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11 year update

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Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/9/2019 14:45 PM

True, but then we're not talking about a betrayal, are we.

Iím glad someone here gets it.

sewardak posted 4/9/2019 14:49 PM

"Good point. And almost as insulting as the posts marginalizing the opposing view and saying that men who think that way should change their thinking. Because, you know, there can only be one right answer."

and yet, this site is called surviving infidelity.

by the way, the poster said "any man" not "some men." so the men here in recovery are wrong?

[This message edited by sewardak at 2:51 PM, April 9th (Tuesday)]

sleepylove posted 4/9/2019 14:54 PM

Those here happily in R arenít going around making overblown generalizations that everyone who has experienced infidelity with a WW will be happily able to R.

Great point fareast. SMH at the lack of empathy sometime. I hope people find peace no matter how they choose to attain it.

Cooley2here posted 4/9/2019 14:58 PM

When you discuss never forgetting then you are talking about the entire human race. No one EVER forgets an insult. Cheating is the ultimate insult. Of course you will never forget it. I have a favorite question I ask people when we have these kinds of discussions. ďĒWhen was the last time someone insulted you or hurt your feelings?Ē People can remember from 30 years ago. Insults never go away. They are stored in that mental box that also stores revenge fantasies. Life goes on. You either deal with it one way or another. Some marriages are worth keeping, some are not. It all depends on individual personalities. What one can live with another can not.
What I would not tolerate is being married to someone who verbally belittled me. Those would be insults that would have me packing my bags.

timespent posted 4/9/2019 15:04 PM

Dicks in vaginas or vaginas accepting dicks? Betrayal fucking sucks. You know what else sucks? Generalizations that suggest one is worse than the other! Wake the fuck up, no one here wants to win this competition.

wifehad5 posted 4/9/2019 15:15 PM

That's why this is one of our Guidelines:

GENERAL STATEMENTS: Please refrain from making statements that generalize gender, WS/OP/BS, race, religion or political alignment. Also do not presume to speak on behalf of other people.

Speaking for yourself is fine. Telling your opinion is fine if done respectfully. Speaking for other people, or saying your way is the only way is not okay.

Scoobydoo posted 4/9/2019 15:31 PM

For myself I have actually found this thread very helpful,
different opinions & perspectives have given me lots to think about SO THANK YOU

I'm in 180 atm, but its not looking good, for me the scales keep tipping on a daily basis to D, why should I waste more of my valuable time when he didn't consider my wishes wants & dreams when he had his last ONS, I do have a thread with my circumstances for all to see & the feedback from it has been amazing for strength, focus, & other strategies but I really have found perspectives here very insightful bc they haven't actually been about my again thank you

Your welcome
OMG best of luck in that dating site..
Now that really does scare me!!

"Really he knows another man put his dick in his wife & he's ok with that?" actually made me chuckle :)

NotTheManIwas posted 4/9/2019 15:33 PM

by the way, the poster said "any man" not "some men." so the men here in recovery are wrong?

This is cherry picking and intellectually dishonest.

What the hell, I love this, need a break from what I'm doing, and I'll bite.

Firstly, the man who said this made this full quote...

Staying together and happily married are two very different things.

Massive generalization warning. Any man who has been betrayed at the highest level possible by his wife has resentment that will never fully go away. He may bury it but deep down heís thinking You Whore! How dare you.

So let's unpack this, shall we?

The first sentence addresses the fact that not all R's are ideal. Its that notion, much like mine, where the R serves a purpose beyond a loving relationship where mitigating factors are important to the betrayed. In fact, keep in mind that the OP did, in fact, attempt R and posted an update on it's failure.

Further, he has qualified his observations multiple times, I might add, with "my personal experience." He goes on to ponder the efficacy of R given the likelihood of the marriage resulting in just "staying together." Particularly, when someone like LtCdrLost hasn't lost the same time in life by acting decisively when the shoe initially dropped.

Lastly, he prefaces the "any man" comment with "Massive Generalization Warning." He, at least, by that admission, was intellectually honest enough with that preface to communicate that it doesn't apply to everyone.

No where does he ever say that those in R recovery are wrong.

Break over...

[This message edited by NotTheManIwas at 3:36 PM, April 9th (Tuesday)]

Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/9/2019 16:27 PM

Thank you very much nottheman. That post revived my faith in humanity. Itís easy to pile on the messager. I know this is a touchy subject. I understand the somewhat hostile reaction by those putting in the effort to R. Again, this post wasnít for them but the new members here. Iíve been thru Hell. For them itís just begun. This site has been a blessing for me over the years. Iíd like to give just a little feed back if I can by sharing my story and what Iíve learned. Itís just my opinion. Take it or leave it. Iím not saying youíre a sucker or you try R. Iím one of you. You may live happily ever after but you will be an anomaly I believe. Sorry . I say go for it if thereís hope! Oh a special shout out to Scooby, youíre awesome! Warm wishes.

[This message edited by Wishiwasnthereto at 5:11 PM, April 9th (Tuesday)]

Scoobydoo posted 4/9/2019 17:39 PM

Thank you, ditto

sewardak posted 4/9/2019 18:15 PM

"This is cherry picking and intellectually dishonest."

I disagree. I think it's calling someone on their crap and what this site does not support - generalizations. Even if you preface what you're saying as a generalization, that doesn't negate the fact that its a generalization and you perhaps get your hand slapped.

We'll just have to disagree. I think some men do get over it. My close family member has. Many here have. Saying the word "any" and then using the word whore to describe their wife well, it's just plain wrong, IMO.

Wishiwasnthereto posted 4/9/2019 18:30 PM

Sew, reading comprehension is key here. Ex Wife! Iím not here to argue by the way. Please educate me. With all do respect. What would you call a married married woman having to sex with a married man if not Whore.? Iím all ears.

[This message edited by Wishiwasnthereto at 6:36 PM, April 9th (Tuesday)]

HouseOfPlane posted 4/9/2019 19:05 PM

WIWHT, props for putting your kids first and giving them a warm nest. Iíd jump on a hand grenade or donate most of my organs for mine. Bet you would too.

Props for trying to R, too. It is a slog uphill in a blizzard, and took courage to even try. You put your Self at risk trying. That takes balls.

Sending (more) strength!

NotTheManIwas posted 4/9/2019 19:27 PM

WIWHT, enjoyed your blunt observations. Good thread.

fareast posted 4/9/2019 20:32 PM

wifehad5 absolutely nailed it. Thank you. Very well stated.

That being said, Wishiwasnthereto I absolutely agree with everything HouseofPlane had to say. Props to you for trying to R.

sewardak posted 4/9/2019 20:58 PM

"He may bury it but deep down heís thinking You Whore! How dare you."

this was said about "any" man. reading comprehension - I do that for a living, guys.

wish, you go out for a beer with any of the recovering guys here at SI and call their WS a whore to their face? Cuz that's what you're doing here.

[This message edited by sewardak at 8:59 PM, April 9th (Tuesday)]

josiep posted 4/9/2019 21:05 PM

I had a conversation with my DD this A.M. about my recent insight into why this betrayal has been so hard on me to get over. Iím a strong person, an incredibly strong person. But Iím floundering to get over this betrayal and have been spending a lot of time reflecting on why.

And I think itís because saving my M back in 1982 was the shining achievement of my life (other than being the greatest Mom in the world). I went into high gear and did so much hard work and I went to counseling and AlAnon and I read books and I had post-it notes all over the house reminding me that the work was worth it and to stay strong. And I did it and I did it well and not only did our M survive and thrive, he got his career back and we were the golden couple that everyone looked up to.

But then 20 yrs. later, he lost his job at age 54 Ĺ and a few yrs. later, his mother died and then he started taking cholesterol meds which I believe made his thinking very sluggish. And he became depressed and was impossible to live with. Everything made him mad and I was running interference all the time, trying to soften the blows on the people he was angry at. Well, not just people but cars and traffic lights and door knobs and fishing poles.

And then 34 yrs. after the first betrayal, all of my effort and work and great personal sacrifice turned out to be for naught because he solved his current problems the same way he solved them back in 1982, by becoming someone else and leaving all his woes behind.

So all this talk about the BS doing the hard work of R is, in my opinion, misplaced. The BS shouldnít have to do any work. If the BS wants to make their life better or improve some aspect of themselves, great. But the quality and fidelity of their marriage should not depend on it.

It is my opinion that once one party violates the marriage vows, the marriage is null and void. It is my opinion that when that violation is in the form of infidelity, the BS should move toward divorce, or if there are reasons to not D right now, move toward the 180 and detachment with peace. If the WS wants to do the work to become a better person, theyíre free to do so and when they do, theyíre welcome to try to win their partner back.

The other thing thatís kind of interesting in a way is my XWH was a bigwig at his company and became good friends with the psychologist they had on retainer. That psychologist was adamant that people donít change their basic values and personalities and XWH strongly agreed with him. He used to bring it up often. I didnít buy it.

But Iíve definitely changed my mind. When push came to shove, he still had that same lack of a value system, moral character and strength to deal with his problems and reverted to reinventing himself rather than facing anything that was true.

So at the risk of getting my hand slapped, I think itís rare for someone to truly change and those who sort of imply that happy, successful Rís are quite common donít know yet whether the change is permanent. Or whether itís even really real. Maybe it is, and for their sakes, I hope it is. But maybe it isnít.

[This message edited by josiep at 9:21 PM, April 9th (Tuesday)]

Unbroken78 posted 4/9/2019 21:07 PM

wish, you go out for a beer with any of the recovering guys here at SI and call their WS a whore to their face? Cuz that's what you're doing here.

There is a Chris Rock skit where he talks about walking around dressed like a cop and then being shocked when people run up to him for help because they need a cop...

It's a joke about dressing like a whore...and then being shocked when she is treated like a whore.

Acting like a whore...doing whore things...just might get someone treated like a whore.

Just like dressing like a cop...might get people to think you are a cop...

josiep posted 4/9/2019 21:29 PM

"Im just sharing my personal experience. If sheís proven herself capable of committing adultery. Sheíll likely cheat again and justify it in her head."

"You say you are just sharing your experience, but then you say all cheaters will continue to cheat."

"likely cheat again" does not equal "all cheaters will continue to cheat."

Unbroken78 posted 4/9/2019 21:35 PM

I think the gist of what he is saying is that drug addicts will always have the craving...they will have the taste.

Even if they aren't actively indulging...they have the taste of it in the back of their mind.

Frankly, I find nothing untrue about that belief. I've seen it too many times for it to be false.

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