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Madhatters Only Thread

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Sadlady14 posted 1/22/2016 23:53 PM

Limbo63,

(((Hugs)))

I feel like you would probably get better advice from the BS at this point BC it seems to me that is your primary role now, IMHO.
I think you definitely need to do the 180. Have you thought about outing him to family? Mutual friends since she is a family friend?
I hope some of the old timers and guides chime in. I am not the best to give advice on this one.
Sending you strength.

MrsThePoint posted 1/23/2016 09:31 AM

Hello, I'm new here and I'm a madhatter. I can't be bothered to type it all out again (loooong story!) but my thread is here if you want to read all about it: http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=577344
Long story very short, H liked me to sleep with other people (as a sexual thing he enjoyed - I know, odd!) but I stepped over the line by doing it secretly a couple of times (same guy). He then had a 6 month affair. We're trying to reconcile. We had the chat about my A 6 months ago and I thought we were ok, but I found texts with his OW a month ago saying 'a year ago today ' and 'missing you'. Turns out he had a 6 month affair that ended 6 months ago (about 1 month after we spoke about my A and decided to give our M 100% - after which conversation, he shagged her in our bed)!

Well it's nice to be here. I just thought I'd introduce myself before joining in.

MrsThePoint posted 1/23/2016 09:48 AM

Limbo63 that sounds awful. I agree with the others who say leaving is the easier option. It's so hard to live with uncertainty. I'm 99.9% sure I've heard all the truth from my H and he broke ALL contact with her. He answers all my questions completely without hesitation, no matter how personal, and even with that, I'm still not 100% sure we will make it (though we are trying). If I wasn't 99% convinced, he'd be out the door!

My main worry is that, even though he's very sorry now, doesn't mean he won't do it again in another 10 years' time when the sorryness fades and he gets bored, and I'm not as attractive as I am now etc. I don't want to waste another 10 years, I find that very scary. If I have to start again I want it to be now. I used to know for sure 100% that he'd never do this to me - I'd have bet my house on it. That will never ever be the case again, because he's shown it could happen. I think I will get over it, but I'm not completely sure. However, I might never be completely sure of anything ever again, finding out he did that was like my universe turning inside out!

limbo63 posted 1/28/2016 16:07 PM

thank you for your responses. Sorry for my delay in responding.

SL14...I was wondering if madhatters had issues with S or D because of the "well I did it, so I should forgive him" thought process. I wonder if that's what kept me stuck, on top of the other crap (financial issues, etc). I have not outed him to his family or friends. simply because if we do stay together, I don't want anyone to know. I know a 2X4 is on it's way..
I talked to her over the phone a couple years ago and threatened to tell her parents if she didn't stop (she's 17 years younger, of course, and single and very tied to her parents) His family is not talking to him right now anyway. another story....It is embarrassing for me too and I just don't want people to know myself.

MTP, thank you for your perspective. Asking myself if I'll even want to stay if he does everything right is helpful....

I don't know, I just feel so effing stuck....

Sadlady14 posted 2/1/2016 00:07 AM

I am only a year out from D day but I understand what you are asking. After my H had his RA, I didn't really think of D or S BC I was pretty convinced it was over and his was very short. If he had continued while I knew about it that would have been a different story.
The pain I felt when I caught him IMing her was horrific. I am sure I sound like a big hypocrite but he did not discover my A. I confessed, although in a really shitty way, and it was over the next day. I felt relieved when his A was over and started to feel better when he let me know he loved me.
I think when spouses linger in the affair when there partner knows, I am just not made for that so probably in your shoes I would be thinking S or D.
My H also knows if he ever does it again it is over. I still don't trust him now, I think he actually trusts me more than I trust him. He has not done a lot to build trust BC his whole explanation is that he had to have RA to stay That's a whole other post.
So I don't know how your A went down but at some point, it becomes about the present and the fact that your H seems to be (gently) fairly noncommittal to you. And how do you feel about that? Maybe you have not really processed those feelings BC you are worried about your son, $, etc which are all very realistic things to worry about. Yet you have to decide how you want your life to be.
Sending you peace and strength.

limbo63 posted 2/2/2016 13:21 PM

SL14....Thank you. I think you are correct on all counts. I have not processed it. I can't have or I would've done something by now, right? I know when I re-read his texts, the ones I have found over the multiple ddays, I have screen grabbed, so I have them to read over, Some as recent as November, When I read them I get angry enough to kick him out. I've asked him to leave a couple times when this has happened, but he doesn't leave then we relapse into SOS. It's hurting my self confidence I know that....thank you for the gentle 2X4 ....I needed to hear those things...

Sadlady14 posted 2/3/2016 22:17 PM

Hang in there Limbo. You are in a difficult situation. Are you in IC?

limbo63 posted 2/5/2016 15:55 PM

SL14,

I have been in IC, but am not now. After the first DDay, 5 years ago, I went to one counselor who was helpful in the immediate aftermath, but was not an expert on infidelity or marriage that I could tell (it was one of those work freebies, my only real choice at the time, due to financial issues). And we thought my WH was done with the A, cuz he was "caught". LOL. little did we know. So her advice was to "keep talking, tell him what you require to rebuild trust, he needs to be transparent", blah blah blah. Well I thought we were back on track....you know the drill. Fast forward five years....in the past year I have started seeing a different counselor (after another freebie at work, who was a "quack" in my mind....but a Ph D ...he asked me if I had "low self esteem" and told me I was "resilient"), who again helped me with the initial feelings, but was not able to guide me really. she basically just let me talk. And sometimes quite honestly, I feel like such an idiot (for "letting" this continue and not doing anything, although I have tried to kick him out a few times), that I don't really want to talk to any one else about it. I guess it is shame. I know it's not my fault, but I can't help but feel what people must be thinking. So, I thought, I don't know what these counselors are really supposed to do for me, but they are just not helping. so I figure when I get mad enough, I'll just do it on my own. I know I probably haven't found the right counselor yet, but ????

Sadlady14 posted 2/6/2016 01:19 AM

Maybe try the Find a Local Counselor link here in the upper Left corner. I hear what you are saying but regardless of what you decide it sounds like a long road and some outside help might be good.

Sadlady14 posted 2/20/2016 03:02 AM

Not Sure What to Do....

H and I seem to be reconciling. Everything going pretty well for nearly the past month once we got past the first anniversary of my Dday of me confessing my A. Right around anniversary of this D day we had a big blow up. No big surprise but at the time I thought all the really bad ones were over. We didn't talk or text except the necessaries related to kids for 24 hours. That hadn't happened for about 11 months. Strangely I felt calm. Not anxious or panicky like earlier in the year. I felt like no matter what happened, including D, I could finally handle it although I have wanted to R all along.

Got the kids to bed and asked him if he would make time to talk. We did and it was a really good convo. But....at one point he brought up his RA/ONS and how he never would have C on me had I not first. I said that might be true but it was your decision and your responsibility and that it still hurts at times. Not sure what else was said and he said something to the effect of, I don't ever want to talk about my RA/ONS again. I did not say anything to that. I was thinking like hell. He said it again and I looked at him but didn't agree. And I ALWAYS reply.

So his D day is right around the corner. I am not triggering much but I feel really really pissed at him for it at times. And almost as much as that, I want him to address, apologize, take responsibility for all the shitty things he said to me in the past year. Some I know were venting and I can let a lot of those go as with time are lessening in importance. But some statements linger and live in my thoughts.

His actions lately, you ask? Well, things have been good. He texts me several times a day. Finds me when we are together for hugs, kisses, etc. we hang out, we talk, it seems really good.

Of course there are things I want answers to that he does not want to go talk about. Like how could he do to me what devastated him so much? Answer revenge and states there is no way he could have stayed otherwise. I just can't quite accept that as a complete answer but every time it is brought up, no change, no further insight. Do I keep bringing it up? Is it truth?
Then I need to go through some things he said in the past year and say real or not real?
And lastly, is now real. Are you pretending? This one came up BC of some posts I read on here of BH faking R for like three years. I literally almost passed out when I read it. I do not think my H could fake it for that long though. But who knows??? He did give me a wonderful valentine day card that was very future focused.

Other than getting those pieces of information, I feel like I will be able to continue to move forward.

So even after a year, I will answer anything he asks me or talk about anything he wants to, but how do I bring that stuff up when he has said he doesn't want to talk about his, when 98 percent of the time I feel like the FWW, and I am afraid of it blowing everything up????

Please, I need your thoughts, insights and suggestions. Bawling for the first time in awhile.....

Timeline in profile.

AngelFlower posted 2/22/2016 14:06 PM

Sadlady...I do not think it is OK for you not to talk about his infidelity. BOTH of you are NOW betrayed and it hurts for BOTH of you. Fourteen years later, I still have to talk about my cheating with my husband. And 7 years later, he has to talk about his. He doesn't get to minimize what he did. Just bc "you did it first" doesn't mean what he did was ok, or that it hurt you any less. These are very childish attitudes.

I also think that the "I cheated bc you did" line is crap. That may have been what he TOLD himself to make it ok, but that isn't really why. The real reason... HE HAS UNHEALTHY WAYS OF COPING WITH ANGER, hurt, sadness, etc JUST LIKE EVERY WS. That is the real reason why. He needs to develop healthier coping mechanisms, just like every WS.

I think the only way to confront these issues is to talk about them head on, no concealing, no holding back (of course, it needs to be done in a gentle, mature way). An analogy that worked for me and my husband...if he stepped on my toe first, deliberately, and I turned around and stepped on his toe...does his toe hurt any less simply bc he did it first? Heck NO!! They both hurt!!

Melozia posted 3/2/2016 12:03 PM

I suppose I should introduce myself. Though, truthfully, I am still having a hard time believing that I'm even a member of this thread. Shock....that's the word.

I know I should (and will) post my story. But I can't seem to focus on it long enough for it to make any sense. I am wondering, though, is there a MH version of the 180?

My counselor says it's ok that I am so detached, that maybe it's a good thing I'm not running about crying my eyes out. That some time and a reprieve from the intense emotions of the last 4+ months is good for me.

But I feel that I want to, perhaps, consider a 180-type approach to dealing with BH's A. I'm not sure all the rules can apply to my situation. Is it ok to pick the ones that do and practice those, or do I keep working through the rebuilding exercises in How to Help...?

Thoughts/ experiences are appreciated. I am lost. So lost. My shit storm just turned into a shit tsunami.

tired girl posted 3/4/2016 09:27 AM

HI Melozia,

I would say at this point that you need to detach as much as possible since he is not stopping his affair.

You really need to focus on yourself and what you need to do to get healthy. Fix you.

If he stops his affair, you can re evaluate at that point if he is a safe person to get involved with. Is he remorseful? Is he willing to do IC and figure out why he cheated? He needs to do all the work that you are doing as well. If he doesn't, then he is not a safe partner for you.

Being in a madhatter relationship is hard. And it takes both people working equally hard on being safe partners for it to work.

AngelFlower posted 3/4/2016 09:34 AM

I second Tired Girl. It is NOT ok for him to continue. Wrong is wrong is wrong. Detaching is your best bet in my opinion. Also, perhaps revealing the A to anyone and everyone involved...her parents, spouse, siblings, etc. Anyone you can find who knows her. Dr. Harley has some good example letters. Also, reveal it to your spouse's parents, siblings, friends, etc. Revealing to both employers might work, especially if they work in the same place. Once As are in the light, they can be seen for the cockroaches they are.

[This message edited by AngelFlower at 10:23 AM, March 4th (Friday)]

LosferWords posted 3/4/2016 09:50 AM

I agree with TG as well. The only thing that is really within your realm of control is you. For reconciliation to happen, both spouses need to work on individual healing, and also come together to work as a couple. If you think about it, though, you really can't go wrong on working on healing yourself. There is nothing to lose there, and you will only become stronger and healthier. Personal healing has to happen no matter what.

Best of luck to you, Melozia. Keep us updated on how things go.

Melozia posted 3/4/2016 10:26 AM

Thanks, everyone, for the support and advice. I can still hardly believe this is happening....mostly because BH's behaviour is SO out of character. I know he's hurting, but two wrongs don't make a right.He vacillates between acknowledging the A and denying it; denial, blame shifting, self-pity, gas lighting....he's doing it all.

A quick update: after my original post, I told BH that, if he continued his A, he couldn't continue to live in our home. I gave him until noon to go full NC with AP and if he chose not to do that, then he was choosing to leave. I reminded him that this is not what I wanted and that I loved him and wanted him to stay.

Anyway, noon came and went. He seemed not to believe this was actually happening....so I packed all his bags with EVERYTHING he'd need and put them at the front door. This entire time, he was either napping, or working in the office, ignoring the suitcases in the bedroom! Total denial. When he saw his bags, he sounded shocked and asked me, "Uhm, am I leaving for a few days, or for good?". I told him that that was up to him, as this was his choice, not mine. That I packed all he'd need whether he was gone for a week or forever. He tried multiple stalling tactics...all of which I dismissed. He finally left.

Since then he's been back to the house twice to work and both times lingering as if he expects some sort of conversation...which I avoid like the plague. He's texted me multiple times with classic overshare of info I never asked and don't give a crap about (he did confirm he's been at his parent's house while they are away in Mexico for a few weeks). I haven't responded to a single text. Not being passive-aggressive, they just don't require a response.

At this point I am using the 180 to detach myself from his drama and to focus on myself and to work on why I engaged in my A so I can ensure it never happens again...regardless of who my partner is.

I won't lie. I am incredibly sad. Heartbroken. We have both acknowledged that we still love each other and even have some hope for repair of this relationship. But he's not ready yet. And I can't wait for him to join me in healing and moving forward. I want him to come back home, but I have NO control over what he does. I am seeing and hearing from others in our life of the damage BH is doing to their relationships, and I hate that his 2x4 is gonna hurt. But this is the law of natural consequences (for both of us) playing out.

[This message edited by Melozia at 10:32 AM, March 4th (Friday)]

LosferWords posted 3/4/2016 10:31 AM

I think you did the right thing, making your stand about NC, Melozia. Sending strength.

AngelFlower posted 3/4/2016 10:33 AM

I think it is the right thing too. Hope the both of you find peace soon.

Melozia posted 3/4/2016 10:52 AM

I'm not sure I can commit to the idea of exposing them/him. I am not saint. I had an A, also. That was horrendously wrong and I would have to disclose this in any exposure letter I sent, no? Otherwise, I look like a hypocrite, and people are only getting a partial truth.

Melozia posted 3/6/2016 06:13 AM

Gaaaahhh I feel like such an idiot. Probably the worst thing I could have done....completely NOT 180 approved....but I miss my BH/WH so much. I texted him that I loved him and miss him and want him to come home. Don't get me wrong, he'd have to NC OW to do so.

It was a weak moment. I haven't been sleeping and I'm up thinking about him. Just bad, I know. Part of me doesn't even want a response. I'm not comfortable being this vulnerable, but I know it's ok for me to be.

Ugh.

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