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MistersMommy posted 1/6/2015 10:17 AM

Tired girl

We start counseling next week. I know why I did. He was in Germany for 3 yrs without me and we had a phone call only relationsgip minus 30 days a yr. His phone calls were spars and even nil at times. He would disappear out "with the boys" all weekend and our joint bank account would be drained at the end of it. Some stories of "I made out with this girl one time" are slowly coming out now, not that any of it makes my A any better.

I'm sorry, maybe it makes me a terrible person and maybe the IC/MC can help set me straight but I almost feel justified. Lord help me but I was so alone and so miserable and he was partying it up and sight seeing in the red light district of the world and I was living with his parents miserable searching for someone who gave a shit about me and found mild solice in 2 ex bfs.

He found comfort in the arms of another woman while I was home raising our son and wondering why he didn't come home on lunch or for an hr after work. Our marriage was going well from what I thought...

See my head is in such a bad place that I can't even feel guilty (for lack of a better term) for what I did after finding out about his 8 month full on relationship with this woman 15yrs his elder.

rachelc posted 1/6/2015 10:27 AM

I'm sorry, maybe it makes me a terrible person and maybe the IC/MC can help set me straight but I almost feel justified. Lord help me but I was so alone and so miserable and he was partying it up and sight seeing in the red light district of the world and I was living with his parents miserable searching for someone who gave a shit about me and found mild solice in 2 ex bfs.

almost justified? This is justification....
At any rate - you have to live according to YOUR values, not react to someone else's actions. The He did it so I get to do it is just that.
Decide what kind of person you want to be and be it. It will take IC and looking at painful things. But really, if we don't have our integrity what do we have?

MistersMommy posted 1/9/2015 11:25 AM

rachelc
You are absolutly right. I was justifying. I find myself doing that more an more lately. His A is so fresh and new while mine was so many years ago that when he brings it up, I feel angry. He always brings it up while I am loosing my mind about his OW.

Justification and not acknowledging eachothers pain is not going to solve anyones problems or help either of us heal.

rachelc posted 1/9/2015 15:21 PM

MistersMommy - although it's hard, can you guys make a game plan of not discussing the other's affair while you're focused on one affair? It's hard. But doable...

tired girl posted 1/10/2015 08:52 AM

Here is the thing Misters mommy, there is no justification for any affair, ever. If you were miserable while he was away it was your responsibility to talk to him and tell him. If there was no resolution to be had, then there is D, you don't have an affair to fix a problem in a M. What you did and what he did was bring a bomb into a M to try to fix yourselves. Now you need to each figure out why you chose that. And yes, stop justifying why you did it.

You each need to promise the other that when he is talking about his pain, you don't bring up what he did and vice versa. You can talk about your pain, but at a different point in time. Be present for each other, you each have pain and you need to be there for each other or your M will never work.

My H and I are madhatters and we don't compare affairs or throw it up in each others faces when one is talking about their pain. It was not easy in the beginning at all. It is much easier now. This is doable, but you each have to be willing to be there for each other. And you each have to stop justifying your affairs.

Big hugs, I know how hard it is in the beginning.

[This message edited by tired girl at 8:52 AM, January 10th (Saturday)]

silverhopes posted 1/15/2015 16:22 PM

Hi everyone,

Just checking in. I finally came to the conclusion that I could not compete mentally anymore with Mr. Silver's exes and how great his sexual experiences with them were, etc (already came to the conclusion a long while ago that I couldn't compete with any OWs either, but for some reason the sexual comparisons with his exes were harder for me to get over). I told him earlier today, also acknowledged that he does love me a great deal as the mother to his son and as his wife. He interrupted and at first got upset, thinking I was bringing up the same conversation, the same thing he'd said "one time", again and again; I said that it was several conversations that I was talking about, several times when he'd made comparisons. He tried to insist that what he'd said wasn't true and that he has a tendency to put his foot in his mouth. I think he's really trying. I encouraged him to move on and fall in love with someone else, that if he feels a spark with another woman he should go with her (maybe someone in program, which he's going to start soon). He said that there is no moving on because he loves me.

* I should add, my plan (which I think isn't healthy or sound because it's coming from a place of fear and anxiety) would be that he falls in love with someone else, cheats for a while as he decides what he wants, moves out and moves in with her, visits our son over here sometimes while I raise our son alone, and moves on with his life. I remain alone until our son is 18 (which is 14 years from now), and then maybe I move on. Or maybe I stay alone forever. But this way, if he has someone to go to, then it will be amicable and gentle when we part ways.

It feels nice to let go of the outcome. It is very sweet that he wants to be here. I do believe that he loves me. I hope I love him enough. Don't know how to get past the comparisons though. Maybe he doesn't believe them now, or maybe he does but he just doesn't think about his exes anymore. But I'm pretty sure he meant them when he said them. My self-confidence on that front is shredded - and it's really not his issue anymore. It's been years. I'm responsible for my healing from here on out. I've always been, but it's time I stopped looking to him to fix me.

In good news, Mr. Silver is going to make attempt #2 at quitting pot smoking. His birthday is next week, and he is quitting on February 1st. He asked me to look up MA or AA meetings for him, and he wants me to go with him to them. We've found one to go to on February 2nd. That's a huge step forward for him. And it seems this time like he's doing it for himself. Among other reasons, because he wants to have more money, and he wants me to have more money too. But I'd let go of the outcome there a few months ago, and so his seriousness to do this is his own.

I think he's growing.

I, on the other hand, started taking antidepressants again in September, after 5 years off them. They're helping me focus more, and I'm able to feel less "stuck" in grief and anxiety. I still feel them acutely, but I can get up and get stuff done instead of laying in bed all day. Last week I finally started on the basement. I am getting rid of things. I am confronting my hoarding. It's long, but making sure to go down there everyday, no matter how long I go for, is helping. Going to go down again in a few minutes… I should say, though, that the voices have increased. I'm having trouble on that front. Spending more and more time with them and trying to do what they say. Not wanting to be around people. I think there's something dirty and wrong with me. Don't want to expose others to that.

I have a lot more work to do. I got too involved in friend issues (with a trio in particular, I think I've written about them before), and I need to strengthen my boundaries. I need to reevaluate boundaries everywhere, actually. I'm processing some personal tendencies and traits (I tell friends and family I love them a lot and I give them lots of compliments, and I'm feeling like I shouldn't be, that it's inappropriate - I should not be so open with people, nor so close), sexual assault history, comments people made after them, and how I've worked that history into my boundaries right now. There are times I feel my boundaries are inappropriate when they might not be, and times where I feel good about my boundaries but I'm really not practicing good boundaries at all. I'm struggling and need help. Right now, I think isolating would be a very good idea, and thinking about what's appropriate to share and not share (with family members, therapists, friends, staff at my son's school, etc). Stuff going on with my son too, we're getting some evaluations done soon for some speech/language, sensory, and behavioral stuff. So a lot going on right now, and I need to regain my bearings.

Thank you, SI. You've been a gift to me.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 4:29 PM, January 15th (Thursday)]

crackedvase posted 1/27/2015 12:32 PM

My WH hid his A with a cow for 3 months until I found out by calling the OW. We started MC the same time his A started because I felt like something was off. We had MC the day after D-day. During MC I told him I was willing to work towards R. When we got home he noticed I had removed all of his photos from our home and he became upset, saying I lied at MC. I saw at that time that he had no clue what I was going through and that I was unable to focus on our children. I told him this and that I had decided to take his truck, (which is mostly where the PA took place) pick up a guy and have a ONS in it. I had been considering revenge of some sort for 24 hours since I found out but had not made up my mind to. I followed through that night with a stranger I'd never met at a bar I've never been to. I had been 100% faithful before and since that night. The next morning my H hit rock bottom. We have been working on things since and everything is going fairly well for only being 4 months out.
My question is, Are my feeling toward my ONS appropriate? I don't feel any emotions towards it at all, no regret, maybe a little surprised at myself for being able to go through with it. I don't feel dirty or altered in any way. My MC said I am suppressing my feelings and that emotions will come in time but I don't view it any differently than going to the grocery store, it was something I needed to do for myself. I understand it was dangerous and am happy in hindsight that I came out ok, but I was not thinking of that the night of. Now, I do not mean to in anyway down play my action's consequences on my H. I do feel sympathy for his pain in processing what I did. I do question whether I made our situation worse or better now that he understands and we have mutual empathy. We have since sold said truck so it won't be a trigger for either of us. I would love some incite.

rachelc posted 1/27/2015 13:22 PM

My question is, Are my feeling toward my ONS appropriate? I don't feel any emotions towards it at all, no regret, maybe a little surprised at myself for being able to go through with it.

well, it depends on you values. What made you think that someone else's poor choices deserved some sort of pay back by you? What did you tell yourself to enable this action? Do you take your wedding vows seriously, even though he didn't?

dullache posted 1/27/2015 15:48 PM

I would submit that mutual empathy is NOT superior to the alternative.

I would also say my betrayal of my bride years ago made forgiveness of her A virtually automatic for me. Not that I "owed her one" but that I owed her my life.

crackedvase posted 1/27/2015 17:14 PM

well, it depends on you values. What made you think that someone else's poor choices deserved some sort of pay back by you? What did you tell yourself to enable this action? Do you take your wedding vows seriously, even though he didn't?

I will say that I have always taken my vows seriously. Even now, when I go through a wave of rage, I wouldn't do it again. Now that I've started processing and healing and I see how much I really hurt him, I would never do it again. I guess I feel like I had been walked on for too long. I was a workaholic turned SAHM. I was resentful of his free time and relationships with his coworkers. I was starved for attention from my H and relied on him for all of my emotional, mental and physical stimulation. Our relationship was very one sided as far as the amount of work and energy that was being put into it. I guess now that I'm thinking about it, I really did it to prove to both of us that I am still a desirable women that doesn't need him to survive. I have chosen to want him in my life but I don't need him. These were some deep rooted problems we were having before our As. At the time I told myself it was to teach him a lesson but I think it was I who needed the teaching. Even now when he has depressive moments, he tells me he is scared of me doing it again, that he is shocked at how easy it was for me to pick up a guy. He has become the man I needed him to be in the beginning. He puts me as a priority and helps out with the kids. I hope we come out of this stronger than before.

BrokenButTrying posted 1/27/2015 18:02 PM

I was starved for attention from my H and relied on him for all of my emotional, mental and physical stimulation.

Why? The healthy response to this situation it to take responsibility for yourself and your own feelings. Why did you think a ONS would make you feel better?

Our relationship was very one sided as far as the amount of work and energy that was being put into it. I guess now that I'm thinking about it, I really did it to prove to both of us that I am still a desirable women that doesn't need him to survive. I have chosen to want him in my life but I don't need him.

Ok, but why did you need the sexual attention of another man to make you believe this is true? Why didn't you know it to be true before?


These were some deep rooted problems we were having before our As.

So is this an acceptable justification for him having his A first? If not, then it isn't for you either.
I'm not saying you two didn't have marriage problems before any of the infidelity, but this statment comes across like you're blaming your A on your marriage problems. Do you feel your cheating was justified because your marriage was hard and then he cheated first?

I'm asking these questions to prompt you into digging a bit deeper into why your immediate response to infidelity in your marriage was to do the same. Both of you need to uncover your reasons for that sense of entitlement, get to the bottom of your whys.

rachelc posted 1/27/2015 18:06 PM

I guess I feel like I had been walked on for too long. I was a workaholic turned SAHM. I was resentful of his free time and relationships with his coworkers. I was starved for attention from my H and relied on him for all of my emotional, mental and physical stimulation. Our relationship was very one sided as far as the amount of work and energy that was being put into it. I guess now that I'm thinking about it, I really did it to prove to both of us that I am still a desirable women that doesn't need him to survive.

same questions as brokenbuttrying. These are all excuses, justifications, for doing what you did. None of them are good enough reasons to have an affair. You SAY you are sorry you did it but previously, you said you didn't regret it. Which is it?

crackedvase posted 1/27/2015 20:04 PM

Let me start by saying thank you for the comments and feedback. I have been contemplating on this all day.
I know there is never a justification for an A. I'm not saying I'm not guilty. I define regret as something you would have done differently if you had the chance. I don't regret my A. I really have no feelings towards it other than how it has affected my H. I love my H deeply and sympathize with his pain as if it were a loss of a loved one. Our marriage as it was is dead. Hopefully what we build from here will be as good if not better. My husband says he regrets his A. He says he is sickened when he thinks of it, all of it, not just how it has affected me and our family. He says he is disgusted with himself and his actions. He says he felt stuck and didn't know how to get out of it. My issue is I don't feel that way and I'm not sure why.

Ok, but why did you need the sexual attention of another man to make you believe this is true? Why didn't you know it to be true before?

These were things my MC was working with me on before the A came to light. I didn't come to the realization that I am a worthwhile human being until probably a month ago. My A didn't give me any instant gratification, sexually or emotionally. IT didn't satisfy any resentful feeling I had towards my H. Talking about it today with SI is how I came to the consideration that my own internal struggle with self worth may have been my why and I used revenge and hurt as a justification towards my actions. I still feel as if I have as much emotion towards it as a math problem not a devastation to my marriage.

silverhopes posted 1/28/2015 00:17 AM

It's good to see everyone here, doing the work. Stay strong.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 12:26 AM, January 28th (Wednesday)]

She-Ra posted 1/28/2015 14:32 PM

Hi all!

It's been a long time coming for me to finally make a post on the Madhatter thread.

I've been observing various MHs on the board and there is a huge difference between two.

I am a WW turned BW but relate as a WW only. I can't seem to feel the pain as a BW. The mind movies are horrendous though. I have no idea if they will ever escape my mind. I also didn't realize that I would have been so hungry for the details. I was TTd for 2/3 weeks and it was awful. Finally when the full truth came out, it was a relief and there are still some nagging pieces of details that I would want to know but at the same time, I just don't feel like asking.

I see other BS turned WS and they still stick to relating as a BS. That is almost frightening because the justifications and lack of remorse is something that needs to be dug into. NO ONE just wakes up one day and decides to have a ONS. It takes quite a few series of decisions to reach that point. Loose boundaries, low self esteem, FOO issues.. the list goes ON! So to simplify it by saying, well he/she cheated first so I get to fuck someone too, is extremely short-sighted. I'm not really addressing any post in particular because I have seen it on the 'Revenge A' posts and various posts here.

It's an ugly journey here on SI. I'm still trying to sink my teeth into the root of all my problems. But I most certainly didn't just wake up one, take home a guy and have a PA. That was my first A and I acted like it was as simple as that. All of a sudden. Oops why did I do that???? Honey please. I needed 2x4s a lot sooner than I did.

I urge anyone who has found them as a WS, please do the work. It's awful and difficult but rewarding.

Brass Tacks posted 2/8/2015 01:20 AM

This week has been just over the top. Help! My BH S had his A about 8 years ago. Knew nothing about SI and we did not go to counseling. He ended it. Went NC, I think and we rugswept everything though we had no conscious knowledge of it.

I did bring it up now and then during arguments from a resentment standpoint so obviously it was buried alive inside me. Fast forward to 2012 I start an EA with my first love. It is LD for weeks then went PA when I traveled to see him. So A lasted on and off for over 2 years.

BS has refused MC. He went to IC for a while but now refuses to provide proof he actually attended IC I need IC but my AP was a counselor so I have gigantic trust issues. I go to bible study and pray about it and counsel with a lady but suspect I need a professional. I need to get past my trust hurdle.

Everything went destruckto first of sept. BS tells me thinking of it makes him feel sick. I don't recall feeling like that but I still feel angry about it. He swears it was EA but he spent the night in her house. So.... hmmm...he also cheated on his first wife, not with me but he has a track record for cheating. Uggg!
So now, my husband is resentful, I am ashamed and guilt ridden as well as all the old rugswept resentment from his A has come to the surface. Si has taught me better how to talk with him and I understand my hunger to know details of his A. I never even knew her name!

This week we calmly took time to discuss everything but it has been so hard. All the old coping skills and ways to discuss things will not work. The dynamics of our relationship are all off kilter. We can not sleep. This is cray cray crap! Just reading this makes me just mortified.

He has anxiety issues and rarely leaves the house. If I
Want a socialife like church or a play I have to go alone. Today I went out without my ring and told him I do not feel married anymore. I was not being mad. I was being honest.
I just went to get a manicure but I know it hurt him. We are BOTH hurting. I just do not know how to get through this. I can not sit for days on end in the house. I am disabeled and can only rarely get out anyway.
The problem is I do not need to isolate. He has started going to grocery etc. As I can not most days. He is even walking for excercise. I tell him I am proud of him . I am he tells me he doubts I love him but I love him very, very much. Just so hurt and afraid.

This conttributed to my seeking validation with AP. I was so lonely. I was wrong to do so. I admit it yet I see and feel the weakness and resentment building again.I am NC with AP. He disgusts me now and am praying for indifference.

But, things simply must improve.


want a socaial life

MistersMommy posted 2/26/2015 15:51 PM

I am an admin to a MH support group on FB that just started. Being a MH in my life helps but I'm not sure how to start helping everyone in this healing process. I'm so new to it myself (WW 7 yrs ago and BW 3 months ago) that I could use any assistance possible. Any suggestions? Any topics I should try to help run through? Maybe anyone that wants to join me?

I didn't start the page I just Admin it as a sister page for reconciliation that also has a BS and a WS page.

BSandWS posted 3/7/2015 16:53 PM

Looks like I found my thread. I need to pour out my story. It has been recycling around in my head for five months.

My wife and I have been married for 20 years. We have an eight year old girl, our only child. We Arne a great little family. We are both mid forties.

My errors go first. I have been obsessed with porn my whole life. Lots of playboy as a kid. That escalated to Internet porn. At the same time, I was prudish and jealous about other peoples sexuality, especially girlfriends. I was the same way with my wife. Very jealous and judgmental. We moved in together before marriage. We were in the big city and I started sneaking off to porn shops and live girl shows. Really chickenshit stuff. I went to a place that turned out to have no window between the man and woman, and I was told I could reach through and touch if I wanted. And I did.

I confessed this to my bs, girlfriend at the time, months later. Awful for her and me, and we just buried it. I kept at therapy but could not (did not stop). I could hold on with white knuckles for some time but it kept escalating gradually over the years. I tried three therapists in that time, confessing and trying to stop, but I never did.

Flash forward to this fall. I get home after a late night at work. My wife finds a text on my phone the next morning from 2:30 am. It if from a prostitute texting me back saying she could meet up now if I was still up.

My wife, bless her, does not come right upstairs and kill me on the spot. She exercises and then confronts me. She says she thinks I have been seeing a prostitute and, after an adrenaline rush of total panic, I say she is right.

Then, because this is how we are, we get ready for work and school and head out. Acting like all is normal.

That night at dinner, I acknowledge it all. 20 contacts or so, including several men. All one time no strings encounters. All essentially anonymous, and almost always full intercourse. What a nightmare to admit. To have done! She says she understands because she has made mistakes too.

Like what? I say.

She says that nine years ago, she had an affair with a colleague. Trying to take a page from her play book, I tell her I need a minute, I walk out onto the street, breath, go back in and say, I love you, it's ok.i say that through the feeling of my head exploding.

She gives me what I believe are full details. Two or three physical encounters before one time having sex. Just once. Months before that of a growing emotional relationship, during a very difficult time for us with infertility. Occasional contact since because they are colleagues. Only professional contact. She also explains that it was what motivated her to get us to marriage counseling in the past. After out daughter was born, she insisted we go because she wanted to make sure we both agreed not to have another child. She did not tell me she wanted to go to work on our marriage because of her affair, but that is part of what she was trying to do. Although she never admitted the affair in that course of counseling, we did improve our ability to communicate.

The hardest details for me, she was pregnant when it happened, it happened in our home, but not our bedroom, and she had him and his wife to dinner during the physical affair. Plus he is still around, working in the same field in the same city, and now divorced.

I have been in counseling for the past three years trying to stop my sexual addiction behavior (not sure exactly what to call it). I am continuing. The total revulsion this experience had given me had turned off a switch in my brain that found the sexual pursuits appealing. So far since D day, the thought just makes me feel sick in my stomach.

She is starting therapy next week. I am very happy about that.

She has not been interested in going back to counseling together, yet.

There it is, in all it's glory. What a nightmare. Like I said, I feel ripped in half. I am not even sure this makes sense.

I have days when I feel such relief to have my secret out and to not have that urge overwhelm and control me. And I have lots of time when I just obsess over the OM in my home penetrating my pregnant wife.

Nightmare and blessing.

I hope we stay together.

BSandWS posted 3/9/2015 07:45 AM

I hope someone will reply. I feel really lost.

She-Ra posted 3/9/2015 13:13 PM

Hi BS&WS:

Welcome to SI, glad you found us here. Good for you to work on your porn/sex addiction for the past 3 years. You may want to post in the wayward side to talk to the other guys about that sort of thing.

All I can say, try not to let your wife's affair interfere with your own healing as a wayward. That's great she is starting counselling too.

I find the mind movies of my H's A is the worst part of the whole thing. I can't get over the whole gross scene that my brain has created. Sounds like that's the same problem you are having.

I think this is one of those things that will eventually get easier with time. Who knows, it's been 6 months for me and I still see the same porno type scene in my head replaying... and replaying.. until I start thinking about something else.

I wouldn't worry so much about MC yet until your wife gets some IC under her belt. She needs to work on herself and dig into her issues first. Although it happened 9 years ago, it seems she tried to shelf it and now finally revealed, she may be open to healing her own demons.

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