X

Cookies on SurvivingInfidelity.com®

SurvivingInfidelity.com® uses cookies to enhance your visit to our website. This is a requirement for participants to login, post and use other features. Visitors may opt out, but the website will be less functional for you.

more information about cookies...

Return to Forum List

Return to Reconciliation

SurvivingInfidelity.com® > Reconciliation

You are not logged in. Login here or register.

Feeling Stuck in Anger/Plain of Lethal Flatness Phase

Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 · 42 · 43 · 44

redwing6 posted 3/2/2020 18:36 PM

I think you'll see that Thumos' WW is a devoted good mother. I don't think there is reason to worry she would do that.

Not sure that you can really say that. She's dropped a nuke on her marriage and failed the poly. At this point, her word can't be trusted. I'd still appoint a trustee for his kids if I was him. But that's just me.

KingofNothing posted 3/3/2020 11:15 AM

Since I sent those texts this morning, nothing. Radio silence. Now granted, she has the kind of job that can often keep her from responding to texts. But according to phone records it didnít keep her from replying to the OMís texts and phone calls while they were in the affair dozens of times a day.

Just curious, Thumos, did she ever reply to that one?

WalkingHome posted 3/4/2020 09:36 AM

You can't be a good mother and a WW. The two are absolutely incompatible.


Destroying the M, removing the father from the home, and financially ruining their future...these are not the actions of a good mother.


Newlifeisgreat posted 3/26/2020 09:34 AM

Just checking in on you. How are you doing?

Did you ever get the most-nupt?

I know that you wanted to stay at least until your youngest graduates from high school. With all of the schools closing due to Corona, does this change your timeframe?

Hang in there.

I think you see light at the end of the tunnel.

Stay strong

Lostgirl410 posted 4/18/2020 14:11 PM

Thumos,

How are you doing? I believe your last post was over a month ago. Between the crazy world, your emotional stress, and your most recent health scare...just wanted to check in.

3rdstrike posted 4/20/2020 09:31 AM

I have to admit that I really miss the dynamics of this thread. I actually depended on the information that was shared here as a daily reminder of why and how I need to stay focused on my situation. There were so many people sharing the best of their best experience on one thread. It's a one stop shop for breaking a situation down to it's core.
All in all, I hope everything is going well for you Thumos.

Notsure123 posted 6/11/2020 17:29 PM

Was wondering if you're lurking Thumos. I hope all is well. Please checkin.

Thumos posted 6/13/2020 08:56 AM

Iím still here and doing all right. Sorry I have not been more active. Just before the pandemic started I decided I needed to really step back from SI for my mental and physical health (esp on the just found out forum). The false heart scare was a wake up call. I have been rediscovering my faith and focusing on my physical health. I will be back at some point to provide an additional update.

Buck posted 6/13/2020 09:34 AM

Itís good to hear youíre okay Thumos!

Butforthegrace posted 7/13/2020 14:31 PM

Thumos, I'm quoting you here from another thread to avoid a TJ.

We went to Retrouvaille, not because I really wanted to, but bc weíd already signed up months earlier. I was surprised by it, and it was very helpful to me in regaining my faith and and also reaching more and more towards forgiveness. It also helped me to see and hear from couples who had been through what we have - with a wifeís infidelity.

I'd be interested to hear more about this.

While it was helpful to me, a part of me just couldnít quite shake the feeling that the husbands had settled. And I donít want that. The sad reality is also that I just donít feel the same about her since the affiar, and weíve never reached any resolution about her lack of transparency about the affair.

If memory serves, you had reached a place (via a prolonged "disclosure" process involving therapist(s) and a partially failed poly, where you believed she was telling the truth about sex just one time in the home, but that she was not being truthful on the question of whether she had sex with him on additional occasions (but not in the home).

Is that still more or less the state of this issue?

SlapNutsABingo posted 7/16/2020 12:19 PM

It's great to hear you are doing well and it's great to have you back!

Thumos posted 7/16/2020 14:35 PM

Based on BFTG's query, I wanted to provide a long-promised update.

Iím pretty much in this same place *externally* vis a vis the marriage and the facts on the ground, but not internally insofar as my own interior life.

I'm doing much better physically and mentally.

So where to begin?

After my WW failed her polygraph right before Christmas, I was on the verge of filing for divorce after the holidays. My WW knew that I was on the razor's edge and we had some conversations with our oldest about it (who also knows about the affair).

You can imagine this wasn't a very happy holiday season.

Then the heart attack scare came crashing through the door. Not gonna lie, I felt vulnerable and unstable and needed to focus on this health crises. I told my WW point blank, "This is your fault and it's on you." But she said she wanted to take care of me, so I let her. In retrospect, I think this was unfair of me to say. After all, I had elected to stay in the marriage and allow the toxicity of three years to build and build. So whose fault was that?

In any case, that drama lasted from January through February, when I was finally given the "all clear" that there was no heart attack and my heart is quite healthy and arteries are clean as a whistle (at least insofar as stress tests, ultrasounds, and scans are able to determine).

It's obvious that a combination of stress brought to a head by the polygraph, weight gain from stress eating, and a CPAP that wasn't providing me with enough pressure at night (leading to heightened BP) was the cause.

The false heart scare was a wake up call for me.

In February we attended a Retrouvaille weekend, something my WW had signed us up for in the fall. We went not because I really wanted to, but bc weíd already signed up months earlier. I went in with a very reserved and cautious attitude. This was the kind of weekend where you're locked in a pastoral center, staying in a spartan room and focused on the sessions.

I was surprised by it, and it was very helpful to me in renewing my faith and and also reaching more and more towards forgiveness.

It also helped me to see and hear from couples who had been through what we have -- with a wifeís infidelity. We had candid discussions with older couples who run the Retrouvaille weekends about how they'd moved forward. While it was helpful to me to talk one on one with these folks, a part of me just couldnít quite shake the feeling that the husbands had settled in these situations for something less than ideal. Their faith was helping them, but I wondered if that would be enough for me. And I donít want that.

(Note: I feel I would be betraying confidences if I revealed too much detail about these conversations and the circumstances of the infidelity in the older couple's situation).

The sad reality is also that I just donít feel the same about my WW since the affair, and weíve never reached any resolution about her lack of transparency about the affair, along with the failed polygraph.

She failed, to remind everyone, on the question of sex more than once with AP. This was a "definitive" result by the examiner, who has a stellar law enforcement background as a retired agent with a state bureau of investigation.

Absent the failed polygraph I know for sure without a doubt that my WW brought another man over to our house for the express purpose of unprotected sex, that she played house with him and our kids by haivng him over for extended dinners while I was away on work trips, that she discussed with the OM how she "didn't even care" if I found out and chortled and chuckled about the sex they had, that she gaslighted me to make me think I'd falsely accused her, that she encouraged me to think I was paranoid and needed professional psychiatric help, that she invoked an in-home separation from me during the affair, that she trickle truthed me and blameshifted after D-Day and tried to get me to accept a line that I was 'sexually immature' about her having 'meaningless sex' with another man, that she buried evidence, destroyed evidence, refused transparency and refused to take an STD test or write out a timeline or submit to a polygraph for years. And that she finally failed a polygraph on the question of whether she was telling me the truth about the affair.

Those are some of the fundamentals I know. They haven't changed. They won't change. In the harsh light of day, they look so deeply ugly. They are hard to get past, get over, get through. They are hard to square with the idea of reconciliation.

Almost immediately after the Retrouvaille weekend came the pandemic. And the lockdowns. I'm sure you're thinking "wow, that must have been hellish being trapped together with her." But as I've pointed out before, on a day to day basis we get along great. I tend to enjoy her company no matter how I feel about her long-term. We have great sex together and always have.

The best way I can describe it as a girlfriend that you're not terribly serious about committing to. A girlfriend you know expressed contempt for you, and willingly put her husband and her family at risk for another man.

We've talked about these things relentlessly. We don't talk about it much now, and I suppose that's a form of rug sweeping. She's said she couldn't imagine doing what she did before she did it. She's said that humans are broken, all of us, and since I'm a Christian I can't disagree. She's said some people commit horrible transgression and then experience remorse, shame, an identity crisis and self loathing -- while others don't. She puts herself in the former category. She's said she has been changed by what she did and knows within herself she would never repeat her destructive behavior - not bc it would salvage a ruined relationship but because it's the right way to live. Before, she says, she didn't allow herself to contemplate the horror of what she was doing. Now she does. She takes comfort in knowing within herself she is a safe spouse for me and a safe parent for her children.

I think there's some merit to all of this. It may even be that she had the unfortunate confluence of perimenopause putting her "in heat" (there's some scientific evidence for this) and allowed her to be open to the first idiot who complimented her ass or whatever.

But even if all of this has merit, I'm still not sure how I feel about it at the end of the day. Too little too late?

I'm sure like everyone else the pandemic also put things on hold in a kind of stasis. If I was concerned about my kids before, the idea of springing a separation or divorce on them in the midst of a global pandemic seemed absolutely revolting to me.

We continued the Retrouvaille folo ups via Zoom through the rest of the spring. Again, helpful, but I just don't love her the way I did before. If anything, Retrouvaille has helped me to think about what I would I do differently with a new wife if I decided to remarry.

We've accumulated some debt as a result of marital counseling bills not covered, and the pandemic forced our hands on getting more aggressive about paying down that debt.

It's important to me that the debt be entirely paid off before I make any other decisions. We've been very diligent with this, and I'd say we're now about 3-6 mos from achieving a debt-free goal.

I am no longer triggered constantly and no longer vascillating between that feeling of being hollowed out or angry constantly. I think Iíve pretty much forgiven her, but as you all know thatís not the same thing as accepting it or even deciding to remain married.

My WW understands this. She's talked about taking a trip somewhere for my 50th birthday and even has broached the idea of renewing vows for our 25th anniversary next year. I've been decidedly non-committal about these discussions.

That's really all for now. I stepped way back from SI during the heart scare and the pandemic. I felt it was becoming unhealthy for me and I needed the space. I started lifting weights again regularly, doing more cardio and eating right. I stopped imbibing alcohol except for a few drinks a week socially. I started reading books again, a pleasure I'd denied myself because I just couldn't focus. I've become a near chef in the kitchen, and have delved deep into French and Italian cuisine (knowing how to make your own pasta or tomate-beurre blanc is not helpful for losing weight I can tell you).

A friend said recently, "you're looking really great!"

I'm back here for the time being. Actually it was yet another round of seeing BWís on a thread denigrating BH pain that reeled me back in. Iím a sucker for those threads bc the amount of cognitive dissonance and logical incoherence by mostly BWís against BHís is bizarre and kind of stupefying. They seem almost angrier at BHís than their own WHís.

Weird.

Anyway, Hope everyone else is doing all right.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:05 PM, July 27th (Monday)]

nekonamida posted 7/17/2020 10:13 AM

Before, she says, she didn't allow herself to contemplate the horror of what she was doing. Now she does. She takes comfort in knowing within herself she is a safe spouse for me and a safe parent for her children.

If she finally came clean and admitted to how many times she really did have sex with OM, there would be some merit in this. But if she's still refusing to acknowledge the lies she told, it really doesn't matter how much she says she gets it. She does not because it's impossible to still be protecting herself and the A over doing what she needs to do to help you heal and move forward. The truth is step 1 to healing and changing for a WS. It's impossible for her to get to a completed recovery without it.

Do what is best for you. Keep getting those ducks in a row. Be honest with her that you're not interested in the trip or the vow renewal and TELL HER WHY. Regardless of how authentic she is or isn't being, it's still in your best interest to live authentically from this point forward. You don't need to have a big talk about how she killed the love you had for her with her lies and failed polygraph but you do need to stop pretending like things are okay and moving towards a successful R when they are not. That's not something you owe her. It's something you owe to yourself.

Thumos posted 7/17/2020 11:09 AM

You don't need to have a big talk about how she killed the love you had for her with her lies and failed polygraph but you do need to stop pretending like things are okay and moving towards a successful R when they are not.

Excellent advice

Butforthegrace posted 7/17/2020 12:05 PM

But if she's still refusing to acknowledge the lies she told, it really doesn't matter how much she says she gets it.

I wasn't going to comment on this thread, but this is exactly what I thought when reading it.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 1:23 PM, July 17th (Friday)]

Thumos posted 7/17/2020 14:47 PM

You had a longer comment BFTG - did it get truncated? I found it useful. If you donít want it on the thread, send a PM to me?

Butforthegrace posted 7/17/2020 15:27 PM

I'll try to recreate it in a bit. I didn't want to be "Mr. Negative Man" so I deleted some of it, but happy to recreate it if you find it useful.

BTW, your PM message is at its limit. I learned the hard way that you have to manually delete old PM's to make space for new ones.

KingofNothing posted 7/17/2020 15:40 PM

Thumos, I'm delighted to see you back here, and to read your sage comments. I felt as if there was something unresolved about your case and after reading your update I can see it has affected you in a life changing way.

Let me ask you this-- I'm not giving advice, I'm just asking for clarification. I have read, repeatedly, how much the trauma of adultery fundamentally changed your view of your wife. Comments like this one about how you feel about her now are what I'm referencing:

The best way I can describe it as a girlfriend that you're not terribly serious about committing to. A girlfriend you know expressed contempt for you, and willingly put her husband and her family at risk for another man.

I know exactly what this sensation is like. I have experienced something very similar in the year I tried to reconcile with my own XW. In the end, it was me sitting down with her and explaining something just like what you say in that quote above-- that she really wasn't special to me any more. I felt love for her, but in the absence of absolute trust, and in the wake of hostility and betrayal trauma, I really couldn't reignite the spark I once had with her, no matter how much I wanted to. I didn't want to confide in her any more because she had violated trust so badly. So what was the point of staying married, exactly? Anddd that was the moment she got it. I knew I had tried. Just like you know you have tried. I've read all about you trying. So.. I KNOW you had to have told her about her not being that special to you any more, and how she feels like a girlfriend and not a wife any more. You're just too honest of a guy not to tell her that.

So.. in lieu of that, how does she respond? I mean, what is in marriage FOR HER now, if her husband views her this way, and is likely to view her that way forever? Well, never say forever but you know what I mean. If this is the way it is after all the therapy, all the discussion, all the best attempts at reconciliation there is.. then what does she get out of it?

Thumos posted 7/17/2020 15:43 PM

BTW, your PM message is at its limit. I learned the hard way that you have to manually delete old PM's to make space for new ones.

Just took care of it - thanks!

Darkness Falls posted 7/17/2020 15:46 PM

Destroying the M, removing the father from the home, and financially ruining their future...these are not the actions of a good mother.

Wouldnít this then be true of anyone who divorces their spouse for whatever non-infidelity reason?

Sorry for the t/j, Thumos, but I must say Iím confused. Thereís the crowd that suggests divorce if a M isnít working, that itís better for kids to come from a broken home than be raised in one, then there are quotes like above that make me think the opposite.

Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 · 42 · 43 · 44

Return to Forum List

Return to Reconciliation

© 2002-2021 SurvivingInfidelity.com ®. All Rights Reserved.     Privacy Policy