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Madhatters Only Thread

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LosferWords posted 8/8/2018 14:02 PM

Admitting fear takes courage. You'll get through this and come out the other end stronger and healthier than ever. It sounds like you are taking the right steps.

NewWorld posted 8/9/2018 17:58 PM

Turlesdown, Happy to hear you're in IC. I did the same thing you did. In 1974 she told me about
one OM. I immediately created a narrative that excused her from responsibility for her actions.
I blamed myself for 40 years. I was at the age of 61 when she told me the rest. Slept with 6 OM
not 1. Cheated with 8 others she didn't sleep with.
I was definitely codependent. At that point I thought my whole life was a lie. Eventually I found
SI. I realized everything I said and did after d-day #2 was counterproductive. Now I'm almost
8 years out and have mostly recovered. Like you I did IC as well as EMDR, MC, reading, etc.
Like Losferwords said "you've got this, you're taking the right steps".
Btw, now I know why PM is locked. I'm pretty new here too.

LosferWords posted 8/9/2018 22:25 PM

Hello and welcome to you as well, NewWorld. You have quite a story, and so much to heal from. You'll find a lot of support here, sir.

EMDR is something my son is doing, and in 2011 my therapist almost took me down that road before antidepressants really helped me take a turn for the positive. Still contemplating EMDR. What are your feelings on it?

NewWorld posted 8/10/2018 08:42 AM

Thanks LosferWords. Regarding EMDR, it helped somewhat with my combat related PTSD, but no
so much with my marital related issues. Don't know why. My counselor told me some people
respond positively, others don't and some have limited success. I took Cymbalta for a while
in the beginning, couldn't stand it. Tried some others but it seemed to make my tinnitus
worse. So, pick your poison. Glad you've made a decision to move forward to a better life and
hopefully a more rewarding relationship with someone who respects you ( if another relationship
is what you want).

LosferWords posted 8/10/2018 21:43 PM

Thanks, NewWorld. I appreciate the EMDR feedback as well. Different treatments seem to work differently for different folks. I feel like I've been on a pretty good track lately. I might keep EMDR in mind if my continued positive progress stalls for whatever reason.

NewWorld posted 8/12/2018 19:36 PM

Continued success LosferWords.

metoohurt posted 8/13/2018 21:31 PM

drf

[This message edited by metoohurt at 12:18 PM, August 21st (Tuesday)]

turtlesdown posted 8/13/2018 22:20 PM

hey metoohurt -

you doing ok?

I recently just had a ONS that I am still trying to figure out

do you feel guilty? or do you wish you had gone further? where is your head?

I am getting counseling now to get my shit together

metoohurt posted 8/13/2018 23:18 PM

t

[This message edited by metoohurt at 12:18 PM, August 21st (Tuesday)]

Humbled123 posted 9/20/2018 14:28 PM

My wife and i are about 11 months into reconciliation. D day November 2nd 2017. Relapse February 16th 2018, 2 weeks email and 3 burner phone conversations. I am as resentful and angry as i have ever been. I have been seriously thinking about having my own affair or at least just sex. My w is doing everything she can, she's working hard on herself, loving me, etc. The pain is just so deep. I can't unhear stuff. The relapse was especially painful. I caught her on video tape talking to him. She ended the conversation by saying " i love you too baby" in a voice i haven't heard in our 30yr relationship. Then when i called his wife she says " your wife is very sexual, she will do anything". How the fuck do you ever get past that shit? Haunt's me daily!. Question
Would madhatting help me? Get past some of the pain. I don't really want to get divorced. We been together since she was 14 and i was 16

NewWorld posted 9/23/2018 12:39 PM

Hello Humbled. I'm so sorry you find yourself in this situation. Let me cut to the chase,
Madhatting will not help your situation. Don't sacrifice your integrity for a short term
fix. It'll make a crappy situation worse and more complicated. I'm an old man now but back
when I was a young serial cheater madhatter I didn't have integrity. I was selfish, entitled,
with no boundries or moral compass. I hate to think about myself that way. But, thank God,
people CAN change! You know, part of the recovery process is taking care of yourself.
Compromising your values is not taking care of yourself. Years from now you'll want to look
in a mirror and say, "I didn't need someone else to validate me, I got my validation from
within myself". Anyway, I hope you read this before you decide to pull the trigger. Like you
said " I can't unhear stuff", you can't undo stuff either. Once you cheat the first time, you're
a cheater. DON'T be a cheater!

Humbled123 posted 9/24/2018 19:16 PM

Thank you new world. I have not pulled the trigger. I have i\c counseling Thursday

NewWorld posted 9/24/2018 20:25 PM

Glad to hear it Humbled. I know what you mean about not wanting to get divorced. I've been involved with my wife since she was 17 and I was 19. Hard to walk away from 51 years of life
together. I'm glad I grew up in an analog world. Seeing video's is taking the pain to another level, imo. Sounds like your wife is making progress. IC will help you process the pain. Hope to see you in reconciliation forum, if R is still your goal. Good luck Thursday!

Gravycake posted 11/2/2018 21:43 PM

I am going to try to divulge as much as possible in one post. I have made random posts in the last few weeks but they have always come up as not enough info and very one sided. So this may be long and drawn out. My mind is not the clearest as of late. So forgive me if this dosent come out well.
We have been together since 14. We had a baby at 16 and have done remarkably well as a team for our two sons and financially. But we have been marred by infidelity since about 3 years in that Iím aware. He admitted to kissing another woman. At a time when I assumed he was incapable of betraying me. I donít remember how it came up or why. But it did and I was crushed. We moved away from our hometown to do our schooling and it was a tumultuous few years. A young couple with kids living in a college town did not do our situation well. There were nights when he partied until dawn while i stayed home with the kids. He moved In With a college buddy and left me with the boys so we could work things out. During this time he started internet betrayal. On top of leaving me to deal with family life, he discovered the ďnot cheatingĒ of internet affairs. To this day he cannot wrap his head around the fact that this is infidelity. And I donít agree. So for the next 10 years, he continued to frequently indulge whilst telling me I was crazy. I was wrong for checking on him and that my own insecurities weíre the reason for our issues. He knew I was watching and that was never enough to deter him for long. My own need to check up was the driving force behind our problems even though every time I checked I was right. I was told to get over it and to get a grip. It was swept for the sake of the boys. Fast forward 5 years. We return home, and start a great new life. I opened a salon that was a huge success right off the hop. It took much of my time and energy. During most of this time, the internet infidelity was still a factor. Not a year could go by without some form of inappropriate behaviour or texting would take place
. Now. The First PA that Iím aware of. I am stuck at home after having major surgery. Somethings not sitting right. He should be at home caring for me yet night after night, heís ďoutĒ. I get in the car, which I am not supposed to be driving, and decided to ghost by where I feel he might be. Drive up to the house, and I can see him making out with his coworkers wife on their pool table through the basement window. I lose my shit. I knew in my gut he was up to no good and that just sealed it. Somewhere in the fog of the next few weeks this was rugswept again. I was told repeatedly to get over it. If sorry wasnít enough then thereís nothing more he can do for me. Over the next two years this was the pattern. He would drive me past the house rather than taking a different route. He would bitch at me for getting pissy and withdrawn claiming my issues with it are my own and not his problem. Over the course of the next two years it eventually fell into the background.
At work, we all started to notice one particularl employees receiveing super raunchy and sexual texts on her phone, which she never bothered to hide. This went on for the better part of a year? This was a young fat dumpy sullen girl of 24 who lived at home with her parents still. She was the same age as our oldest son. In fact they graduated together. No boyfriends ever to speak of as she was somewhat of a dowdy depressed individual. Her parents were out of towners, and had asked me as friend to keep her close to me and to watch over her for them.
Never in a million years would I comprehend that the persona on the text was actually my husband under a false name. The only reason it ever came to light was when my husbands phone went off one morning while he was in the shower. And in one single message the last year came crumbling down around me and I knew the the truth. This was dec 17. One week before Christmas. When work is crazy mad busy. And heís always away ďhuntingĒ and ďshopping ď while Iím stuck at work. It became clear that he was ďJohnĒ and this had been going On for a very long time. While I confronted him with it, I chose to withhold the information that i knew from her for a few days as I knew I was going to fire her and the salon couldnít handle being short staffed at the craziest time of year. (Stupidest thing I have ever done in my life) I went to work for 5 days knowing this stunned c*** had been sleeping with husband and that they had made a complete and total game of it right under my nose. I believe now this has led to my mental downfall.
I fired her on the 23rd. I texted her and asked when she felt would be a good time to tell me what was going on. Her response was that she had not been a good friend. Thatís it. At some points during this week I had also requested my husband shut it down with her and break it off without her knowing I was aware ... yet he deleted all of his correspondence and messages so they could not be read by me. Although I believe as I was medicated to the hilt and functioning in emergency mode I may not have asked to see them. But it was not an option either way. He claimed he had forgot his fake fb password and they werenít recoverable.
The next five years involved me purging anything and everything that triggered me. We moved. I renovated my shop. I melted down and remodeled my wedding rings. These offered some but not much consolation. We made a half hearted attempt at MC but with a very passive and uninterested counsellor. During this entire time I spent all my energy making up lies, stories and false situations to spare my partner exposure. From my staff, grown children and from our friends, only she and her parents were aware of what had taken place. I told detailed intricately spun lies to ensure no one ever knew what happened. (My second biggest mistake ever)
During the next 5 years I am intermittently told to get over it. I am told I am dwelling in the past. I am told I will never move forward if I canít let go. I have been medicated. Isolated and refuse to have friends for a very long time. He claims to be enduring the brunt of my anger. Tolerating for the greater good of us. And that somehow I should be acknowledging this from him. And yet it was empty. His attitude has been that if I dont cheat, you should be thankful. Iím aware I hurt you and I wonít do it again. Thatís his defence. And I am in the wrong for being stuck? It dosent feel like enough. Fast toward again.
Cue the revenge affair for lack of better words. 5 years out. 100 lbs down and and 1 almost bullet to the head later. I am about me now. Realizing I am entitled to be happy, regardless of his thoughts or feelings. Grown kids are doing well and making amazing progress in their lives. We have everything to be proud of when it comes to our boys. We have moved forward but without true R or honesty as to where we feel we are at. A close family friend makes nice nice with me. I feel like I donít have to account for my crazy. No judgement whatsoever. I feel accepted as I am. We are alike in our thoughts and drives and ideas in what makes for a winning life. Neither of us is anything special, extraordinary or even searching for anything else. But one night, a kiss happens. At a bbq of friends, a couple drinks and bam. It happens. And it is caught in the act by my hubby. There wasnít much forethought in it, it was me being ballsy and brazen because I believed he wouldnít shut me down. There wasnít any forthought or afterthought. It just happened and was caught the moment it happened.
We isolate but spend weeks trying to mend the friendship. The only contact is the OMBS and BS chatting back and forth. All contact with the OM ceases. No texts no contact Only my hubby and his wife have any contact. We try to resume a normal life with each other to preserve the friendship.
When OM goes on a hunting trip I text him knowing itís going to be received in private, without prying eyes and safe to say whatís been withheld for two months. We agree thereís an attraction in a level thatís physical. We agree that we donít want to hurt or endanger our marriages. Yet we acknowledge we want a sexual encounter as it means no expectation nothing other than some excitement to our otherwise mundane lives. Both our spouses have cheated on us in the past with full blown affairs so what can a little sexual satisfaction hurt? We justified it before it ever happened. And then we planned it. And made it happen. We made a one hour window in a hotel room for whatever was going to happen to happen. In a town away from our homes. And there was no taking it back. The sad thing is, the lead up and anticipation was the exciting part. The encounter? Not so much. A bit of a let down to day the least. Over expectation? Yeah. Very much so. We leave with a mutual understanding that we will focus on the friendships involved and not the sexual tension that seems apparent between us. Over the next two weeks a texting fantasy and sexting relationship ensues. My BS discovers this one night by snatching my phone after we had logged into a secret texting app that day. We proceeded to send each other lewd texts that night and it was caught immediately. Hubby knew something was up. I guess this is called true Dday. The moment you know itís everything you suspected. That was in mid September. Between other couple and our wedding anniversaries. We fucked it all up. Other than a text I was forced to send I have had zero contact with OM. I have no desire to speak with him, but my husband somehow forced me to send him a ďgoodbyeĒ text. Which he claims there was not enough hate involved in. I canít help it. I apologized. I tried to own my role. And from that second forward I have not and will not have any contact whatsoever with OM. Yet BS wants to imagine crazy scenarios with hidden phones and secret meetings even though I have given up every password. Submitted to various trackers on my phone and vehicle. Tried to be Transparent as possible. Although with the choice to try to push through this as a couple, I have fallen into a deep depression and am currently suffering debilitating anxiety and panic. I am disgusted and horrified by my behaviour. I am disgusted and horrified in retrospect by my lack of ability to to react to my previous situations. I am angry, sorry disappointed and heartbroken by both of our actions over the past decade. And it took me right back to square one. I know we are supposed to separate and deal with all aspects individually, but it all runs into one bloody messy river of pain for both of us. right now. Until I can get my mental state to okay I donít dare try for anything. I have been in and out of the dr over the last few weeks and she believes I have ptsd and delayed distress syndrome. Turtling. Hiding. Avoiding. And it all comes out in a bomb later on. So I canít hide anymore. Itís in the open and it will be what it will be. I hope I have given enough insight as to why this all came about. This is my first big vent. I hope it was detailed enough. When you are 43 and have been together since 14 itís a long history with much at stake. We both profess to want to save our marriage at all costs. Itís s matter of restoring damage. Rebuilding in the right order and making each other the priority. I have been reading a lot In The healing library and am slowly trying to pinpoint a place to start. We have so much to overcome that itís overwhelming trying to figure out where to start without harming each other more. I
Apologize this is so long.

Jondoe posted 11/3/2018 01:32 AM

Ok so here it is. Laying it all out here. Iím not sure if this is against site policies or not but at this point I donít really care. GravyKate is my Madhatter wife as some of you may or may not have guessed. I have read through her posts here and the replies that she has gotten and quite frankly a lot of what I read pisses me off quite deeply. In fairness right now there is a lot of anger that may or may not be properly placed, I canít tell these days. But I would like to address this post and clarify a few thing.

She is correct, we were both kids when we had our first child. I got my wife pregnant when we were 15 and since 15 I have worked to pay for and provide for my child. My wife obviously still lived with her parents when she was pregnant but I worked commercial fishing during that summer and when I returned home I gave her all the money that I made to pay for what would be needed for when the baby arrived. When we were both freshly 16 we had our first child and I rode my bike to the hospital to witness the birth of my oldest boy. At the age of 17 we moved out on our own and truly began raising our family on our own. I dropped out of school in grade 12 and went to work full time to provide.

Somewhere around 18 I made my first indiscretion and at a local party I shared a kiss with another girl. It was a stupid stupid deciosion that I have no excuse for. All I can say is that I was a stupid kid. But letís go back to my summers commercial fishing which I did from the time I was 12 until my oldest boy was 1 and I was 17. That last summer I met another guy a year older than me from our home town and after talking for awhile figured out that he actually knew my wife (girlfriend at the time). He proceeded to tell me that he used to hang out with my ďgirlfriendĒ lots and that I should truly get a paternity test for my son. Lovely.

So now letís fast forward a few years to when we moved away so I could start my apprenticeship. Yes it was a rough time for us and we did separate for awhile. I didnít however move in with a ďcollegeĒ friend. I moved in with my coworker. But we will get back to him in a bit. Did I party lots when we lived there? Yes. Did she? Yes. Was I gallivanting when we were separated? no. In fact we spent almost every day together and I never had a single moment of indiscretions while separated. However I did stay at her place one night so that she could go out partying with her friends. Well about 1 am her car pulls in and Iím waiting for her to come in the house but after about 5 or 10 minutes she is still out in the car. So out I go to see whatís up and low and behold I see another man in the driver seat and a women performing oral sex on him. I rip the door open and to my...... horror? Relief? I see that it is not my wife it is her friend my wife is nowhere to be found. I ask where she is and they say they donít know. They all left at the same time but my wife was too drunk to drive so another guy ďfriendĒ drove her home, yet they arent here. They didnít show up for over an hour and I never have gotten an explanation of where they were.

One other night while I was out having drinks with a guy that I knew from my apprenticeship training at the college he came to me and said he was hooking up with some girl and asked if he could go to my car. I stupidly said yes and gave him my keys. Some time later, a couple weeks maybe, my wife found a condom wrapper in the car. So fucking stupid of me to put myself in that situation yet here I was and I know exactly how that looks and sounds and I canít excuse that. It is what it is and I apologized and asked her to forgive my stupidness. I never cheated on her at that time yet over the years I have born the brunt of the anger and accusations about that night.

This time that we moved to another town was when we first got a computer. And I found unfortunately that it was quite exciting to chat with people. Women in particular. You could anonymously tell them anything and you could flirt and pretend that you werenít who you were. You could be exciting. My wife caught me chatting with women. It was not a good time. Over the years I have not told her ďto get over itĒ as she says. I have only uttered those words once and again I will get back to that in a bit. What I have said is that I am deeply sorry for what I did. I also have told her that although I understand her feelings about it and that I also understand that it was 100% wrong, I think that classifying those times as affairs is inaccurate. No chat conversations at the time were anything ongoing at all and were for the most part single conversations that involved flirtatious talk. Across the line and unacceptable? Absolutely. Complete betrayal and horrible judgement on my part. I have no excuse for my actions they were mine to own. And I never even questioned how she labeled those actions until nearly 10 years later when she would still claim numerous affairs on my part.

Now back to my ďcollege buddyĒ who was in fact simply a coworker and also my best friend at the time. Well one year at work we had a staff Christmas party at the bodyshop that I worked at and the neighboring shop crew was there as well and the party continued on fairly late into the night. After it dies down we all went home. Fast forward to the next Monday at work, the owner of the adjacent shop takes me aside and tells me that at one point in the evening during the partying he walked in on my friend and my wife in the neighboring shop. She was sitting on a snowmobile with her hands on the handlebars and my friend was sitting behind her with his arms around her. He said that they stopped right away and acted like nothing was going on. When I confronted her about this she couldnít for the life of her remember that. And that whatever he saw he must have been mistaken or taken it out of context. So I let that one go too. Turns out that another time at a later date she did kiss him and she admitted to that but that got swept away. Iím favt after we moved back to our home town he still used to call her on her birthday and other occasions. But I was supposed to be ok with that.

So as I mentioned we moved back to our home town after my apprenticeship was completed. Well not our home town but much closer. Here she is correct. I did kiss another woman. It was a horrible act of betrayal and I have no excuse. But as far as me driving her past the house? Thatís a little dramatic. The house is on the highway leading out of town. When you leave town you have to go by there unless you take a detour far out of the way. And to be fair, she never said ďplease donít go this wayĒ. We just went the way we always did but I hear about it years later how cruel it was to do that. We never discussed it and there in lies a huge part of the problem.

Fast forward a couple of years to my PA. A low point of my existence for sure. I own my actions completely it was and is my fault. I begged for forgiveness. On my knees begging. She didnít need to forgive me, she owed me nothing. I had done the worst thing possible to her and destroyed her trust and our vows. Shattered my life and hers. Shattered my opinion of myself. I never thought that I could do that. But we agreed to move forward and try to rebuild our marriage. I vowed to do anything and everything that I could to help her through it. I endured her anger. Tried to comfort her in her hurt. Knew that she watched me through various means and let her do it unobstructed. To this day she throws digs and jabs at me and I just accept them without any push back. As she said in her post the OW was much younger than me. Every time we see a couple, on tv or in real life that there is any age gap at all she makes a comment about how fucking gross that is. Itís a very thinly veiled dig at my PA. I canít count how many times she has told me, years later that she's Not my little slut. Another direct reference to my PA. Yet I never say anything. After about 3 years post Dday of my PA During one argument where she was throwing my A in my face again, as she is entitle to, I did say that she needs to get over it. I apologized for what I said and tried to explain that my words didnít reflect my meaning. I never meant that she needed to ďget over itĒ. I tried to explain that what I meant to say and the words I should have used were ďwe need to try to move past if we canĒ I was a horrible person and a horrible husband, and even the words that I should have said maybe werenít the correct ones. But ďGet over it!Ē Is definitely a little out of context

So now a little bit about my PA. No excuses here just what it was. My AP was the aggressor. I was weak and didnít shut it down but she approached me and actively tried to instigate things before they ever did happen. Numerous times she would invite me over and I turned her down. Until I didnít. I know that holds no water because ultimately I participated and didnít end it before it started. I held on to the good feelings that she was making me have and to be honest I was happy to leave it at a simple text relationship and numerous times declined the offer to come visit in person. Eventually I did and then I continued for the better part of a year. As I said a low point in my life. I hold a shame that I will never shed.

I mention about my PA because of the difference between mine and hers. I know that ultimately it doesnít matter because an affair is an affair but right now I am so fresh in this I do feel like it matters a bit. I resisted a PA. Not well enough. Because I did it. So it doesnít matter if I say no a thousand times as soon as I say yes it undoes that. But she was the admitted aggressor. She sought him out and tried to convince him to come to her. I donít know why that matters to me but it just does. I said that I turned down my AP a few times before I didnít. It was a 10 minute drive to my APís house. And numerous times at the beginning she invited me over and I couldnít make that ten minute dr. I turned away and told her I just couldnít do it. Ultimately she said we just needed to talk it out and thatís what got me there. My wife arranged to meet my best friend (again) in a town 2 hours away. She made that drive easily. And continued to meet him in a sleazy hotel to have sex.

Now I want to back track a little bit here. Back in July of this year we were at a bbq at my best friends house. I had been having a gut feeling for a few weeks that something just wasnít right. So when I noticed that my wife and my friend were both missing I went looking and as I came around the side of the house I was dumbfounded. I was sure what I saw but at the same time I couldnít have. I was positive that I just caught the very tail end of my wife pulling away from a kiss with my friend and then she turned and went back into the house directly away from me while my ďfriendĒ continued on like nothing had just happened. I confronted my wife and she denied it until she couldnít. We left there and I didnít make nearly the scene that I should have being the number of people that were there and I was still in shock and not sure of what I had actually just seen. I was going to kill him. My wife begged me not to. She told me how it was all her fault and he had no idea that she was going to do that she had caught him completely off guard. He was after all a stand up guy. As she mentioned in her post she was recently down 100lbs and it just got to her. She wanted to know if she was still desirable to another man and that she made a stupid mistake. That she had no feelings for him at all it was just a mistake. I was crushed. In all of this it took my wife 14 hours before she even said sorry. Then it was a simple matter of fact sorry. Yet she begged me not to throw away a friendship based on her stupidity. I talked to my ďfriendĒ and he bawled while apologizing to me. After it was all said and down I agreed that maybe given time we could all get over it but it would take time. We spent a little time together after that but not a ton. Things were getting easier tho.

So then she pursues him again. And again he is up for it. How stupid am I? DDay for her PA was Sept 24th. 4 days after our 22nd wedding anniversary. Iíve never felt this pain before. Never had this rage boiling inside before. But this is Karma right. Iíve done all of this to her. Mostly. And she is taking it hard. So hard. I know what itís like being on that side and it is no fun seeing the hurt you cause. It hurts almost as bad seeing it as it does having it. Almost. So here we are. Sheís a mess and I need to fix her and heal her. Ya. For what. Here we sit now after I have endured any and all that she has felt the need to throw my way for over 6 years. Here we are barely over a month out from the second Dday in a VERY short time. What do I have now? Well in the past month she has deleted texts. Deleted phone calls, lied about where she is going and been. Now letís get it straight I do in fact believe that she has had no contact with the OM. I do believe that there are simple explanations for the discrepancies but the fact still is that she has lied about them. As little as a week ago. But in this time I have heard no less than 4 times that if I canít talk when she wants to, if I canít find a way to move forward then we have no chance and are doomed. We are doomed.

Now hereís a side story that I left out. My dad has been ill for quite some time. The past year he has been much worse and has been in a care facility. And after a recent surgery that led to infection he got even worse. The month prior to Dday, the month when she took up seeking out a PA with my friend my dad was really bad and his days were numbered so I was spending as much time with him as I could. His care Home is an hour drive away and I was doing it 3-4 times a week to be with him while I could. Well a week after Dday (sept 24th) my dad passed away (oct 3rd) So ya. This past month has been tough. But I need to get over it right. I havenít been able to grieve my dad at all. In fact I feel horrible because Iíve used his death as a crutch. How horrible is that. Not very many people know about my wifeís affair. So now Iím allowed to be upset because Iím grieving death right. Such bullshit.

Well I know this is long. It is what it is. Iíve read what my wife has posted about me and Iíve read the comments. That Iím a serial cheater with no remorse. Not husband material and I should be divorced immediately etc etc. Ya I get it. But one side of the story is never the best to offer advise on.


[This message edited by Jondoe at 1:47 AM, November 3rd (Saturday)]

onlytime posted 11/3/2018 16:36 PM

Gravycake and Jondoe:

I don't know whether it is okay that you both posted your stories on this thread, but I am glad you did, as it gives a better picture of what is and has been going on in your relationship.

I'm going to be pretty blunt here, and please don't misconstrue this as an attack, as that is not what this is. It is an observation based on what you have both shared:

You both come across as very emotionally immature. Given the fact that you became parents at such a young age, that is no surprise, but it is obviously negatively affecting your M and ability to communicate and cope with issues effectively.

In both of your posts there is a great deal of minimization and lack of real accountability. If you want to have any hope at all of reconciling your M and/or improving your individual selves, that needs to change. Stop trying to downplay the things you've done and take 100% ownership of your individual shit. Y'all need to get real and be completely honest with each other...about everything. No excuses. No blameshifting. No bullshit.

Unless you can get really fucking real, and honest, with yourselves AND with each other you will continue in the same unhealthy and toxic cycle you are currently stuck in.

Stop trying to compare pain. You have both hurt each other. If you want any hope of a future together you are going to have to learn to understand, validate, and have empathy and compassion for the hurt you caused in the other.

There is a lot of healing and personal growth work that needs to be done by both of you (whether your M survives these betrayals or not). The question is, are you both willing and motivated to do the work on yourselves? Are you willing to dig deep?
Can you get real, and honest and vulnerable? Can you learn to be humble?

What do you each want for yourselves, and your M, going forward?

Gravycake posted 11/3/2018 18:01 PM

Thank you for a reply. I have been waiting on one all day. I know this a mess and welcome. Any outside input without judgement. We are codependent mh inside and out. Just desperately seeking where to start.

Gravycake posted 11/15/2018 18:41 PM

[This message edited by Gravycake at 10:00 PM, November 15th (Thursday)]

FindingDory posted 12/12/2018 09:55 AM

Dear Gravycake and Jondoe,

I read through both of your stories and can feel so much pain from both sides. JD, I'm so sorry about the loss of your Dad. It sucks and the timing couldn't have been worse. I lost my Mom 2 months after my BS/WS lost his job under bad circumstances and I was in a really BAD place. Please seek IC. Both of you, please just do it. Under all the hurt I think you both really care for each other. Stop the finger pointing and scorekeeping. You both acted stupidly (sorry, don't know how to put it nicely) and you both have some healing and apologizing to do. I've just recently become a BS after 18 years of being a WS, so that makes me a MH now. Some of what I've learned (still a work in progress) is that each side of the As need to be discussed separate. When talking about her infidelity, she is not allowed to bring up your's. Same for her. Each of you have 2 hats to wear. Own both. Be remorseful when it's your turn. Be angry when it's your turn. One last thing, JD...the OEAs HURT. I've just recently discovered my WS has been having multiple OEAs and it HURTS. He said things to these women that he's never said to me in our 35 years together. Things I'd practically begged for him to say to me but he wouldn't. Then he easily said to these other women. So please own that what you were doing online most definitely DOES count as infidelity. Bottom line, I wish you both the best. I hope you continue coming to SI, as it has help me wear both MY hats and is helping me to process this.

Gravycake posted 12/16/2018 18:27 PM

Sadly we are still not in a place where communication is an option. We have not discussed my A. We have not discussed his A. I understand that my indiscretion needs to be addressed first. The critical wound. But his actions and words lead me to back off. Leave him alone and not to engage. Itís been since September. I am well aware of timelines and allowing for space, but at some point a conversation has to take place. I am just going to retreat. Focus on work and carrying the home load. Let him do what he needs to and after the new year, I will instigate a movement. Be it D or whatever, there has to be some sort of acknowledgment. Itís not fair to not communicate in any fashion while continuing in with a false expectation. I can do no right at the moment, and that can only carry On Unaddressed for so long. Limbo sucks, but he calls all the shots right now.

[This message edited by Gravycake at 7:26 PM, December 16th (Sunday)]

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