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I Guess I Will Never Know

BigMammaJamma posted 5/25/2019 07:17 AM

I didn’t just find out. My own story is an ongoing saga spanning a couple of years and I still don’t know what to believe. Being a prisoner of my own thoughts has been a special hell, one you cannot quite understand unless you have been through it. I have never posted on this site, but I have read it everyday religiously for a while now. I am honestly not a 100% sure I belong in this club.

It’s kind of strange, because while I am a stranger to all of you, there are some of you that I feel like I know and whose opinion I value (special shout out to ibonnie, I have a major lady platonic crush on you and 1stwife is my hero). I would like to tell you my story and I would like your honest feedback.

My husband and I were friends a couple of years before we started dating in 2013. We were both recently separated from spouses that we married way too young. Both of our stbx-spouses were dating other people and his xw was even pregnant with her new beau’s child. We both had two young children each and our circumstances were similar. On his birthday in 2013, he asked me to come have drinks with him to celebrate. I assumed all our friends would be there, but it turns out he had tricked me into a date! From them on, I can count on both hands how many nights we have spent away from each other.
We have had our share of problems, but I always appreciated how we have grown and matured together.

My husband has worked at the same office as a manager for the past 6 years. We share about our work frequently, and back in 2016 I remember him telling me that one of his reports (referred to as batshitcrazy from here on out) had seemingly went off the deep end. He shared that batshitcrazy came in to work with bandages around her wrists and had just been very emotional, unstable and overly reactive in the month or two surrounding this incident. Once he made that observation, he scheduled a one on one with her. He asked her how she was and provided her with EAP (Employee Assistance Program) information.

Around this same time, we decided to start trying for a baby. Getting pregnant wasn’t hard but staying pregnant was proving to be impossible. I had three miscarriages in a row. Each miscarriage was worse and more gruesome than the last. The last miscarriage (April 2017), I bled for three months straight. I had to take three rounds of Cytotec and when I still didn’t pass the “product of conception”, I had to have a DNC. It was a very hard journey and my husband struggled too. He often struggled with knowing what to say to comfort me. My OBGYN finally decided to pursue genetic testing and it turns out I have a hereditary condition that causes blood clots. I got pregnant again in August 2017 and my doctor prescribed me blood thinners.

I was about 8 weeks pregnant again (fourth time in October 2017) when I was on Facebook at work and I noticed I had a message inbox from someone who was not my friend. I did not recognize the name. The message simply read “Hello, my wife and your husband work together. I think we need to talk.” Cue my heart dropping into my intestines. Surely not. No way. My husband? I responded, and he said that he had discovered a lengthy facebook chat history between them and he suspects that they have an inappropriate relationship.

I immediately called my husband and asked him why the fuck batshitcrazy’s husband was calling me and what should I anticipate being told because I would rather hear it from him. Rookie mistake, I know, but I hadn’t had the insight from all of you yet. He sounded genuinely flummoxed. He stated that while he had had facebook conversations with her, none of it was inappropriate in his opinion. When I got home, I demanded to see his facebook and to have her phone number. I called her three times before she texted me and said “Who is this?” I said, “Hi Batshitcrazy, this is Big Mamma Jamma and we need to talk. You can call me back now or I can meet you at work tomorrow. Please let me know what is convenient.” I get a text about an hour later from Mr. Batshit and he said, “I want to apologize to you, BMJ. I read through the messages and while there was a lot there, it seemed pretty harmless.” Like wtf, I am barely pregnant, and I am pretty sure if I hadn’t been on Lovonox, I would have stroked out. For what? Because this crazy, over possessed husband read too much into his wife’s messages? I quickly got over it, chalking it up to getting dragged into someone else’s dysfunction. I thanked my lucky stars I didn’t have to deal with that and I got on with life.

My dear little sister happened to be pregnant too, about 10 weeks ahead of me. This was her first pregnancy, but because of my diagnosis, she got tested and found out she had the same issue. She had been on Lovonox, but for some unknown reason, her specialist took her off.

January 18th, my beloved little sister called me hysterical. She had gone to her obgyn and at 33 weeks (I was 23 weeks), they could not find a heart beat. My dear precious sister had lost her baby and I was still pregnant with mine. I took complete control, as she and her husband were paralyzed with grief and shock. I made all the medical decisions involving her delivery and recovery and I planned the funeral. On January 22, 2018, I was in the funeral home, flipping through a book with headstones and caskets when my phone buzzed. My eyes were already burning with tears, so I could barely read the message. It said, “Hi BMJ, I know you have probably suspected for a long time, but Mr. BMJ and I had a relationship from May 2017 – October 2017. I am sorry, I just thought you should know.” I closed the headstone book, excused myself to outside and started an exchange with her. She said she had proof. I asked her for the proof and she said hold on. While I was waiting on her proof I called my husband and unloaded. I had been going through a lot and I let him have it. Why is this bitch telling me you had sex? She said she has proof? What am I about to see?
All he had for me is adamant denials. I hung up on him and went back in because I had to get this baby’s funeral planned. Afterwards, batshitcrazy still had not sent me the proof. I reach out to her and say “You said you had proof.” She responds another hour later and sends me screenshots of facebook messages. It was gross and lame. Dorky, but disturbing nonetheless. It was sexual in nature, but embarrassingly unsexy. While it didn't sound like my husband, I was convinced he was boinking this 12 year old looking boy at work.

My daughter had some sort of junior high orientation thing that night, so I just never went home. I had the kids with me and I stayed out until about 9:00 pm when my husband texted me and said, “Please come home. I never had any type of relationship with batshit.” My tired pregnant ass had no place to go, so I went home. The kids went to bed and my husband immediately handed me his phone. It was open to the text messages and he had scrolled up all the way up until September 2017. Before I started reading, he said that they had fired her in September because her crazy started interfering with her performance.

So I started reading through these text messages. There were like 25 from her and then one from him. Thus went on for months. Her’s were like “I miss my friend”, “Why won’t you talk to me”, “I am sitting at so and so restaurant if you wanna meet me.” “Why are you ignoring me?” His were like “We were coworkers, that’s it. Now we are not even that. Please stop messaging me.” Then she would be like, “why are you being such an asshole?” “I just want to be your friend”. "I just want my friend back". As I scrolled and got closer and closer to the present, my husband said “what does your husband think of you pursuing other men?” and she took that as a threat and that is when she started messaging me on FB. At this time, it seemed like he really was a victim of some crazy bunny boiler who set her sights on the first person who showed she cared. As far as her proof was concerned, my husband maintained he did NOT have those conversations and there are apps that will help you create a fake conversation. I buried it and tried to believe him.

I had our baby in May 2018. I felt so gross. I had the figure of a bean bag and massive leaky tits. My long curly hair just look like a fuzzy nest and my hygiene was barely passable. My husband had passed out for a nap, and I do not know what compelled me, but I started going through his phone. Nothing immediately suspicious showed up so I searched “batshitcrazy” and three numbers came up. Each had been blocked. From what I could tell, it looked like she was sending texts from one number, then he blocked it. Then she would start from another number. She was sending nudes and pathetic pleas for attention. From my limited knowledge, it did not appear as though he responded other than a few times to tell her it was not wanted.
I had enough. Why is this bitch still pursuing him? I sent the nude pic to myself. I created a group text (I still had their phone numbers from the first incident) with Mr and Mrs Batshitcrazy and I sent the photo with “Uh oh, it looks like you accidently sent this picture to my husband instead of yours. I thought you might want it back. I have to say I was relieved it was you, because when I first saw it, I thought my husband had a picture of a naked 12 year old boy.” Her husband messaged me back and asked if I
had anything else. I sent him everything I had. She blocked us on FB and I haven’t heard from her since.
Fast forward to now and I want so hard to believe my husband. I have read so many of y’all’s stories and my husband said many of the same thing your waywards said. “It isn’t what you think” “She is crazy” “I only want you” I just keep thinking to myself that nobody just up and starts being a crazy stalker. But women who have been wronged do that kind of shit. I totally believe that this lady is unhinged, I just have a hard time believing that nothing occurred between them to lead to this. But then, I think “What if he really did nothing wrong and I throw everything away?” One major thing is I don’t know why he didn’t share with me while it was going on. Why did he keep this from me. He says he was scared for the baby, but I KNOW I would have shared something like this with him.
I guess I will never know. Please tell me what you think. It is a long story like all of yours and I am sure I have left out important details.

BraveSirRobin posted 5/25/2019 08:40 AM

Hi BigMammaJamma,

Welcome to SI. Since you've been lurking for a bit, you probably know that it can be quiet on weekends, and even more so on holiday weekends. You might not hear a lot of responses right away, but I'm sure you will get a warm reception and lots of feedback soon.

I just wanted to say that I cannot imagine what it must have been like to deal with a high risk pregnancy and your sister's loss at the same time as messages from batshitcrazy. I lost twins to complications of prematurity -- they survived for just a few days -- and then had three ectopic pregnancies, including one IVF ectopic. I was pregnant 8 times altogether to have my three surviving children. It about broke me, and this was without having to face potential infidelity or hold my shit together for the rest of my family. Just the fact that you're still sane and coherent after surviving all this is a testament to you being one tough mama.

I will leave it to the BS community to weigh in on your story, unless there's something useful I can contribute later on. Right now, I just wanted to give you a virtual hug.


BigMammaJamma posted 5/25/2019 09:54 AM

Hello BraveSirRobin! Not to be a creep (cue Radiohead), but I feel like I already know you. I have really appreciated your perspective and hearing your story. I am very sorry to hear of your own personal baby struggles, thank you for sharing. It has had a profound impact on me as a person and I know I have changed going through it. Funny-I always having see you people internet hugging each other back and forth, but I didn't realize just how good it felt. ((((((BraveSirRobin))))))

cocoplus5nuts posted 5/25/2019 10:17 AM

If you have nothing that shows he was on any way encouraging her or anything else, I say chalk it up to batshitcrazy lost her shit. There are crazy stalkers her make up entire relationships in their heads and believe them. If she had proof that your H had done anything, she would've sent it to you. From what you have posted here, I am inclined to believe your H.

DesertLily posted 5/25/2019 11:22 AM

Hi, BMJ! Welcome to SI. Sending you big, virtual hugs. (((BMJ)))

First let me say that you have my deepest condolences for the losses of both you and your sister. Such tragedy, such pain. Your strength through that experience is remarkable. You have my admiration.

As for batshitcrazy, I think she's just that. She seemed to take an awful long time to send you proof she was so eager to share. She could very well have been using that time to create "proof."

You said yourself that the messages didn't sound like your H. The messages I read absolutely sounded like my WH, no question about it.

And while, yes, your H could have erased past messages, he couldn't have created the "NC" messages post D and inserted into the thread to make it appear as if he never encouraged her.

Plus, he had her blocked multiple times across multiple numbers.

Some people are stalkers. She sounds unstable enough to be one.

I wish you much peace and happiness on your healing journey.

sisoon posted 5/25/2019 12:30 PM

What is your gut telling you? Does it tell you to believe your H?

Is something beside infidelity a problem in your life right now?

Tallgirl posted 5/25/2019 13:17 PM


I am sorry for what you have been through. What a difficult time.

My first thoughts are that your husband is not cheating. I do think you might benefit from MC though. I see MC as a healthy activity overall.

Your husband should have told you this was going on immediately. And kept you aware throughout. Hiding anything in a marriage is not a good idea. I think MC would be worth your time and it will give you a good sense of what he was thinking and help reassure you.

If you have been reading here for awhile you have learned what to look for.

Take care of yourself and that beautiful 👶 baby. Hugs.

Marz posted 5/25/2019 13:36 PM

Text messages can be deleted. If you want to get to the bottom of it have recovery done on his phone. Fonelab is top rated.

I'd get it done if you don't know how. He could be telling you the truth but you need the peace of mind.

You can also go online download his data and see how much he was texting calling her or was it just one sided.

The big problem here is you just don't know.

Spend the time and effort. It will pay off with your peace of mind.

The1stWife posted 5/25/2019 13:58 PM

Big MammaJamma. Thank you for the kind words. I am here to be helpful and provide support.

I remember the song She’s A Bad Mamna Jamma - yiu will go from Big to Bad lol

I do not think your H cheated. Stupid for not telling you what was going on but I don’t think he crossed any lines. I don’t think he would put his job in jeopardy. And she sounds like she has many problems and patches on to anyone who is nice to her.

FWIW my H’s 4 year EA - he was not in love with her. Ever. He just enjoyed the attention and viewed her strictly as a friend. She viewed him as much more than that. And I told him from the first moment o met him to watch himself.

Where my H made his mistake was not being honest about their interaction (this was before cell phones ). He also disrespected me by continuing the interaction after denying it was inappropriate and stonewalling me. He knew it was wrong all along.

I think I you need to explain to your H if this happens again, He should be honest. This way you will have no doubts.

He sounds like he was looking out for your health.

Say prayers of thanks for your H and children and enjoy them. As you know they grow fast and I look back fondly on the days when i read books and tucked them in at night.

I think you had a scare and luckily false alarm. I think BSCrazy woman has mental problems and hopefully she will stop her behavior. Or move on and get some help.

Charity411 posted 5/25/2019 14:43 PM

BMJ, I'm so sorry for all your miscarriages. I've been there and it's hard. It was hard on your husband too, so for that reason I can understand why he didn't tell you about what was happening while you were pregnant again. He probably had fears of losing another one too.

I have a stalker. While it's somewhat different, in that I was in a relationship with him at one time, it is 18 years since I completely cut off contact with him and took him to court for stalking and harassment, and he pursues me still periodically. He is bat shit crazy. The most recent attempt was about 2 years ago, when he sent me a painting that he claimed was a portrait of me in Poland in the 1800s as a young girl. The letter that accompanied the painting was crazy. And even more crazy is that it was right at the start of his run for US Congress. He lost thank God.

The point is, I have had no feelings whatsoever for this man for probably 22 years. It took me 4 years and a lot of crap to get the nerve to take him to court. I have done absolutely nothing to encourage this attention. Not one thing. And yet it persists. I have to be constantly aware. So I believe your husband when he says he didn't do anything to cause this. I know that is very possible.

There are people who completely imagine an entire relationship in their heads. I knew a married guy in his late 20s who suddenly decided he was in a relationship with a national TV station news anchor. He insisted she was sending him messages on the papers in front of her during news casts. More than once security had to remove him from the studio where he would show up unannounced. He came to my house once and began telling me that he was in a battle of good against evil and he had to save her from the satanists that she worked with. After he left, I immediately went somewhere else and called the authorities. I was visited by two FBI agents the next day who actually showed me a picture of him for identification. They were already aware of him.

So just know this is possible. And if this is what is happening it's not his fault.

cocoplus5nuts posted 5/25/2019 15:53 PM

I'm sorry for all your miscarriages, too. I had at least 7. Found out I had a genetic disorder, too. Luckily, I only had to take low dose aspirin instead of lovenox. I know how it feels, though. ((Hugs))

BigMammaJamma posted 5/25/2019 16:29 PM

I really appreciate you all reading my story and giving me your feedback.

Sisoon- my gut has been very confused. There have been other events, depending on perspective could be weird isolated events or a pattern of behavior.

1. He had an affair in his first marriage. He had asked his wife for a divorce two times. She begged and begged for him to stay, but he said it was like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. His affair partner was not a winner, he was just absolutely miserable and did not deal with it well. I am on very good terms with his exwife. She and I talk frequently and she has more or less confirmed his story about asking for a divorce several times.

2. After he had told me he had had an affair on his first wife, I became a little snoopy. This was like maybe a year into our relationship. He were only dating, not married. If he fell asleep while I was using his tablet, I checked his trash can in his email. One time I found an ashleymadison email and I was able to log in to his account. He had created the account after his separation and before me and from what I could tell, always had a trial subscription and never messaged anyone. I confronted him about it and he told me he didn't remember creating the account, but deleted it immediately. He had used a common password that he always uses so it was easy for me to hack.

3. Our first New Year's Eve, we stayed home. I fell asleep early after he and I got into a stupid argument. I was snooping through his messages later, and he had messaged some girl he went to high school with simply "hey pretty lady". She never responded and that was all that said. It seems petty I guess, except he messaged her at like 1:30 am. Like what normal human being with good intentions does that. I confronted him and he said he understood why I was upset and said he would never do that again. As far as I can tell, he hasn't.

On the other hand, he gave me the password to his phone a couple years ago and does not act weird about it ever. Before we were together, he hung out with his friends every night and never came home. With me, he basically ditched his friends group. In fact, he never ever goes out anymore. All the things that happened above happened like in the first 18 months of us being together and I haven't really had any potential red flags since.

Batshitcrazy said things like "I am so glad you are trying to work things out with your wife" and then would send him a naked picture. It was very clear from her texts and emails and messages that he was not responded because often her messages were about him not responding.

I will never be able to prove that he did not have an affair, you know? That's not how it works, you can't prove something didn't happen. You can only prove that it did and I haven't been able to conclusively do that.

Also-- he has been hit on several times in FB messenger by some seriously questionable women who know he is married. Okay, maybe just twice. But most recently (in march and april), but the alley cat he cheated on his first wife with. He was polite but cold. He didn't delete this messages and I was able to see when I did my routine sanctioned snooping. He didn't reciprocate, but he didn't shut her ass down like I would have if it was me. Ever since I got married, I have learned how to project that I am unavailable. I do not get hit on, like ever. I get checked out, sure, but never hit on. Why are these women throwing themselves at him? What kind of vibe is he putting out there?

I feel kind of like I am rambling at this point...

[This message edited by BigMammaJamma at 4:30 PM, May 25th (Saturday)]

weddingbelle posted 5/27/2019 23:26 PM

Hi BigMammaJamma,

Hugs to you. Infidelity is defined as the keeping of secrets. My husband didn't have a PA, as far as I know, but definitely at least one EA along with porn abuse and financial infidelity. Like you, I'll probably never know everything. I find myself here because those here understand and are supportive of those who've been betrayed. Betrayal is betrayal. What is your gut telling you? I think that's where I'd begin. So sorry for all you've been through and wish you peace and a path to take.

knockedforsix posted 5/28/2019 01:44 AM

Hi BMJ in my case I was contacted by WH’s Batshitcrazy AP. I got denials and told she is nuts too. That said he had already been inappropriate a few years before (EA and kissing) so I was aware of SI. I made so many mistakes Eg not using a VAR but I did know about Dr Fone. Long story but after using the app I found msgs from my Batshitcrazy harassing him but other ‘nice’ ones.

Yep turns out there was a 4.5 year lta with the ‘nice’ one which I had NO idea about. He cheated on both of us with Batshitcrazy with a ons and she turned stalker crazy who thought they were destined to each other’s one true love (gag). She stalked him for 3.5 years all while he carried on with the other (long distance). This is why she contacted me - in hope that I would leave. After DD he ghosted her and then I became public enemy number one. She stalked and harassed me. In the end police and lawyers were involved. I have moved and WH has changed numbers but I still look over my shoulder. That’s said if she hadnt reached out I would never have found out about the lta.

Upshot is your husband was NOT transparent. I believed my husband initially despite the earlier incidents. Why didn’t he tell you about this and the repeated contacts. All of the data I read said this obsessive behaviour often comes from some sort of former intimate relationships. Now he may just have been nice to her at work or it could have been flirty behaviour or worse but if it’s all innocent then what is the harm in asking for a polygraph to give you peace of mind. Just watch your back with her and don’t hesitate to take definitive action to get her to leave you both alone.

[This message edited by knockedforsix at 1:48 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)]

Bobbi_sue posted 5/28/2019 02:54 AM

Polygraphs are not accurate, especially for this type of thing, and you won't be any closer to getting the truth than you are now if you suggest your H take one.

I would keep an open mind for any signs in the future that he may be lying, or may have lied in the past because I have the perspective that no human being should be trusted 100%. But after saying that, I will tell you that batshit stalkers exist. My H and I met because of one. He was single at the time (she was married) and she would find his truck every weekend and "join" him (at a bar) and impose her "friendship" upon him. It was a case where he started to know she wanted more than friendship but he never really verbalized or admitted it and instead of shutting her down the way we all think he should in hindsight, he just did his best to avoid her, like the night he went out of town and met me.

Then we started dating and quickly fell in love. This woman was still calling him (before days of cell phones) and he would take her calls in front of me, or tell me about them when she called. Neither of us had the wisdom at the time to realize she needed to be seriously shut down. We sort of laughed about it. She'd also bring him and his DD delicious food, which my kids and I ate as much of, or more than he and his DD. We laughed because she was a good cook and was too stupid to know she was being laughed at.

He'd tell her he was in love, and she'd get angry and told him that I wore my pants too tight. H would tell me these things and we'd laugh.

But of course it was more complicated and everybody involved handled it wrong back then. Her DD and H's DD were friends and had sleepovers at each other's houses and such. Well, I was a little more perceptive about this than H and I saw that though his DD liked the woman's DD they were not naturally friends nor were they best friends. Yet, DD was always getting gifts and cards from her "friend" (the woman's DD). The invitations for sleepovers increased too. I saw it was part of the stalker's stalker use the girls.

When stalker learned we were engaged she sent him a card, which yes he showed me. She begged him not to marry me and talked about "all we could have had, and can have together" and signed it "Your Little Farm Girl."

Well, that signature came from somewhere and yes my H was the type who would call people a little farm girl as an endearment, so yes I have to acknowledge at some point he must have said something that made this woman feel like she was "his little farm girl." But we cannot expect our spouses to be perfect or always know what to do in these situations. We can learn for the future but I don't think you or I should judge our spouse for not correctly and completely shutting down, and maybe even initially encouraging in some way though they may not have realized they were doing that at the time.

I am sure my H never had an A with that woman, or if there was anything inappropriate at all, it occurred before I met him and he truly met me because he was trying to avoid her. I am not going to spend my life judging a man for something he did before he met me. Don't want to take this too far off track with my story so I will just end this saying she stalked during the first two years of our M and it got more serious. It was me who finally put a stop to it. We look back and both my H and I know he should have been the one to get firm and mean and put a stop to it. But life is a journey and we live and learn, or at least try to!

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 3:04 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)]

Edie posted 5/28/2019 03:56 AM

I think it is more likely your H is naive and stupid to have conducted any kind of Fb contact with her but do not think it sounds like he has cheated or has any intention of doing so (sounds like the 1.30 am text was drunken stupidity also). However, he seems a little too calm about the stalker and that is sending my spidey senses a little tingly. Difficult to tell from your brief history how much you two have discussed the matter... perhaps he did in some ways lead her on in early days, enjoying either the flirtation, as some kind of escape from baby worries, or the ego boost, perhaps seemingly ‘innocently’ but enough to get her fantasies whipped up. It sounds like he may have boundary issues so reading Shirley Glasses ‘Not Just Friends’ would be very helpful for him to understand the slippery slope. The Fb dialogue sounds like it was at the top of the slope even if he didn’t realise that.

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