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Madhatters Only Thread

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Melozia posted 3/6/2016 06:14 AM

Gaaaahhh I feel like such an idiot. Probably the worst thing I could have done....completely NOT 180 approved....but I miss my BH/WH so much. I texted him that I loved him and miss him and want him to come home. Don't get me wrong, he'd have to NC OW to do so.

It was a weak moment. I haven't been sleeping and I'm up thinking about him. Just bad, I know. Part of me doesn't even want a response. I'm not comfortable being this vulnerable, but I know it's ok for me to be.


AngelFlower posted 3/7/2016 09:09 AM

This stuff is so hard. Hang in there.

tired girl posted 3/7/2016 10:39 AM

You fell off the horse, it's ok, this is a learning process. Just get back on and try again.


Melozia posted 3/7/2016 11:17 AM

Thanks. I stopped beating myself up. I know I need to stay focused. And I'm determined to take care of myself. I'm still hurt and sad. But I'm thinking about things a little more objectively, as much as I can.

I am struggling with my lack of control over what's happening, but that's something I have to continue to work on.

Sadlady14 posted 3/8/2016 01:04 AM

Hi Melozia,

I am so sorry you are dealing with the pain of his A. I also think you are on the right path. Texting him is understandable as we are all human. It doesn't change the boundaries that you set with him.

The anxiety and sleeplessness can be terrible. Meditation may help, there are some good guided ones online. If it really lasts, you might see your PCP about medication. Sleep deprivation magnified my anxiety and despair by a lot. Once I got even one good nights sleep I felt like a real person again. My thinking was much clearer. Relaxation breathing is another good tool.

I didn't go back and read all your posts but are you in IC? Do you have some support?

Hang in there. One minute at a time if you need to. Sending strength.

Melozia posted 3/8/2016 04:20 AM

Thank you Sadlady14. I have always struggled with anxiety, of course my own A being disclosed kicked it into overdrive and now his A has blown it completely off the chart! I am struggling, but I am managing with the support of close friends. Sleeplessness is becoming a big problem. I get a few hours of sleep a night, if I'm lucky. Strangely I don't feel tired....adrenaline maybe. I don't take sleep aids because my appetite is nonexistent and I don't eat much (when I do, I have a hard time keeping it down). I've lost over 15 lbs in the past 7 weeks....I look terrible.

That sounds like such a pity party. Ugh.

I am in IC and it is very beneficial. She is very effective and fully supports me and my choices. She believes in the idea of detaching right now to help myself. I'm doing alot of reading and homework and Journaling. It's helping but I know this is a long journey.

I finally asserted myself to WS today. We run a business from our home so he's here often. We've gotten into the habit of hugging when he leaves (he hugged me this morning while I was making a cup of coffee. ...seemingly for no reason). When he was leaving he asked me how I was doing. I told him I was taking care of myself the best way I knew how. He said he worries about me and I responded that as long as he continued to be in contact with his affair partner in any way, he needn't worry about me. He just stared at me (his typical 'deer in headlights' response to everything) and after a moment he leaned in to hug me. I pulled away and told him he wasn't allowed to hug me anymore because it made me uncomfortable. He looked, I don't know, confused maybe frustrated. I told him that I wasn't trying to cause a fight, just that I thought it was important to establish some boundaries. I told him to gave a good night and said goodbye cheerily as I could. But it felt good to make him aware of how I felt. I think the hugs were for him more than me. So now I'm refusing to reward him in that way.

[This message edited by Melozia at 4:29 AM, March 8th (Tuesday)]

tired girl posted 3/8/2016 21:59 PM

Detachment is really, really hard in these situations.

I hope that he comes to his senses soon and realizes that he needs to start to work on himself as well.


Sadlady14 posted 3/10/2016 00:27 AM

TG is right. Detachment is really hard. It sounds like you did a good job of it.

The difficulty eating is a toughie. I too quickly lost weight at one point. It helped to eat small amounts throughout the day of foods that were easier to keep down. A multivitamin might be a good idea right now too.

If the difficulty sleeping continues, I would see your PCP. Sleep deprivation makes everything feel worse, especially anxiety. There are even natural options to help.

I am glad your IC and friends are good support. That is really important.

Keep us updated with how you are. ((Hugs))

ktez posted 3/11/2016 11:46 AM

Hi all. Having a bad day, similar to the last 500 odd days ive had. Thoughts please - Is it always the fault of the person who had the affair first in the madhatters situation? Like, my decision to text 2 APs over 2 years on and off resulted in my H having a short PA with a family friend and initially leaving me for her? Because anytime I express my hurt or anger, I get reminded by him with what I did. And that he wouldn't have done what he did if I hadn't had any affairs. I compartmentalised mine so as far as I was aware, it wasn't affecting our relationship. I know now this wasn't the case. I'm really struggling.

AngelFlower posted 3/11/2016 11:59 AM

No, it's not your fault. You may have provided him the necessary justification, but that is all. Nothing excuses it. Everyone experiences some disappointment, trauma, etc in their life. We don't excuse the first WS, despite that they likely had some prior trauma such as FOO, sexual/child abuse, parental abandonment, etc. so why would we allow a second WS to excuse it?

ktez posted 3/11/2016 12:10 PM

Thanks so much angelflower for responding. It's very difficult because he didn't know about my affairs until the day he was leaving me for his AP. I came clean about what I'd done and it was like a eureka moment for him. And he justified why he had behaved like that. He entered NC shortly after that and has been committed to R ever since but I'm struggling. Because his was a PA And with a family friend and he was in love. Mine wasn't physical and didn't know my H or family. I just can't move on like he is. I'm gutted.

AngelFlower posted 3/11/2016 12:26 PM

So wait...he already had an AP BEFORE he learned of your A? And he is using THAT as his excuse, saying he never would have done it if you had not? That is the CLASSIC WW line of thought....

ktez posted 3/11/2016 12:53 PM

Yes. But not so much I suppose justifying it; more losing patience because 16 mths into R I still get very down. I'm not sure if I'm. Maybe depressed now because of the trauma of it all. And I'm selfish too, because of the restraint I showed in not progressing to a PA, I don't see mine as hurtful as his. But I know that wrong. He is hurting just as much. I just find the sex bit really tough. I have extremely low self esteem and I'm just struggling to get over that this 10 yr younger, skinny, attractive woman was able to take my H away from me and his 4 kids. Even if it was just temporary.

AngelFlower posted 3/11/2016 13:14 PM

I have struggled with the "you hurt me more" aspect. I had 2 very brief PAs, neither of which involved sex. My H had a 10 month long full blown A, with 4 of those months involving repeated sexual encounters. I got an STD from him. But the truth is...we both hurt. We were both betrayed. I like to compare it to stepping on each other's toes (although, of course, the magnitude of the pain is outrageous) in a way. I stepped on his first...maybe it wasn't so hard...but I did it...and I did it on purpose. Then he turns around and steps on mine. Does he get to say mine doesn't hurt just bc I stepped on his first? Heck no!! Does he get to say that mine should heal faster bc I did it first? Heck no! Do I get to say his doesn't hurt bc he stepped on mine later? Heck no! Get it?

ktez posted 3/11/2016 13:49 PM

Yes I get that completely. We are returning to MC soon and this is something I really need to address as I feel it's holding us both back in the recovery process. Me with healing and him with understanding the reasons why he chose to have an affair. I know mine...none of them justifications, rather just an understanding of how pathetic and selfish I had become.

Also with regards STD, I have never got checked out and that's always on back of my mind.

I need to just get a grip of myself and start taking control of the situation.

AngelFlower posted 3/11/2016 14:56 PM

Please, please, please get yourself checked out. He gave me an STD and I never knew I had been infected until SEVEN YEARS LATER when it was discovered it caused me to lose my unborn child. This is no joke. Even "just" chlamydia can cause life-altering, permanent effects.

ktez posted 3/11/2016 15:10 PM

I'm so sorry for what you've been through losing your little one.
I'll book an appt on Monday. I'm totally ignorant of stds and the effects. WH had unprotected sex with OW once (as far as I know) She'd only split from her H and don't think she had many BFS before that as she married young. But again I am probably being very naive about the whole thing.

AngelFlower posted 3/11/2016 15:29 PM

Big 2X4. I can ABSOLUTELY assure you that you are being naive about it. My WH thought SHE was "clean." Why? Because she was in a "monogamous" relationship and a mom who "talked about being a mom, like how she cooked for her kid." That takes some serious mental gymnastics...she was SOOOOO monogamous, she was having sex with my H!!! My H only had unprotected sex once too. But he ALSO performed unprotected oral on her. Doh! And, really, if she was having unprotected sex with a MM she barely knew and allowing him to place his unprotected man parts in her mouth on their first sexual encounter, could she have REALLY been that clean? No way, no how. Not only do YOU need to get tested PRONTO, but HE absolutely needs to NOW also. I WAS TESTED during his A bc I was having some lady issues. The doctors MISSED THE DIAGNOSIS!!! Had I not been a fool and insist he get tested, perhaps I would not have lost my child, come close to dying, endured 3 very expensive and painful surgeries, be living in constant pain, and rendered completely infertile barely into my 30s. And that was "just" chlamydia.

Melozia posted 3/11/2016 16:08 PM

I stepped on his first...maybe it wasn't so hard...but I did it...and I did it on purpose. Then he turns around and steps on mine. Does he get to say mine doesn't hurt just bc I stepped on his first? Heck no!! Does he get to say that mine should heal faster bc I did it first? Heck no! Do I get to say his doesn't hurt bc he stepped on mine later? Heck no! Get it?

Thank you AngelFlower for this analogy. Just this week, WH slapped me with the "what you did was worse", "you hurt me more" justification for his ongoing A. It's incredibly painful since, in order to throw out that "excuse", they inadvertently acknowledge that they are - in fact -causing you hurt and betrayal.

I see his justifications and compartmentalizing for what it is. ...but it doesn't make it any less devastating.

Sadlady14 posted 3/13/2016 01:35 AM


You already received some good advice. Just my two cents.

Your situation seems somewhat unique. I do not see how your H can claim AT ALL that you caused his A. First BC we are each responsible for ourselves regardless of our situation and also BC he did it without knowing about yours. They need to be dealt with separately and specifically, it really sounds like you need your H to hear and acknowledge your pain (this is a process backed up by actions IMHO) and then the two of you need to decide how to move forward in R if that is what you both want. Maybe your MC could help with how to deal with them separately and not compare.

As for who hurts more, I know my H was likely hurt more. Yet, we will really never know. either way we have to deal with the pain that is there.

As for the sex part, it can be hard, intrusive thoughts pop in as well as mind movies. Ugh. They seem to get less for me with time and I really try to stay in the present moment but sometimes they are just there. Not sure I have great advice on this other than you have been heard.

As for the depression from the trauma, yes, it really sucks. But with all the trauma, it sort of makes sense, not as a good thing but as, yes this affected you a lot and BC you care and feel, the depression is the reaction. Of course, it needs to be dealt with over time. Tonight I went to dinner with my H and then he had somewhere else to be after and on the way home, I just started crying. Dinner had been good and normal. But when I got in the car all the what have I done came back down on me. Not really as self pity,but just that realization coming to the surface again. And I just accepted it and was like yep, you did that and you are moving toward becoming your best self, don't get stuck back there.

Take care of yourself.

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