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Completely and utterly devastated, and afraid.

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totallydumb posted 1/9/2019 07:59 AM

Hi Collapsed,
I agree with most here, informing the OBS is important, however that doesn't have to happen until you are ready.
Another day, or another couple of weeks really doesn't matter.
Do what makes sense to you.


You do what is right for you.

BTW, I think you are doing good.

1survivor posted 1/9/2019 08:16 AM

Collapsed , just a few things based on my own experience as a BS.

I waited 3 weeks before I told the obs. I had all of her contact info as she was someone in the public eye . I left a message on her Facebook account 3 days after dday. I never heard back . Finally I called her at work . She apparently isn’t on Facebook, so she never got my message. As it turned out she was in the process of making a huge financial decision. Her knowing about her marriage changed her mind . Part of me obviously wanted to see his life blown up, but honestly didn’t play a big part of my thought process . I was more interested in stopping the affair and showing my wife real consequences than anything. It gave me control over what I wanted going forward.

It helped in deciding whether or not to R as well because I watched my wife’s reaction thru the whole thing. It also killed the affair and put 2 sets of eyes on the situation. It also helped me learn the truth, so I knew what I was dealing with.

If your wife cares more about you blowing up his life than trying to become a safe person for you , she is not a good candidate for R and you can go from there.

Thanksgiving2016 posted 1/9/2019 08:19 AM

I can add that when I found out about the affair my husband dumped other woman like a hot potato. It was an exit affair for her. He let her believe they would eventually marry and she tried desperately to get me to throw him out by texting me disgusting details . Funny after he decided I wasn’t so bad and wasn’t leaving me she decided she had no choice but to stay with her BS because she didn’t want to support herself and get a job which was her only other option.

[This message edited by Thanksgiving2016 at 8:20 AM, January 9th (Wednesday)]

steadychevy posted 1/9/2019 08:25 AM

I just started reading this thread this morning, collapsed. I don't know why I didn't pick up on it earlier.

I would say that the reason to inform the OBS isn't for revenge. That might be a small side benefit. The reason to tell the OBS is out of compassion for her.

If it's true that the POS OM is trying to rebuild something with his BW and she is unaware he continues to commit adultery it would be kind to inform her otherwise. He's doing this while travelling away from the area they live in so it is all so discreet. They don't live together so it's much easier for him to cheat undetected. She may not know/probably doesn't know about his actions. Just because they say it is so doesn't mean it is. Sounds like your WW and he are in pretty constant communication which means they are still cheating.

If the POS OM and the OBS live in a no fault state the fact that he still is cheating with a married woman shouldn't affect access to children. I may be wrong on that. I'm not a lawyer. There seems to be something else going on to me.

It is compassionate to tell the OBS so she has knowledge with which to make decisions about her life going forward.

Your WW seems to be overly concerned about not affecting POS OM's life. Very concerned the relationship with his children is maintained and even being able to have something going on with his BW. If she was so concerned about his life why cheat with him? Was she concerned about the lives of her own children and family? Apparently not.

It is always my advise to tell the OBS. Always so they are aware of the facts of their own life so they can make informed decisions. What they do with the information is up to them. How I wish someone had informed me.

This was a very good arrangement for POS OM (and maybe for your WW, too). He had a side piece every time he travelled to your area or to they were at some function together. And she would sent him erotic stuff when they were apart. Good deal.

So you know that I have some biases my WW had an LTA with a COW POS she supervised. My WW was an easy screw for him. They had sex every time the travelled together which was fairly often. They had nooners and quickies after work at his place where he lived alone with was 5 minutes from their office. For a good part of the LTA she and he were on a different work schedule than I so she was never home late from work those times. She was an easy screw for him, as I said. He called she went, they screwed, she left. As quick as that. I say this so you know my opinions are influenced by my own situation. She performed in everyway he wanted her to. No movies or pictures, though, that I know of. Flip phones.

After you inform the OBS which I urge you to do very soon don't spend a lot of energy on the POS anymore. You will have done an act of compassion and caring. If she had known and you didn't would you have wanted to know?

Having the list of harmful things your WW did is a very good idea. I have such a list uncompleted. It got so long I lost interest but I still have the uncompleted one.

Keep your focus. I respect your decisiveness. I wish I had had your resolve when I first found out. I'm one to suggest that life altering decisions shouldn't be made when emotional and to wait some time before making them. For some though, it's a dealbreaker right off. And that's okay.

Stay strong. Continue moving forward. Even if you file for D you don't have to finalize it. If she can prove to you that R is the only rational decision for you there might be a chance. If your only rational decision is to D that's okay, too. It's your life and you have to live it.

collapsed posted 1/9/2019 09:23 AM

Thanks Steady. I'm very sorry to hear about your situation, it sounds brutal.

It's funny that you say you respect my decisiveness because I feel so very indecisive. I have no idea what I'm doing or going to do.

I feel like I keep poking here and there to see if any glimpse of remorse shows, and it doesn't. It just doesn't.

I can tell she is partially trying to be honest with me. She came to me, unasked, and told me that she had contact with OM yesterday to tell him that they weren't going to talk anymore. Of course, these were sent via work IM so I couldn't see them. So who knows, it could be a lie.

She also let me have her phone. She changes the password on it, but she unlocked it and handed it to me when I surprised her and asked. Maybe all that means is that she deleted everything off of it already, I don't know. She also hasn't asked for her watch back, where I can see all of her text messages, facebook messages, and emails. Problem is, she can still find ways to be secretive.

So I wrote up a letter that followed stevens guidelines. I haven't delivered it to her yet as I'm still finalizing what I want it to say. However, we did have a brief conversation yesterday, and I felt like I said some of what was in the letter.

Later I saw some texts to her mom. The gist was that she thinks that I am just angry at her, that I just want her to feel the way that I feel, that I want her to beg for me to come back, that I think she should have to fight and I shouldn't, and that she thinks I don't understand how badly she is impacted by depression right now.

So....hhhhh. All wayward mindsets I'm afraid.

She goes to therapy tonight for the first time. Oddly, I think she is seeing the same therapist that I am. That was not planned. Yesterday she got on depression meds. Tonight or tomorrow I plan to give her my letter. This weekend she's going to go spend time with her mom, who I think "gets it" to some degree but is clearly going to back her daughter. That's the short term plan.

I'm just so sad that somebody could be this selfish and self-centered. Really, sad to my core. Somebody I thought I loved, and who i thought loved me. I just don't know how I got here.

I am like you though, I take a measured approach. This all feels like a deal-breaker for me. I know nothing can be undone. BUT if she can possibly find a way to try with every ounce of her being to make things right, then I don't know, maybe I'd be willing to try too. This all seems like wasted thought. It's just more of me hoping to see the person that I always used to think I sawa

[This message edited by collapsed at 9:25 AM, January 9th (Wednesday)]

Butforthegrace posted 1/9/2019 09:33 AM

She also let me have her phone. She changes the password on it, but she unlocked it and handed it to me when I surprised her and asked.

In situations like this, where you do not have true random access to all devices, but instead she has to unlock it and give it to you, you have to assume that you are seeing only what she has already decided she wants you to see. Everything else is either deleted, or on apps that are hidden, or on a separate phone that you don't know about.

collapsed posted 1/9/2019 09:37 AM

Yeah agreed. However I haven't specifically requested that from her since I see that more of a step towards R.

I have made a few posts here and there about how she's protecting herself. I think she's expecting me to file for D. She already knows I have all of the evidence of the texts, and I had known the passwords to some of her other accounts. I can only assume at this point she's reeling and she is expecting me to be trying to build a case against her to file for as much custody as possible.

Just trying to get in her head. I assume that's part of it.

I'm relatively certain she doesn't understand we live in a no-fault state or what that means. OM does live in an at-fault state which is why he's particularly screwed with evidence of his affair.

[This message edited by collapsed at 9:40 AM, January 9th (Wednesday)]

Butforthegrace posted 1/9/2019 10:03 AM

Yeah agreed. However I haven't specifically requested that from her since I see that more of a step towards R.

I have made a few posts here and there about how she's protecting herself. I think she's expecting me to file for D. She already knows I have all of the evidence of the texts, and I had known the passwords to some of her other accounts. I can only assume at this point she's reeling and she is expecting me to be trying to build a case against her to file for as much custody as possible.

I wouldn't read her action as a step towards R. It was nothing more than an expedient act to get you off her back in the moment. Be careful of hopium. It's the drug most abused by betrayed spouses. Your WW is taking zero steps toward R at this point, my friend. She is still defending the AP and the A from you. She is still in the A, at least in her head.

She told you flat out that she doesn't trust you. Most in her shoes would not trust you. "Her shoes" meaning that she is an unrepentant cheater who knows that you are very hurt and, since she has no intent to try to R with you, her main concern is whether and how you will lash out at her.

She's thinking logically, and in a linear fashion. You're not. This is why she is at least several steps ahead of you. This is why she knew instantly where to look for your camera. This is why she had her phone sanitized and ready to hand over to you. Etc. All of her actions point toward the conclusion that she is getting her ducks in a row for a divorce, not just because that is what she expects, but it's what she wants.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 10:08 AM, January 9th (Wednesday)]

NotInMyLife posted 1/9/2019 10:20 AM

The gist was that she thinks that I am just angry at her, that I just want her to feel the way that I feel, that I want her to beg for me to come back, that I think she should have to fight and I shouldn't, and that she thinks I don't understand how badly she is impacted by depression right now
All of that is projection and self-centered. She hasn't been listening to you and has created a narrative that conforms to how she sees the situation. She wants to talk about her depression now, when she ignored your mental vulnerability for thelast year.
Oddly, I think she is seeing the same therapist that I am.
Be careful there. It's not unusual for couples with marital problems to see the same therapist individually but that's not really good when it comes to infidelity. Your therapist has already indicated that he sees notifying the OBS as revenge; he's going to support her all the way on that issue. Where else is he going to be biased toward her thinking?

I would be very uncomfortable with this. You already have an established relationship and would be understandably reluctant to switch but...? You might want to discuss this with your therapist at your next (today's) session.

Stevesn posted 1/9/2019 10:21 AM

Collapsed

I’m glad you are thinking that you are going to tell her what you need.

In what I sent you I see as the two most important concepts the following:

1) if she’s defending him (caring, loving, pining, wishing for him) then she is still in the A and any attempts at reconciliation will most likely fail. She can’t be what you need her to be if she’s still playing that role for him.

2) she needs to do the work to figure out how to repair the damage and help you heal. She needs to be the driver. If she’s not willing to do that then you handfeeding it to her is not going to work.

Collapsed, many people suffer from depression and do not cheat on the spouses they love.

Until she sees you as the love of her life, whom she can’t live without, and desires to make happy and accept love from, life with her will be unsatisfying to you. Sure you can co-exist, but if she feels she’s not with the man she’s supposed to be with, then I don’t expect you to feel happiness in the relationship.

Very few Waywards can truly see the bad choices they made, admit to them, and painstakingly do the work to make up for them because they are heartbroken by the hurt they’ve laid on the husband they truly love. Even those that want to do the work often don’t succeed.

So if she’s not starting at a place that she really desires to reconcile then it’s best to move on. It’d be almost better, yet hurtful, to have her end up with the POSOM than to be with you and live a life with you pining away for him and what might have been.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 10:25 AM, January 9th (Wednesday)]

Stevesn posted 1/9/2019 10:32 AM

Collapsed

If you can find the Private Message section here at SI, I also sent you some additional information in a PM.

Good luck.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 11:24 AM, January 9th (Wednesday)]

Jduff posted 1/9/2019 12:33 PM

Hey collapsed I just saw your thread this morning. I went through a very similar path in infidelity as you. My M was 15yrs long at the time of my Dday. I have two boys with my XW, hence I did not choose R, but I did the pick me dance all the while my then WW denied there was an affair until I got proof from the OM's wife. Thus, I speak from an OBS point of view on the situation. Here's my opinion on yours -

Exposure to OBS - If you are certain this is a deal breaker then WHEN, not if, to expose is only important as to whether that exposure will benefit you in your D or not. I think RocketRacoon explained this very well in his post. Keep in mind that in your own situation (and I think a lot of posters are not realizing this) is that the OBS had already filed for D. The terms are already written in her petition. They already in process, just for whatever reason it is taking longer to finalize but not taken out of court as you have found proof online. Whether you tell now or later, I think the OBS is already protected. It is a matter of her telling her attorney to resume or go full throttle on her D. What is MORE important is whether the threat of exposure to her and your WW's workplace is the leverage YOU and YOUR kids need to come out of YOUR own D on far better terms. If infidelity was not a deal breaker and R is possibly on the table then exposing the A to the OBS in a timely manner is essential. I don't see this being the case with you or the OBS.

Divorce is not a death sentence. There are members here who have divorced and remarried. Divorcing your WW is not going to banish her to some purgatory dimension where your will never see her again. You will remain in contact with her because you will have to co-parent with her. As your kids become adults you will see her at their high school graduation, college graduation, their weddings, etc. There is so much emphasis on the finality of D that I think it brings too much pressure and anxiety on the decision itself. Divorce is merely a legal termination of a marital contract. That's it. Doing so protects you from further liability from poor decisions on your WW's behalf should she continue to navigate life with her head up her ass. Divorce is to PROTECT you, and your kids as well, from a proven UNSAFE person and their UNSAFE decisions. If your WW wants to prove that she can be a safe person to you again then great! She can do it on her own dime and her own time. You will find that healing comes quicker when you are not always near the person who caused it and especially has no interest in helping you heal from it.

There is no law preventing you from reconciling with your ex spouse after D. As you have said, you wouldn't even entertain the idea of R with your WW in her current state. She would literally have to move mountains to make you feel she can be a safe person again, an R candidate, and even that may not guarantee you would give her that gift of R. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like she would literally need rebuild herself to be a completely newer and better version of herself, for you to consider that. It sounds like she would have to hit rock bottom before she can even start looking in the mirror and embark on the path to fixing her broken self. Collapsed, you are not required to be there for her on that journey should she decide to do this. Since she broke the marital vows with and violated the marital contract, you are no longer obligated to act as her husband even remain as her husband. BTW, I hate the phrase "she fired you from being her husband" as if to imply you did something wrong as a fire-able offense. I know folks mean well but that phrase really comes off wrong.

Has your attorney told you the typical length of the D process where you live? Use that time as your "wait and see" period with your WW to observe her actions. Use that as your hour glass timer to determine if R is even on the table but at least by filing you can put protections in place now through temporary orders for your assets and your kids. You will know through your WW's actions during this time as to whether or not she could ever be an R candidate. But in the mean time you won't waste the time not having the D process already underway. I think this is the position the OBS is currently in, the wait and watch approach. The difference being her D will finalize a lot sooner than yours and she won't have to deal with her limbo any longer.

Butforthegrace posted 1/9/2019 13:16 PM

but I did the pick me dance all the while my then WW denied there was an affair until I got proof from the OM's wife.

JDuff, were you thankful that she gave you the proof?

Freeme posted 1/9/2019 13:25 PM

OM does live in an at-fault state which is why he's particularly screwed with evidence of his affair.
Ok, this makes perfect sense to me now. I don't think he has been working on fixing his marriage. He still plans to get a divorced but doesn't want the OBS to have evidence that he has been cheating as it can affect SS. I'm sure he has told your WW to go NC for a month or two while the divorces is in process so it will go smoothly. You are doing the OM a huge favor by not giving the OBS your evidence. WW should be thankful too by not giving the OBS your evidence the divorce will go more quickly and he will have extra money to spend on her afterward.

PlanNine posted 1/9/2019 13:26 PM

Divorcing your WW is not going to banish her to some purgatory dimension where your will never see her again.
I can vouch for that. I was looking forward to a pit suddenly opening up and my WW scratching the floor in a futile attempt to keep the demons from dragging her in, then hearing the last lingering echoes from her "Noooooooooo!" as the portal snapped shut behind her.

Didn't happen though. I must have drawn the pentagram wrong or something.

Mrhealed posted 1/9/2019 13:37 PM

Collapsed,

R or D is totally Up yo you! This forum colects alot of POV so you can develop yours.

If you decide tomar R, IMO, you should consider the following.

Detach. The oposite of LOVE IS not hate is indiference. You need to prove to you and her that you can be OK by your own. Otherwise you may be temted to accep toxic behaviors and demands that, un the long run, build a toxic marriage

R is a gift that the BS gives to the WS everyday. You can walk tomorrow or in 5 years.

R IS not a promisse or a contrac. Her betrayal may be a dealbreaker but you hacen realidad It yet.Dont promisse her that all Will be ok until yiu are sure of It.

Expose to OMW, nothing kills and affair fastr than exposing. Remember that even if OM IS free and goes after your wife again, is 100% up to her to start the affair again. Also if she wants to cheat Will be with anyone else.

No cobtact is a must! If the work toguetehr she needs to find a new job. Exposing to OMW nay di the trick as well.

If course there is much more, and others SI members Will providencia.

Good luck

Marauder posted 1/9/2019 15:38 PM

She's thinking logically, and in a linear fashion. You're not. This is why she is at least several steps ahead of you. This is why she knew instantly where to look for your camera. This is why she had her phone sanitized and ready to hand over to you. Etc. All of her actions point toward the conclusion that she is getting her ducks in a row for a divorce, not just because that is what she expects, but it's what she wants.

Honestly, I couldn't agree more. OP thinks a lot of people are "shaming him" and "angry" at him for not telling the OBS. When really, it's partly more being worried about him. He got blindsided and is being taken for a ride by someone who seems extremely calculating and who appears to be pulling the wool over his eyes.

He's still talking about how "the OM would be free to pursue his wife", as if not pushing, not acting, effectively playing dead would somehow keep that from happening if the OM has enough of an interest in doing so. As if his wife needs to be pursued and might not just try and keep him to hold still while they screw over the OBS before they turn their guns onto him.

A lot of this still feels as if he thinks he has control over this situation beyond what he has. That if he plays nice things will resolve themselves. If he keeps from making too much of a splash and not agitating his wife it'll all work out. People talk a lot about how WS are in the fog, here it seems OP is in one. He's deceiving himself, has been for quite some time with how he phrases inactivity and passivity as "strategic" and "holding onto his cards to play them at the right time".

R or D is totally Up yo you! This forum colects alot of POV so you can develop yours.

That assumes his wife is fundamentally interested in R. As quite a few me included believe, that isn't the case here. His wife is still covering for the OM, she's still supporting the OM and trying to shield him from the fallout of this while the OM is likely going through his own divorce. After which he'd be free AND in a vastly better position than if OP blew everything up right now.

His wife is doing the bare minimum to pretend she's still interested in R. While at the same time slowly working OP over. Telling him how she doesn't trust him, making demands of him which mostly benefit the OM and now attending the same therapist who thinks OP is inherently in the wrong for even wanting to inform the OBS.

So no, D or R is not totally up to him. His wife has a say in this also.

breadfruit1 posted 1/9/2019 15:53 PM

"If I call OMW and tell her and she fully goes through with a D and take his kids away, dude will be 100% free to try and pursue a relationship with my wife".

What difference does it make at this point? You are not making your case from a point of strength, and you need to show some strength.

Ok your point of view is that you don't tell the OMW for fear she'll divorce her husband giving him full freedom to continue the affair with your wife. However bear in mind that your WW could decide choosing to pursue OM as well. You seem more worried about OM rather than your WW. The affair happened because your WW made that choice.

NotInMyLife posted 1/9/2019 15:53 PM

She's thinking logically, and in a linear fashion. You're not. ... All of her actions point toward the conclusion that she is getting her ducks in a row for a divorce, not just because that is what she expects, but it's what she wants.

Exactly, she's throwing sand in his eyes to keep him dithering while she proceeds. She says things to keep him in a state of inaction, contemplating his navel.

@Collapsed: settle on a lawyer and get things moving.

Mrhealed posted 1/9/2019 16:00 PM

Even if his wife is pretending, try to R or go directly yo D is Collapsed to decide to take the Risk.

IMO the Collapsed wife is exagerating depression in orther to protec OM (agree affair is stil going on) and pretect her job.

If I am not mistaken there was a chance of heart whe she realized that Collapsed has the power to destroy OM marriage (in this case OM Will triw Collapsed WW under the bus) and ger her and OM fired. Also she may be stil in LOVE with OM.

I am sorry, but this doesnt seems to be a coincidente.

IMO she is pretending, even if the affair is not longer phidical. Until no contact is implemented they are stil Carry on an emotional affair ( the conplicity, the sevresy of what happened, the memories )

I Belice she is just making time to figure out how to D Collapsed.

Again, this is just my opinión.

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