"You can survive this. Talk to others that have"

Thumos posted 8/24/2019 15:06 PM

But to answer your question more directly, Strugglebus, yes most betrayed husbands will report feeling deeply ambivalent, looking at their wives with a waning sense of attraction and thinking “meh, you’re nothing particularly special. Maybe I should move on to someone new.” That shouldn’t a be an especially shocking sentiment, and if a betrayed husband is claiming otherwise, they’re a special kind of unicorn. In fact, you can read an entire thread dedicated to this topic among men on SI here. It’s quite widespread. In fact, many men report feelings of outright physical nausea and disgust. They are repulsed by their cheating wives, so I’m thankful I don’t have that experience.

Nevertheless If you’re a middle aged man, and you yourself are a reasonably attractive and successful person, and you were a loyal husband who was genuinely attracted to his wife, you were looking forward to elder years in mutual respect and admiration. You didn’t expect your wife to look like a twenty-something hottie. You looked forward to watching her age and noticing the finer points of her aging beauty, and to be by her side until death parted you. Etc. Etc.

But that’s just fantasy land after a WW has sex with another man in your home and gives her body In a transactional bid for some kind of illusory feelz and tingles. When the respect and admiration is ripped away from you in a particularly jarring form of betrayal, then naturally you’re going to notice flaws — and physical beauty is part of a husband’s experience of enjoyment with his wife. If she willingly gave her body to another man, the specialness is gone and the flaws stand out more. This doesn’t seem that hard to grasp. Seems pretty normal, in fact.

Thumos posted 8/24/2019 15:13 PM

Exhibit A: Look up “The Gift of Menopause” in the New York Times (can’t share the link because SI’s policy on blocking links).

This writer asserts liking the feeling of invisibility. Maybe she does, or maybe it’s just another “sophisticated” New York Times op-ed trying to be contrarian. Regardless, the feeling of being invisible as a post-menopausal woman seems fairly widespread, not something I cooked up in my fevered misogynistic imagination.

For what it’s worth, given my wife’s focus on her beauty, I don’t think my wife will enjoy the feeling of being invisible and that’s something I’ve ruminated about, thus my comments about it. As I considered the impact this knowledge has had on my opinion of her and my own ambivalence, I thought it was relevant to the feeling of ambivalence that seems to be a common thread among both waywards and betrayed spouses.

FoenixRising posted 8/24/2019 15:14 PM

Thumos- Do I hear you saying that you no longer desire your wife bc she had intercourse with someone else and that her looks are now fading so no one else will want her either?

Zugzwang posted 8/24/2019 15:36 PM

because this attention is fleeting and won’t be coming your way for much longer.”

What? I have seen woman and men get attention no matter the age. Are you saying your wife makes it specifically about getting attention from her looks? If so, I have seen plenty of old men in my stores hit on old women. It never stops. If it isn't about looks, it is about some other thing. My late grandmother-in-laws cooking. The list goes on. Life doesn't stop when you get to a certain age.

looking at their wives with a waning sense of attraction and thinking “meh, you’re nothing particularly special.

My wife looked at me that way too after dday. It isn't just for betrayed husband. I think any betrayed probably hits the anger then lethal plain of flatness with the notion and realization that we cheaters are less than special because of our very nature.

I think that invisibility goes deeper than that article presents. With familiarity, invisibility can easily happen for every marriage. Personally, invisibility for my wife happened for me because I made it that way. I took her for granted and then took advantage of that. Probably holds true for most waywards. Add in the ability to compartmentalize and it becomes even easier for a wife to become invisible. Maybe another reality is that most menopausal woman go through empty nesting syndrom and feel invisible to themselves because they don't know themselves and are looking to find who they are without being a parent and wife. Gee, really not much different than a man having a mid-life crisis.

I agree though about beauty. Both my APs really focused on their looks and constantly fished for comments on themselves from anyone that would bite. The amount of selfies made my head spin. They couldn't hold a candle to my wife. She is beautiful inside and out. Most females that hit on me, were really shallow about their looks. I just chalked it up to their "mean girl" cliche attitude and their lack of self confidence and esteem. Your wife is going to be left adrift if she is still in such a shallow mindset about looks and not focusing on her self love. Men like me don't cheat because of a woman's looks. I cheated because they were easy and willing and they approached me first. Bottom of the barrel like myself. The affair down aspects. When her looks fade, there will still be men willing. It is all about the ego kibbles.

I would think ambivalence comes from knowing you can survive just fine without the other spouse and if I had chosen to cheat again, I would be the one losing out she would go on in her life and live it. That is how my wife came across to me during her lethal plain. Scary as Hell. When your ship pulls anchor and tosses you overboard to start swimming.

Thumos posted 8/24/2019 16:48 PM

Thumos- Do I hear you saying that you no longer desire your wife bc she had intercourse with someone else and that her looks are now fading so no one else will want her either?

I don’t know what you hear me saying as I seem to be rattling around in your head, but what I’m saying is:

1. Yes, my attraction for her has waned after she gave herself to another man. Is the desire gone? No. But it’s not the same, and this doesn’t seem difficult to comprehend. I’m sure betrayed wives experience this feeling of their spouses as “tainted” and less attractive. It seems particularly potent among betrayed husbands.

2. Are her looks fading? Yes. She’s still objectively beautiful but she now seems to race around in increasing circles chasing after Botox and the like to keep the plates spinning. I never cared about it before, I certainly took pride in having a beautiful wife but I wasn’t focused on it, and I was never critical or made her feel like she needed to do those things. Now I have a more cynical view. And as many other betrayed husbands will attest, this waning attraction and cynicism is an issue in light of the adultery. The specialness is gone, so the flaws stand out more. This seems like a natural response that wayward wives ought to anticipate before they indulge in adultery, but they always seem surprised. Before the affair - “my wife is beautiful and she is aging gracefully. I only enjoy her more as I see the evidence of wisdom in her beauty.” After the affair: “Hmmm. That’s a new line and is it just me or is her jawline a little softer than a few months ago?”

3. Are her looks fading to the point no one will want her? That’s quite doubtful. As someone pointed out above, he sees old women getting hit on by aging studs all the time. I’m a little skeptical of this, and I think he’s overstating the case, yet it’s certainly true that some randy man will always want some woman somewhere. But it is the case that women seem to experience a phenomenon of increased “invisibility” and don’t garner the easy attraction of orbiting suitors of their younger years. I remember reading about a social science study that suggested women after menopause who divorce actually see a precipitous decline in even romantic hugs they experience for the rest of their lives. I was surprised by this, but it was a legitimate empirical study if memory serves.

4. So if I left her, would she find someone new? Probably. Even likely. Does that bother me? A little, if I’m being honest, but I bet I’d get over it relatively quickly in light of the shattered sense of specialness.

In any event, whether it’s fair or not, successful middle aged men who have kept their physical fitness up don’t seem to face the “invisibility” problem at the same scale. This has entered into my thinking, and I think it’s fair and reasonable that it should. Pragmatism is always a good approach for betrayed spouses.

It’s interesting to me that folks seem to want to walk around this. I realize it’s an uncomfortable point, but I didn’t cook it up out of thin air. It seems to be the way things work.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:52 PM, August 24th (Saturday)]

Thumos posted 8/24/2019 17:00 PM

Your wife is going to be left adrift if she is still in such a shallow mindset about looks and not focusing on her self love

It actually seems quite common; I don’t think she’s alone in this regard. That’s the point of the invisibility phenomenon - even women who didn’t consider themselves particularly beautiful were used to getting favorable attention from men all the time from the time they were about 15 years old on. You grandma may be a hot number who is still cooking, but that doesn’t seem to be a widespread experience. So it’s always a shock to them when it starts to dissipate, and yet this seems to be a real thing. Also a real thing: the brain stew of chemical changes that a woman’s menopausal brain undergoes. I’m not making this one up, either. And yes, I’ve wondered if this is part of what led to her affair. The altered brain chemistry and the feeling of waning beauty and less attention from men as she walked around in the world. And then suddenly, here was a younger man complimenting her and feeling her up.

BraveSirRobin posted 8/24/2019 17:31 PM

Thumos, my problem isn't with the accuracy of your observation that a woman's perceived sexual value declines as she ages at a greater speed than a man's does. That's an unfortunate reality of our society. What disturbs me is the underlying message that you endorse and and defend that attitude. You imply you were doing your wife some kind of favor as an attractive middle aged man who was still attracted to his similarly aged wife, something she should have had the strategic sense to be grateful for.

Can you see how this would be insulting to women, WS and BS alike? To revel in being inherently above your W in value because of your gender? I understand that that's highly gratifying when you've been walloped by her betrayal, but you don't need to rub all women's noses in it. Remember that BWs whose Hs cheated on them for a younger model read here too. You make no secret of your contempt for all waywards, but you could spare a thought for BW feelings when you casually dismiss a middle aged woman's chances of finding someone worthwhile if they lose or choose to leave their WS.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 7:18 PM, August 24th (Saturday)]

FoenixRising posted 8/24/2019 19:51 PM

Thumos- 1. Yes, my attraction for her has waned after she gave herself to another man. Is the desire gone? No. But it’s not the same, and this doesn’t seem difficult to comprehend.
I’m sure betrayed wives experience this feeling of their spouses as “tainted” and less attractive. It seems particularly potent among betrayed husbands.

I most certainly understand and respect that you view your wife differently. What is particularly troubling to me though, is that at 3 years later, you still see her as “tainted”. I don’t really know why. I’m not trying to be a bitch in my replies to you by any means. I am truly trying to engage in a conversation that may perhaps give us both pause and a chance to evolve our thinking. The BS in me says yes... tainted at first... but then moreso, ok, he’s human. This blows but at 3 years out, I didn’t see him as tainted. Of course I’m female and a big advocate of women’s equality. The potency of betrayed men feeling as though their wives are now tainted really goes back to the assignment gender roles or the development of sterotypes. Also, do the same betrayed men view wayward men as tainted or are (some? All? A few?) of them that are so appalled by their wives indiscretions but giving high fives in the locker room to a wayward male... my point is, consider your source. Think for yourself. Be one person. One mind. One man’s mind. Not part of a group who’s negative thinking you approve bc you read a study a bunch of years ago that (if you remember correctly)supports your theory.

Thumos- “Yes. She’s still objectively beautiful but she now seems to race around in increasing circles chasing after Botox and the like to keep the plates spinning. I never cared about it before, I certainly took pride in having a beautiful wife but I wasn’t focused on it, and I was never critical or made her feel like she needed to do those things. Now I have a more cynical view. And as many other betrayed husbands will attest, this waning attraction and cynicism is an issue in light of the adultery. The specialness is gone, so the flaws stand out more. This seems like a natural response that wayward wives ought to anticipate before they indulge in adultery, but they always seem surprised. Before the affair - “my wife is beautiful and she is aging gracefully. I only enjoy her more as I see the evidence of wisdom in her beauty.” After the affair: “Hmmm. That’s a new line and is it just me or is her jawline a little softer than a few months ago?”

Thank you for explaining with the jaw line comments. That makes much more sense. I guess for me though, I started thinking those things the second the fairytale of happily ever after ended. Mostly bc that’s reality. It’s natural to realize your spouse is human. Not perfect. I bet she worked hard to paint the picture of the happy perfect wife. Clearly she did bc you thought she was. Something was missing within HER. She is sick. Do I think she deserves off the hook? Hell no. But some compassion? Yes. She does. We all do.

The only truths you KNOW is your own. Imagine if some of the greatest artists like van goh threw out each masterpiece because of a flaw that only he could see.

You say that you have never been critical of her. That you never cared about it before and that YOU took pride in her attractiveness. Did you tell her this? Did she know you thought she was beautiful? Did she know that you felt pride in her? Or did she feel invisible because She was unappreciated in her efforts of beauty, keeping a house, a home, children, laundry, cooking, cleaning... does she work outside the home? Did she ever come to you before and say she was unhappy, unfulfilled, unattractive, unappreciated, or did you think you were living happily ever after?

You want to know when I felt my marriage was tainted? The second I found out my H was $75,000 debt and never told me about it. We were married for 6 months. Then there was the time I was miscarrying in our bed alone while he was out in the living room masturbating to porn. Or the time we had friends over and he disappeared into the study for an hour a jerked off to photos of some internet stranger. There was that one time he got an STD check after 8 years of marriage, longggggg before I had an A, and he never told me about it but found out when I called and question the bill thinking they were talking about my son who bares his fathers name. Or the time after I suggested, arranged, attended, and participated in marriage counseling (and so did he came along enough to shut me up and BOOM back to old ways. AND then when I asked him after 10 years of marriage (PRE-AFFAIR) for a divorce was told, “we can’t afford that.” Now thumos, I could have sad, that sonabitch! He’s tainted men for me! They’re all the same, especially those PTSD Iraq vets. There’s just no chance for them. They’re lost souls who’s beauty will never return.

I mean instead, I lost all my morals, slept with our best friend, ruin decades worth of relationships, not to mention the children involved and explanations of why families that spent holidays together for so many years, no longer would. Hell, I even did me a stint at the psych ward. Not my finest nor proudest by any means. And boy was I tainted. Broken. Disgusted. Confused. Lost. You know who took care of me? You know the only person that did not put me through the ringer??? The only person in the world that I ever wanted to tell me how much he cared for me, our marriage, our family. He picked me up off the floor and not one time EVER considered me tainted because he finally saw me. My husband who is flawed SOME but filled with so many more gifts.

If now, at this point he still considered me tainted I would be sure it was time we part ways. I’ve done my work on my end to be transparent, safe, reflective. I can say all the things that I tried to do before it got to the point of the A. They weren’t good enough. They weren’t the right things. If they were, I would have never had the affair. I am as much responsible for the marriage pre A as he was. I chose my own actions. Things to be mad about. Things to hold onto with resentment. It’s no way to live and you bet your sweet bippy I am not going back to that. Maybe your W needs to really up her game. I don’t live your life so I’m not sure but you only control you and you have choice in how to proceed. The negative feelings aren’t healthy and it’s nitnal to have them of course given the situation but if they’re still eatingbyou up (which the way you write tells me they do) then in order to heal, you’ve got to stop looking at her and rather, at yourself. It’s her job to prove to be safe, eat crow, do the work but at some point you must move from the past and get back to the present

Thumos-“3. Are her looks fading to the point no one will want her? That’s quite doubtful. As someone pointed out above, he sees old women getting hit on by aging studs all the time. I’m a little skeptical of this, and I think he’s overstating the case, yet it’s certainly true that some randy man will always want some woman somewhere. But it is the case that women seem to experience a phenomenon of increased “invisibility” and don’t garner the easy attraction of orbiting suitors of their younger years. I remember reading about a social science study that suggested women after menopause who divorce actually see a precipitous decline in even romantic hugs they experience for the rest of their lives. I was surprised by this, but it was a legitimate empirical study if memory serves.
You can be skeptic of Your wife getting hit on some day by studs. Gently, she will. It isn’t hard to meet people and anyone can find a ‘soul mate’ regardless of one’s personal definition of such. Thumos, I am so sorry that you are still in so much pain. If my replies are only further triggering you, I will step away. It’s not my intention to make you feel worse. I know how much heart ache infidelity brings. Please do know though that if I (we Waywards) can help, I’m happy too.

One more thing, you know you have the right to leave. No one would begrudge you for this. But if you stay, might help to scaffold your thoughts so that they bring you peace within.

[This message edited by FoenixRising at 8:20 PM, August 24th (Saturday)]

Thissucks5678 posted 8/24/2019 19:53 PM

Thank you BraveSirRobin. I appreciate your empathy - coming from a BS who was cheated on at the ripe old age of 33 with a COW who was 22. It sucks to read even if I’m aware of the reality.

Thumos posted 8/24/2019 20:32 PM

What disturbs me is the underlying message that you endorse and and defend that attitude.

Good point. Shutting up now.

Zugzwang posted 8/24/2019 22:53 PM

Thumos you are talking about a certain group of women that would even care about getting less attention. I doubt all women are like that when they hit menopause. Only the ones that need attention and outside validation. Think what you like. I work up to 10hrs a day at a small grocery store. I see it all. I see old men hit on old women. I have seen maybe 3 hit on a younger woman. They know they are out of league and would be viewed as horny old men if they hit on younger ones. This generation of 20somethings don't put up with creepers.

So it’s always a shock to them when it starts to dissipate,

how would you know if it was shock to them? You aren't female. Your wife is a cheater and not exactly in the same class as faithful women. Your POV is based off of women that thrive off of outside validation to make them feel wanted.

As a cheating man. It didn't matter the age of the women I cheated with. Anyone willing to give me attention at that junction in my life worked. Just so happened the two were younger. They both were in their 20s. Age doesn't matter. Cheating goes across it all. Young things that jump on older men. Cougars. Milfs. Whatever. It isn't about age and if they are a hot commodity. It is about being needy, desperate, and easy which proven here crosses all age groups. Just willing to sit in shit with another person willing to sit in shit.

What do you suppose your wife's reasons were for cheating? That she felt old and wanted to cheat to prove she still had it and could get it? Doesn't that apply to any age? Wondering how many can they get chasing them to build up their gaping black hole?

Onlyjan posted 8/29/2019 17:09 PM

I’m sorry, I know a lot of people are angry with Thumos here, but speaking as a BW, I can say, I do feel my husband is “tainted”, yes, even some 26 months later. That being said, he is not doing the work, is not accountable, continues to lie about mundane stupid things (the latest was I caught him at the bicycle store when he was supposed to be at work). So yes, to me he is “less than” and “tainted.” So perhaps if he were striving valiantly to make reparations, as some here appear to be doing, I would feel less anger and disgust.

I do find myself picking him apart in a way I never used to as well. He is 47, and inordinately vain. With the affair came a new obsession with youth and his appearance. He had laser surgery on his eyes, bought all manner of new clothing, and began working out like a madman. He also began dieting like a fiend. Now, instead of looking at him sympathetically, knowing he is fighting the aging process, I view him with some disdain. And I think, frankly, his attempts to stave off middle-age are somewhat pathetic. Again, however, I’m speaking as a BS who is at the verge of leaving her US, because I’m tired of the gaslighting, lying and selfishness, and a lack of remorse.

As a woman who is 45, I will also admit — I fear my “invisible years”. It’s part of what has kept me put (well, apart from my 3 kids, the youngest of which is 6 years old). I feel like no man would want a 45-year-old woman with three kids, and that I’d be alone forever. This despite the fact I’ve been a TV personality now for 21 years, and the fact I’ve been on billboards and commercials etc. And have always had so much made of my appearance. An affair has a way of completely decimating your self-esteem. I had a very healthy perspective of my personal charms, and was content to age, prior to the affair. I never cared if I saw an errant white hair, nor did I fuss too much over my weight. Now, I’m obsessed with my appearance to an unhealthy degree. If I’m not able to wear my 00 jeans, and can only fit my size zero pants, I worry I’m getting fat. I’ve increased my workout regimen significantly, and I constantly calorie count (something I never did before). I fret about white roots showing. Wonder when the wrinkles will start, and when the last time I’ll be carded. I do worry about menopause and the inevitable weight gain/acceleration of the aging process. These are realities, in a world which values women, largely, on their appearance. I may have a jaded perspective, given the line of work I’m in. But that being said, I truly never much cared before my husband’s affair. I was prepared to age gracefully, without much fanfare or fuss.

As to noticing his flaws — again, like Thumos said — I think that’s inevitable. But I don’t just notice his external flaws (the white hair showing up in his scruff, which I know the old me would have found endearing, now just appears like old man whiskers, to an extent). I notice more than anything his character flaws, and I scrutinize him for all the things I was blinded to by love. I think an affair puts a spotlight on ones’ flaws, perhaps, subconsciously, because you don’t want to be blindsided again by putting someone on a pedestal they didn’t/don’t deserve. My husband was my everything, next to my kids, for 25 years. He literally could have done most anything — save for sexual/emotional betrayal — and I would likely have found it in my heart to forgive him. Now his tendency to criticize grates on my nerves like never before. His inability to be on time for anything — drives me up the wall. The fact he never pays a billl on time, and is in trouble for not paying his taxes this year (and is now having his wages garnisheed) makes me look at him with some shock and disgust. Before I was able to ignore these things, or just shrug my shoulders because they were just inherently part of who he is. Late, critical and irresponsible? Meh. I loved him anyway, because there was so much more to him, and so much more of him that I loved. I also recognized no one is perfect, least of all myself, so I never expected it of him. Now, however? I think he’s a loser for not paying his taxes etc. I think it’s a question of lost respect, and I don’t know how to regain it.

Again, however, I don’t know if my perspective would be different had my husband had a true “heart change” and were he to be doing the work. He did the work for the first six months and then gave up and turtled, and I cannot and will not work on this all by myself, despite the kids I love more than I love myself. I want them to have a family, but I can’t let myself feel anything much anymore for a person who lies pathologically. It is too much.

Darkness Falls posted 8/29/2019 17:35 PM

It’s not only limited to BSs, either, in addition to not only men. I think my husband is reasonably handsome, but being over a decade older than I, I certainly am starting to notice the wrinkles, the thinning (what’s left of his) hair, the lower muscle tone, etc. It’s a reality of aging for all human beings, regardless of the label they wear or the gender they are.

Onlyjan posted 8/29/2019 18:18 PM

That is interesting, Darkness Falls. Do you find you subconsciously compare him to AP? I’m curious as a BS. I don’t compare my husband to anyone. Frankly, I still (maybe sadly for myself) think he is the best-looking man I know. I just notice his flaws. My husband is actually in better shape then he was ten years ago, because he is training for Ironman and works out maniacally (this seems to have replaced the affair — he sent me his Garmin live progress link as he was cycling rhisbmorning, and he did 42 km in an hour, for example). He had his teeth whitened and took new care with grooming during his affair, and that has largely continued (although now he only seems to wear gym clothes, not fashion-forward clothing (which was too young for him, frankly, and looked vaguely ridiculous). Given he was my best friend since I was 18, I know I would have found his greying beard adorable and endearing before. Now? Meh.

Darkness Falls posted 8/29/2019 19:08 PM

Onlyjan,

No I don’t. I haven’t seen the AP in almost three years, but as he was my H’s age, I don’t doubt that age is catching up to him just as much as anyone else....of course, including me. No one is immune.

Thumos posted 8/29/2019 19:21 PM

As a woman who is 45, I will also admit — I fear my “invisible years”. It’s part of what has kept me put (well, apart from my 3 kids, the youngest of which is 6 years old). I feel like no man would want a 45-year-old woman with three kids, and that I’d be alone forever.

I appreciate your sentiments, but if I’m being honest I have to admit I was trying to get in a subtle dig at WW’s. That’s why I stopped contributing to this thread. I worried I was simply being hurtful.

Do I want WW’s to be scared of their invisible years? Yes. Do I want BW’s to be scared of their invisible years? No. In fact I find it heartbreaking to think of it.

I am sure your views on yourself are distorted because of betrayal trauma. If you’re a 45 year old attractive television personality, your prospects are MUCH better than your husband’s.

And I think that Proverbs 25:24 applies to both BW’s and BH’s, and you don’t even have to believe in God: “It is better to live in a corner of the roof than in a house shared with a contentious woman” - just replace the last word with “man” - the meaning is the same. The Proverbs writer (in my case I think the writer was divinely inspired) is saying that you’re much better off leaving a contentious (unrepentant, unremorseful, narcissistic) spouse and living alone in a garret EVEN if all the things I said about “invisible years” are true.

Think about that.

hikingout posted 8/29/2019 20:02 PM

I was going to comment on this thread earlier because It was an interesting topic I have not seen directly addressed in this board before. Sure we see newbies come and have the ambivalence that believing the bullshit that they brainwashed themselves with to exist in an affair. But I hadn’t seen it talked about in this way. I think often it’s a symptom that happens in both sides of the fence after infidelity. But then it went in a different direction. I was giving thumos a wide berth in knowing the things he stated he was struggling with on some of his threads.

I just want to say to thumos - I do understand why you have stated the things you have in this thread, and I applaud your honesty that you wanted to get your digs in. I especially honor the restraint you have shown in stopping when you felt that you were being hurtful to the BW.

I can understand why you may want to lash out at ww’s in general. However, many of us who are here are so very sorry we did the things we did. We have suffered in our own ways from our actions (always recognizing that our bs suffered worse) and I know I would give anything to go back and change it. Lashing out is something we have already or maybe currently are experiencing. I think most that are here are really trying to work on ourselves and those who are not there yet are new and we are still trying to help them to see what we see. I won’t ask for your compassion nor do you owe us any, but I did want to at least say these things in hopes that you might see us as potentially here to help you. And know that you have that power to help us should you wish to. I don’t think anything at all you said was bad or wrong. In fact it’s helpful for many of us to be reminded to the degree of the damage but when you admit to trying to put digs in then I decided to at least speak to that.

20yrsagoBS posted 8/29/2019 22:48 PM

I like to play audiobooks in my car while driving. I have this one, by a Dr Crabbe that discusses a spiritual marriage.

Essentially, he says it is normal to grow weary of your spouse, over time. Unless you feed something, it will not grow.

My Cheater’s cheating and lying made him less attractive to me. I don’t need him to financially support me, he’s rotten in bed, so I don’t have any use for him in my life. But, rather than give in to my ambivalence, I try to remember what I liked about him in the first place. You know, before the mask slipped and we saw the evil lurking behind. That monster IS hard to love, harder to desire, and why should we?

So, while I amfaking it until it becomes real, why don’t you try it?

My Cheater told me that the sex with his APs was terrible. He kept going back for more because
Bad sex is STILL sex” despite getting boned by me at home.

There’s a Divorce Busting book that encourages you to treat your spouse in the manner YOU wish to be treated. Have you tried that?

Thumos posted 8/29/2019 23:06 PM

We have suffered in our own ways from our actions (always recognizing that our bs suffered worse) and I know I would give anything to go back and change it.

Just want to say I do know that. I do recognize it.

Maybehurtforever posted 9/1/2019 21:38 PM

I think a “soul mate” is someone you can bare your soul to and they love you all the more for doing it. They know you and all the beauty and ugliness that we are made up of. If they can also be this open and vulnerable with you and you love them for that, then you have your soul mate. I think I have known for a long time that I was the only one baring my soul in this relationship but I kept trying. I found my soul mate but he didn’t find his. He preferred hookers. Now he wants all that with me and I’m not sure if I do anymore

[This message edited by Maybehurtforever at 10:36 PM, September 1st (Sunday)]