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11 year update

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Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/5/2019 10:26 AM

Curious, we both agreed she had broken trust beyond repair.
She didnít fight me in court. I kept my 401K etc. she was entitled to half.

Sew, I completely disagree that infidelity can improve a marriage.

LtCdrLost posted 4/5/2019 10:41 AM

Sew, I completely disagree that infidelity can improve a marriage.

Wish, I believe that statement to be a profound truth. The idea that reconciling oneself to having sexually shared ones spouse somehow improves a marriage is to me, ludicrous.

[This message edited by LtCdrLost at 10:42 AM, April 5th (Friday)]

sewardak posted 4/5/2019 10:55 AM

so everyone here in reconciliation is??

Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/5/2019 11:43 AM

so everyone here in reconciliation is??

...living their own lives on their own terms and what theyíre willing to accept. No judgement.
But Iíll say this. Thereís truth to the old saying. The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior.
Personally I come to realize I set the bar too low for what is exeptible in marriage so I reset the bar.

[This message edited by Wishiwasnthereto at 11:44 AM, April 5th (Friday)]

ErinHa posted 4/5/2019 12:08 PM

I know what you mean, I stayed for the kids for 13 years but we both pursued other relationships and never really tried after the first few attempts to reconcile.

I still don't know at this point if I did the right thing, but we did finally get divorced last year. We had 3 children under 5 at DDAY. It was hard. I'm grateful for every minute I've had with them though, and unlike what you went through, I was also kinda "free" to pursue my own life as my WS was too.

It sucks so bad, I'm sorry for your pain. Hopefully the kids benefitted from you staying together, that is worth a lot.

Curious9 posted 4/5/2019 13:21 PM

That is great she didn't touch your retirement. Its really great she did not fight you. I am really sorry you had to go through it again.


fareast posted 4/5/2019 13:30 PM

I appreciate your perspective given your experience. It sounds like you gave her every chance and she failed and she knows it. I respect your opinion that the old M is dead and like crumpled paper in the wastebasket. But in my experience once I called pff the D and we decided to R, we created a whole new bright clean page with wonderful memories. Based on my experience I would say that reconciliation is living life together on our own terms and enjoying a loving committed relationship for forty years with no regrets. I would never say that infidelity made our M better. But I will say that post A the work we both put into ourselves made for a much improved M.

[This message edited by fareast at 4:18 PM, April 5th (Friday)]

survrus posted 4/5/2019 15:45 PM

Wish,

Financial,Romantic,Emotional, Physical or Sexual infidelity, they are all based on lies and omissions.

Most folks will forgive some Financial Infidelity provided it is not preceded by Sexual Infidelity.

ramius posted 4/5/2019 16:06 PM

Wish, I believe that statement to be a profound truth. The idea that reconciling oneself to having sexually shared ones spouse somehow improves a marriage is to me, ludicrous.

How bad must a marriage have been, for an affair and the damage caused by it, to be an improvement?

I guess if you swapped out a severe kidney infection for a broken ankle it might seem like an improvement. But a broken ankle to occur when there was not one before seems like a downgrade to me.

Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/5/2019 18:23 PM

Ram, I totally agree. My point in making this post is not to discourage reconciliation efforts to those who have just found out. I just want them to know the risk involved. The trust has been broken. Itís VERY hard to repair that.

sewardak posted 4/5/2019 18:45 PM

It has been very worthwhile to repair that.,

Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/5/2019 19:01 PM

And I would have said the same 12 months ago.

amethyst0323 posted 4/6/2019 00:08 AM

"How bad must a marriage have been, for an affair and the damage caused by it, to be an improvement?"

I don't know how to quote a post so forgive me for copying the above like I have.

My marriage before the affair wasn't bad. There was a lot of good in it but there was also a lot of taking each other for granted and putting our kids first for the last 15 years, whilst neglecting our relationship.

I am still new the aftermath of the affair at nearly 1 year out and I am frustrated and angry at the things the affair took from our relationship like complete trust but I can honestly say as difficult as this journey is there are improvements in my marriage. We communicate better than we have done for years, we no longer take each other from granted and we put our relationship as a priority now.

Will it keep going like it is at the minute. Who knows. But I do know that his affair gave us both a massive wake up call and we both want to repair it and improve it. Yes there are things that we will never get back but there are things that have improved too undoubtably. We will never have the same marriage that's true, but to be honest I don't want that marriage back.


People can and do change. It is incredibly unfair to throw a phrase around that someone's wayward spouse will never change because it simply isn't true. People have to follow there own journies and find there own paths.

I read posts on here that say about staying with a ws for children, money, whatever, that then say things like "I can't stand them," "I will never have sex with them again," and "I can't bear to be around them. If someone stays in a relationship like this then sadly that is doomed because it isn't a marriage. Successful reconciliation takes a WS who put the work in, self reflect and work on making themselves a better person but it also takes a BS to want the marriage to work, it takes a bs who is willing to work through their pain and help push a marriage forward.

Reconciliation isn't right for everyone and there are obviously WS'S who never change but to recreate a successful marriage it needs two people who love, two people who care and two people who genuinely want to fix their marriage.

People can change and marriages can work after affairs. I have no idea if mine will or won't but I hope it does because there is still an awful lot of good in my marriage.

Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/6/2019 13:56 PM

Ame, not to minimize what youíve been through but my post was specifically about Women cheating. When Men cheat itís usually for sex. When a Woman cheats I believe itís more emotional and much more damaging to the marriage. Both are wrong of course. If I ever get married again there certainly wouldnít be an second chances. Best of luck to you.

SpeedBump posted 4/6/2019 14:16 PM

Chanceatlife35, I didn't think Waywards were allowed to post here.

Hurtbeyondtime posted 4/6/2019 15:44 PM

MamaDragon..
I hear you .. Iím in the same boat.. Every time I get that gut feeling and start checking I find he chatting with some bitch!
We argued 2 weeks ago because he was emailing and chatting Instagram etc. I said we should D and he was like fine I do great...
I was like well Iím in debt with this new house and car and I paid off his car etc. He was like I donít want money or the house .. I asked him how was he going to pay his portion of the house.. looked at me and said Iím not you deal with it if you want it! I was so angry.. That MFker.. we had to move because of him! I was fine in our old home. Our DD lives with us so it complicates things to just sell.


You will always always have doubts and unless the WS really transparent and really working itís not worth staying together.
I would have healed much quicker if I had D - 10 years ago but our DD was very young and crying when I tried kicking him out. If I only knew then what I know now I could have avoided pain and suffering for both me and our DD because he used her for his PA.

So for you newbies!!!
If no kids Divorce Divorce Divorce-run away

Hurtbeyondtime posted 4/6/2019 15:48 PM

Speedbump!! You are right not sure what Cheatatlife35 is doing posting here!

LostInTheDesert posted 4/6/2019 16:21 PM

If your spouse wants a divorce for some frivolous reason you are probably better off without her anyway.

If she wants a divorce for a frivolous reason, she had no business accepting the marriage proposal in the first place.

NotTheManIwas posted 4/6/2019 17:05 PM

Wishiwasnthereto, thanks for posting this. You are not the first to say the work of R just isn't worth it. That its a bad gamble for your remaining years. I keep reading story after story of men remaining deeply unhappy long into R even when their WW makes what appears genuine and concerted efforts.

I'm also among those who can't see it as a binary R or D decision. Lots of other familial considerations. But three years after Dday and I find myself... just not caring much. Looking at her with different eyes and thinking "Damn, girl, you really aren't all that. Why was I ever under your spell?" (and I was)

Guess after all the reading here on SI, I keep coming back to remind myself that mine just isn't that unique an experience. I hate admitting that I take solace in that.

ETA: Just want to say congrats on pursuing closure.

[This message edited by NotTheManIwas at 5:08 PM, April 6th (Saturday)]

marriageredux959 posted 4/6/2019 17:17 PM

I'm going to give this a very, very conditional/qualified "yes," the revelation of an affair has the potential to improve a marriage-

NOT the affair itself, but the work done afterwards if both parties are sincere.

Some of you know that I've posted (ahem) strongly about Husband's one, limited, nearly anonymous physical indiscretion many years ago. He 'fessed up at the time- sort of. He significantly minimized. We had two small children and we were in the process of realizing significant goals for our young family. In the interest of the kids and family goals, I rug swept like a champ. I'm an over achiever and rug sweeping was no exception.

Several months ago, some additional detail about this ages old incident came tumbling out in a random conversation- Husband forgot he'd given me Narrative Lite many years earlier. He was surprised at my glib, superficial, naive narrative and understanding of the thing and he actually outed himself.

All hell broke loose here when I realized exactly what he'd done, and that he was not just a passive recipient of unsolicited attention.

It's been a process, and after the initial disclosure several months ago Husband immediately retreated to minimizing. I did not rug sweep this time- I pursued and ran it to ground. I was relentless.

(I ended up knowing more detail than I really need to know- mind movies for miles, for months- that's why I always advise newly BSs to consider detailed disclosure, especially about sexual/physical infidelity, under the guidance of a professional therapist who specializes in infidelity.)

Husband had to unpack this old incident and face it head on himself for the first time since it actually happened.

My major concern was not the incident itself, which was relatively mild, but the timing of it (HOW COULD HE? the timing vs. concurrent events and context was seriously a thing for me) and the mindset that allowed him to step over that bright line.

In examining the mindset, and also the minimizing, and putting it in context with other behaviors and choices and attitudes over the years, I *finally* got traction with Husband with a LOT of issues- not just the one incident of physical infidelity.

We unpacked and examined MANY things, things that were informed by the same attitudes and mindset that contributed to the cheating.

Husband doesn't act out immaturely anymore, hasn't really for years, but again, much of the mindset was still there, unchallenged and unchanged.

Husband knew that he never wanted to step over that line again immediately after the incident was over, many years ago, and he never did- but beyond the most obvious, superficial reasons he never really examined the mindset that got him into the deep end of a pool in a sketchy neighborhood in the first place.

I should probably post an update in reconciliation but despite my caterwauling on SI (and perhaps because of it, particularly some of the latest posts) we've made significant progress here.

Husband is walking the walk. He's making choices in the best interest of the marriage rather than continuing to rely on me and on the marriage to make the best of his decisions on his own behalf, or to be a support and infrastructure resource for him while he pursues his own interests and agendas. Some of that support is normal and expected, but we'd gotten way out of balance here as a result of emphasizing his goals and an unspoken agreement that they would always take priority.

I doubt we would have ever had the difficult, often strongly confrontational conversations we've had since DDay 2 had it not been for further revelations about that long ago incident. I doubt I would have come out swinging (figuratively) the way I did without that particular impetus.

I can and have put up with a lot of one way, selfish, self-centered, immature behavior without thinking too much about it. I compromised because Husband has, overall/in the balance been a good, responsible and giving Husband. What he took in some areas he gave back generously in others. But I did let the areas of compromise get to such an extreme that they were unquestioned and out of balance- and that did need to be corrected.

Physical infidelity is/was an absolute deal breaker for me- no matter how mild/insignificant. All of the sudden my tolerance of a variety of selfish, myopic behaviors was revoked. All bets were off.

Finding out that physical infidelity had actually occurred years before was almost a deal breaker even now- but it thankfully, ended up being a game changer instead.

I have both the advantage and the disadvantage of a lot of years in between the incident and the more complete discovery. There is enough transparency baked into our OS here that it's very easy for me to believe that Husband never stepped over that line again- so there's that. I believe he was immediately ashamed and remorseful.

I don't know that it would be so easy to transition from revelation to relationship improvement for a recent infidelity, in which there wasn't a built in track record of no repeat incidents. I can see how that would present a particular challenge.

P.S. I should add that Husband is not in Marriage Jail. I can be surprisingly open minded about many things, including sexual expression and experience, given safe, sane, informed, legal consent by all parties, including me. His arousal, his sexuality, and his experience of sex are his own as a discreet, enfranchised, independent adult. What blew me out of the water, and what he had to face and with which he had to come to terms, was that he engaged in sexual contact with another woman without my knowledge and prior consent, and with every intent of not telling me. He was well on his way to doing just that- but the guilt and shame were killing him and his face gave him away. When I confronted him directly, years ago, he 'fessed up, sort of, see above.

Another silver lining in this cloud- and this one we discovered years ago, thankfully- is that it's not necessary to hide this part of his sexuality from me. Our boundaries are actually remarkably similar- what feels safe, healthy and sane for each of us is pretty much spot on for both of us. So if he's craving that experience, telling me/inviting me to join in works. :)

I will add this as well, neither of us is burdened with sex addiction, so it's not like any craving or impulse is problematic or out of control. I would not expect the spouse of a person with sexual impulsivity disorder to be as sanguine about this stuff as I am, nor would I expect any spouse to compromise boundaries or integrity or to do something with which he/she is not comfortable.

[This message edited by marriageredux959 at 5:31 PM, April 6th (Saturday)]

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