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We could really use your help!!

BetterFuture13 and I were just given a washer and dryer set by our future son-in-law. (No more laundromats, YAY!!) We bought our house 3 years ago and the pipes/drains were already there for a washer, but since we didn't have one until now they have never been used.

Our previous homes all had laundry rooms, and our washers always drained into a laundry tub. In this house the laundry hook-up/plumbing is in the kitchen, so we have a standpipe instead.

Here is an image of the type of set-up we have...

Is there anything we need to know, check, look out for, or do, before we go and hook the washer up and use it for the first time? Also, does being on a cistern for water and holding tank for waste impact anything?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I know nothing about plumbing but hope you get some answers. My first thought was .... too bad Dragnheart isn't here to respond.

As a retired plumbing and electrical inspector with only city sewer hookup experiences, I can't speak to the holding tank question except to say that if your house has no leach field (drain lines buried in the yard coming out of the holding tank) the discharge from the washer could very quickly fill up a sewage holding tank, and what a problem that could be! In the old days, before modern codes, rural houses were allowed to have "grey water lines" to let sudsy sink and laundry water go out to the field separately from the solid waste disposal lines from toilets and baths. Not sure about the legality of having that kind of set up, now. Do you know if such separate drain lines were ever installed when they plumbed the house for a washer?

The other question would be: how big is the holding tank and how often do you want to have to pump it out? Nothing would be worse than having a big laundry load discharging, full throttle into the standpipe, and the holding tank is full, and it all comes back, all over the kitchen floor!

Hardware/lumber stores sell plastic trays to be set under washers for emergency overflow situations that have a cut-out place for an optional floor drain, to pipe away any overflow water. I used that kind of inexpensive tray in a wood floor bedroom with a washer, hooked up to the same exact set-up you show there, and it never gave a bit of problem, or overflowed, because the house had a traditional gravity drainfield out in the back yard.

Other things to verify:

*the supply lines have shut off valves that don't drip when the water is "on" and can be easily turned on and off by hand (some old ones get corroded and rusty, lock up).

*the wall electric plug serving the dryer needs to connect to wiring and a circuit breaker (or fuse if older house) big enough to handle the rated motor load of your electric dryer (I say this in case power lines were run for the laundry without someone knowing what size wire or fuses to use, as we have seen that happen a lot!) You check the amps listed on the nameplate of the dryer (back side of machine or inside a door) and make sure the machine will pull less amps than the rating of the circuit breaker that controls it, which also needs to be a "dedicated" circuit, marked in the main panel box as serving only that dryer. And the circuit breaker in the panel box must not be rated too large, either, (another common mistake made) or it cannot protect the wiring or the appliance. Check what the manufacturer's instructions call for; you can find them online (many such websites offer downloadable owners manuals even for older units).

*same advice as above for the electric receptacle plug serving the washing machine; it should be serving "laundry" only and the outlet/plug, wall wiring and circuit breaker in the panel box must all be correctly sized for the machine's amp draw, either too small or too large.

*your dryer's exhaust duct should be checked for how it gets the damp hot air outside, in as direct a line as possible, without any excessive bends that could collect lint, and confirm that it has been cleaned out and has a flap door on the outside where it goes through the wall, to keep critters from climbing up in there! I prefer hard sheet metal ducts to those flexible ones, because they don't catch lint and allow it to build up so much. Have seen dryer fires destroy old houses for that very reason!

*finally, my personal suggestiion: "babysit" your washer and dryer for the first several times you run clothes through them.If there is going to be any problem, you want to be there to catch it ASAP! So be within earshot, is what I would suggest, until you have confidence in how the machines will do their thing, there.

Just 2 months ago, my 10 year old stackable dryer that had been recently repaired with a new circuit board almost caught fire: the temperature inside the door measured 176 degrees F! I NEVER leave my old wooden house with a machine running, for just that reason, have seen too many disasters; that day, I went upstairs for 5 minutes to the far end of the 2nd floor. Came back down and heard a loud running noise, almost like that noise the spin cycle on the washer makes (but the washer was off). I went into the laundry room, stopped the very noisy dryer, and almost burned my hand on the lint basket!! We stopped using it that day and decided it would be safer to buy a whole new pair (stackables have to be the same brand, they told us). But imagine if I had gone out of the house for a "quick" trip to town.....it made me glad I have always been OCD about that safety "rule."

Well, I hope with all this, you won't think I am trying to worry you; I am just giving you some of the "standard operating procedures" off the top of my head, for these appliances, because if you've never used one in that house, you would want to know all these things, I figure. But I haven't been working in the field for the last 25 years, so take my advice for what it may be worth.

[This message edited by Superesse at 10:35 PM, October 13th (Saturday)]

Thank you for such a thorough response Superesse.

There is no leach field/grey water line and they are not legal in the area we live in.

The holding tank is 3000 gallons (and the cistern is 2000 gallons). With just the two of us we normally average about 10-12 weeks between pump outs. Having gone from city living to rural we learned to conserve water pretty quickly, and BetterFuture13 checks the holding tank regularly to make sure we don't get into any overflow situations.

Do you know what the average water usage is for a regular size washer per load or can this info be found on the manufacturer's website?

We'll definitely check all the things you mentioned. We had heard about the dangers of the flexible ducts for the dryer when we bought our last house, so only metal ones for us! Two of my siblings have had dryer fires in the past so I am not taking any chances!!

I will definitely be babysitting the washer and dryer for a while. We're in a open concept, 700 sq ft house so, unless I'm outside for a smoke, I don't think I will miss anything funky going on with them

Now, because these drains haven't been used in at least three years, and potentially far longer, is there anything we need to do with them before we start? Should they be checked for any clogs? Should we try running some water through them? Also, we don't need to do anything with the air admittance valve, do we? Just trying to make sure we have got everything covered before we try running our first load!

Thanks again!

BTW, did I mention I am super excited to not have to go to the laundromat anymore!! Oh, the stories I could tell!!

Onlytime,

Me again! I forgot the drain check, good point. Usually the issue with them if not used in a long time is the liquid in the trap evaporates, letting sewer gasses up into the house, smelling like a dead mouse or worse....some people put RV antifreeze in unused traps to protect them from freezing and it may help them not dry out so often.

If you haven't noticed any odor, and you said the pipe looks looks like that diagram, (should not be smaller than 2 inches diameter pipe size, ideally), shine a BIG flashlight down the standpipe (so the light doesn't slip out of your hands and ooops, plug the pipe!) See what you can see. Shouldn't look like gunk built up or waxy. Should look like liquid.

Then, I guess for more reassurance, you could run a plumbing snake down (borrow one, don't buy this) or you could even test-fill the standpipe with a garden hose hooked up to the washing machine shut off valves. That way, you could test both the valve operation of each valve and their water flows, and see if the drain takes it away, at one time.

Be aware that any potential obstructions down the pipe somewhere may not show up with a minor amount of water running through, especially if it's not sudsy. That sudsy water can back up quickly, so if somebody's child put a toy down the pipe and it got wedged halfway to the tank, you might only discover this when there is a major flow of water dumped in it, such as that machine is gonna give! Wow, the top loaders used to use gallons and gallons, but the newer ones probably don't use anywhere like the old ones did. I just hate it when you watch a machine start to discharge the entire drumload of water and you hear that sickening sound of water overflowing; you can't move fast enough to kill the pump before that water is everywhere! I like the trays for that reason.

Now the newer machines are so high tech, they might not produce that much water, there are many high efficiency types. Personally, I equate more water with cleaner clothes. My man is a car mechanic, and believe me, we do laundry, as he has no uniform service any more.

That holding tank would be getting a very frequent pump out, here, I am afraid. How do you check the tank level easily? Visually, I hope. In a case like that, you really are pushing it because of something called "drainage fixture units," whereby one wash cycle is equal to so many toilet flushes, which in turn is equal to so many more hand washings. It is easy to forget how fast the water is getting sent down the tank, so I wouldn't want to rely totally on some sewer high water alarm, because even it can have electrical issues and fail to signal you in time. Whereas a sluggish tub drain might be an early warning, your washer won't give you that, it's like FLUSH!!!

Hey this is fun for my insomnia.....just got a spark of an idea: put in a separate, smaller holding tank for the washer? Some places, people have used their laundry effluent to water their plants....

Oh, edited to add: the air admittance valve is usually trouble free, although if it is located at a height below the height of the discharge standpipe, in theory, suds back-up could have coated the valve and made it less responsive. So the way to test that is, listen as you put a test flow of drain water down that standpipe. You should be able to hear it clicking once, each time you put water through (the click noise is the valve opening to admit air and closing to keep out gasses). They usually unscrew too, and can be looked at. 😀

I know what you mean about the joys of no more laundromats. Especially in winter, eh? 🇺🇸🇨🇦

[This message edited by Superesse at 1:16 AM, October 14th (Sunday)]

No advise on the plumbing part, but I had a septic tank and leach fields for 20 years. Even with a high efficiency front loader, it’s 40-50 gallons per load. Most modern machines sense the amount of water for each load based on weight, I think. We hooked up a gray water system where I manually moved the water outlet to a giant tank (old soda concentrate barrel I got from a salvage yard) and then used that water for non-edible plants in the yard. (No herbs or anything like that). It was semi-legal in CA, but did require a bit of work. Also it is advised if you go with a gray water system, use some discretion. A load of underwear, for example, should not be gray water— put that down the drain. You know, cooties and all that :-)

Good luck!

@Superesse

The pipe was covered with plastic wrap when we moved in and we never touched it, so no idea what smell, if any, may be there once we remove it. Being the weak-stomached person I am, that job will definitely have to be done by BetterFuture13!

I like the idea of bringing the garden hose in and checking both the drain and the taps at the same time. Seems like the most efficient plan.

The holding tank doesn't have an alarm on it. It has an above ground float stick which BetterFuture13 checks frequently starting at about 6-8 weeks post pump out. Although the stick can rise to over a foot without overflowing we usually get a pump out when it has risen to between 1-3 inches, just to be on the safe side. He also makes sure to keep it clear in the winter and checks to make sure the stick is still moving freely. He plans on starting his checks at the 4-6 week mark for the first few months to get a better idea of how using the washer will impact us.

Thanks for the tip on listening for the clicks with the air admittance valve, we'll definitely make sure to check that as well, and thanks again for all of your advice!

I am heat-intolerant, so the laundromat in the summer is like a special kind of hell for me!! I won't miss that at all!!

@BearlyBreathing

We would love to have a grey water system, but unfortunately it is not permitted in our area.

Ok. So we just checked the standpipe.

Flashlight inspection showed a clear but dry pipe - no smell.

Ran hose in, once water started going in we had that nasty stench come out of the pipe and pipe filled up (we caught it before overflow occurred). It drained, but very, very slowly, with some water remaining in trap. No clicking noise from the air admittance valve.

We are going to try snaking, but is there something we should be doing with the air admittance valve as well?

Not yet, since you wouldn't expect to hear the air admittance valve opening (I call it a 'click') unless your drain line downstream of that vent stack (where it is mounted) was free flowing water, which it isn't. (Sorry! You were so smart to think about this ahead of hooking up!) The reason you wouldn't have heard anything from that valve, is it only operates after the wastewater flow creates a vacuum while it momentarily fills the horizontal drain pipe 100% full for a certain length of run, until the flow levels out in the pipe and runs off to its destination.

Keep us posted on what you find! 🤞

Thank you for all of your help Superesse. Just thought I'd let you know how things turned out.

So it's been an interesting couple months since I last posted.

A neighbour suggested using a compression cap for the standpipe, so we went to the hardware store and picked one up. The person in the plumbing department recommended one that had 4 small air vents around the top edge. I had a bad feeling about it, but since we had no experience with this stuff we bought it and gave it a go.

BetterFuture13 climbed in between the washer and the standpipe, towels in hand, and I had a flashlight shining on the standpipe. We patiently waited for our first load of washing to get to the rinse cycle so we could see what was going to happen...

Well, as I expected, the water started spraying out of those four holes. I quickly turned off the washer and BetterFuture13 took the drainhose out of the standpipe. Major crisis averted, or so we thought...

All of a sudden the washer, which was still shut off, starts draining the rest of the water. BetterFuture13 is standing there, hose in hand, trapped between the standpipe and washer, with water gushing out all over the place. Well, I panicked!! And, apparently when I panic my brain ceases to function with any sort of logic. All I could think was "Holy shit, there's water going everywhere, you need to find something to catch all that water!!". Well, in my infinite wisdom I grab a jar off the counter and try to pass it to BetterFuture13. He was like "OMG. No!! We need something bigger than that!!" So I grab the plastic stool the grandkids use for climbing on the toilet and try to pass it to him! He's like "OMG! No, that's not going to work either, grab the pail by the bathroom door!!". I go to grab it, and it's full of water from washing the floor, so I tell him "It's full!!", and he says "Well dump it!!" So I toss the water down the sink and run the pail to him. Well, of course, by this time most of the water had already drained on the floor and all over BetterFuture13. It was a mess!!!

I honestly wish someone had been there to record the whole fiasco, because in hindsight it was absolutely hysterical!!

So at this point we have a washer full of clothes that are still soaked, so we run out to the hardware store before it closes to exchange the compression cap and wouldn't you know, they don't have any of them in stock. So we decide to just finish our laundry using one of our big garbage cans to drain the water into, with BetterFuture13 dragging it outside to dump it in the side yard (after each wash cycle and spin cycle)!

We figured there must be a clog somewhere in the line so we grab some heavy duty drain cleaner and use it in the kitchen sink, as BetterFuture13 had discovered that the kitchen plumbing was connected to the same line as the standpipe, but separate from the bathroom plumbing, when he crawled under the house. It seemed to help the kitchen sinks to drain better, but I was still leery. So for about a month or so we did our laundry using the garbage can to drain the water.

Meanwhile we tried to figure out where all the plumbing drained to. As far as we can tell now, it appears that the tub and toilet drain into the holding tank, while the kitchen and washer drain into what we assume is a pre-existing grey water line, since we have not seen or heard any of the kitchen plumbing drain into the holding tank.

This past week we finally picked up the proper compression cap and attached it to the standpipe. Today was our first opportunity to see if it would work. Once again BetterFuture13 assumed his position in between the washer and the standpipe, with towels in hand, and the big garbage can beside me in case we were going to have a repeat performance. We anxiously waited for the washing to get to the rinse cycle...

And it worked like a charm!! Not one leak or hint of water!!!

We did it!! Woohoo!!

OMG! It was like reading about a train wreck in slow motion...you described my worse nightmare....sorry about that. At least he is still laughing, right? I was afraid the drain cleaner was going to foam back up and burp out all over the floor, too...gotta be careful with that stuff.

I am not surprised there was a grey water line. I wouldn't think it would cause a lot of problems unless you use strong chemicals doing dishes and such.

What about that holding tank capacity, now that you are using the washing machine? Is it filling up a lot faster?