SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Been thinking on this for a while. I know we have resorces on this site that deal with this but bear with me here.

As I continue to conduct a post mortum of my first marriage and betrayal that happened as a young husband and father, I can now clearly see some of the behaviors that contributed to the misery that occured over the subsequent decade that I decided to stay. In case a newly betrayed stumbles on this thread, I thought Id list some of them and ask for others input:

• Being wayyyy too nice. If I could reach back through time Id grab my young man self and try to drive some sense into me to elucidate that the altruistic, many times, get slaughtered, like sheep do. This is why I had to read resources like No More Mr Nice Guy

• White knighting it. Kind of related to the first but with the added dimension of a savior complex, i.e. Ive got enough love to save us both. Ah, young D.T. this will get you nowhere fast.

• Stubbornly refusing to acknowledge the death of the marriage. See above.

• Stuffing the anger. Anger is so very potent and if it is not acknowledged and vented in a non destructive way, it WILL eat you up inside.

• Isolating/go it alone. Terrible choice. I was horribly equipped to deal with this betrayal, especially as it was a x2 (wife and best friend). I needed help desperately. I did seek help much later, after it was all over but I cant help but think what may have been had I reached out back then.

• Staying for the kids. This had such powerful pull, but all it did was cause terrible friction/tension in the home and the kids could easily sense it.

• Settling for semi-remorse. This was very bad. She blew hot and cold when it came to true remorse. It left me in limbo and my inaction led to a frankenmarriage.

• ETA - Passive-aggressive behaviors (see my post at bottom of this page).

• ETA2 - False guilt. I went through a brief spate of false guilt (what did I do wrong to vause this?) but this was short lived.

• ETA3 - Internalizing the pain & grief and not allowing myself to mourn the loss of what we had (compounded by being first and only's).

• ETA4 - Staying in the same home for altruistic reasons, the foremost being that my WW loved the home.

• ETA5 - Turning a blind eye to/minimizing red flags, because, surely it cant be what it seems.

These are a few that Ive IDd. Anyone else want to pitch in/add to the list of self defeating behaviors of newly betrayeds?

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 8:13 PM, Wednesday, October 23rd]

Anyone can tell you these things but most refuse to listen..

Some will say they are happily reconciled after their spouse betrayed them a thousand times and enjoyed every single second..

To each truly their own, but sometimes you have to discover your limits through practical experience.

Here’s my two cents.

I chose to believe him when he first told me of the affair and it "meant nothing". Ten days later I’m a deer in the headlights facing an immediate D.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt. Oh he said "good morning" today! He’s trying🤪 and I need to focus on that rather than the bigger picture.

Yes I was an idiot.

Allowing him to deny an affair years earlier that I knew was going on. Rug swept. Biggest mistake of my life b/c it made it easier for him to cheat again.

And I worked for a divorce attorney for 5 years and thought I had seen it all. Thought I knew the signs.

I didn’t have the benefit of SI 11 years ago when I was going through his affair. However after 90 days I was smart enough to get a plan B, hoard $ and get prepared for a D. When I told him at Dday2 of affair 2 that I was D HIM, he never knew what hit him.

I hope he had some idea of how it felt. I have no regrets doing what I had to do. Sad that I had to do it though.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 12:52 AM, Tuesday, July 16th]

I fully recognize how woefully unequipped I was to face this type of crisis, in part due to the fractured and abusive upbringing I had so I would fall back on my coping mechanisms that were turned out to be counterproductive. I will say too that I desperately wanted a marriage and family that was light years away from/better than what I grew up in. What I got was more abusive behavior at the hands of my then "wife" and "best friend". It was a brutal blow.

As I have said before, I am in a great place now with a wonderful wife and partner, but again, I had to unlearn much and lean into new learned behaviors.

Anyone can tell you these things but most refuse to listen..

Tis true but there may be those in similar circumstances that will. Id have given much to be able to avail.myself of a resource like this back in those terrible days.

I chose to believe him when he first told me of the affair and it "meant nothing". Ten days later I’m a deer in the headlights facing an immediate D.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt. Oh he said "good morning" today! He’s trying🤪 and I need to focus on that rather than the bigger picture.

Yes I was an idiot.

Allowing him to deny an affair years earlier that I knew was going on. Rug swept. Biggest mistake of my life b/c it made it easier for him to cheat again.

I relate to this very much but you had the wisdom to come to your senses and act in your own self best interests within 3 months. Sorry you went throught that 1stWife.

I admittedly was smoking hopium for a long time.....

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 11:20 AM, Tuesday, July 16th]

That STUPID "Pick Me Dance" never works. NEVER. I thought it did...I danced that dance like a PRO...and I WON...my 1st H came back to me. BUT...about 2 years later I caught him with another adultery co-conspirator . The "Pick Me Dance" just showed my XWH that he could do whatever he wanted and I would do whatever I could to keep him . I WISH I could write that he was WRONG...but he wasn't . He left me after I caught him with this adultery co-conspirator. Their lurve affair only lasted about 2 weeks. Although we never lived together again...I tried dancing that "Pick Me Dance" in many different ways that seemed to work...until he would find a new "shiny" . It wasn't until I started seriously dating the man who became my 2nd H that my 1st H decided I was THE ONE. By then it was too little too late. That was a HARD lesson learned.

Thank God my lizard brain took control on my Dday with my 2nd H! Immediately after he confessed to his A...I told him our M was over. There was NO emotion...NO screaming...NO "Pick Me Dance"...we were DONE. The horrible traumatic FAILED experience from doing the "Pick Me Dance" almost 30 years before came back to the forefront of my limbic system and my instinctive flight response kicked in...I was GONE...and there was nothing my H could do about it. To this day I am so THANKFUL for the way my body took over like that .

Within an hour we were talking about R...but at this point they were going to be on MY terms. I REFUSED to do the "Pick Me Dance". I would never SETTLE again!! I gave my H ultimatums. I told him he didn't have to do any of them...but if he didn't do EVERY ONE...WE were over. To my surprise...my H agreed to ALL of them . He told me later that after I walked out of the room when I told him our M was over that his heart SANK. He thought to himself that if I gave him another chance he would do whatever it took to just be in my life again. If I knew that...I may have given him MORE ultimatums !!

We ARE happily reconciled...10 years from Dday almost to the day . It CAN happen...and it feels so GOOD to be on the OTHER side of infidelity!! It isn't easy...it is a LOT of HARD work...but it can be done...IF BOTH PARTIES ARE ALL IN . My H was ALL IN as soon as we decided we would TRY to R. I wasn't. It was around year 3 that I felt secure enough to take D off the table. My H not wavering one bit helped. Me not settling helped. Finding our FAITH is what helped the MOST though ! Doing our daily Bible Study keeps us connected in a way that nothing else has ever been able to do . God CLEARLY tells us where He stands on marriage AND adultery...it made His Top Ten list!!! Even if a person isn't a believer...the Bible has some pretty practical values for POSITIVE life hacks !

OP's post, and all that follows, could more easily be summed up as this:

Do not offer reconciliation in the immediate wake of infidelity. Make it clear to the WS that the opportunity to reconcile is something that needs to be earned.

Those who take decisive action after Dday and refuse to carry the burden for their WS find out pretty quickly whether they have a spouse worth reconciling with or not.

But those who offer to give it a shot right away without conditions, who do all the work for the WS, and wait around for the WS to "get it"-- ie, 95% of the people on this site, myself included-- find themselves suffering in purgatory indefinitely.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 4:55 PM, Wednesday, July 17th]

To piggy back off of blue:

Do not go straight to MC. Most of the first year is recovery, not reconciliation. The marriage can’t be built/fixed until the recovery/healing time he had a chance to bring clarity to both individuals. Ws goes straight to IC and should be working to prove why the bs should consider staying married to them.

Bs should largely focus on what they need, want, whatever helps them get through each day better. Think about your protection and security and work to change where that comes from. Start making a way to divorce so it’s there if you need it (saving money, drawing up papers, knowing your rights,etc)

Do Not try to win the ws or participate in fixing the ws. It’s okay to want to try and understand how it happened but accept no answer that isn’t internal to the ws. Try and get comfortable with limbo if you don’t feel ready to pull the trigger on filing.

[This message edited by hikingout at 6:29 PM, Wednesday, July 17th]

Thank God my lizard brain took control on my Dday with my 2nd H! Immediately after he confessed to his A...I told him our M was over. There was NO emotion...NO screaming...NO "Pick Me Dance"...we were DONE. The horrible traumatic FAILED experience from doing the "Pick Me Dance" almost 30 years before came back to the forefront of my limbic system and my instinctive flight response kicked in...I was GONE...and there was nothing my H could do about it. To this day I am so THANKFUL for the way my body took over like that  .

Within an hour we were talking about R...but at this point they were going to be on MY terms. I REFUSED to do the "Pick Me Dance". I would never SETTLE again!! I gave my H ultimatums. I told him he didn't have to do any of them...but if he didn't do EVERY ONE...WE were over. To my surprise...my H agreed to ALL of them  . He told me later that after I walked out of the room when I told him our M was over that his heart SANK. He thought to himself that if I gave him another chance he would do whatever it took to just be in my life again. If I knew that...I may have given him MORE ultimatums  !!

One word sums this up...strength. That along with titanium bounderies and the will to follow through with the warnings were what moved the CW down the path of true R it seems. If R is what you truly wanted,then Im happy for you that you have accomplished it (thus far....you know what I mean).

I just wish I had the wherewithall to have responded in like fashion.....

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 12:02 PM, Thursday, July 18th]

Assuming the BS doesn't move immediately to D, they should not agree to any ongoing contact with the AP. The WS has to immediately face that they are at a fork in the road with AP in one direction and the potential for reconciliation with the BS in the other. There's no bridge between the two that allows them to travel back and forth. If they can't commit to the right path and start moving forward, it has to vanish, for the health and sanity of the BS.

Do not offer reconciliation in the immediate wake of infidelity. Make it clear to the WS that the opportunity to reconcile is something that needs to be earned.

Those who take decisive action after Dday and refuse to carry the burden for their WS find out pretty quickly whether they have a spouse worth reconciling with or not.

But those who offer to give it a shot right away without conditions, who do all the work for the WS, and wait around for the WS to "get it"-- ie, 95% of the people on this site, myself included-- find themselves suffering in purgatory indefinitely.

Good synopsis. The whole thing is a shyt storm, but handling it in a weak manner is a true pain multiplier. "Suffering in purgatory" is an apt description. Ive said before that it stretched the pain out like taffy and a side effect became an internal "deadness" emotionally. I became numb over time, not just to my cw, but to many other facets of my life that should have been joyous. In short, after a painful and fractured upbringing, my dreams of something far better in my own marriage and home became just as bad, if not worse.

I just wish I had the wherewithall to have responded in like fashion.....

DobleTraicion...honestly...I didn't have it...it was an instinctive response from my experience with my 1st H. I describe it like I was watching a movie. It was ME...but the way I responded to my H's confession was so NOT me! I am a very emotional person and to look back on what happened and how I reacted to his confession it was so surreal. I had to start doing research on WHY I reacted to his confession because that was so different from how I normally react!

As I was researching this I learned about the "limbic lag"...and how our limbic system reacts in an instinctive response to certain experiences from similar experiences we have had before. It doesn't matter whether it was 30 minutes before or 30 years before as in my case. That made sense to me. My body literally took over...protecting me from a traumatic experience that it had dealt with before and knew where I needed to go instinctively.

I do have to say though that I do smile when I think back to how I reacted to my H's confession . "Strength" is correct...and somewhere deep inside...my lizard brain found it for me...and I am so HAPPY it did .

Bs should largely focus on what they need, want, whatever helps them get through each day better. Think about your protection and security and work to change where that comes from. Start making a way to divorce so it’s there if you need it (saving money, drawing up papers, knowing your rights,etc)

Thanks Hikingout. I couldnt agree more. This "me first" attitude post betrayal was very much needed but oh so foreign a concept to me at the time as a young husband and father. My role growing up was as the "stabilizer" for my siblings as my "parents" created such an unstable environment. Its not shocking that this very topic was one of the first things my therapist dealt with over long gruelling sessions. Man can your history of origins set you up for cyclical failure! It took the mirror of therapy for me to see it and take steps to correct it.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 10:29 PM, Wednesday, July 17th]

I do believe a major behavior that is not productive for the BS is to not keep all options available.

If we can't leave the relationship due to factors XYZ, then we have already semi-decided our fate. I will even go a couple steps further, and say that ending the relationship should be the default, if for no other reason that the WS's choice to have an affair is in itself an action that is leaving the relationship. I am sure there are many WSs, and former WSs that had no intention of leaving the marriage, but the actions show otherwise. Many may not agree with this line of thinking, but that's my interpretation of the affair....wanting something outside the committed relationship.

If the BS isn't willing to entertain that, then the chances of staying in infidelity increase exponentially. Many, many waywards never look to self-improve.....and that leaves the BS in an even worse scenario----staying with a cheater who has little to no remorse.

BraveSirRobin:

Assuming the BS doesn't move immediately to D, they should not agree to any ongoing contact with the AP. The WS has to immediately face that they are at a fork in the road with AP in one direction and the potential for reconciliation with the BS in the other. There's no bridge between the two that allows them to travel back and forth. If they can't commit to the right path and start moving forward, it has to vanish, for the health and sanity of the BS.

I did insist on this at least and believe that she held to it. I cut him off completely and had nothing to do with him from that time on. This was yet another casualty in my life as I had few good friends back then. Years later he came to a tragic end.

I do believe a major behavior that is not productive for the BS is to not keep all options available.

Ive advised much the same to newly betrayeds, that and slow down. The knee jerk reaction that moves you to frantic action us, many times, ill advised. Its hard to do. Adrenaline flows like a river. As does cortisol. Its no wonder sleep is so fleeting. Additionally, high doses of cortisol can reduce the immune system's ability to produce antibodies. I remember getting sick more than usual. This whole thing alters perception. Clarity of thought becomes more and more difficult. These are the blockers, that as well as FoO issues that Ive already mentioned. That said, I know how hard it is to maintain clarity of thought and make sure to keep all options open. Of course, as Ive saud before,I didnt have a resource liks SI available to recieve guidance from others whove traveled this tragic and well-worn path.

Ya'll have made me muse about a different and probably impossible question to answer. I wonder whats worse, betrayal early in your marriage and family experience, or later on, after decades of marriage?

I wonder whats worse, betrayal early in your marriage and family experience, or later on, after decades of marriage?

I lived this scenario...kind of. I was married for 3 months when my 1st H cheated on me the 1st time. THREE MONTHS . I was so distraught and had no idea what was happening. As a young bride...all I knew was that this man was my world and I couldn't imagine living without him. His excuse was that he always wondered what an affair felt like...and now that he knew he was never going to do that again. YES...I was that naive to believe him. Well...maybe young and dumb would be more accurate for me at that time ! The next time I caught him we had been married about 2 years...and had a baby this time. He left me for the adultery co-conspirator and I was thrust into having to raise a child on my own without the extra money from his income.

We were married for over 28 years when my 2nd H confessed to the A he had while working alone overseas. Our children were grown at this point and I had stopped working because I was able to travel with my H when he went to the different jobsites. I was actually with him in that country until a family emergency required me to come back to the States. About 8 days after I left that country was when my H met the adultery co-conspirator for the first time.

It was MUCH easier to detangle marital assets in my 1st M than it would have been in my 2nd because we really didn't have much. We didn't have as many memories together either in my 1st M compared to my 2nd.

My child from my 1st M didn't remember my 1st H because he left us when they were a baby. I was able to revoke his parental rights because of his abandonment and that paved the way for my 2nd H to adopt my child...so I didn't have to worry about having to deal with visitation or custody issues throughout their developing years. Our grown children and grandchildren would have been devastated if we had gone for D in my 2nd M. We decided not to let anyone know about my H's A...so no one outside of my SI family and friends know about it. They have all marveled at my H's newfound patience and overall goodwill...and we attribute that to him finding faith and becoming a man of God. That isn't a lie...we just don't tell them HOW he came to that revelation .

Because I was younger in my 1st M...it was easier for me to get a 2nd job to help make ends meet. If we had D in my 2nd M...it would have been a lot harder for me to get a job to keep me living in the lifestyle I had grown accustomed to in my 2nd M with me being much older. BUT...I knew that I WOULD make it from the experience I had in my 1st M and I wasn't going to stay in a M with a cheater...PERIOD.

This is where I can't equate being betrayed for the FIRST time after decades of being married. I HAD the experience of being cheated on early in life...and that helped me to KNOW what to do when I was cheated on later in life. Knowledge is POWER !

Want2BHappyAgain, thank you for sharing your experience. I must tell you that I physically winced when I read of the 2nd betrayal. To face this again in my 2nd marriage is almost unimaginable to me. Truly. You must be an incredibly strong individual to face down this trauma yet again. I too am remarried to a wonderful woman who is also a survivor of a brutal betrayal. Just awful. We have a fabulous relationship on every level. We have also had extremely strong and forthright conversations about marital treason and what it would mean for us. The contingencies are set in concrete. We are both very strong and successful people and brook no foolishnes. Treason is the 3rd rail in the subway for us. It will fry everything we have built together.

That said, I know of couples who have come back from the brink post treason and I doff my cap to them, you included. I hope its all you wish for.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 12:19 AM, Friday, July 19th]

Do not offer reconciliation in the immediate wake of infidelity. Make it clear to the WS that the opportunity to reconcile is something that needs to be earned.

Those who take decisive action after Dday and refuse to carry the burden for their WS find out pretty quickly whether they have a spouse worth reconciling with or not.

But those who offer to give it a shot right away without conditions, who do all the work for the WS, and wait around for the WS to "get it"-- ie, 95% of the people on this site, myself included-- find themselves suffering in purgatory indefinitely.

This^^^^1000 times this!

I can not emphazise this enough.

On Dday, I went ABSOLUTLEY APESHIT!!!!
I am talking DEFCON 1.

I started out calm. because I had watched WW for a few days after I discovered the A in silence.

When I confronted her, the look on her face told me she knew she was caught. She tried to lie, which I didn't accept. She then tried the blame shift ("I was lonely", "we were disconnected" and other crappy deflections) then she said the thing that sent me through the roof.

When I found out he was a bum who lived with his grandparents, and I asked....
"why would you mess with someone who could do nothing for you, after the life I have given you?"
She said "material things don't matter".

At that point I started throwing all her material things in Garbage bags and throwing them in her car.
I didn't care what I broke or how it looked. Clothes, Jewelry, makeup, everything I could get my hands on.

I distinctly remember and am still haunted by the visions of my daughters crying, and my granddaughter balled in a corner crying and scared. I remember WW begging, and pleading and saying she was sorry, and it meant nothing.

I was not hearing any of it. I am totally embarrassed by it now. I wish I hadn't done all that. But at the time I was an raging hurricane that would have made Hurricane Katrina look like a spring shower.

HOWEVER....

What ever "fog" she may have been in was IMMEDIATELY shattered. I later found out through my daughter that she immediately called AP and told him "my husband knows, and I never want to hear from you again". He apparently tried to call back and beg her to talk to him and she reiterated what she said with stern and profane language. Told him "no one is worth losing everything, least of all you!"

Point being, there is NO WAY in hell that I was going to stay with her at that moment. I was at the divorce attorney's office two days later.

She begged and pleaded for me to talk to her and eventually a scenario came where I had no choice but to hear her out. Relented from the hard 180 and had more of a soft 180.

I only found SI months later in the struggle...I had no idea what a 180 was, or Trickle Truth. She did give me a month of trickle truth, but I was an obsessive lunatic for checking her story and finding the discrepancies.

My recommendation is that a BS takes a Vibranium level hard line, and go to D immediately.

If that WS can be empathetic and remorseful and work hard and well enough to take you off that hard line, then great. Then AND ONLY THEN you can consider R.

But in the immediate aftermath of Dday, there can be NO grace, NO compassion, NO reprieve for the wayward. They must be forced to make that decision, right then and there and then stand 10 toes down on that decision....and not making a decision, IS a decision for the BS to leave.

TrayDee

But in the immediate aftermath of Dday, there can be NO grace, NO compassion, NO reprieve for the wayward. They must be forced to make that decision, right then and there and then stand 10 toes down on that decision....and not making a decision, IS a decision for the BS to leave.

Thanks for sharing your story. Sorry for all you went through.

I wish Id channelled my anger immediately in a constructive, self protective way. My anger came later but took another non prodictive way which was passive-aggressive behavior.

Passive-aggressive behavior got me nowhere. It actually took me backward. Id be cold for a while then warm up some. Id be sarcastic/cynical then feel guilty and try to warm up my behavior and speech. Id give her the cold shoulder for prolonged periods then come out of it and try to reverse course. I got caught in this loop for a long time. It was a road that lead nowhere fast. It was a learned behavior, my "winning formula" if you will. I now caution against this to anyone who asks.

Direct immediate action is the best way forward imo. Admittedly, given my personality. Id still need time to process before taking action.

Thanks again.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 8:42 PM, Monday, September 2nd]