"You can survive this. Talk to others that have"

wantstorepair posted 10/9/2019 14:41 PM

I recently wrote out a timeline for my BS. It is 8 years overdue. It is 12 pages and contains all manners of my lies, cheating and abuse for our entire 25 year marriage, but I left out the graphic details of each AP encounter, so I am going to redo it. Should I post it here? Redacted for privacy of course. Is that appropriate to get feedback and hear everyone else thoughts about it and how awful it is?

nekonamida posted 10/9/2019 14:50 PM

Better yet, why is it 8 years late? And is your BS happy with it?

survrus posted 10/10/2019 16:58 PM

If your BS is a man than the sexual details are the most important.

foreverlabeled posted 10/11/2019 15:52 PM

I don't think its necessary to post it here. Often times we will suggest writing two timelines for your BS. One being the basics, who, when, where, how many times and so on. Reserving the second timeline for more in depth information, such as the sexual details.

Does your BS want that information?

wantstorepair posted 10/20/2019 07:41 AM

It is 8 years late because I am an asshole who has refused to face what I have done and look myself in the mirror and face her and the consequences of my actions. she is not happy with it and wants more details, so I am going to take your suggestions and write a second timeline with the details she needs

BraveSirRobin posted 10/20/2019 09:04 AM

I don't think anyone here needs to know sexual specifics unless they're directly relevant to advice you need from us. Any kind of sexual contact outside the marriage is a betrayal unless you have an open marriage. Your spouse probably needs to hear every gory detail so that they know what they're forgiving, but we aren't here to forgive you. That's not our role.

Now, if your wife is struggling with her reaction to some particular act that you did with AP, and you need to ask about how other WS approached a similar problem, things have been known to get graphic here. We've had discussions about clitoral sensitivity, penis size, anal pleasure, the role of toys in R, all kinds of adult topics. But it isn't (or at least shouldn't be) to say, "My God, you had anal, let's fire up the coals and rake you over them." We would, however, say that "Sex in the marital bed is a particularly devastating betrayal, and your spouse may find it even harder to forgive because of the power it gave AP and the intense disrespect you both showed her." Or "You had unprotected sex, so you both need STD testing right now, and protection during HB."

Lastly, you don't need to give us the full details, but don't lie, either. It's a waste of time to claim you had an EA when it was a PA or give us the dreaded "we never had sex/it was only once" if you were banging like rabbits. All of us are liars, so we won't judge the fact that you can lie, but we will begrudge the time we spend giving you advice that proves to be totally irrrelevant.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 9:05 AM, October 20th (Sunday)]

MrsWalloped posted 10/20/2019 09:33 AM

Does your BS want that information?

This is a very important question to ask your BS. Not every BS wants to know the graphic details and you can’t unknow it once you’ve read it. Offer to provide all the details if it’s what your BS wants, but gently ask if your BS really wants it. My BH needed to know all the details and asked about them many times, but each time I gave him answers it caused him so much pain and heartache. He couldn’t heal without knowing, but knowing made it harder to heal.

gmc94 posted 10/20/2019 09:40 AM

Not one lie.
By omission or
By minimization or
Outright.

Not ONE lie.

If your BW wants everything, than give her everything.
If she wants how you felt - write it down.
And then YOU offer and if she wants - make the arrangements to take a polygraph.

Humans are wired for story. You created a secret story outside of your M. Your wife not only deserves to know the truth (aka reality), but it may be be necessary for her healing.

It is not about you. It’s not about how bad you screwed up. It’s about her and what she needs to make sense of her life and heal. ANY thing that is not 100% truth and 100% full and complete disclosure (bc that is what she has asked for) is like refusing a tourniquet to someone bleeding out after you shot them, bc it would mean you are naked and embarrassed. Give her the damn tourniquet she needs, even if it means you are walking around without any pants

wantstorepair posted 10/20/2019 10:59 AM

Thank you all for replying.

wantstorepair posted 10/23/2019 06:51 AM

Perhaps this should be a new thread because the real issue here now is that I have lied so much for so long that I am not believable. Therefore the timeline has no meaning. I revised it and add it in the details and it is still not good enough because I am not believable. I’m continuously told that I’m minimizing and justifying and defending, and while I am clear that she is correct And feels that I am doing those things, I routinely fail to see how I’m doing it and therefore continue to do it causing further hurt and pain. I very much want her and the children and all of us to be able to move forward, but I seem perpetually stuck in this Loop I have created. I And no matter how honest I am now because of all my lies I am a liar. How does one Work through this and how is it even possible to reconcile when I am forever unbelievable?

Brennan87 posted 10/23/2019 07:59 AM

Wanttorepair,

There is no stop sign, so here's a BS take.

I am detail oriented and needed to know it all. Hence the infidelity novel my WW crafted which ended up being 65 pages. No lie.

As others have said, have you asked your wife is she wants the details and if so at what level. Literally, I needed to know what (if anything) did he set on our nightstand when he came inside the house or exact verbiage in certain conversations. Knowing what your wife is expecting will help you tailor it to her needs. Giving too much when she doesn't want it, will cause further damage.

I will also add that since you are so far out (8 years) you need to caveat the timeline with something like "I am sure there are details you want to know that I can not recall at this time, I promise/commit to you that if anything surfaces later, I will come to you and tell you and ask if you want to discuss". This cuts down on the pain of "I dont' remember or I don't know". As in our minds, you destroyed our marriage for "I can't remember". Which demonstrates to us, how little the marriage actually meant.

gmc94 posted 10/23/2019 08:14 AM

You write a DETAILED timeline. 12 pages over 25 years? Doesn’t sound very complete to me.

If I wanted ALL the details (and again, ask your BS what she wants), I’d suggest you start with the basic who, what, where, and when: eg Mary (coworker), intercourse in our marital bed, fall of 2008.... josephine (prostitute), handjob to orgasm, in our car, sept 19, 2010.

Add in Your thoughts and feelings, for instance:
**** I was worried about getting caught because I knew you might come home early because you had been feeling sick that week. But that worry also made it more risky, which was exciting.
**** I fantasized for weeks before the 1st sex with Jane in June 2014. That morning I dressed thinking about her taking off my clothes. I wondered what she would wear. I was thrilled with the anticipation, which made me feel young and alive.
**** Afterward, we cuddled for about 15-20 minutes, but it felt like a much longer time, because I was trying to find an excuse to get out of there.
**** I felt guilty when I left - both bc I broke my vows, and also bc I knew she wanted me to stay longer. And then I felt angry with myself. And I was angry with you for taking off work so I couldn’t spend more time with my AP, cuz I really wanted to take her out for a nice dinner, but I didn’t have an alibi to give you.
**** I was afraid you may figure it out when you saw my paycheck wasn’t as big as it should have been if I’d really been working overtime like I told you. I was relieved when you didn’t question it, as I thought for sure you would have added up the hours and known something was up.
**** The minute you told me you would be out of town for two nights, I began to plan having the AP come over. It was just a matter of getting the kids out of the house for a whole overnight. But when it happened, I got anxious and worried our DS would come home early, like he did before when he got sick.
**** I aways fantasized about an overnight with AP. We talked about it many times - how much we both wanted to wake up to each other, just once. But we could not come up with a lie we thought our spouses would believe.

And add more detail as you go- for instance:
****What you and AP wore
****The sexual play by play (IF BS wants it): eg, we kissed with tongues. I took off her shirt and bra and sucked her nipples while she rubbed her thighs against my penis, etc.
****How you and the AP met.
****How you each signaled (or discussed) sex was on the table
****Anything and everything you ever talked about (tv, sports, religion, whatever)?
****Discussions about you (and the AP if applicable) being married
****ANYTHING said to an AP about your wife or kids or family (whether positive or not)
****Any money spent (hotels, gifts, meals, drinks, etc)

My suspicion is that WSs want a “checklist” of what to do. And IMHO, that may be a problem. The point (or one of them) is for the WS to DIG DEEP on their own. For instance, my gut tells me my WH remembers details about the sex that he has not disclosed. I believe his shame tells him to minimize... and maybe even tells him to lie to himself. To me, that is a bad sign of continued wayward thought processes. It also open the door for my lizard brain to tell me he is still NOT to be trusted with anything (lizard brains don’t see gray- its job is to see the world in pure black & white - fear or safety). See the problem?

And then offer to take a polygraph. Get the names and numbers of poly examiners in your area. Call them and ask if they do this kind of thing. Get their experience. Write it all down and give it to your BW. Even if she never uses one tidbit of that info, it sends a message that you are being proactive

[This message edited by gmc94 at 8:20 AM, October 23rd, 2019 (Wednesday)]

BraveSirRobin posted 10/23/2019 08:25 AM

How does one Work through this and how is it even possible to reconcile when I am forever unbelievable?

Are you in IC? Working on your whys will help you understand your impulses to lie, protect yourself, and control the narrative. If you figure out what's causing your fear/entitlement, it becomes easier to identify what you're doing and to stop doing it. That, in turn, helps rebuild trust, because your BS has a legitimate reason to think that you might finally have arrived at remorse.

But you can't just decide to change those deeply ingrained patterns without understanding how you developed them. That's like thinking you can drive while blindfolded as long as you point your face in the right direction. You're just going to keep running her over in the driveway until you do the work to uncover your eyes.

survrus posted 10/23/2019 17:00 PM

WTR,

Offer to take a polygraph where the major question would be "is the timeline complete and without omissions."

Your W has the right to divorce you based on any specific detail btw.

Has your W spoken with to OW to confirm your story?

wantstorepair posted 10/23/2019 19:57 PM

Thank you all for your responses. I still have a lot of work to do and realize I need to go much deeper into the timeline and details. Gmc94 and brennan87 thank you. No stop sign, as I am looking for all perspectives and guidance.

wantstorepair posted 10/23/2019 20:01 PM

Bravesirrobin, thank you and yes. I have not been honest with myself either and trying to understand the why is important, I don’t want drive blind anymore nor keep hurting people because I’m not strong enough to look inward.

3greatkids posted 10/24/2019 04:11 AM

I really don’t understand what purpose you have in posting here and telling me “you’re trying”. We’re 2 months out from finally being able to file for a divorce that is 25 years overdue (after nearly 9 years of trickle truth, lies, manipulation, emotional and physical abuse).

A hail mary “timeline”, full of blame for me, your affair partners, that defends, justifies, minimizes and flat out ignores affair partners, details, actual days/weeks/months, and is full of statements telling me how I feel isn’t “walking over broken glass” to save your family.

I get it, your latest “sleepover but nothing happened” boss you threw your last chance offer to even try to work on things for this time last year is no longer interested in you, but the kids and I aren’t your plan F.

I’ve spent almost a decade reading on these boards, trying to understand, and piece together 25 years of a horrific puzzle you could have easily filled in. You even lied about a polygraph for fucks sake, and swore on the children’s lives.

Please stay at your house, and start abiding by a visitation schedule. Posting manipulations here is feeding dangerous delusions that fuel your entitled rage and aren’t helping anyone move forward with the choices you’ve made for your life.

nekonamida posted 10/24/2019 16:34 PM

WTR, please respect your BS and do exactly as she has asked. You really should have known better if your timeline included blaming her and whining about how much you have to do in R when you have done so little. You really need professional help and guidance no matter what happens with your marriage.

3greatkids, I wish you the best and I know that you will find peace away from this mess.

nekonamida posted 10/24/2019 16:36 PM

Furthermore, own up to the physical abuse and get help for that as well. Don't you dare lay one finger on your BS ever again.

WalkinOnEggshelz posted 10/25/2019 05:46 AM

3greatkids, you have a pm