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A man who is responsible to provide and protect his wife but has no authority over her is her slave. I don't support relationships of that category.

relationships in western society are not in a great place, and something should be done to correct that.

No, you'd clearly rather a wife be subservient to her husband and that there be laws in place to enforce that. Gross.

Relationships where respect doesn't exist are not relationships at all.

Well, we agree on something. I don't support relationships where women are not treated with the respect of agency and equality.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 11:51 PM, Wednesday, March 20th]

Ozzie trying to put the blame on this bad interaction WW had, on the OM *instead of* on WW and her bad boundaries.

I suppose my question to this is what if any WW's behaviour may have played in the interactions with the men who approached her. I don't think Ozzie got the full story.

There is not an "OM" in Ozzy's two stories in this thread. And you're making grand assumptions based on very little information.

@SacredSoul33 (post number 50 I believe)

sisoon:

IDK ... I have strengths my W doesn't have, and vice versa; in fact, her strengths in areas of my weakness was one of her attractions. We'd both be foolish to let the other lead where we're the stronger one, except maybe as a learning exercise. And we'd be pretty foolish to let the other lead in areas of our interest and the other's lack of interest. Where we both are interested and disagree, we have another opportunity for growth.

You really think one person should "lead the relationship"? Not areas of the relationship, like bill-paying, laundry, or yard maintenance, but the relationship itself? Because that's not healthy at all, IMO. That's controlling. You do you, I do me, and if we jibe, we jibe. If we don't, you get the choice to move along or tolerate it.

@SacredSoul, I am confused...I thought sisoon was in fact agreeing with your viewpoint....

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 12:31 AM, Thursday, March 21st]

I'm objecting to a man asserting himself as the leader of the marriage, like Maserati's patriarchal viewpoint.

sisoon said that a husband and wife should lead in their areas of strength, and I totally agree with that. But he led his response with "IDK..." as though he disagreed with the stance that there shouldn't be one overall leader of the relationship. It got a little confusing. lol

I can't speak for @sisoon we often disagree a lot too (laughs) but I took his "IDK..." as a sort of rhetorical...as in he DOES know and he disagrees strongly with the poster he was responding to.

I'm objecting to a man asserting himself as the leader of the marriage, like Maserati's patriarchal viewpoint.

One more woman that does not need a leader , protector or provider.

It is true that women can get hit on in various places. It is also true that nightclubs and bars attract a good number of people who are looking for action. It is much more likely that an attractive woman will be hit on while "clubbing" than shopping at the local Safeway market.

There is a buzz at the clubs that you don't get at CVS. The women are decked out and generally wish to be noticed. To say that they are only dressing for the other women in the group is total bullshit. You are in an environment that exudes a certain sexual vibe that you don't get at a Laker game (unless you are at courtside). That doesn't mean that married women go there with the express purpose to cheat and it doesn't mean that married women will necessarily succumb to temptation. But if women make it a habit of spending GNOs in such establishments, then there is a more likely chance that boundaries will be crossed eventually. Boundaries can be crossed anywhere, but the chance of that happening rises on GNOs at nightclubs.

BTW, the same can be said for married men who frequent these establishments.

SacredSoul33

WBFA was clearly referring to Ozzy's wife's AP when he said OM. Please pay attention to what is actually being said instead of getting emotional. lol

I think I see better now. Ozzie is certainly NOT the first BH who tried to transfer all of the blame of his WW's straying, on fully to OM, and this sort of thread--Ozzie trying to put the blame on this bad interaction WW had, on the OM *instead of* on WW and her bad boundaries.

Read it again, Maserati. And try not to get testerical when you discover that you’re mistaken - and that a woman corrected you.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 2:17 AM, Thursday, March 21st]

There is a buzz at the clubs that you don't get at CVS

It’s called booze.

To say that they are only dressing for the other women in the group is total bullshit.

I shared MY motivations as, you know, a WOMAN. Other WOMEN agreed with me. But please, mister, tell us what we’re really thinking.

SacredSoul33

We can ask WBFA what he meant. I don't mind being corrected, gender of the person correcting me is not important. The way I see it, Ozzy remained with his cheater, made excuses for her, still doesn't see nothing wrong with her going out, probably blames her AP for the cheating. What kind of measures would you make your cheater take to assure you of being a safe partner?

I mean, you displaying anger here towards another random man who simply expressed his opinion has to be related to what's happened to you.

[This message edited by Maserati at 2:35 AM, Thursday, March 21st]

No, it has to do with how YOU are speaking condescendingly to women in this thread, and how “another random man” mansplained how women think.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 3:22 AM, Thursday, March 21st]

Oh, there it is. "Mansplained". Duly noted.

The way I see it, Ozzy remained with his cheater, made excuses for her, still doesn't see nothing wrong with her going out, probably blames her AP for the cheating. What kind of measures would you make your cheater take to assure you of being a safe partner?

Glad you are finally here to tell us all how to do it.

What in the 1954 is going on here?

Look, men are often not the sole breadwinners in todays world. We have always made similar money and right now I am the only one technically employed with a salary. He is staying home working in launching a second arm of his investment businesses, but isn’t making any money currently that can go into running our household. Because we are a team and that’s what we agreed on for now.

I don’t really think either of us lead. We discuss decisions and goals and all of what we face together and we come to an agreement. We have similar sensibilities.

Most women work these days. Why shouldn’t she have equal footing in a household she half contributes to, or the house that she keeps and the children she raises so that you can have a career without many interruptions?

Run your marriage however you like but don’t be delusional enough to believe your way is the only way. I think as long as both partners share the same viewpoint on something, then that works for them. In Ozzy’s case they agree on GNO. I am certain that’s up for him to decide without judgement.

And the way you are speaking to the women in this forum shows that you have a clear lack of respect for them, which is only going to erode any points you are trying to get across.

Mutual respect in my opinion is one of the pillars of a healthy relationship. And that means there doesn’t have to be a clear leader if you are a good communicator and collaborative partner.

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:47 AM, Thursday, March 21st]

Every company, every board of directors, every country has one final decision maker.

Nah. Most corps have a board of directors that vote on major decisions or important items like a budget. No one person is the decider. There are different people with different roles that have day-to-day decision making tasks for expediency/efficiency (no different than any marriage), but for major decisions, typically some level of consensus is required. That is not a bad thing.

In my humble opinion relationships are no different, and relationship should be lead by a man. Naturally, the man must prove himself to be capable of leading, and if he is not, he shouldn't be in a relationship. Provision and protection should rest on the shoulders of a man.

I believe that majority of women want exactly that, and in fact resent men who they have to lead.

Bold of you to speak on behalf of a group you don’t belong to. Speaking for myself, I don’t want or need protections or provision, or someone to lead me. I don’t need anyone really. What I want is a partner who I respect and who respects me.

I don’t see how your stats about divorce rates have anything to do with anything here. I can tell you that if you stick around here long enough, you will see that simply "staying married" doesn’t necessarily equate to a happy marriage, in many cases it equates to being unhappy but begrudgingly staying because you don’t believe you have any better options.

Any woman who shows that sort of disrespect towards her husband who provides for her, and who is expected to die for her in case of an attack, is single from that moment on. Relationships where respect doesn't exist are not relationships at all.

I’m not sure if I missed something in this thread but marriage is not like conscription. Typically husbands aren’t out here dying on the frontlines of matrimony. Generally the attack a woman is most likely to experience in her life is from a romantic partner. I assure you, no part of me decided to say "I do" because I believed my husband would be a good bodyguard. To be clear, I actually agree with the last line I’ve quoted. I just don't think respect should be premised on income levels, sex, or perceived gender roles.

Looks like my post went over your head.

Please pay attention to what is actually being said instead of getting emotional. lol

*Posting as a member*

Maserati, you seem to be new here and I’m trying to do my best to give you the benefit of the doubt, but we are a community here. There are plenty of us who don’t agree on everything and others who disagree on most things, but we all try to be respectful of one another. We can disagree without being disagreeable. You clearly have some very specific viewpoints on how marriage works, and you are entitled to them, but what you aren’t entitled to do is trot out tired misogynistic attacks at the first female members who disagree with you, and not expect some pushback. Suggesting a woman doesn’t understand your big brained male ideas, or is too emotional to respond to your logic, is like patriarchal gaslighting 101. What’s next, asking me if I’m on my period for this response?

[This message edited by emergent8 at 4:47 AM, Thursday, March 21st]

Typically husbands aren’t out here dying on the frontlines of matrimony.

What’s next, asking me if I’m on my period for this response?

For the record, before the demand is made, I’m not very good at making sandwiches. That’s my husband’s department.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 4:41 AM, Thursday, March 21st]

Generally the attack a woman is most likely to experience in her life is from a romantic partner.

Suggesting a woman doesn’t understand your big brained male ideas, or is too emotional to respond to your logic, is like patriarchal gaslighting 101. What’s next, asking me if I’m on my period for this response?

MVP. Hall of Fame.

For the record, before the demand is made, I’m not very good at making sandwiches. That’s my husband’s department.

I can bring home the bacon.
I can fry it up in a pan. 😂😂😂

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:45 AM, Thursday, March 21st]

Lots of great comments here.

Men who hit on married women are posom or want to be posom. No respect from me at best. Why do we tolerate these people? They deserve a beating imo. I'm getting older but would still be up for delivering one.

Men and women can go to bars without their spouse all they want. But at some point a married person needs to ask what am I really doing in this scenario? There have been plenty of WS who did not expect to start an A and yet still found themselves in that spot. The slippery slope is a lot more than the club scene but why even go on the slope at all?

Maserati,
You have a pm