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How many of you fellow WSs....

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FoenixRising posted 11/8/2019 07:30 AM

Darkness, I agree with you, those are different things.

I felt very entitled to have my A. I think most folks who know my story understand why I felt so unattached to my H. In fact, my H has told me that it wasnít that I had sex with someone else. Itís whoís advances I accepted that made it monumental. I didnít pick our mutual friend. I really had not thought of him as anything other than family.

But I knew what I was doing was wrong bc of his wife, my Ďfriendí. I certainly detached from that and on purpose. I further my entitlement by thinking, ĎI knew AP long before he met his now wife, so Iím entitled to him as well as my affair. After all we were both just going through marital motions at home. The force was just too strong for either of us to fight.í
Entitlement out the wahzooooo there.

It was a couple weeks after DDay 1 that H and I sat down and talked about maybe neither moving out just yet. Going to counseling... letting go of the outcome but slowly.

I didnít feel entitled to him or the idea of a new marriage. I felt Too foggy to see straight still but knew things werenít right in my head. I was beginning to wake up.

Now, fully awake I still have trouble making sense of my feelings about this entire colossally life changing event. I donít have worry anymore about my uncertainties though. I really have to thank meditation, mindfulness, and the buddhist way of life for that. Truthfully it wasnít until studying buddhist ideologies that I was able to really see anything the way it truly is. Yesterday is a lesson. Tomorrow is a hope. Today is the only moment any of us truly have. Everyday my H gives me the gift of R. I dint feel the need to thank him everyday by acknowledging it verbally. Instead I acknowledge it when we are all together as a family and everyone is giggling and we look at each other and smile. We donít need words to feel thanks we give each other. This is the Marriage weíve always wanted and Iíll spend all my days in it as long as we both continue to acknowledge and show gratitude toward each other.

WalkinOnEggshelz posted 11/8/2019 07:56 AM

I had no idea that R was even a thing. I assumed that having an affair and getting caught meant that my marriage was over. Iím pretty sure that my husband thought that it was over, as well.

I owe my MIL for helping open the door back into our home and ultimately my marriage. I had left and when I realized I had no place to go, for some reason she was the person I called. She convinced my husband to let me come back to the house which allowed us to begin some conversations.

Once back home, I absolutely took the idea of R for granted. Iím not sure I felt entitled to it, but I certainly tried to control it. Once it was a possibility, I didnít want to lose it. Ironically that idea is exactly what put it in jeopardy. I think that self-centered /selfish better describes it. I was more concerned with how this all impacted me at the time.

Over 9 years later I am still in awe that my husband had more faith in me and the possibility of rebuilding our marriage than I did. I canít even express the gratitude and love I have for him. I am a better person because of his strength.

I would also be remiss if I didnít mention that I/we give SI a great deal of credit for the guidance it provided us. I donít think we would be where we are today if it wasnít for this site and itís members.

pinkpggy posted 11/8/2019 08:28 AM

Nope. I fully expected him to leave and to divorce. I still don't feel entitled to reconciliation. I think all bets are off after an affair. Divorce is always on the table.

leavingorbit posted 11/8/2019 08:45 AM

I wanted to. I was terrified of losing him. I didnít know how to communicate, how to fix anything, how to do anything except point my finger. I displayed massive entitlement, that his behavior was worse, that I was somehow superior and wronged. Underneath that was a scared, bleeding wreck. Underneath that was a ton of shame and a certainty that I was scum, my constant companion for the first 30 years of my life. So I guess... outwardly? Yes, lots of posturing and bids for control. Very self-involved. Inside, I was crumbling. God, the arrogance of treating him that way. The ONLY positive thing I did after discovery was stop blameshifting. It took me awhile to start forming concrete whys but I also knew that he wasnít one of them. It was on me.

Getting rid of those unhealthy communication patterns and displaying vulnerability has been a learning curve. I know I canít look back with the expectation that I would suddenly learn all new, healthy communication and behaviors without guidance. Itís still hard to accept that (perfectionist? probably) and I focus on the fact that I know better, can do better now. That heís choosing to extend grace to me, right now, everyday, and every minute is an opportunity to show love and compassion.

Iím so grateful that heís here, still. Everyday is a gift.

hikingout posted 11/8/2019 08:45 AM

I agree with Pinkpggy that r comes with no guarantee. I know my h can change his mind at any time and that is a natural consequence of my actions.

I understand where you are coming from gmc. I think asking for R can come off as entitled. At the same time not expressing hopes or desires you may have as a ws of wishing you could try to fix the marriage can be detrimental as well.

On dday my confession started with.. I have some hard things to tell you but understand that I am telling you this because I want to see if we can try to fix our marriage. I said that up front because I didnít want him to wonder where my head was at when the wheels fell off during what I had to tell him.

After dday I asked for nothing. I kept my head down and worked on IC, on reading and doing what I felt would be needed. I concentrated on actions because I realized how my words would come off as cheap. But not saying those things left him not understanding where my head was at. My H needed me to beg on some level, to reveal my desire to keep him. It almost made us divorce. When I laid myself bare on all the ways I felt, it meant something to him, enough so that it made him pause the divorce. But again, I was doing the work the actions, so maybe by that time the words meant a little more. I donít know but I think it takes both things. Itís hard for new ws to know what to do here because sometimes the bs does want to be pursued, sometimes they donít. That to me is pretty individual. My h needed to know it was my desire to R.

Zugzwang posted 11/8/2019 08:55 AM

I expected my BS to "get over it already", so I guess I really expected her to R. I really expected it based on who she is and her character. I banked on her unconditional love and took advantage of that. I bet many WS did the same thing. Even if they aren't at the point of admitted that degree of darkness.

I have seen many WS come here thinking their BS "owed" it to them. Usually when they think they are doing everything right and they come across that if they choose to stay married to their BS, then the BS owes them the chance. I have seen that a lot. Expecting to pick up where they left off. When I have seen that, the WS usually come across with a ton of resentment for their BS and seem like they were entitled to have the affair because the BS didn't give them what they wanted. They also seem to come across that the BS should have learned their lesson and respect them more by having the affair. Like they are punishing their BS. Why they just didn't divorce is beyond me.

IMO entitlement included us all. We chose to cheat instead of divorce. We chose to cake eat. Be married and indulge in more ego kibbles at the same time at the expense of other people. That is basic entitlement.

Then again many WS come and do nothing. Myself included at first with the attitude that the "ball is in the BS court" and white-knuckle thinking if they behave all will be well and forgiven and just move on where they left off. Not good that way either.

Zugzwang posted 11/8/2019 08:59 AM

I agree with Pinkpggy that r comes with no guarantee. I know my h can change his mind at any time and that is a natural consequence of my actions.

So true. I think we have this opinion because we have moved forward and changed. Even to this day if she chose to leave I would accept that because we caused a huge rift in our relationships with our BS and it is the natural consequence of our actions regardless of how much work we put in or how much we have changed. This comes with remorse, owning it, and acceptance. It comes with wanting the best for our BS.

numb&dumb posted 11/8/2019 09:16 AM

That being the case, it seems illogical that a.) we KNOW the spouse wouldnít accept an extramarital liaison before having it, but simultaneously b.) we expect that they will accept it AFTER the truth comes to light.

I don't think there is a thought process there in the same way it occurs after the fact. Most WS don't expect to get caught so the "Would I deserve R" isn't even part of the equation until Dday. Most just believe they will never get caught and/or can stop at any time. Let's be frank these are not long drawn out type decisions where a pros and cons list is drafted. They are somewhat impulsive and reckless.

I mean we can only go by what is shared here on SI. A WS might be saying they don't deserve R, but at the same time feel that they are "owed a chance," privately. Whatever mental gymnastics were used to keep the cognitive dissonance at bay during their A might go into hibernation right after D-day, but they usually come back when things calm down. Hence, the large amount of WS that point to the M as the "cause," of the A.

I don't think a lot of WS that feel that entitlement would post on SI. Even if they do they post once or twice and they leave as soon as the other WS refuse to support their narrative. Further are too scared to actually admit their faults.

As someone who spends a lot more time in JFO I see that all the time. There are countless examples of "My WS says I owe them a second chance because their A was because of me." We don't see their WS post here because they don't believe they did anything wrong. Very sad to see a BS willing to give a chance, but the WS refusing to accept their choices as wrong without trying to make a power play and dictate terms of R.

On the other hand there are plenty of cases where the WS doesn't want R either. They don't believe their BS would ever forgive them or it was an exit A. Add in the plain old Narcissists and you have a significant population where the BS wants R, but will never get the chance. Those cases are particularly heartbreaking for me. No not all Ms can or should be reconciled, but it is hard to tell someone that when their life has been upended without them having a say in it.

Most WS that post on SI are looking for help and a lot of them are looking to R or at least pondering that. The WS that fit your example would likely never post on SI. If they did they will leave as soon as the advice given is hard to accept or doesn't benefit what they really want all along. (Not to be the bad guy in their narrative).

Broken4good posted 11/8/2019 09:20 AM

I guess it isn't that I think he owes it to me, but I warned him it would happen and he acknowledged that he knew it would, b/c he knows my personality. He even added he couldn't wait till I got it over with so we can move on with our lives. So in my case I guess I would just be shocked if he wanted a D. We have been through so much I don't even know how hard I would fight him, I don't really have the energy to fight much right now.

hikingout posted 11/8/2019 10:00 AM

All good points zug.

It IS sometimes hard to understand some of our perceptions now come from having learned and changed our mindset. I can admit to my darkness, I didnít bank on unconditional love. But my affair was more exit than cake eating, though it had elements of cake eating. It took two months in IC after A ended to have even enough clarity to confess and it was done against the advice of the counselor (who I later fired). I donít think I felt entitled, I think I hoped we could try. I didnít have any idea what his reaction would be. I didnít have any of the knowledge I have now about how long it would even take to really start that. I think we operate in a different understanding rather than doing things in ignorance and constantly trying to catch up to what we should be doing or thinking.

Numb&dumb makes some good points as well.

[This message edited by hikingout at 10:01 AM, November 8th (Friday)]

pinkpggy posted 11/8/2019 10:11 AM

When I had my affair, I almost wanted my BS to find out. I was so desperate for out of the marriage. I 100% assumed he would find out, we would divorce and he would leave. I gave him the password to my phone knowing what he would find (he did not have any idea, he thought something else was wrong).

Then after dday and the trauma, I thought, well maybe this can CHANGE the marriage. We were talking more, spending time together, hysterical bonding, and I was hopeful. But never did I expect R. I still don't expect it.

Darkness Falls posted 11/8/2019 10:19 AM

Pinkpggy, great pointóhope vs. expectation.

Hikingout, also a great pointóasking for/desiring R can certainly seem entitled, but on the flip side, a lackadaisical ďwhateverĒ from the WS without any sort of expression of wanting to recover the marriage seems to also be damaging.

DevastatedDee posted 11/8/2019 10:23 AM

My XWH absolutely felt entitled to R. He begged me not to leave at first and claimed he viewed it as a gift, but when I was finally done and leaving, he pulled "what about in sickness and in health" out at me (ha) and resented me for leaving. He vacillated between not knowing why I would ever be with him and feeling completely entitled to behave however he wanted and have me there with some kind of magical unconditional love that he decided on his own that I possessed.

Zugzwang posted 11/8/2019 12:40 PM

"what about in sickness and in health"

Well you could throw that in Christianity, infidelity is not viewed as a sickness. It is a choice and one of if not the only reason to divorce. Just thinking about laying with another in marriage was the sin of infidelity. So, that line is a mute point for him.

Buck posted 11/8/2019 12:57 PM

My WW expected R, hell she expected me to fight for her. After all, her A was my fault...

When I cheated, I really didn't care if she left or stayed. I wasn't sure what I wanted at the time and her choice truly did not matter to me.

hikingout posted 11/8/2019 13:10 PM

In Christianity, infidelity is the only allowable reason to divorce. Sickness and in health goes out the window.

DevastatedDee posted 11/8/2019 13:11 PM

Well, he was "an addict" so "sickness" was his excuse. Naturally, my comeback was "forsaking all others?".

romiane posted 11/8/2019 13:19 PM

Honestly, you'd have to be a little dim to not expect an attempt to continue the relationship. A lot of people talk tough, but when push comes to shove, the vast vast majority cave in.

People rarely leave the person who cheated on them because of cheating. They leave after because they are out of love after the cheating and the other stuff settled, but they are not the "you cheat on me you're out" kind.

Of my nearly four decades, the only guy I know who left his wife who as far as I know he was in love with the very moment he learned of her affair is a complete lunatic (albeit a charismatic high functioning one).

DoinBettr posted 11/8/2019 14:19 PM

Nevermind

[This message edited by DoinBettr at 2:29 PM, November 8th (Friday)]

Darkness Falls posted 11/8/2019 14:26 PM

I guess Iím dim, then, because I knew heíd divorce me as soon as he found out....and I was right; he did. So maybe not so dim after all....

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