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[This message edited by user4578 at 8:14 PM, Tuesday, August 20th]

I’m so sorry you are struggling.

I went back and re-read your JFO thread. Sounds like he has remained in the band. Was that a mutual decision or one you felt compelled to accept?

Everything you are feeling is completely normal for a victim of betrayal. The confusion, troubles eating and sleeping, and intense emotional pain. They are so awful, but I just want to let you know that you are describing what ALL of us felt when we discovered we were betrayed. You have every right to those feelings, they are good and normal, don’t let your WH or an MC try to tell you you are over reacting.

I hear some really strong themes of not valuing yourself in what you write. I understand prioritizing your kids’ best interest, that is a sign of an amazing heart, a mother caring for her babies even in her darkest moment. God bless you.

I really had to wrestle with what was best for the kids after my wife cheated. I really wanted to R, and my kids were a big part of that. But it is also true that the turbulent environment post d-day and even a zombie marriage that never heals correctly post A, both of these are sources of damage to kids. It’s one of the terrible realities of infidelity, there is just no way to truly shield the children from the cheater's selfish destructiveness.

As for you worrying about your husband’s well being over your own and his crocodile tears, to that all I can say is: just don’t. He is a grown ass man, he will figure out a way to survive. This is a classic example of setting yourself on fire to keep others warm. You are a valuable, beautiful human being and you have dignity and worth. You, friend, have value and purpose outside of this marriage relationship.

How has MC been going? Are you doing IC?

Sending up prayers.

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[This message edited by user4578 at 8:25 PM, Tuesday, August 20th]

So your cheater argued with an MC that was simply trying to get him to see thing from your perspective and was so petulant that he stopped being willing to go? 🚩🚩🚩

When I put the effort in, we have good days. But as time goes on, I find I don't want to put the effort in. I feel like why should I? He did that, got everything he wanted after, and I just have to deal with it.

You shouldn’t. You shouldn’t be the one driving the bus right now and you shouldn’t "just deal with it".

He's dictated how the relationship should be, and, again, I can see completely where he's coming from but it just doesn't seem fair or realistic at this point.

This is your empathy working against you. In honest and normal situation, empathy is a wonderful skill. With a manipulative betrayer, you can be killed with your own kindness.

He's definitely a better partner at the moment, but it feels like he's doing it all too late.

If what you describe is an improvement, then he must have been an absolute monster before.

Friend, you are in a disastrous situation. For brevity sake I’m not even pointing out all the glaring red flags in your WH behavior. It sounds like you have far more peace when you are separated from him, both physically and emotionally. At least while he still firmly has his head up his ass (which might be permanent) I strongly recommend getting yourself to safety and enforcing that separation. Kids are resilient, but they are also perceptive, I doubt you are a good enough actor to keep them from sensing something. And, most importantly, YOU MATTER! Take care of yourself. This is a true life crisis and I hope you will treat it as such.

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[This message edited by user4578 at 8:25 PM, Tuesday, August 20th]

Good father? the kind that spends his energy and attention on a side piece while endangering their mom’s life having unprotected sex?
Yeah… not really.

And what he s doing now is WHAT HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING all along as baseline.

What is he doing to fix himself? If he can’t handle a few sessions of MC, is he really digging deep into his own issues to understand why he cheated? And why is HIS comfort and freedom more important that helping you recover from the trauma that inflected on you?

Sorry - he sounds like an immature selfish partner.

And you think your kids don’t see you looking stressed and not eating?

Are you in IC for yourself? Please find one that has experience in infidelity and trauma and work through what you really need.
It’s so hard and having someone to talk to that will gently point out when you are not being honest or seeing clearly will help you decide what YOU NEED for R to be successful. He’s not giving you a lot right now. And you need someone in your corner.

And yes, "New start" is a euphemism for "Rug Sweeping" at this stage. You can’t re-start until you have cleaned up the mess he made first.
If he wrecks the race-car you are in by taking stupid risks and now you have serious injuries, you don’t get back to racing until you have healed and made sure he understands why he took the risks.

And please take care of yourself. Drink protein shakes if you are still struggling with eating, and see your doctor if you are having trouble sleeping. Hang in there - you will get through this.

To clarify, I’m not trying to tell you to rush into divorce. But if I’ve learned anything in my own experience and in my time here, you cannot safely reconcile with a betrayer who is behaving the way you describe your husband.

He has given you every reason to divorce him, but you don’t have to. You can (and I would say should) carefully weigh your options, this is an inflection point in your life. But as you consider, consider yourself before you consider your husband. Put your needs above his. If you need a physical separation from him to stay sane and functional, then tell him to have his mom make his bed with his old GI Joe sheets and stay the hell away while you recover. He SHOULD be nursing you back to health, but it sounds instead like he is indifferent, defensive, and petulant. You put your own mental health at great risk in that environment. I hope you value yourself enough to not do that.

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[This message edited by user4578 at 8:26 PM, Tuesday, August 20th]

At 4 months out I was definitely feeling the same feelings as you. I also would have kicked him out had we had no children.

One very big difference though is my WH didn’t get to chose whether or not when/why I wanted to talk about the affair. He answered (still does 10 months out) any question I had and has done so calmly and I believe honestly (even if those question were very specific to the actual sexual acts). He also would take every criticism I dished out and believe me I was fucking harsh.

I could not have gotten this far without this. There is no way to heal if you can’t discuss your feelings because it upsets him. He does not get to call the shots. He needs to do the things you requests. For example if you don’t want him on the band then he should quit!

I understand that your marriage may have been a bit shitty. Mine was as well. I know for a fact our sex life was dismal and we were only communicating really about the essential parts of life eg the kids, the bills. We did do ‘fun’ things but rarely together. BUT that does not give them the right to cheat. I didn’t cheat on him, you didn’t cheat onyour husband. A shitty marriage is just an excuse. If they were really concerned about the state of the marriage and were decent partners they would communicate their issues rather than fucking other people.

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[This message edited by user4578 at 8:26 PM, Tuesday, August 20th]

Oh friend, I am so sorry you are dealing with his shit. I am so inexperienced here and was about to write that he should quit the band if that’s what you want him to do -then I read your last bit so I see how that could be a really, really big deal. Three thoughts though a) YOU and your KIDS are a really, really big deal! I still think it’s fair to tell him that if he wants to remain in your marriage he must choose to quit the band. You’re not forcing him to do so, simply telling him that you won’t tolerate all the ill feelings it gives you and won’t have it in your life. B) you could do the same about MC. Tell him something to the effect of "I’m not telling you what to do- I’m giving you the information that I only want to be married to a man who will go to MC with me and actively work on issues. You can do whatever you want" c) girl, if he can’t support himself financially and that’s a reason you feel obliged to not separate there are a million things he can be doing to rectify this - go stocks shelves at a grocery store over night or drive for Amazon and then he can pay for the kids to be in an after school care program until you can collect them. There ARE options!!! I KNOW this is not easy and all of this feels overwhelming and like too many balls to juggle. Maybe pick just one ball to toss out at a time. Start with one healthy boundary with a positive impact on you and enforce it in like the next two days. Just one at a time and see how good it feels. It could be even smaller - like he has to find and schedule the marriage counselor. He has to apply for ten jobs by the end of the week… gosh I hope there’s something helpful in here. I’m blabbing because I have loved this twice now. Oxox

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[This message edited by user4578 at 8:26 PM, Tuesday, August 20th]

I’m going to comment on one thing you said.

"When you put the effort in things are good".

Wow! It’s like those words jumped off the page lol.

Translation: when you give in to his manipulation and let him do what he wants and don’t ask questions, he is happy with you and things are good.

A plane ticket for time away? Hell no!

He only went to 3 MC sessions b/c he didn’t like what heard - which was being held accountable for his actions. I can tell you from experience that YOU ARE IN LIMBO right now. You are not in Reconciliation b/c your H is still lying (and most likely cheating).

I lived the same nightmare you are. It was 6 months of being lied to and manipulated by my cheating H. If he made one tiny bit of effort I held on to that as a way to keep thinking he loves me and he wants this marriage to work.

Worst mistake ever.

You should think about continuing counseling for yourself so you have at least one person supporting you.

PS. If your H really cared about your marriage and you, he would put YOU first. Not his needs. Not his trips and band etc.

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[This message edited by user4578 at 8:26 PM, Tuesday, August 20th]

Oh wow!!! You did it! Please give yourself a squeeze and acknowledge that you made some progress today! I really, really hope he is the one to select and schedule the MC. That would show some great black and white effort on his part. :)

So, my take on the comment 1stwife made was that she is defensive for you and doesn't want you to be hurt further. Thank goodness there are people, even strangers, out there who are experienced and want the best for us. And, to be honest, when I read her reply, I was triggered and cried and immediately thought that I must be so stupid for believing any of the efforts my husband is making - that I'm prolonging the inevitable etc. So, I understand how you had big feelings related to that response.

I think I might try to use a calendar or journal to try to really make myself think and consider if there are more good days than bad for me. Have you tried this? Does it help? When you wrote that you could be "off" for a few days, it made me feel better because I thought I was doing so well emotionally and now have been crying for days.

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[This message edited by user4578 at 8:26 PM, Tuesday, August 20th]

User,

My husband was a professional musician for about 4-5 years early in our marriage.

He had a couple one night stands. We ended up separating and then getting back together. He didn’t quit the band, either. We had to work differently, though, because the music environment just lends itself to women being sexually available to the male musicians - and if anything causes the musician to have their inhibitions or guard down they are far more vulnerable to have affairs. It’s just a fact. My WH is an example - he was definitely taking advantage of his ego being large, or if a woman made the first move he would be interested. It’s the environment of the music scene backstage.

So you aren’t wrong to have your concerns.

The two of you might benefit from having written boundaries. One thing my husband had to understand about his "freedom" that finally hit home (this came up recently), because he also said he had issues about needing his freedom. I’m not sure what this is about "freedom", but DUDE, you’re married, this isn’t a thing you have anymore, but anyway, I gave him a boundary so he had MY boundary so he understood exactly where I stood and he could make his own decisions with clarity - and completely understand what his decision entailed. Here’s what I wrote to him.

"My boundary on sex or intimacy with other people outside the marriage:

You are completely free to choose to have sex and/or intimacy with anyone else outside the marriage. Because we are married, you agree that prior to initiation of any sex or intimacy with any other person, you will notify me respectfully.

I personally do not choose to exercise this type of relationship with anyone outside of the marriage.

While you may choose to risk sexual encounters with others, this means that anyone you have relations with can infect me as well. It is my personal choice that I will no longer have physical contact with you subsequent to you exercising your freedom to have extramarital sex. I respect your personal choices, and ask that you respect mine.

I will not judge you or disrespect your choice to have extramarital relationships. It is your right and freedom to do so.

It is also important that you understand that my right is to cease relations with you for my own protection.

Further, exercising this freedom on your part will signal to me that you have ended the marriage. Further communication will be via third parties subsequent to that point, and you will not see nor hear from me again should you make such a decision."

I told him that this is a kind of scorched earth boundary. If he chose another affair, I would silently leave him, and never see or speak to him again. His "freedom" would definitely be his. At a cost.

Funny how suddenly he no longer values this freedom.

I think he would be more miserable without it than I am living with it.

I think this is a very important issue for the two of you.

I know it is virtually impossible, but try to put your husband aside for the moment. Are you okay with the band being a continual part of your life? Are you indifferent towards it? Are any small resentments building up about it?

This has to be a boundary.....YOUR boundary.....and your husband's wants and wishes can not play into this. If you are truly okay with it, regardless of your husband's involvement, then that is fine. Just don't try to persuade yourself otherwise if that is not the case. That's where the fractures build...because you are being compassionate, and putting other's wants/needs in front of your own. But that makes your boundary flexible, when it should be rigid.

I get the importance of this issue. But it shouldn't be a compromise if it is an obstacle to your safety. It's very easy for people to tell you for him to quit the band, but you know it's nowhere near that simple.

But more importantly, is where you put yourself, and your needs, in this situation.

If your husband truly wants to reconcile then he needs to quit the band. He also needs to be contrite. The onus is all on him. He has no right to set terms, conditions etc. any rejection of your terms is one step closer to the end of the relationship. It’s his fault it got here and he must put it back together. You can watch but don’t fall for any pity plays. You ARE the better person. He must do everything in his power to win you back. Just watch and see. Plane tickets need to be thrown away. All people who enabled him must be written off.
This is war. The power is all yours.
Good luck.

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[This message edited by user4578 at 8:27 PM, Tuesday, August 20th]