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Feeling Stuck in Anger/Plain of Lethal Flatness Phase

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hikingout posted 12/24/2019 04:43 AM

I am sorry Thumos. You did deserve much better than that. The fact she would go in and fail it knowing she would is inexplicable. Take good care of you.

Butforthegrace posted 12/24/2019 05:16 AM

Has she offered anything in terms of explanation, apology, follow-up disclosure?

nekonamida posted 12/24/2019 06:29 AM

I'm sorry, Thumos. This was not a surprise but it hurts nonetheless. Take your time to think but when you're ready, schedule that lawyer appointment.

ISurvivedSoFar posted 12/24/2019 07:07 AM

So this news isn't a surprise and it hurts like crazy.

But here's the thing. She did do the poly. She knew she wouldn't pass. That's a conundrum, no?

I don't know her IC - but she needs some serious therapy to ground herself and to believe in herself to the degree that she can be honest first with herself and then to everyone else. The fact that she cannot even be honest with herself and not betray herself tells you something.

That is all for her to figure out if she wants a relationship with you and if she wants her family to remain intact.

As humans our motivation to change happens when we are impacted. You are impacted and therefore you are going to do something about it. She is now impacted and it will in turn do something about it. The hope is it gets the results you desire. The key is to change the dynamics and to stand strong in whatever boundaries work for you, and not do anything to help your WS.

Sending you lots of positive energy right now Thumos. Hug those babies. (((Thumos)))

IHatePickingName posted 12/24/2019 07:14 AM

I am so sorry Thumos. You deserve better than this. I hope this helps you feel less stuck going forward. You know you do not have the truth and never will, and she will never be honest or safe. It wasnt the answer you wanted, but it is an answer. The hardest part for me was trying to make decisions without enough information, and now you do have this.

crazyinlove1995 posted 12/24/2019 09:16 AM

Damn.Sorry Thomas

Buck posted 12/24/2019 11:03 AM

I'm sorry too Thumos.

Alpargata posted 12/24/2019 11:22 AM

I'm so sorry, you deserve better than this. Don't stop now, see this through, you are loved and cared for.

Thumos posted 12/24/2019 11:38 AM

Hey guys thanks so much for everything. I never would have gotten this far from where I was in August without all of you (Iím not going anywhere - just want you to know how grateful I am). There have been no additional disclosures.

First I feel surprisingly peaceful and ok. Not unhappy thatís for sure. I was disappointed in the result but I was a little surprised I didnít take this harder than I thought I would. After the polygraph results, I grabbed some drinks (angelís envy bourbon) and some delicious sliders at a great restaurant with my best friend while my wife went back to our town.

What it means from my perspective is I no longer have to twist in the wind wondering what sheís hiding from me, etc. I mean why would I waste any more time doing the A Few Good men Men/Tom Cruise routine on this? Thatís much more freeing than I thought. I feel I can focus on me and my health and my wants and needs now and not devote so much time and energy to obsessing about this and engaging in psychic warfare trying to get her to move along. Iím fortunate to be blessed with the physique of a man half my age and itís suffered a bit this fall as Iíve traveled a bunch and really didnít feel motivated to hit the gym. Iím looking forward to hitting heavy weights again this holiday break, and as Ahnuld would say ďshock the muscles.Ē

Second, I am going to take some time to think. I have been relatively practical about this from day one ó even in the midst of shock and trauma ó and Iím going to continue that practical approach for my family. My heart and gut tell me sheís lying and canít bring herself to be fully transparent. The extra sex doesnít substantively matter as far as the facts (someone made a great point here about ďwhat does a few hummers in the APís truck matter once sheís brought him into your home for sex?) but it matters in terms of having a person I can reconcile with.

For me that means moving toward divorce. I am going to set up an appt for next week to discuss my options. This will have to be a slower divorce than I probably would want ó we are in some debt and have a large house we need to get ready to sell. Weíd need to do these things regardless of R or D so if she and I can at least work as a team in this regard it will enable us to divorce more smoothly.

Third, she is offering no explanation (edit: other than falling back on her anxiety). Sheís also not completely falling apart like I thought she would (and I donít know precisely how to interpret this - there could be a variety of explanations). She is sad and distraught, but not pressuring me to say what Iíll do. She is continuing to hold out the postnuptial agreement. Iíve told her I need time and space to think.

She is saying she is telling the truth, that she felt overwhelmingly anxious each time the ďone time sexĒ question was asked during the poly because Iíd asked it so many times before, because she could hardly breathe under the weight of what it might mean to fail, and because hearing her APís name makes her automatically anxious. I donít think this is an entirely unreasonable explanation given her diagnosed long time generalized anxiety disorder, but Iím confident in the poly examiner and he told me he hasnít seen such a starkly clear fail in awhile.

When Iíve had time to process, I will share more later about how the poly itself went down and my wifeís behavior leading up to it and during it ó since I could hear much of the discussion thru the door.

My wife is also saying she wants to do the poly again. I donít find a lot of merit in that after weíve already spent $1200 between the poly and disclosure session just to find out sheís lying. But I want to share with you all that she is saying she wants to take it again. For what itís worth I have talked to people whoíve had false fails on polys for other purposes. I know of someone who failed when they interviewed with the CIA bc they were nervous. So it does happen.

Iíll probably cut back in my therapy appts. Every week is expensive and I think I can process a lot of this with twice monthly or even just once a month check ins. My therapist knows she failed. Iíll be sharing the entire poly results report with my therapist.

Anyway last night I watched Die Hard with my 18 year old and found some of that Christmas Spirit when John McClane dumps an office chair packed with plastique explosives down an elevator shaft. Iím feeling ok, maybe better than ok and better than Iíve felt in awhile. I hope everyone has a very Merry Christmas.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:45 AM, December 24th (Tuesday)]

BraveSirRobin posted 12/24/2019 12:30 PM

For what itís worth I have talked to people whoíve had false fails on polys for other purposes. I know of someone who failed when they interviewed with the CIA bc they were nervous. So it does happen.
I think there's nothing wrong with thinking things through about your best course of action now that you know she's lying. I think there's a lot of damage to be done by trying to convince yourself that there's any chance, any chance at all, that she's telling the truth.

In my opinion, that's been her plan all along, to call your bluff and get you to believe her for literally no other reason than that you don't want to end the marriage. I predicted that the idea of a second poly would be floated and dismissed, and that anxiety would be her fallback explanation for however many times she takes it and fails. You were making pre-emptive excuses for her here several days ago, which is why I said twice to cancel it if you were just going to ignore the results.

If you want to accept that you'll never know what really happened between her and the AP, to let it lie and move forward, that's your call, man. Go, stay, it's up to you. But if you allow her to gaslight you into believing her ridiculous story, which has had your gut screaming for three years, after she got an unusually decisive failure on a test she did everything she could think of to avoid -- well, that's just refusing to face reality. And my personal view, informed by years of experience, is that it will not work in the long run. The unacknowledged pain won't go away. It will just find other, less healthy means of working its way out.

ETA: I struggled with the appropriateness of delivering even a mild 2x4 on Christmas Eve... but you're heading into some of the most family-oriented days of the year, realizing everything you have to lose by ending your marriage, and I think that could have a very strong influence on your thought process that you will need some hardheaded logic to counteract. I hope it didn't come across as kicking you when you're down. Truly, Thumos, although we have butted heads from time to time, I am pulling hard for you. I want you to see things clearly so that your choices are listening to and honoring your inner voice, not silencing it.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 12:38 PM, December 24th (Tuesday)]

crazyblindsided posted 12/24/2019 12:45 PM

(((Thumos))) I am so sorry for this outcome, but happy you are feeling better and wishing you a Happy Holiday and Joy to a new year!

Butforthegrace posted 12/24/2019 12:47 PM

BSR, I have to say you've been right about Mrs. Thumos from the beginning. As you note, Mrs. Thumos didn't "just fail" the poly. It was a decisive, 90%+ fail. Resounding, definitive fail.

I've not done any nosing around about false fails on polys, but my gut suggests that people who fail, but fall closer to the line of "maybe", would be candidates for this.

Stepping back from the poly, the storyline she tells Thumos feels oddly inconsistent with the bits of factual information he has been able to glean via his own investigation. I think BSR hits the nail on the head about this. I think it's why the MIL displayed such sorrow when learning that Thumos was moving ahead with the poly.

Thumos, please try to find peace in this holiday season.

Maybehurtforever posted 12/24/2019 13:00 PM

I have been following this thread without commenting but I really want to wish you the best. I understand the feeling that no path forward will feel ďright.Ē There is more pain to come no matter what you choose to do. I think you are wise for leaving yourself some time to let this information sit with you. Our brains and our hearts seem to work things out in their own time. Rushing a decision you arenít ready for isnít the answer. We all want to put an end to the pain as quickly as possible but with this kind of crap that has been thrown at us, there just isnít a quick and easy solution.

I hope you get some joy out of your holidays and maybe 2020 will bring you the peace you need and deserve.

sisoon posted 12/24/2019 13:49 PM

Ditto.

I think you know I have less faith in polys than I do in human lie detectors. You might consider a joint therapy session, if the therapist is willing to give you an idea of his/her evaluation of your W's truthfulness.

I think your plan will serve you well, with or without a joint session.

Thumos posted 12/24/2019 15:19 PM

I think there's a lot of damage to be done by trying to convince yourself that there's any chance, any chance at all, that she's telling the truth.

Donít worry thatís not happening. Because of my training as a former journalist Iím always inclined to mention all angles but Iím not thinking she failed bc of anxiety. She failed bc sheís lying.

Robert22205https posted 12/24/2019 18:38 PM

Perhaps I missed this but how were the questions worded?

Striver posted 12/24/2019 18:52 PM

But Iím living with someone who canít be truthful or transparent.

You nailed it. I am sorry.

When I think of your wife I think of Mary Tyler Moore in Ordinary People.

A genuine journey to remorsefulness is not easy for a WS. Post cheating, some are just not cut out to make the journey. I think your WW is one of these people.

KingofNothing posted 12/24/2019 23:15 PM

Honestly (I know I mentioned this in private Msg), I was probably the only one to extend her a little benefit of the doubt because I know the level of anxiety it causes. The process is kind of intimidating on purpose. Still, your guy seems totally confidant in the results. At some point you're going to have to have a more substantive discussion about what the future holds with your wife.

God bless, Thumos. You're a standup guy and I've appreciated your viewpoints on here. I hope you can find a next stage to your satisfaction. Merry Christmas.

Anyway last night I watched Die Hard with my 18 year old and found some of that Christmas Spirit when John McClane dumps an office chair packed with plastique explosives down an elevator shaft. Iím feeling ok, maybe better than ok and better than Iíve felt in awhile. I hope everyone has a very Merry Christmas.

Believe it or not, that's my Christmas gig with my son and has been these last 3 years. :-)

stolenyears posted 12/25/2019 00:21 AM

First, merry Christmas Thumos! And good call on the Angels Envy. Thatís my go to, and I am having some as I type!

So sorry for the results of the poly. I know you were looking for peace of mind and did not get that. After three years of stewing on this, for her to fail must take you back to d-day, and I am sorry you are experiencing this now. I hope you can find some peace and clarity this holiday season and figure out what you can and cannot tolerate. One of those things is continued lying. All the best to you brother.

Thumos posted 12/28/2019 17:15 PM

Didnít want people to think I had disappeared. Iíll be back with some more thoughts and info soon.

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