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Completely and utterly devastated, and afraid.

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Ponus18 posted 1/6/2019 15:54 PM

Collapsed you're doing a great job under the toughest of circumstances.

I just wanted to chime in on one point - about your kids and how you divide up time with them. It's great that you want to have as much time with them as possible. I was the same as you and so worked out a 50/50 split. I understand your desire to have a better than even split but it sounds like your WW is not amenable to that. At the end of the day, I don't think it's going to matter that she was a liar/cheater and caused the divorce. What's going to matter is the best interest of the children, which is likely to lead to an even share.

Although I'm a lawyer, I'm not a matrimonial attorney so certainly you'll need to seek advice on this, but assuming that's correct I would just keep that in mind as you start figuring out how your new life is going to look.

I'm sure you know this, but I'll just say that despite how awful your WW has been, your children to deserve to have 2 loving parents, to be made to feel safe, to not hear badmouthing of the other spouse, etc. All this especially given how young they are. It's going to take all the fatherly-ness you can muster to separate your understandably bad feelings for your WW from their needs here. I found it to be literally a daily challenge to close my pie hole and say nice things about my children's mother.

Good luck brother.

totallydumb posted 1/6/2019 16:00 PM

Expose to OBS now, do not tell your WW.

If your WW comes complaining to you about the exposure, who do you think told her?

There is your proof of continued contact......

collapsed posted 1/6/2019 16:04 PM

Although I'm a lawyer, I'm not a matrimonial attorney so certainly you'll need to seek advice on this, but assuming that's correct I would just keep that in mind as you start figuring out how your new life is going to look.

Thanks ponus. I spoke with a few laywers. One said that if I can prove that she was leaving the children to engage in extramarital activities, I have a case to push for better than 50/50 custody. I got text messages that show that very thing, in pretty sad detail.

Granted, it was just a consultation, but the attorney said we could use that sort of thing to push for Mon/Tue/Wed, and every-other weekend custody instead of 2/2/3.

And thanks for chiming in with something other than OMW talk.

Caesar posted 1/6/2019 16:06 PM

Collapsed,
Sorry to see you here and your story reminds me of my own. I stumbled upon the nexts between my WW and the OM during the holidays and was in the same boat. The one thing that stands out to me is your WW's fear for/defense of the OM by her not wanting you to divulge what you know to the other BS. My WW had ended it before I found out through the her texts and was remorseful--to the point where she did not contest me when it came to telling the OBS. I don't see that with yours, which suggests she is still to emotionally attached to him. The only way to BREAK that is to blow up that bond by telling the OBS. BTW, although I felt bad for the OBS, I felt really good about that hell the POS no doubt went through.

Caesar posted 1/6/2019 16:06 PM

Collapsed,
Sorry to see you here and your story reminds me of my own. I stumbled upon the nexts between my WW and the OM during the holidays and was in the same boat. The one thing that stands out to me is your WW's fear for/defense of the OM by her not wanting you to divulge what you know to the other BS. My WW had ended it before I found out through the her texts and was remorseful--to the point where she did not contest me when it came to telling the OBS. I don't see that with yours, which suggests she is still to emotionally attached to him. The only way to BREAK that is to blow up that bond by telling the OBS. BTW, although I felt bad for the OBS, I felt really good about that hell the POS no doubt went through.

The1stWife posted 1/6/2019 16:33 PM

Collapsed. Im sorry for your current situation. I just wanted to say that you handled the most recent meeting with your wife very well.

I agree with your approach that you want to make the future interactions with your wife as amicable as possible, for the childrens sake as well as Co-parenting in the future.

In my case during my Hs last Affair I finally snapped and had enough of his infidelity because it had been going on with finding out about the fake reconciliation at DDay2.

I told him he had to leave. He refused. I made a phone call and told him he was going to stay with a friend until he found a place. Legally he did not have to leave but why stay where you are not welcome. That is uncomfortable.

I also told him he was now free to be with anyone he chose - other woman or someone else. I no longer cared. Suddenly - the A was over (a few hours earlier) and he was fighting for our marriage.

I told him if he wanted to turn this situation around - good luck trying. Im not helping you - you are on your own. Somehow he did and we did reconcile. Its been 5 years.

The path is not always clear.

But I just want to say that your success (at whatever you choose) is best if it comes from a place of power and strength. As an example, it is great she tried to drag you down during your talk and you refused and steered the discussion right back to the topic you wanted to discuss.

She will start to view you in a whole new light because she is losing control of the situation.

Also if you do decide to reconcile, demand she signs a post nup to financially protect yourself. It should state if we divorce .... and outline terms like she has no claim to your retirement accounts or savings or home. Whatever terms you want - put it in the post nup.

And she is still in the cheater mentality because she blamed YOU for her affair. And her post partum depression as well, but was treatable had she sought help for it. But her solution was an Affair. Typical cheater mentality

ramius posted 1/6/2019 17:27 PM

There are at least 2 guys. Possibly more. This makes her a serial cheater. IMO serial cheaters, the vast majority of the time, do not get better. At best they white knuckle it going forward. They has a taste of sexual heroin and the desire to chase that dragon will always be there.

She said she feels like she has been battling postpartum depression since our daughter was born and it not only made her feel like she didn't love me, but didn't have any feelings at all.

Bullshit. The devil (hormones) made me do it? If she could not feel anything then why have sex with the OM (or men)? Was she totally unfeeling with them?

You have good leverage over them both.

She is worried about HR finding out.
So is he.
He does not want his wife, who is already divorcing him, to know.
Does anyone in either of your family's know?

Pick a lawyer. A shark. Get input on how to best use this leverage.

Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Play the long game. You are doing very well.

HouseOfPlane posted 1/6/2019 19:03 PM

Well done, C

How the person I thought I knew would have never done that.
Ain't it the truth. She was always capable, the person in your head wasn't.

You just got firehosed with a lesson in human nature. Hers and your own. How we live in a world in our heads that is often a poor replica of reality, until something like this happens.

Sounds like you did everything right in your conversation. Keep detaching, keep taking care of yourself, keep gaining control, and keep your eye on the endgame prize (you free, her to pursue her dream dude, your kids having two parents that love them and work as a team for them).

Sending strength!

Buster123 posted 1/6/2019 19:45 PM

You need to pick a lawyer ASAP and have her sign a D settlement that favors you while they're in panic mode about you exposing them to HR, that's what they fear the most, use that to your advantage like I've been telling you, just the threat, since you're telling OBS they know you mean business.

collapsed posted 1/6/2019 20:02 PM

Does anyone in either of your family's know?

Yes. I'm very close with my family. My dad took the kids initially, and I called my sister to tell her the whole story as well. They (WW and my sis) were extremely close, considered themselves best friends. She was as shocked as me.

WW told her parents when I kicked her out and she went to stay with them. My MIL has been texting me, hoping that we can give it a chance. She's extremely critical of WW but I can tell she's trying to sway me to want R. She tried to sway WW as well.

I'm actually pretty close with my MIL/FIL so I texted them once I knew that they knew to say that I'll always consider them family. And honestly I will, they're good people. My understanding is that they recovered from a brief / single instance of infidelity several decades ago. So they've been through this struggle and stayed married for 40 years.

I also told them that I wasn't going to look to sway them or change their opinion of their daughter because she needs their support, but that with everything I had seen, the length of time that this had gone on, how she had treated me, and everything that she had done, this was clearly something that I could not get past. I alluded to but didn't detail the stuff they did. But I wanted to make sure they didn't think that just because this guy lives in a different state that it must have been a one-time, heat-of-the-moment mistake. It was a f'ing relationship.

Unfortunately I'm fairly certain that they filled her head with the message of "you had postpartum depression, this isn't your fault, you just need to go get medication and it'll help you feel better"

Who knows though. I wasn't there. I'm not spending too much time worrying about what they are all saying to each other.

[This message edited by collapsed at 8:04 PM, January 6th (Sunday)]

farsidejunky posted 1/6/2019 20:06 PM

You claim your WW began showing remorse.

Her words say she is sorry.

What do her actions tell you?

Marz posted 1/6/2019 20:10 PM

Her parents aren't stupid. They want what's best for her. Whether it's at your expense or not.

You're doing well.

Sorry you're here.

Words just don't mean much


collapsed posted 1/6/2019 20:12 PM

You claim your WW began showing remorse.
Her words say she is sorry.

What do her actions tell you?

I don't really believe it. I think she's remorseful that her way of life is coming to an end. That she's losing her relationship with this guy. That she is going to lose 50% of her stuff, and 50% of her kid's time.

It could be genuine, I can't tell anymore.

She got hostile a few times against me, accused me of being controlling (because of how I'm handling this) and questioning my ability to be a father. Specifically, she said, "what if one of our kids gets depression when they're older? you think you're the right person to help them deal with that?"

CLEARLY this means she blames me for not helping her with depression, which led to her affair.

So no I don't believe it's genuine. I went to my office, shut the door, and wrote a page of "You can't forget...." lines.

You can't forget...how much pain she caused you this last year.
You can't forget...of when you were texting her while she was away on business and she wouldn't reply because she was having sex with him.
You can't forget...how she made your birthday miserable, and the next morning had phone sex with him.

The list goes on.

It may be fruitless but I have something I'm going to say to her tonight about my assessment on her further attempt at justification of her behavior, and how I am now convinced that she's a serial cheater. And just a few other things. I'm still calm and collected, I just want to call her on her bullshit from today.

Marz posted 1/6/2019 20:21 PM

CLEARLY this means she blames me for not helping her with depression, which led to her affair.

Her affair was a conscious willing decision. Her depression didn't cause it.

Think of all the planning and effort she put into it for a year. It takes a fairly clear mind to work an affair. They just don't happen.

Not to mention this was probably her second foray.

She regrets getting caught and may soon be in self preservation mode. It's still wayward behavior from what you're posting. That's all you're seeing.

Marz posted 1/6/2019 20:25 PM

You want to call her on her bullshit but talk won't get you much. You can't rationalize with the irrational.

In her mind you have to be the bad guy because if not she'd have to admit to herself the affair is all on her. It was a choice she made.

You aren't perfect but neither is she. Did you have an affair because of her imperfections?

See the difference?

[This message edited by Marz at 8:27 PM, January 6th (Sunday)]

NotInMyLife posted 1/6/2019 20:28 PM

She came across as genuinely remorseful today,
It doesn't sound like that from here. She is undoubtedly genuinely regretful: she regrets that her parents and in-laws now have a new, unflattering view of her. She regrets that she got caught and has to make nice to you. She regrets that she can't have her cake and eat it too (although she's still trying to just that).

What though has she said or done that acknowledges your hurt? She's full of excuses and apologies and no compassion for you. Instead, she's still focused making sure that you don't upend her AP's life by telling his wife. Has she started one discussion with, "I know how hard this is for you" or recognize how much you are hurting? I doubt it. Remember that the next time she apologizes. What exactly is she apologizing for? Is she sorry that she blew up her marriage or is she sorry for the hurt she's inflicted on you? Never confuse regret with remorse

It sound like she's going to run with her mom's ex-post diagnosis of post-partum depression and try to make you the bad guy. Just remind them how you started therapy while she wouldn't and said that she just didn't love you anymore. You are the one who sought help, she went running to another man.

Children: Pull out all the pictures you can of you and the kids with no mom present. Whenever you go somewhere with them, snap a photo to show that they are spending more time with you. Same thing with activities at home.

Recording: You don't really care whether they continue the affair now. What you want is to know her strategy going forward. That's what you can pick up as she talks during her commute or in her bedroom.

Booyah posted 1/6/2019 20:48 PM

"Questioning my ability to be a father".

"WHAT IF one of our kids gets depression when they're older"?

I would have shot back with "WHAT IF one of their spouses has an affair when they're older and it destroys their family"?

collapsed posted 1/6/2019 21:50 PM

Yeah that conversation was a waste of effort and time and didn't feel particularly good at the end. I wound up feeling kind of nasty and talking more than I wanted to, although I think I was still right in everything I said. Mark that one down as a lesson learned.

She DID tell me (unprompted) that she intends to write this guy a no contact letter though. So that was interesting. Whether she does it or not...

Still blaming everything on depression though and refusing to be accountable or compassionate. And still saying that her first order of business is to figure out what SHE needs to feel happy, nothing related to the marriage or trying to reconcile. So that's where that is.

I'll admit I was being harsh. She said to me at one point, "I thought I'd come home and you'd understand..." and I almost broke out in laughter. I asked her if she understood the misery she put me through for the last year, and ran through a few examples.

I just simply can't wrap my head around how somebody could think this way.

collapsed posted 1/6/2019 21:57 PM

One thing she just latched onto was me telling OMW and (potentially) HR. She kept accusing me of playing God. Saying I was ruining their lives.

I just...couldn't wrap my head around it. It didn't matter how many times I told her that it is their own actions and decisions that they'd pay consequences for and have to live with. Me exposing the truth doesn't make me responsible. Seriously it was laughable. I sat there and said that he knew the risks of cheating, what was at stake, and he still chose to do it....and it's somehow not his fault? wtf? wtfwtf?

It's amazing to me that somebody's mind can work this way. And that I have never seen her in this light before?

just....wtf?

hatefulnow posted 1/6/2019 22:05 PM

Collapsed,

Sorry you've had to join our club. You've gotten good advice so far. Heed it as best you can. I would add, do not let her know about this site. Not until she shows remorse. She could use the information here against you, playing on your emotions. Let this be your safe space, for now. You'll get tons of support here.

We've got your back.

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