SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Yeah. Oh, and remember J? The guy who was the primary AP? He was there for the whole deal and apparently she didnt even get with him at all that night!

I mean it sounds like bullshit but im codependent right?

So I believe it

[This message edited by 5bluedrops at 2:07 AM, Sunday, March 24th]

She has Nothing but contempt for the idea of being anything else.

And yet she's been sexual with a woman.

Change this around. If a man was sexual with another man, and claimed to have contempt for people who aren't straight, what would you think?

Regardless, she is claiming all of these people touched her,and yet she didn't touch them back? Other than kissing, she never touched them?

[This message edited by HellFire at 2:11 AM, Sunday, March 24th]

Essentially, yes, the claim is that she merely kissed back, spread her legs, made plans, drove to, and hid evidence of all that, and fabricated (1) topless photo. Solamente. Oh, and kept them informed of my work schedule. If she hadnt done that, how would he have known when it was and wasnt safe to text and snap? Or that she would be able to drive and meet him at the club they worked at that (1) solamente time?

Forgive me im flooding.

[This message edited by 5bluedrops at 2:24 AM, Sunday, March 24th]

People push the polygraph hard in situations like yours because when your logical brain is trying to put everything together into a "truth package" there is just too much that doesn’t fit together. For 10 years you’ve been working hours everyday working on a puzzle that the box says is a unicorn, but is really a picture of a big pile of shit.

Your marriage counselor is also going to help you try to assemble a puzzle of a unicorn because he also believes it is a unicorn.

Is it possible you have every bit of truth? Sure. Does your brain believe that you have the truth? How do you move forward in counseling while still believing you are being lied to?

Yeah, its problematic. The counselor called me around dinner time. I think my queries about whether my WW and he might have tried to thwart my polygraph dreams mightve concerned him a little, so he made some time.

It was…. Disappointing, as you all prophetically prophesied.

His plan is a long process of learning why I am the way I am, an extended journey to the center of 5BD, if you will.

He seems to want to fuck around on something other than the reason we came to him, And i need something totally different than what hes selling.

Preferably before i run out of whatever the fuck has kept me going this long without doing something drastic.

See and there you go. Those are nice words for "let’s find out what’s wrong with you that made your wife cheat."

You need to find and interview a counselor that specializes in infidelity and trauma. This is so damned important.

Why waste time on a therapist, use the money for a polygraph after she writes out a timeline.

Therapist get paid more the more they stretch out your suffering, ask the therapist if he or she has had an affair.

You wrote that the other girl messaged her that she was so wet, is she wet for you?

I suggest you talk with these other people who trespassed or make some trouble in their lives.

Yes. Always. Freakishly. When someone describes my WW as "so wet", I know instantly that theyve actually been that close.

Because its a characteristically unusual trait that is true about her.

[This message edited by 5bluedrops at 3:49 AM, Sunday, March 24th]

And? Well, theres a missing hour and 40 minutes, at least. Something she hasnt explained, took an hour and 40 minutes.

Her explanation? Well theres no telling how long we might have talked on the couch before they kicked me out.

In the infidelity realm, if a story doesn't make sense it's usually a lie. After a night of partying, what guys throw-out two women they KNOW they're about to have sex with?! Doesn't happen, especially with two of them in a relationship, come on, this isn't third grade, you know what happened in the missing hour and 40 minutes. You'll probably never get the truth, to give you that, your WW would have to face who she truly is, happens to a lot of us, happened to me.

IMO, the best thing you could do right now is fire your MC. It doesn't sound like he has a clue about helping a couple in infidelity but more so, you can't fix the marriage til she fixes herself. Just a waste of money and time, IMO.

[This message edited by DeWittle at 11:08 AM, Sunday, March 24th]

Well, its like you said, I know what happened.

Her hellbent drive to convince me its something other than what my lying eyes see is what makes me inconsolable.

That, and the obvious fact that there is no one correct course of action. Ive had every kind of advice; here, other places, my family, her family.

Rug, dont rug. MC, dont MC, polygraph, dont polygraph, stay and fight, tuck and run. Provide psychological safety, provide ultimatums.

Any one of them is a waste of time and money if you already know whats up, but your spouse wont cross the finish line. Polygraph? Yeah, if she passes, Ill never believe it. If she fails, shell never admit why. I already know, so why do I care? What is wrong with me?

Any one of these strats could work with a repentant spouse, but Im dealing with recalcitrance. Theres no answer to that shit!

Its not the infidelity thats going to cook this marriage, its her pridefulness.

This morning, she had to go in to work. I laid in bed while she prepared her shower, and she stomped around the bathroom loudly saying, "you are so lucky" over and over.

She means, lucky that I get to sleep, was able to sleep. But I dont. Shes stomping around the bedroom making as much noise as possible, repeating, "you’re so lucky!" Over and over again.

Because she is angry at me, that she couldnt sleep well thinking about this shit.

I dont think we are gonna make it.

She took away my home

My peace

And my best friend

I wish god would just snap his fingers and that would be it for me.

Ive never hurt so much. Ive lost people. Lost relationships before, oh yes. But I really am hurting more than I ever knew I could.

Thank you all for listening to me vent, feel sorry for myself, and not do what I should. Its kinder than I deserve, to feel seen. I think thats why Im really here.

I’m going to add my two cents. I hope it helps you.

In life we meet all kinds of people. Some good. Some bad. Some great. Some really horrible ones too.

What I learned after my H’s affair 10 years ago is that you have to trust yourself and your gut. If it smells bad or doesn’t add up, the person is lying.

IMO you don’t need a polygraph test on your cheating spouse. You don’t need proof of lying and cheating. You KNOW enough already to prove to yourself who/what your spouse is. A lying cheating not to be trusted spouse.

The next point is what are you going to do and where do you go from here?

If you think you are co-dependent then you could change that if you want to.

If you want to reconcile you can, but you need to face the reality of who and what you are reconciling with. Will your cheating spouse change? Will your relationship change and your marriage become stronger? Will your cheating spouse become honest and truthful and monogamous?

Or will it be more if the same pattern of behavior and you are being disrespected and cheated on?

YOU are the only person who can decide your future. I used to be a doormat and give in to my H. Until the day I decided I was no longer going to do that. I stood up to him. I would not back down. Two weeks later his affair started. I spent a year in hell trying to do everything I could to "fix" our problems and make him see we had a good marriage.

ROFLMAO b/c I thought I could fix it. Stupid of me to think that.

The day I had enough, I manned up and kicked him to the curb and restored my self esteem. I wised up and realized I was in control of my future. And I had to decide what was best for me & kids b/c I could no longer live with a lying cheating H.

It’s been 10 years and I have to say I am very happy. Not because my marriage survived but b/c I finally put myself first. And my H knows I’m no longer putting up with any more crap from him. If he wants to stay married he knows I will not tolerate disrespect from him.

I was fully prepared to D my H and move on. Fortunately he made many changes and put me and our marriage first. He made amends, permanent changes and admits he made mistakes in the past.

I am hoping your wife can do the same and turn your situation around. If not, you have to decide what you want to do going forward.

M friend, there is a solid plan. Stop listening to others. People here have been where you are. We know better than any mc, or well meaning friends.

Tell her to write a complete timeline.

Base your questions off her timeline, and schedule the polygraph. One question being, is there anything you purposely left out of the timeline.

Set requirements. At minimum..full transparency, NC, complete honesty, therapy. She must drop the anger. She did this,not you. Zero defensiveness.

She has a ton of work to do on herself. She seems to have zero empathy, remorse, or even love towards you. All of this alone,is enough to walk away.

If she fails the polygraph, you must make hard decisions. Are you going to stay with a woman who has no respect for you? Who refuses to tell the truth?

The bh who have the most successful outcome,are the ones who set requirements, boundaries, and refuse to tolerate anymore bullshit.

You need therapy to work on why you're co dependent.

You came here for advice. You're getting it. Take it. Drop MC. Going to MC with a unremorseful WS, who you know is lying, is a waste of money. And only hurts the bs more.

Her stomping around,mad at you that she has to go to work,and you have the day off? That shines a light on how incredibly selfish she is. She has abused you for years. She's a serial cheater. And she's throwing a tantrum like a toddler.

What's to love here? I challenge you on that. You love the woman you want her to be. You love a woman who puts on a mask, to get what she wants.

And...again..as long as she knows she can do,and say,whatever she wants, this will never get better.

And, really,the fact that she allowed one of the OM to fondle her,while they both stared back at you? Most women, even cheaters, would be horrified. There would be no "shock" because they never would have allowed it to happen. Bit she did. And she did it,because she knew at the end of it you would go home with her...and rub her back when she is upset that you're upset over her behavior.

Do you have family nearby? Maybe a separation would help. It would give you time to think.

You need to do the 180 and detach.

Im codependent because

My parents never wanted me. I was effectively an only child with two much older brothers. Mom and dad loved me when I succeeded, were disgusted if I struggled.
Sometimes they beat me.

I mostly struggled.

Pawned me off on my emotionally abusive grandmother, from 6-12.
I slept at mom and dads house every night, but we barely had a relationship.

I met a girl who I built a close relationship with at 13. We were close and moved fast. But in school, I attracted bullies. Bullying turned into mobbing. Once I was jumped in a locker room shower and my pubic hair was torn out. and at 16, My parents withdrew me from school, putting me to work in the family business to put an end to my whining. As far as they were concerned, I was a failure who owed them for the cost of having to raise me, so I might as well dig ditches for 7.50 an hour. From 16-19, my only social interactions were with my girlfriend and a crew of migrant workers who couldnt speak my language and who hated me for being the bosses son. Sometimes, they beat me up. My father did nothing.

It was a cue for my girlfriend, who succeeded in social environments, that she could do whatever she wanted because I had no options. So she cheated, declared our relationship open, closed, open, closed.
A crueler person than WW, by far.
We stayed in a toxic relationship until I was 21.

I met WW. I saw a person like myself in her. A loving, gentle, lonely soul whom noone had given an honest shot at a relationship. I resolved to become an answer for her. I wanted her and she wanted me. So we built a life to protect, honor, and love one another forever and always. Or so I thought.

I stuck with the family business, being told that persisting there would result in them eventually turning company operations over to me. That I would take ownership of the family business. I took on a more central role until I turned 30. Around that time they reached retirement age, and they just closed operations in the company.

Told me I could go work for my brother. Like I was a slave. So I did. But the promise of inheriting something never materialized. My eldest brother inherited me. Its good work and it was accidentally the best thing thats happened so far.

Ive been ostracized, bullied, abused and cheated on my whole life. Restricted from meeting others and certainly trusting them.

I probably have ptsd.

And I thought this thing with my wife was different, a heaven saving me from all that. Im finding out it isnt. Im struggling to accept that. To let go of the fantasy.

So thats my real story. Sorry, its a real, Im the victim here story. I try to take responsibility for why things in my life dont go the way Id hope. But I suck.

5bluedrops

I strongly suggest you get IC.
I get it money is tight, but frankly its either that or a divorce attorney.
To make ends meet, then put MC on pause for some months and divert those funds to your own health.

One question: What is it you hope to get out of a poly?
Keep in mind it wont get you the truth. What it can do is let you know if your wife is honest or not.

Like… If you are convinced she was fondled by 5 men but she thinks it’s 4 then 4 is the "truth". If one of the questions was "Have you been fondled by 5 men" and she says "no" then it’s "true" as long as she is being honest.

So the big plan from mc,is to basically determine what's wrong with you that made your wife cheat.

This is only one of the reasons we recommend no mc for quite awhile. They typically approach the affair as a "we" problem, not a "her" problem. Mc like to blame the bs. And, with your self flaggelation,and co dependent nature, you are a prime target.

Fire mc. Do it now. Please listen to us. Continuing down that path will only result in more misery.

Stomping around the bathroom telling you the you are lucky? What, is she twelve?

OP, I really don't think you have anything to work with. Do the 180, read Codependent No More ND start detaching.wrap your head around a life with just you. Every day you will get stronger.

Remember, you may not have caused thisctrauma, but you are in control of staying in it...

Are you sure she's not cheating with girls on the side and not considering it cheating.

Just can be another flaw of the polygraph.

Language matters. My wife and I have been married for several years, and had two children, when I discovered that she did not consider the acts of blow jobs, hand jobs, or a man going down on her, as equivalent to "having sex".

She also made a casual comment, "if you use a condom, it's not like you've really done anything".

Her view was that "having sex" started when you had intercourse.

This was a caution flag for what happened later. This was 5 years before her affair.

Of course by then, we owned a house and had two children. These conversations happened around something that was in the news, it gave me a very odd feeling.

However, I had no other reason not to trust her. Yet, you can imagine her going to a polygraph and passing it with flying colors, because she used a condom every time she cheated!

Except...when she cheated...she didn't bother with the condoms...

All this to say, "skip MC, do IC, work on yourself, when you get some internal clarity you may still want MC, or not". You don't have to work on the marriage right now. You need to work on yourself. This is old stuff from the past. It is very painful stuff. But you really don't have a partner you can work with at this point.

Just can be another flaw of the polygraph.

Have you had sexual contact with anyone,other than the people you put in the tomeline you have your husband?

I designed these questions to catch every possible deception I could conceive of.

1. Have you engaged in sexual intercourse with anyone other than BH since the beginning of your relationship?

2. Have you disclosed the full extent of physical sexual contact that did occur?

3. Have you intentionally omitted anything from your disclosure letter?

4. Is any aspect of your disclosure letter untrue?

1. is designed to out undisclosed PIV

2. Is designed to out sex acts between fondling and full on sex, since she only admits open mouth kissing and fingerbangin’

3. Is designed to catch lie by omission

4. Is designed to catch any lies by design

Point out any pitfalls. I expect this to be close to my final revisions.

Im done discussing my angle of attack on here for now.

In battle, confrontation is done directly, victory is gained by surprise.

Sun Tzu

[This message edited by 5bluedrops at 5:22 PM, Sunday, March 24th]

Those are good questions.

The administer will work with you, to make sure what you want to know, is covered in the questions that are asked.

I think your best course of action is to...

Cancel mc.

Give her 2 weeks to write a complete timeline.

Schedule the polygraph for 3 weeks from the timeline deadline. That will give you time to process what she has said,and possibly redefine any question.

Detach during this time. Read the 180,located in the healing library, on this site. Basically, you stop investing in her and the marriage. Take care of yourself. Eat, exercise, sleep, spend time with friends, or doing something you enjoy. Tell her you need space. She has a lot of work to do,with the timeline. No sex. Sex muddies the water. And wayward wives tend to use sex to regain control of their bh. Ask no questions during this time. Treat her like an annoying roommate. She walks in the room, you walk out. No small talk. The goal is to detach,and heal a bit. You can't do that when she's screaming at you. Also, it would be a good idea for her to move out of the bedroom. None of this is designed to be cruel. It's to help you gain clarity and strength.