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Madhatters Only Thread

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Ascendant posted 5/17/2014 21:16 PM

I was going to say what Losfer did, sort of. If I'm speaking in general (where it's necessary and/or appropriate), in the Menz thread for example, I'll use WW as a catch all. If I'm speaking specifically to my situation, I just say 'my wife'. I'm not a huge fan of labels, but I understand the need for shorthand in forums such as these.

Also, I came to find SI in my role as a BH. My selfish behavior happened earlier in our marriage...doesn't make it better or worse, just that in terms of this site and how I use it, I 'wear that hat (the BS)' more often than not.

[This message edited by Ascendant at 9:17 PM, May 17th (Saturday)]

tired girl posted 5/17/2014 21:22 PM

I agree with what Ascendant is saying here. There are many times I will refer to HL as H, I think it is more when I am speaking to a new member that I will refer to him as my BH.

silverhopes posted 5/17/2014 23:44 PM

Same as everyone else, I just call him my H, my husband, or Mr. Silver… It just feels right, but it's really whatever feels right to you…

Welcome (((BrokenButTrying))). I'm sorry you know the pain of both sides. We're here to support you. It sounds like addressing your BW side has been a struggle, especially with your H's lack of remorse. You're doing awesome work, don't give up!

Something happened today. Recently H has been saying he needs to go to the store, and then going and remaining gone for longer than it takes. Plus him even volunteering to go to the big store, making a special trip out for it, seemed unusual. We got iPhones a month ago, and it just occurred to me last night that this means I can use "find my iPhone". He just so happened to decide to "go to the store" today as well. I tracked him. Not surprised where he went. Not sure if there's another girl or not, but it seems he's smoking marijuana again - and hiding it from me. Lying. He went to the spot he used to buy from, or near there. Stayed for a long while. Then stopped at the big store on the way home. He is a lying liar liar with pants on fire! No wonder. Short tempered again, uninterested in physical intimacy again.

Well, this is who he is. Guess that's what this means, and that's all. Not taking it personally. Could this be detachment? I think this started on April 20th - no surprise. Said he'd be going to the store and was gone for several hours. Claimed he'd taken a long walk all over. I wondered if he'd relapsed, or if he was out with a girl. I confirmed one of those at least now. Trust your instincts!

He graduates next week, and then we go to Disneyland and see his sister, and visit his mother's grave. Rough time for him, I get it. Excuse to lie to me? No, no I don't think so. But that's part of who he is. ETA: But maybe he'll change. He's acting like Sir Lies-a-Lot right now, but maybe he'll strive for being King Authentic someday. I don't think I should make judgements about whether or not he'll change, even though I'm hurt. I think saying "this is who he is" was too harsh. This is his journey, he's going to grow at his own pace. I need to focus on what I'm doing instead and be a responsible good person and not become an ugly person ruled by negative feelings.

Still very depressed, but it really doesn't depend on him anymore. More like knowing he won't be able to support me struggling to get well… But he's not a cause of my depression. No one should have that much power. Just going to focus on that right now until I get well again.

(((hugs to all the madhatters)))

[This message edited by silverhopes at 12:53 AM, May 18th (Sunday)]

BrokenButTrying posted 5/18/2014 02:42 AM

Thanks everyone! I came to this site as a WW and that's essentially what I identify as. So he will be 'husband' here and BH everywhere else.

It took the mods on here giving me MH status to allow myself permission to feel those feelings from years ago. I have to process and heal, husband's remorse at this point makes little difference. I know I'll be alright whether he's supportive or not.
I'm still struggling with feeling selfish about this, husband is hurting because of me so that should be my focus and my priority. I have to keep reminding myself that I can't fix his shit for him, the besr way I can help him right now is to heal myself.

Obviously, none of my healing from that interferes with my remorse about my own A. Husband is the father of my children, I want him to be happy and healed no matter what the outcome of our M. So if I can support him then I will, just no longer to the point of sacrificing myself or ignoring my own feelings.

BrokenButTrying posted 5/18/2014 02:51 AM

Hi SH,

Thanks for the support :)

I'm so sorry about your discovery. I've been through similar with my husband years ago, secrecy surrounding drug use is awful. I think your attitude towards it is a very healthy one. Focus on you and what you need to do.

Are you going to speak to him about it? I would imagine that having him lie to you about where he's going will be very difficult now you know the truth, no matter how detached you might feel.


Hisbunnyonly posted 5/18/2014 03:44 AM

I just want to scream right now! I randomly decided to download an app on his phone that he hasn't had in months (I remember when and why he deleted it) and when I log into the app I find sexual convoys with a woman from august..... ok that wouldn't have bothered me TOO bad as I can clearly see the convo did not continue but I am an extremely self conscious person... something I've been working on in IC. and in reading this convo with this woman he becomes very graphic in explaining to her how he wants her more than me (specific body parts of hers) and then sent her pictures of me and him being intimate together...... telling her that he wishes it was her and not me and how she would look better in the uniform (one of the pics was inhisnpolice uniform that I took for him).
He of course now says he didnt mean any of it.... but how do I get by this and believe him on not to mention not let it further ruin my self worth.... I guess I just dont get that part... when I had my A I truthfully did not talk bad about H to my AP. Never said I wanted him more or anything....we actually talked alot about how great of a person my H was. I was the horrible person amd I knew it even then. So I guess the concept of talking trash about your B.S. just doesnt click with me. Can anyone please help me out?

BrokenButTrying posted 5/18/2014 12:29 PM


Oh that is fantastically shit! I'm so, so sorry.
Not only a very obvious display of wayward behaviour, a return of old unhealthy coping mechanism and lies of omission but a complete violation of your privacy. He showed her pictures of you??! What the actual fuck?? I'm furious for you!!!

How are you doing at the moment? I have no advice, I've never had to deal with anything like that. Hopefully someone will be along with some words of wisdom very soon.

Hope you're ok, sending lots of strength.

[This message edited by BrokenButTrying at 12:30 PM, May 18th (Sunday)]

Hisbunnyonly posted 5/18/2014 16:55 PM

He showed her pictures of you??! What the actual fuck?? I'm furious for you!!!

My thoughts exactly. I told him not only did he violate my privacy and my trust but he put me in danger....what if this woman was psycho and decided she wanted to stalk me or kill me....here I am out in town with my 3 year old and I've got some psycho bitch stalking me and knows what I look like and I'm clueless. Yes I watch too many lifetime movies lol but this shit happens.

Im tired today. Didnt get any sleep last night. And had to take care of the three year old. He offered. But it would be my luck that he got no sleep and then went to work tonight and got in a wreck and died or killed someone from lack of sleep (he works midnights) and im like i told him we cant fix our marriage if hes deas or in jail.

Hisbunnyonly posted 5/19/2014 12:46 PM

When asked why he sent her pictures of me his response was that she had expressed an interest in females and he knew it was the closest he would get to a threesome. Well thanks jackass.....you showed some girl pictures of me to get off on without my knowing and permission. You for all intensive purposes allowed someone to cyber rape me.... OH MY FUCKING GOD! Ugh....sorry guys I've got alot of anger over that part of the situation.

tired girl posted 5/19/2014 13:08 PM

Is he comprehending the depth of what you are feeling about this? If not, you two need to get into counseling like ASAP. Hugs, this is not going to be easy for you, I am so sorry he did this.

Hisbunnyonly posted 5/19/2014 13:34 PM

He claims he understands but idk. I was already in IC and made a call to her first thing this morning to see if she does MC as well ofn if she can recommend someone who does. Hoping she gets back to me sometime today.

silverhopes posted 5/19/2014 21:21 PM

So sorry, HBO. That is so beyond wrong that he did that. He says he understands? Is he remotely sorry for doing something so despicable? I'm sorry, that is just appalling. How are you doing today?

How are you doing today, BBT?

Are you going to speak to him about it? I would imagine that having him lie to you about where he's going will be very difficult now you know the truth, no matter how detached you might feel.

It is strangely easy for me not to say anything. He "taught" me what would happen if I confronted him about his lies when we had struggles over porn three years ago. If I question him, it won't go well for me, and it creates even more secrecy and exclusion on his part. Just knowing what he's really up to is enough for me. It sucks not being able to talk about it with him. It sucks realizing just how alone I really am when we're together. It shouldn't be that way.

Reconsidering being detached. I want to be a good wife. Still want to. Just not sure how when nothing I do for him really matters. I wish I knew how to put him at ease.

ETA: Three years ago not two, sorry

[This message edited by silverhopes at 9:28 PM, May 19th (Monday)]

BrokenButTrying posted 5/20/2014 06:03 AM

HBO my concern is that he didn't tell you about this. You discovered it yourself, so he's been keeping it from you for near enough a year.
I think that needs to be discussed too.

I'm ok thanks SH. Had such a nice weekend, whole day in the garden with the boys playing football and having water fights on Sunday. Then on Sunday we went to the beach which was lovely although I'm a bit pink now!
H is laying it on thick with the affection, being really flirty with me, lots of holding hands and hugging me.

I'm not going to lie, it's nice. We've talked a lot about triggers and about the mind movies he gets when we're intimate. Really productive conversations, he talked about what actually happens when he triggers and what he thinks about when he gets mind movies (he's never shared that with me before) he talked about his feelings and what he was worried about. I listened, validated and offered support in the form of advice I'd read here on SI.
He starts IC next week which is great and I think will help him a lot, he's been completely resistant to it in the past so it's a big step.

I'm still just watching and listening, making sure I look after myself.

I've read your profile SH but not familiar with the whole story. So if you spoke to him about it, he would just take it under ground and lie even more?
I can understand that with drug use. My H uses very, very occasionally too and I've been through so much stress with it in the past that I'm honestly past caring about it as long as it's not hidden from me.

Hisbunnyonly posted 5/20/2014 08:55 AM

Is he remotely sorry for doing something so despicable? I'm sorry, that is just appalling. How are you doing today?

he says he is. i suppose it's too soon for me to truly know if there is remorse for saying such things and sending the pictures, or if it's just i'm sorry that you found out i did those things....last night i had a breakdown b/c i changed clothes in the bathroom instead of in our bedroom as ususal, and he asked me why i wouldn't change clothes in front of him, i had to explain to him that i feel absolutly dirty. i feel violated. and in my words as if i was "cyber raped" and not only did he allow it but he participated in and encouraged it....i honestly think when i worded it that way it hit him a little more just how horrible this is. he said that at the time he was doing it he wasn't thinking and was just so angry at me for my A that he just did it, he didn't realize the true magnitude of those actions, and at the time didn't think it was as bad as what i had done and didn't think of what could have been or still could be the consequences. i mean the fact remains that some person ( it was only ever cyber so hell how do i even know if it was REALLY a woman) has pictures of me, and is doing and can do god knows what with them, and there is nothing i can do about it. this person, got their jolly's off of very personal pictures of me....and even told him in their convo how many times she "got off" to the pictures of me..... ughhh just typing it just gives me the heebie jeebies. i took his phone and deleted every personal picture he had of me. he now has face shots only. which would still infuriate me for him to send to any other women, BUT at least face shots couldn't potentially ruin my life.... sigh. i never thought that i would be in THIS situation.... i watch alot of dr phil...and have watched him warn people against pictures like that and the position they were putting themselves in.... i never thought that by sharing those intimate moments with my H that i would be putting myself in the same boat. I had a fear that he would betray me and have a RA but never in this capacity.

HBO my concern is that he didn't tell you about this. You discovered it yourself, so he's been keeping it from you for near enough a year.
I think that needs to be discussed too.

oh yes it's definitly being discussed as well. I found 3 months ago an app called KIK that he had been having sexual convo's with women on back in august (thank God none of those included pictures of me, that i saw, and i believe i saw all the convo's, they didn't appear to have missing pieces that had been deleted) at that time he had already deleted the other app (voxer) and i remember he deleted it in september b/c a guy he had arrested had gotten ahold of his info and wouldn't stop harassing him. so anyways, i knew that he had convo's back in august with 3 women b/c i found them, but i did not think at the time to redownload voxer and check it...it only hit me a couple of nights ago that i had not done that and thats when i found this stuff. he claims that he forgot about her and the convo b/c it only carried on for a few days and "meant nothing" to him, i just can't believe not remembering that you sent pictures of your wife out to someone....i can still to this day name every person in my life that i've sent pictures like that to, and you are telling me you can't remember doing it 9 months ago??

tired girl posted 5/20/2014 09:27 AM


H is laying it on thick with the affection, being really flirty with me, lots of holding hands and hugging me.

I'm not going to lie, it's nice.

How do you feel about the fact that your H became like this only when you pulled back and started detaching, not when you were wanting him and needing him?

BrokenButTrying posted 5/21/2014 03:55 AM

Yeah it sucks.

My IC identified that H and I have a 'pursuer/distncer' relationship dynamic. I am constantly chasing him, he is constantly running away.

She has kept reminding me that I need to stop chasing him. I initiate all conversation, all intimacy, all physical touch. I never leave him room to do it because I do it for him. If I stop chasing him, he'll have room to move towards me.

I've been making some pretty big plans the last few days that I'm quite excited about. My youngest starts nursery in January which will give me three full days a week to do voluntary work. Then when he starts school 18 months later I'm going back to school to do my social work degree. The UK is brilliant with this sort of stuff, I get all kinds of funding and help with living costs.

No matter what happens with H, the boys and I will be just fine. I am, for the first time in a long time, realising that I make myself happy. Sure, other people add to my happiness but ultimately, I am responsible for my own life and my own feelings. My sole purpose in life is not to be the person that worries about H, I can do anything I want!

BrokenButTrying posted 5/21/2014 03:58 AM

Plus, the boys and I are going on holiday next week down to the Isle of Wight to stay with my dad who lives there. We go every year and always have a brilliant time. My sister is coming with us too, I'm very close with her and she's the boys 'fun aunt'. So we're all really excited!

tired girl posted 5/21/2014 10:26 AM

I think that this is really good that you are being able to step back and see some of these things and starting to see some of the patterns that are present in your relationship. The next step is stopping them as they are happening. That is harder, lol. And I have found that it gets easier as you get healthier.

NoDoormat posted 5/28/2014 09:36 AM

I'm hoping to get some advice here in this thread. I broke my vows with my H 12.5 years ago, had an EA that became PA, then back to EA, which ended 10+ years ago. Today, my husband has been engaged in an EA for 2 months and three days and is unremorseful. I immediately ended my relationshit when discovered, so I am crushed by this.

I am doing 180 with my H and he is sleeping in another room. I haven't had contact with him since Monday night.

We are supposed to go to MC tomorrow, but H isn't sure he wants to do the CS work to hammer out the details around that because he is angry that I outed OW to her boyfriend and he ended their relationship. In the same conversation where he told me that, he learned that there was more to my infidelity than just EA. So I'm thinking we're going to have to go through that stuff tomorrow too.

If he is no longer willing to do the CS, is it even worth it to give him the full transparency and honesty? I feel genuinely remorseful and I'm not afraid to be honest, but how do I protect myself from the current abuse he's heaping on me simultaneously?

He only had his first IC session yesterday. It's gonna be such a long road for him, but I know I have to focus on my own needs. At this time, I believe I need to file, because I can't do R all by myself.

Also, I'm so sad, because we are scheduled to go on a second (really, first) honeymoon in 6 weeks. I want to go on the trip, even if we're not married. And I want to go together.

Please, any advice, or just ramblings would be ok too. I just want people to talk to.

tired girl posted 5/28/2014 09:50 AM

So you never told him that your A went PA?

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