SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi all

Firstly thank you to all of you who replied to my boundaries and respect thread previous. Hope you are all ok.

So an update

This weekend has been awful. We had a massive fall out after me bringing up things and something i saw on his phone. He was texting her seperate to the group chat again.

We are trying to work on things but in the back of my mind I just have this feeling all the time.

He's saying he's fed up of my trust issues and that I have to trust him. He thinks I see every female friend as a threat or "after him". This is BS. I'm not like that at all. I know this is a common thing that gets said. But I really am not possessive or jealous. I just have boundaries to be respected!

He thinks my insecurity has got worse during peri menopause. It has with other issues, I've been really struggling with alsorts, I'm also autistic so hormones and autism clash, but the insecurity issues stems from his behaviour, trust stuff past and recent. He knows this so how can he blame it on me. It really makes me angry when he says this. I've been going through some tough times, I shouldnt have to be telling him all about boundaries and respect!!!

He's wanting to try and move past and work through things and understand that this colleague is not a threat she is just very bubbly and outgoing and that he can't unfriend her, and I need to understand that she just is a friend.

He says the group chat can get a bit much but he's been staying out of certain stuff in there.

However he has been honest and also told me that this female colleague has been telling him and other colleagues (other married men too) about her own husband not giving her attention. This is wrong in my eyes. Apparently her husband is not giving her attention and she's not happy. This isn't my husband business nor to give an opinion on??

I told him she shouldnt be doing this with him and other married men . Am I wrong? He said she's just wanting a man's opinion on how her husband is.

I said she shouldn't be takling to other married men about her spouse issues. It's how EA start!! Not to mention that this female is very attention seeking type, very flirty and very outgoing. She's not like me at all. This is why I don't like the situation. Some women throw themselves at men. I get this vibe off her from what I've seen in that chat and the attention seeking. She clearly is overstepping in my eyes. And I've said I don't like it. What's wrong with that?? He dosent seem to get it.

He's given me his pin for his phone. Which is good but I'm not going to go looking unless I had to.

I just feel detached and emotional. We are trying to work on things but I don't think things are going to change with him. He dosent seem to understand and he also has been gaslighting me a little aswell. I told him this.

A lot of the talk seemed to be all about him "not been allowed female friends" and if there "is one I don't like it turns into a trust thing". It isn't that at all. He dosent see it.

It's boundaries again. That's all it is. Why can't he understand what I'm saying????!!

I've told him I'm considering separating and if things don't change definitely a separation. I really don't want to do this. I just wish he would get it and stop seeing me as being insecure.

I've felt like pulling my hair out.

Would appreciate some input and hugs xxxx

[This message edited by Bluefairy at 6:25 PM, Monday, March 17th]

He likes female attention.

Is it dangerous? Very much so.

Should he withstand temptation? Yes he should. Will he withstand temptation? Better to not find out. You are absolutely correct with your boundaries. Your boundaries are the price he pays for you, and your marriage. He’s not single anymore.

I’m not a fan of married people having friends of the opposite sex. But, maybe this is just a generational thing.

I think separating in your situation is a bad idea. Unless you’re ready to make it permanent. Red flags here, I’m afraid. You need to work through this, together.

Make him read "Not Just Friends."

Trust is built by his actions on building trust over time.

He isn't building trust, he's doing the opposite.

Him blaming you is Cheater 101. It's probably Chapter 1 or 2 of our mythical Cheater's Handbook.

If HR saw the content of what they're texting, would there be repercussions?

He can unfriend her. It just takes a couple of taps. He doesn't want to unfriend her. Yes, what she's telling him is inappropriate. I'm the book Not Just Friends by Dr Shirley Glass, one chapter covers boundaries. The analogy she uses is Windows and walls. There should be Windows in the M so you have transparency and know each other intimately. With people outside the M, you have walls because they don't need to see into your relationship and the walls protect the relationship.

I’m so sorry you are still facing these issues. Just to break it down:

He’s still in contact with the OW

He says you as the BS (betrayed spouse) have to trust him when he’s not proven he’s trustworthy

He’s looking for his ego boost via validation that other women want to have some type of relationship with him (typical emotional affair crap)

He doesn’t respect your feelings

He doesn’t want to do anything other than what he wants to do and expects you to go along with it

He actually doesn’t see anything wrong with emotional affairs.

My suggestion is that you STOP trying to explain, reason, discuss etc this with him. He doesn’t want to do anything BUT what he wants to do. His actions have shown you that.

I was in your shoes in the late 90s (before texts etc) with my H’s 4 year EA that he refused to admit to. He refused to end it. He refused to stop interacting with this woman and saw her in person 4 nights a week in a PhD program.

What I learned was:

1. People don’t change unless THEY want to.

2. Knowing that I handled his second midlife crisis affair very differently. There was no rug sweeping and no negotiations.

3. Read up on the 180 and take measures to protect yourself. Stop putting him & the marriage first and put yourself first.

Lastly you need to start emotionally detaching. Not saying be mean or cruel but don’t put him first. If you see he’s not respecting your feelings then you need to stop respecting his. If he’s still texting other women (innocent or not it’s wrong and he knows it) then you know HIS needs come first, not yours.

If you are suddenly not catering to him and he goes running to someone else, then he was just looking for an excuse or reason to cheat. Sex or no sex, he is cheating. He just doesn’t want to stop. That adds more pain and stress to you and the marriage.

He may be addicted to the ego boost he gets from these women. But whatever it is, it could be somewhat of a challenge to get this to stop.

And you should not have to be the marriage police. You don’t have to be patrolling his phone or emails etc to find out what he’s doing behind your back.

I hope this helps you.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 10:50 AM, Tuesday, March 18th]

Thank you so much for the replies you are all so correct

The1stwife thank you for the indepth reply broken down, it stands out hugely what is going on and it is absolutely spot on.

It's ridiculous when I read it back to myself what he's doing and saying and whats going on.

My mum and best friend are supporting me hugely at the moment and she said similar regarding detaching emotionally if I can. And take the advice given here. It's the only thing I can do right now unless I end it totally.

I just don't think things are going to change

Sadly you need to prepare and protect yourself if things don’t change.

And understand the damage he is doing to the marriage. Because one day you may just get tired if his shenanigans and crap and decide to leave him.

And all of his begging and pleading will fall on deaf ears because you no longer love him enough to remain married to a jerk who continues to disrespect you, cheat on to, etc.

The cheaters stupidly believe they control the situation. They often don’t believe their spouse/partner will walk away from them. They never expect to be kicked to the curb so to speak.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 10:55 AM, Tuesday, March 18th]

Have you two - as a couple - read Not Just Friends? Know you already ordered it.

Bigger- I ordered it last week and had it delivered to my mums, I have been reading it. Sadly that kind of thing won't work with him it will be like pulling teeth saying "let's look at this together " etc he will just see it as me getting at him. But I'm getting ideas and information from it.

It is a very good book, I'm just keeping it at my mums to look at (I'm there often)

Remember: boundaries are for you.

I wouldn't trust my W if she reacted to me the way your H is reacting to your concern. I would be very concerned if my W insisted on maintaining a relationship with a good-looking man who was saying his W wasn't giving him enough attention.

But it would be up to me to act to defend my boundaries if that were happening, and I think it's up to you to act.

Have you considered the 'simplified 180'? it's the last in the list of bulls-eyed threads in this forum, half a page or so below this thread. I urge you to consider implementing it or part of it.

Would he be willing to go to MC with you?

I see this more as a communications problem than full-scale emotional infidelity. Although unhandled it definitely will go that way...

I see this as much more than a communication issue.

He’s resentful of your feelings because HE chose to cheat and now doesn’t want to face the consequences.

I would hope a professional counselor could help you.

A big problem with EA’s is that those involved don’t necessarily see it as an affair. He isn’t cheating – at least not in his mind.
I’m guessing that the WH thinks this is his wife trying to control him, while not recognizing that the coworker is flirting or trying to lead him on.
Add to that the comment that the wife isn’t even going to try to ask him to read NJF...

Sisoon- thank you that thread is really helpful
The1stwife- thank you I agree it's much more

Bigger - yes this is what it is 100%

But regarding njf - As I've said the book will not work with him, it's not about me not even trying, I know my husband and it will just cause an argument even trying to get him to look at it. It wont work for everyone.

[This message edited by Bluefairy at 11:16 PM, Tuesday, March 18th]

I was in your shoes after my H’s first 4 year EA. That’s right 4 long years.

And the OW pretended to be my friend too (not just his friend).

Nothing I said or did had any impact. He continued to lie and cheat with arrogance because in his mind, there was no affair. He did nothing wrong. I was the crazy, insanely jealous wife who was imagining things.

You get the picture. I allowed this to be completely rugswept once contact ended.

Without consequences, he continued his flirty behavior with women. Without consequences it made it easier to start his midlife crisis affair.

It is now at the point where you have to decide what YOU need to do. If he never changes — what do you think YOU need to do? Obviously you can divorce or separate or sweep this under the rug and reconcile.

However I would hope you can put your happiness first and not just settle. I hope you can get the marriage you want but if not, you can decide what your future will be — with him or without him.

You may have to accept him as is — if you can live with that.

1stWife is completely correct in that it’s now an issue of what you do and what you can accept.

EA’s are a bit like smoking. Complimenting a person of the opposite sex occasionally, or partaking in conversations that should be kept within a marriage, is like an occasional cigar or stealing a drag from a friends cigarette and is stupid, but relatively harmless. Something you can quit easily and something you realize with time is stupid and stop doing it.
If, however, you get used to going out with your friends for their smoke-break and think it’s OK to have "just one" every morning... soon you crave the second, the third... Soon it becomes something you need to deal with. Very few begin smoking with the intent of becoming a morning-cough, asthmatic two-packs-a-day smoker with yellow fingers and tar-stained teeth.

Your husband... in that group... he’s out with the smokers... and that woman is blowing smoke right in their faces.

I don’t want to make her the enemy per se. It sounds like she’s like this in the group. Maybe the workplace has a gender-lean, and maybe there is some chauvinistic or misogynistic culture at the place of work. Maybe it’s her method of fitting in. Or maybe she just has terrible boundaries.
She’s not the enemy – but she is a threat.

The issue as I see it is that he doesn’t see the problem and by your own admission you can’t communicate it to him. That doesn’t mean the problem is you – you can be doing everything right. The problem could be (and probably is) that communications is a three-factored process – speaking and LISTENING (where he might be failing) and finding common ground (where you both might be failing). I think he might be lacking in the listening, and in the search for common ground.

Communications about an issue with no mutual will to resolve it is an argument. Communications about an issue with a will to resolve it might be a debate, or a contract-negotiation, but the end-goal is that both leave with a clear picture of expectations and actions.

When negotiating, if you see you can’t get a result, you walk away from the table. Don’t really see you doing that about this issue.
I would suggest you do the following:

Tell your husband that this is bothering you, and what bothers you the most is that you cant make him understand how much this hurts you. You might be overreacting, but you worry about him not respecting you enough to take your concerns seriously. Ask that he come with you to counseling so you two can communicate better.
It’s not so he stops talking to her, because if this is all innocent and with no ill intention then this counseling will help HIM get that message across, and help you learn to listen.

Of course – the real goal is to get HIM to listen.

I’m not certain talking to him will be productive.

You have explained your feelings and how his behavior derails any progress you have made.

However his continued contact shows two things:

His needs or wants come first.

His needs come first even if it hurts you or disrespects you.

Think of his affair somewhat like an addiction. He craves the ego boost and cannot walk away from the person who gives it to him. That is his mindset right now. I’ve been down this path.

I could not see that my H being a but flirty was an issue until his last affair. The one that he could not end. The one that kept rearing its ugly head and forced him to become someone I did not recognize.

The only thing you can do is protect yourself. You have tried talking to him and honestly, HE DOESN’T WANT TO GET IT.

as I said earlier, if he won’t change or do something about his lying and cheating, then you should be prepared to either accept this is who he is or do something to protect yourself.

You cannot live in the state your marriage is currently in. It will drive you crazy.