believe my wife is a good person doing a bad thing - naive, yes - and I want her to go to counseling. Her one sister in particular has been through some shit and can help my wife get her head on straight. That does not mean go to counseling and come back to me, but I know in the long run my wife will "wake up" and she will begin to comprehend this and she won't forgive herself without having the right support system in place, and because I will always care about her, I want her to have that.

- We are meeting with a divorce mediator next week. She has not filed against me, and I have not filed against her, we will be attending the meeting together. Regardless of the above, I will give her what she wants, because it no longer seems like she is doing the "pick me" dance - she has moved on from me and is not in love. Now, do I know that with 100% confidence, no, because I can still look at some of our talks before she moved out and she still had that look on her face of "what have I done", when she was with me it was hard and it was hitting her. Once she left, no, no attempts at reconciling, but I believe this is the affair fog and that it will clear in time. Will it mean going no contact and saving the marriage? I'd be stunned and am starting to process this is over, we need to file papers, sell the house, etc.

HellFire posted 12/20/2019 21:14 PM

Gently, you've done a lot of research on the WS fog. You need to do some on the BS fog.

ShutterHappy posted 12/21/2019 04:31 AM


The way I see it, you are like a woman whose husband beat her on occasion, but she won't say anything because she loves him, "he’s a good person" and she doesn’t want him to get in trouble.

I get it. You love her and you want to protect her... but when are you going to take care of YOU ? Your WW is abusing you, let her go.

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 4:34 AM, December 21st (Saturday)]

Buster123 posted 12/21/2019 10:13 AM

Just file for D and have her at work and EXPOSE her A with ALL family and close friends, if D papers and full exposure don't shock her back to reality, then nothing will, just let D run its course to get out of infidelity. BTW get tested for STDs ASAP, cheaters lie a lot, however some STDs could be transmitted via saliva (kissing).

Thumos posted 12/21/2019 10:18 AM

I do not believe it is sexual - and she has been open enough to admit the kissing but denies that anything has gone "too far"

As others have said, they all say this. Every single one. Especially wayward wives. It is almost always a lie -- as nearly every single one of us here on this board can attest.

I'm sorry we have to say that, but it's true. The chances that they had sex are much greater than they didn't.

If it went on for more than a few weeks and if they engaged in deep kissing (which they did) then it got physical. No husband wants to think his sweet wife got physical with another man.

Gently, she did.

They aren't junior high school students so the kissing was no peck on the lips. Deep kissing is a barrier. Once it is breached, the physical intimacy barrier has been breached. It is a very physical intimate and passionate act. Once this has happened, sex is implied and very quickly openly discussed. Then it happens. It doesn't take very long because adults have sex. Women like sex every bit as much as men. And women will not put themselves into situations, proximity, opportunity or timing if sex with a man is not anticipated and desired.

I must agree with others who are in the "cut your losses" crowd. This woman, your wife, was unable to stay faithful over a very short period of time to you in a monogamous marriage (no doubt entered into with vows in a sacred setting before a higher power).

You've barely begun, and have faced no real challenges, hardships, the vicissitudes of life, illnesses, childbirth and child rearing, the weight of growing responsibilities. None of that. And yet, barely 1.5 years into the marriage, she's already canoodling and cuddling (and very likely doing much much more) with another man.

You're engaging in hopium on hard mode -- looking for "signs," trying to discern meaning in her words, reading tea leaves, "giving her more time" all while she's openly cuckolding you and holding you in contempt. She is treating you as her plan B backup comfort zone, while openly moving forward with a relationship with her plan A stud. And you are playing into that little drama perfectly by dutifully playing the Mr. Nice Guy role. Women don't want nice guys; they want men. Ideally, they want a good man. But they'll just take a man, even a bad man who is willing to break up a young marriage, if they can find it.

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:25 AM, December 21st (Saturday)]

Thumos posted 12/21/2019 10:34 AM

There's an old movie about the term, "7 year itch" where something runs out of a marriage and people look elsewhere for love, lust, entertainment. Together 6 years married for 1 1/2 hits it right on the head.

The 7 year itch is especially prevalent among women, according to statistics. It's a well known phenomenon. Sorry bud.

Your best bet here is to take control, stop the nice guy routine, file immediately for divorce and put a separation agreement in front of her, and then implement what is called the 180 (the hardest version).

Then start going out and living your life. Take some time to yourself, start eating a clean diet, start lifting weights aggressively.

Then when you're ready, go on dates with other women. You're going to be shocked at how many quality loving women are out there.

Your wife unilaterally opened your marriage and divorced you the moment she engaged in deep kissing with another man. Yes, that's really true. You're already divorced spiritually and physically. The paperwork just hasn't been filed yet.

You've had her on a pedestal (it's called pedestalizing) and it sounds like you might have what is called "oneitis" for her. She just dynamited the pedestal and she just confirmed for you a very important truth: She is not the special "one" because there is no special "one" -- there are a lot of very special women out there you could be compatible with. This one just showed you after a very short time who she really is. She took off the mask. Don't play along with letting her put the mask back on.

Thumos posted 12/21/2019 10:48 AM

Is it wrong that I want to tell some of her family about this?

I'm not in your shoes, so I can't say what's right for you. Here's what I think though:

No it's not wrong. It's completely right. It's called exposing the affair.

A basic step would be to IMMEDIATELY expose the affair to her direct family - her parents and siblings. That way she can't spin a false narrative. Tell them she is not being truthful or transparent, that she is more than likely minimizing the extent of her affair, and that she has admitted to a physical affair with another man going on 2 months.

You can tell them she is also deploying two common strategies that almost all adulterers deploy: 1. She is rewriting a new false history of your relationship and marriage to create a false justification for her adultery. 2. She is stringing you along with what is called a "cake eating" strategy and that you as an honorable man refuse to participate in an open marriage.

Another basic part of exposing the affair is to demand the name of her affair partner if she hasn't offered it and then immediately inform the man's girlfriend or wife of what you know.

Informing her family and the other betrayed spouse will implode the fantasyland of the affair almost immediately. She'll be enraged at you for doing these things and you'll get to see more of that mask slipping and the real woman emerging.

We are meeting with a divorce mediator next week. She has not filed against me, and I have not filed against her, we will be attending the meeting together.

Again I can only offer my opinion, but if this were me or I were giving advice to my son, I would tell him to consider cancelling this or seeing another divorce attorney immediately and filing it against her in whipsaw fashion. No mediation nonsense. Why? You've only been married 1.5 years, don't have kids and I assume don't have any other major financial entanglements.

Just file and separate and 180 her.

EDIT: By the way, it often seems to me, and yes I'm generalizing here, that women want to negotiate soft landings in either dating or marriage breakups caused by infidelity. They want to feel better about the fact that they are doing something wrong, selfish and hurtful. So they try to recruit their boyfriends or husbands into going along with an "amicable" narrative. I'm not saying you need to hate her or treat her cruelly. Indifference is the better attitude. Just make it clear you aren't going to participate in an "we're all going to get along" bit of nonsense, and there's no way you're going to be her best buddy going forward. You're moving on with your life without her and you have no interest in orbiting around the shitshow of her life. See how that works? Adopt that view. Give no quarter. And don't let her negotiate a soft landing anywhere. The idea here is that she should be crash landing her plane and standing bruised among the flaming wreckage she created, wondering how she could have treated such a good man so cruelly.

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:59 AM, December 21st (Saturday)]

Thumos posted 12/21/2019 12:35 PM

We are meeting with a divorce mediator next week. She has not filed against me, and I have not filed against her, we will be attending the meeting together.

Sorry just one more thing I thought about: This is her controlling the narrative. She wants to be able to tell her family “it just didn’t work out” so going to a divorce mediator together enables her to maintain the fiction of an amicable mutual parting of ways.

Don’t let her do it.

She had an affair - full stop. She doesn’t get a soft landing.

Newlifeisgreat posted 12/21/2019 14:18 PM

Tell everyone the real reason for the divorce before she starts spreading lies about you and your marriage where she was the poor struggling and victimized wife that couldn’t hang in any more.

I’m sorry that you are going through this. Stay strong and keep moving forward

throwmeawaynow98 posted 12/22/2019 09:10 AM


Really appreciate your comment and thank you for sharing. Definitely not fair, but I'm processing it and going through all the emotions. What is unfortunate is that my wife seems to not know who/what she wants and her story always changes. To family it's that we had issues X, Y and Z and that she is not in love and that we need to move on. To me it's the whole "we shouldn't have been married", "we weren't in love", "you did/didn't do ABC". To me and her friends, it's that she just woke up and realized that she didn't want to be married and she wants to be alone - but that doesn't excuse the affair (still ongoing) or the fact that we could have had this talk months ago.

One thing that will always haunt me is that she has known AP almost as long as we've been married. He is slightly younger and a scumbag, I met him once at a work event in the spring. He has inappropriately been interested in my wife the entire time, snapchatting her late, even trying to kiss her one time at work in the spring (my wife told me this months back). It just never got resolved, she made it clear to me and others that she kept her distance and tried to stay away, but something changed in the fall. I will just never know if it was that our marriage was so "bad" in her mind and that she was so unhappy so she turned to him, or if the entire time even during "better" parts of our marriage she was feeling conflicted and torn over him... signs that she just wasn't ready to be married and couldn't be faithful to me.

With counseling, a few weeks ago she was all in. Now she is not looking. A friend of mine who went through a recent breakup told me that his ex had become a dangerous person because she didn't know who she was, what she wanted... she essentially had a quarter life crisis. I'm seeing all of that with the thoughts my wife has about not wanting to be married and wanting to live on her own (she went from living with her parents to living with me and was never alone). Of course, she committed to me but failed me and gave up her vows... she also was in love, but now is not, but yet didn't just walk away. She felt that the marriage was not working, had an affair, and now she is probably with that person and thinking she is happy but she is not. I only can pray for her - not for us - that she figures out her life, because like my friend said, this type of person will hurt everyone in their path like a tornado before they figure out who they are/what they want and before they realize what they've done to others - namely me in this example with the affair.

[This message edited by throwmeawaynow98 at 8:20 PM, January 14th (Tuesday)]

Marz posted 12/22/2019 10:02 AM

He is slightly younger and a scumbag

Maybe so but she picked him over you.

Trying to stay in this gets you what?

Freeme posted 12/22/2019 17:55 PM

Wasn't sure if you read this similar thread.

Newly married and the husband just decides it over because he wants to try dating again.

Marauder posted 12/22/2019 18:04 PM

Your wife is lying, she seems to be a consummate liar, why do you believe anything she's saying?

Dragonfly123 posted 12/23/2019 03:42 AM

Throw me... I’m so sorry but I think you need to accept that this marriage is over.

All your posts are focused on her and her current game playing. I really think you need to reflect on the clear message she has sent you about your very short marriage.

You should have been in the honeymoon period, instead your involved in a sexless marriage driven by her ‘medical’ needs? Sorry but this sounds bollocks. She’s using this as an excuse for lack of intimacy and it’s possibly a massive lie. As is the idea she’s not slept with him.

She’s telling you she’s not in love with you, blame shifting and behaving appallingly.

You don’t have children? I’d RUN! I’d run and not look back. You deserve better than this cheating, lying, entitled piece. And please don’t fall into her mediation trap. File for divorce and tell the world it’s because you didn’t like her boyfriend.

Think about you and your future. It’ll hurt. It will hurt but believe you and me, being married to someone who cheats while dealing with a family and your children’s tears, is a pain I wouldn’t wish on anyone. And she will cheat again. She has all the trade marks DON’T TAKE THAT RISK!

You deserve better. If you’re not already get into counselling and really work on your self worth. You can and will rock this!

[This message edited by Dragonfly123 at 3:45 AM, December 23rd (Monday)]

Charity411 posted 12/23/2019 13:18 PM


The 7 year itch is especially prevalent among women, according to statistics. It's a well known phenomenon
Can you please provide the source of those statistics. About how it is especially prevalent among women I mean.

I'm really sorry you have to deal with this situation TMAN. In my 7th year of marriage my EXH decided he loved his best friend of 22 year's wife. I was given no options. Sometimes we are dealt a bad hand, and no amount of trying to understand or trying to figure out where we went wrong is going to make a difference. Realizing that doesn't mean you're giving up.

My EXH and I went to counciling. While we were at our appointments my husband's best friend and his wife (my husband's mistress) babysat for our daughter. Of course her husband and I didn't know they were having an affair at the time. Needless to say the counciling was meaningless. And individual counciling for him wouldn't have accomplished a thing either. He didn't want to fix what was wrong with him,

It is especially hard around the holidays to deal with this. My EX left on Thanksgiving all those years ago. I thought I'd die. Today I'm happy, healthy and having a great life. I wish the same for you.

StillLivin posted 12/24/2019 22:30 PM

Your wife is not special, or some poor damaged kitten. She is a garden variety, cake-eating cheater. She is doing this shit after only 1.5 years of marriage. Count your blessings and cut this dead weight loose and never look back. God I WISH my ex had done this shit so soon in our marriage. I walked after 14 years, but damn that walk was hard. It took me 2.5 months of coming out of my shock to file, but I hit the ground running once that shock wore off. It would still have hurt after only 5 years, but we wouldn't have had investments, insurance, life insurance, a mortgage payment, and other debts to try and wade through, bot to mention the hurt he did to his sons.
I deserved better, and so do you.

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