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Double Betrayal

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Summerluv123 posted 11/20/2014 16:03 PM

I read here all the time, but I don't much post anymore. R is going well. But I do have issues with the 2 of the 3 OW my WH has had. OW #2 is a neighbor, yeah she still is. This was his biggest A. Went on for quite a while and was underground as I had found the EA. The OW #3 was one of my best friends. That truly hurts the most.

I have now learned how much of a flirt my WH is when he is not around me. I never knew. He was very good at hiding it. I did have a few weird feelings with OW #3, but always thought he would not go there...well he did and she did too. I think that hurts just as much. She comes off as the sweetest person, but I know the dark side and what she can really do.

It is just so hard to wrap my head around this. I have forgiven WH, why can I not forgive her? Maybe its the fact the she pursued him, but I also know he flirted with her. Everyone around me has had some part in the A's. I have no family and no one to trust except my kids. Its a horrific place to be.

Thanks for letting me vent...

wolf_heart posted 11/22/2014 02:51 AM

It is hard when you feel you can't trust anyone. I feel that way sometimes. The people that know seem to be on WH side which is insane. There are no sides. I got chewed out by one of my best friends from high school only to find out she knew about his A the whole time. Not to mention she and WH had discussed having an A of their own. Someone I was friends with for over 30 years. It is insane sometimes to think of the large betrayals as well as the miniature ones.
I feel like I can't trust anyone. I am trying to make new friends, but find it hard to actually talk about anything meaningful.
It is much worse when it is a double betrayal. If it was a stranger at least I wouldn't feel like my friendship was used against me.
I use to trust so easily too. That is now gone, just like my security and trust.

Summerluv123 posted 11/22/2014 07:48 AM

Wolf, you are right. It feels like our friendship was used against us. I see now how OW #3 said things like admiring comments about my WH years ago that I never picked up on. I knew her BH was not the greatest and felt she was jealous of what I had. I never dreamed she would try to make it hers. All the while, lying to my face. Its just sickening.

One thing that has me confused on how to feel or react...as I look at my WH now, we are in R, I know he is a broken person and is doing so much work to figure himself out and repair what he has broken. Why cant I feel that way about the OW. I truly hate them all. The first OW I do not know. I guess it just makes it harder that we all live in small down - one is even in my neighborhood.

I wish we could move away, but financially we can't right now. I envy those that never knew the OP's. I wish I was in that place. My IC is helping me get through this, but its just mind boggling.

livinganew posted 11/22/2014 11:24 AM

I belong to many "clubs" here: LTA, divorced (New Beginnings), double betrayal, others... I often lurk and rarely post. I have a question for others in this double betrayal "club"...

My XWW left me for her married AP following DDay (she works for him), who (in turn) is divorcing his wife. The (at least) 5-year double betrayal by my X and someone who arguably was my best friend makes the pain more anguishing, I believe. I felt "ganged-up on" by the two most important in my life. That it went on for so long--with me supporting her at every turn (and him, too, in many ways)--made this experience profoundly shattering and nauseating.

I've been unemployed a couple times in my career(s), and that was bad; my mother passed about three years ago, and that was worse. This profoundly disturbing, shattering, pain was 50 times worse than my mother's death. It was/is easily my most excruciating pain; nothing else comes/came close.

Once my XWW decided to leave, I eventually concluded I HAD to get out of town. I had to move away; to make a new time and place for myself to recover. Staying anywhere near them--and in the life I had during their affair--was invasive and impeded my healing. I believe I've seen others here articulate a similar need to get the heck out.

So, here's my question: Does the "double betrayal" lend itself more than other betrayals to experiencing a fundamental urge to get away from the life we thought we had, to create an entirely new life? (Whether we CAN do this or not, is another thing; my kids are "emancipated" in legal parlance, so I could move.)

That urge was/is so strong that I initially not only moved to a different suburb of Chicago, but will soon again move to the coast of western Michigan. Despite 30 years here in one Chicago suburb, it was no longer "home." I'm originally from Michigan, and it again felt like home and pulled me there. So, there is where I'm choosing to go and continue building my new life.

Two years out, I'm now feeling more grounded in and accepting of my anguish, anger, and sadness; stepping into and working on forgiveness--both for how I wounded my X in our 30-year marriage and how she wounded me; and, grateful for the many blessings in my life. None of my current blessings would have happened in the way they have if I were still married.

Blessings to All, LivingAnew

wolf_heart posted 11/22/2014 16:59 PM

Summer I don't think there is a specific way to act. We react to our circumstances. I want nothing to do with her or any of the other women that made inappropriate comments about my WH or had private access to him. There are just too many to even think about. I ended one friendship after the gal told me point blank she could have my WH at any time. She just didn't out of respect for me. WH says he would never have gone there, but seriously that is not something you tell someone. She based her opinion on a compliment he gave her and how much he flirts. She said it was obvious he was always testing the waters. He doesn't think what he did was flirting. Makes it hard to heal when they don't even see what they did as wrong.

So, here's my question: Does the "double betrayal" lend itself more than other betrayals to experiencing a fundamental urge to get away from the life we thought we had, to create an entirely new life?
Living, I am lucky that we are not in the same town. Neither one is. However, I feel a deep desire to leave a state that I have lived in most of my life. I am a military brat and we moved around a lot. The state we live in was the first place I lived in for more then 2 years. I have been here since I was 14. So, the thought of leaving breaks my heart, but at the same time I am having issues with the reminders. I feel a need for new places that are just ours and no one else's. He added these women to our marriage and made them a part of our story. I hate that.

girlpower posted 11/24/2014 13:06 PM

good question - I am feeling the same way. H had an affair with my closest friend, whom I also employed as my assistant. Its been a little over a month. Every little thing just turns my stomach. Running into her in town, my children asking about her family etc.

I also saw them first hand having sex - and Just can't figure out how I will ever be able to get that out of my head. Ever. He kind of has that "well, we aren't having sex anymore, so everything should be good" attitude. I feel like I can never "un see" that.

I have the overwhelming desire to move far away and start over somewhere myself. However, we have small children so I don't know if / what options would be. I just want to get as far away from this as possible.

girlpower posted 11/24/2014 13:21 PM

And like other posters have said - I don't want any friends, I don't want to deal with anyone. I can't figure out how to move forward. My office is a mess, letting work get behind, don't want to talk to my husband . . . just feel dead inside.

And he is letting me know that he is ready for "sex" again - enough time has passed. I can't ever think of a way that I will ever be able to be intimate with him and not have that imagine of them in my head. Ever.

BrokenheartedWif posted 11/24/2014 15:23 PM

((Girl Power))

Double betrayal is so hard. Your WS sounds like he doesn't understand the damage that he and AP have done to you. Sex may take a while for you again. You should probably discuss how him wanting sex makes you feel etc. while you tow are with the MC.

Does the MC have experience with infidelity? Some MC's who don't have any experience or very little with infidelity, want to discus what was wrong in the marriage and ignore the Adultery. You usually need to heal from the Adultery before you discuss the marriage. And whatever was wrong, if anything in the marriage, it is no excuse for your WS to commit Adultery. That is all on him.

girlpower posted 11/24/2014 19:39 PM

I just don't understand how I or anyone can ever get past it - just when I think I am getting a grip on one aspect of it - then another aspect of it hits me from behind.

Every time I feel like I take any steps forward, then a tons of steps backwards . . .

I lost my closest friend, my business is a giant mess and I am neglecting it from full depression, I don't trust anyone and I am completely disgusted with H. I actually saw them having sex - he had the nerve today to ask "how long do I have to wait before we can have sex again?"

I don't know that I can ever get that image out of my head - ever.

Ascendant posted 11/30/2014 10:43 AM

So, here's my question: Does the "double betrayal" lend itself more than other betrayals to experiencing a fundamental urge to get away from the life we thought we had, to create an entirely new life?
Maybe. I never really thought about that aspect at length.

I think it's possible, especially in cases where not only are you 2xB by a friend or relative, but also other friends in your social circle know or knew about the affair while it was ongoing. It's much more simple (not easy) to cut bait with the whole shitty mess instead of working through your hurt with god-only-knows how many individuals, many of whom probably cannot fathom your hurt and some of whom probably empathize with your WS.

If you have a group of 5 friends, and one of them was the AP, but the other 4 knew or refuse to take sides (which is bullshit, btw), then it's going to be a ton of work to reconcile each of those relationships, excluding the AP.

There's certainly an appeal to starting all over in a new place where no one knows you and looks at you either with scorn or pity.

wolf_heart posted 12/3/2014 19:56 PM

I actually saw them having sex - he had the nerve today to ask "how long do I have to wait before we can have sex again?"

Girlpower- Seriously. What a jerk. Sorry, but this is NOT a remorseful spouse. He should be more concerned about your feelings than that.

Are you in MC? Are you getting IC too? You deserve to heal and I think IC can really help your situation. Seeing them together is just horrible. Your WH should be much more sensitive to that fact. I am so thankful I didn't walk in on my WH and his AP. The mind images are enough without having actual ones.

So, work on what you need for yourself. I would explain to him that the trauma of witnessing him breaking your wedding vows and showing utter disrespect for you means that he needs to help you more. I would also let him know that until he starts to help you more and you get some healing then NO, there is no sex for him. Also, let him know it is called making love when you are in a loving marriage. If it is just sex to him, I would question his ability to reconcile.

[This message edited by wolf_heart at 7:57 PM, December 3rd (Wednesday)]

girlpower posted 12/4/2014 15:39 PM

thank you wolf heart -
I have been struggling like crazy. We are living in the same home, with me in the guest room "pretending" like everything is ok. It took a long time for me to actually "feel" anything I was so numb and just walking around in a daze.

They were doing this IN MY HOUSE - I can't get past it. Everything is a trigger, he stresses me out, and I would rather do anything than let him touch me. Our kids go to same school, we live in same town etc etc.

I have this incredible desire to just pick up and move - we have two small children, so I don't know what is allowed.

I do have an IC, however I have been out of town for work and just trying to figure out how to start healing. I never imagined anything this shitty

girlpower posted 12/4/2014 15:43 PM

I kind of feel like that I put so much effort into making sure we didn't become the "town scandal" and kids weren't forever traumatized - that I ended up taking the brunt of the pain and humiliation.

This leaves me feeling very guilty, like everyone could go on living just fine - unless I am the one who chooses that I can't go on with this relationship. I don't like feeling like everything is on my shoulders.

Could I stay together for the sake of the kids? Probably. I like H enough, we are good parents / partners. However - I don't feel the love. I don't want to be intimate, I don't want to share things, I am so beside myself with betrayal I don't know how I will ever trust anyone in my life ever again.

Crushed7 posted 12/10/2014 18:56 PM

I've been posting on SI for a while, but this is my first time posting in this forum. I'm struggling with some things about the A that I am wondering if they are unique to a double betrayal or are just the lengths that A's can go to.

The OM/OBS were our neighbors and our families (including kids) grew very close as we did a ton of things together.

- The OM and my WW held hands/were affectionate within proximity of the OBS or myself when they wouldn't be detected.

- The OM acted as "dad" with my kids. On one occasion, my WW even sent our kid to the OM for a very personal conversation instead of to me.

- As part of the PA, the OM and my WW would sneak away for some manual stimulation. The OM told my WW that she wasn't allowed to "finish" with me later that day as it would be "cheating" on him.

- The OM told my WW that I was her primary H, but that he was her second.

In essence, they were acting as if they were married. This stuff is really stuck in my head as of late as it just takes the feelings of betrayal to a much deeper level.

Wiserallthetime posted 12/10/2014 19:55 PM

So, I recently found out STBXWH and FBFF/MOW would take to or pick up the kids from an extra-curricular activity; she apparently was "always" with him the few times he ran this errand. Though she was supposedly my friend, she never went with me, though I tended to this errand the majority of the time. This activity for the kids ended in early 2010. I find this behavior totally inappropriate and hints at how the A was likely going on at least since 2009, if not long before.

I was asked what I think about the A having gone on so long, with the two betraying me together. My true response was "I try not to think of it." The reality is, there is too much water under that bridge. There are far too many things I did with and for her, and now knowing what she was doing during that time behind my back is just too much.... There are also things he did that were supposedly for me, but which would include my friends of my choosing, but, he knew I'd pick her as one of them; so, the question arises, then, of did he do this thing for me, or because he knew she would benefit, because I would choose her, and it was the only way he could do it for her and get away with it then?? Sigh....

Anyone else have these questions run through their minds? Anyone else have that situation where OW benefited from something STBX did for you and you now wonder if that thing was really for OW all along?

OneFootFirst posted 12/15/2014 02:16 AM

Crushed7,
I don't think those are things that are specific to double betrayal. As far as the physical contact they had while in close proximity to their spouses, I'm pretty sure that falls under the danger/thrill aspect of As that waywards of all types seek. I do think that in situations like these it's harder to separate the A from real life, which in our cases includes M and family on both sides. Basically, I think there is just more crossover-- the escape that the OP was seeking was an escape into your life on some level. That's something I struggle with a lot, and I feel for you. At the very least, I think it makes forgiveness of the OP a slow, if not totally impossible, process.

OneFootFirst posted 12/15/2014 02:24 AM

...and to Girlpower, hugs. Just lots and lots of them. I'm in a pretty good place right now, but I could have written any one of your recent posts at various points in time-- like last week, for example, when I spent my birthday morning locked in the bathroom sobbing. It gets better. And it gets worse. You know the drill. I wish you strength and clarity on your journey.

wolf_heart posted 12/15/2014 15:33 PM

Anyone else have these questions run through their minds? Anyone else have that situation where OW benefited from something STBX did for you and you now wonder if that thing was really for OW all along?

Before and during the A my WH insisted we spend more time together. I wondered during the A why it was such a big deal to him. We were planning a week long camping trip when the A was discovered. I don't even want to think about what they would have been up to if we had gone as planned. He said the A was over, but they were still texting and talking all the time. He was still "in love" with her.

I don't know how two people can say they care about you and put you through this kind of hell.

Wiserallthetime posted 12/16/2014 23:31 PM

Thanks wolf_heart. Unfortunately, we did take that trip, or, rather, those trips, together.... FBFF/MOW and her family (sickening even more is her husband was there, too) went on several trips with STBXWH, myself, and our kids. I now believe the A was already happening long before we took the first trip together, too.
Yes, it does sicken me to now think about how it is likely the two of them were building memories together on these trips, right in front of their spouses and children!!! (I won't bother, because there aren't enough barfy emoticons for this one.....)

The things I am mainly talking about, though, are things like he sent me and a bunch of my friends to a surprise special dinner one year; she was involved, even in the planning. Another year, he sent me and up to three other friends on a trip to the spa; of course, with my not knowing of the A and her being my supposed BFF at the time, he knew she would be chosen as one of those to go with me....
So, with things like that, I now wonder if he really did them for me, or was that really the only way he could do it for her and get away with it?? If it was really done because it would benefit her instead of truly only for me, it totally destroys a lot of special days..... Complicating the matter is my STBX likes to point to the stuff he did for me that he says showed he loved me, but if he really did it for her instead.....what does that say??? (Really, the memories of the events themselves are already tainted by her involvement; it is just a thousand fold worse if what was done was really for her instead of for me....)
I know, it'll drive me crazy trying to figure that out, but I was just wondering if anyone else has this problem, and, if so, how they got past it without ever having the answer.

amialone posted 12/18/2014 21:33 PM

Hi new to this forum. But I'm posting here to get some insight. My story is long so I will try to keep it short. Basically, my H was emotionally/verbally abusive. We made friends with the OW woman early in our marriage. She and I began a friendship. I shared my problems with her and vice versa. But over time I could see she wasn't a good person. So I limited my contact. But our families were close and she stayed friends with my H. My H loves to dance. We use to dance together but then we had 2 kids. So I wasn't able to go out as much. So they stared dancing. Eventually, it turned into an almost nightly thing for them. While I stayed home surg or children. I suspected they were unfaithful. But I had no physical proof. I had always told him that I would leave if he betrayed me that way. So that is how he got away with all his other bad behavior. (I.E. leaving every night, complaining about my looks and performance, neglecting the kids, raging, and later in marriage abusing drugs) after years of this I thought I was going to have a melt down! And I started sticking up for myself and getting some outside help. I even confronted both of them about their relationship. Obviously, they lied and covered up their sin.
19 months ago. We went to his first AA meeting and the rest has been wonderful. A completely different man. The OW moved out of state. Only contacting me when she was in town, through Facebook or a text. Keeping in mind no one has admitted anything. A few weeks ago I was faced with needing the truth. Because everytime I thought about her or heard from her which was alot. I would think did they betray me? So I asked him directly. He told me he had sex with her and now my whole life has been flipped upside down again.
The things I can't get out of my mind -
-OW shared things (stories, hurts, personal stuff) and she just took him she didn't even want him
-she would do such intimate things right in front of me almost flaunting it
I contacted her through email the next day. Explaining the hurt she caused that she knew how broken I was in my marriage and how could she? You were suppose to be my friend. Why couldn't you help me by keeping your hands off and sending him home.
Her reply -I am not sure what you and (H) discussed, butI will agree that I have not always been a good friend and for that I am very sorry. I can tell you that I am more than happy that you and (H) are moving forward in you lives together and hope that your lives together as a family can continue to grow stronger as the years go by. May you all be blessed and continue to care the faith.
DISGUSTING!!! She also texted my husband privately. Sorry you and your wife are having problems. I only told her this much. I always wanted you two to be happy.
On what planet could she want me to be happy while she sleeps with my H!?!.
Ok now I'm venting. I think about replying everyday. But it would probably not be for the best. In fact I'm shaking right now. I'm not suicidal but I often think about ending my life because it is the only way I can truly forget this ever happened. The timing is awful. Because he is no longer that man. I wish I had this all figured out. Sorry for the rant but I really think I needed it.


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