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Wayward Side :
Living as housemate? (but no R)

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 doninvaun (original poster member #75329) posted at 5:09 PM on Monday, July 18th, 2022

Has anyone tried the arrangement of living as housemate with no R?

BS insisted on absolutely no R since Dday, but wanted to continue sharing the property as "housemate" for other reasons. I've done every possible thing I possibly could for 2 years with the help from IC to try to save my marriage but BS would not budge, so I came to accept and respect BS decision for not wanting R; however I'm having difficult time with this "housemate" arrangement as BS still often berated at me with intense rage from triggers.

Has anyone else had the same experience and can share some suggestions/advices?

posts: 64   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
id 8745264
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BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 11:17 AM on Tuesday, July 19th, 2022

I haven't tried it personally, so I'm afraid I can't be any help in that regard, but I'm curious. Now that you know R is impossible, why do either of you think it's wise to continue living in this situation? I don't see how either of you can heal this way, and it sounds like a problematic environment in which to raise children.

WW/BW

posts: 2835   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8745359
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 2:41 PM on Tuesday, July 19th, 2022

Hi Don,

DarknessFalls has had experience with this. I would recommend looking her up and reading her threads. There's also a dis-used thread in ICR "Former Waywards Not In R" that discusses there. If you post a question there, it will bump the thread and get some response. It's not too active since there's not too many of us regular WS posters in this situation.

As for the situation itself, it's not likely to bring either of you peace or happiness. Nor to your kids. Kids need to see what functioning marriages look like so they can go on and create their own.

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Back at it again- bantering w the younger woman. Lied about blocking phone calls and deleted texts. Carried on with her.

Nothing changes if nothing changes.

posts: 773   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8745380
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 doninvaun (original poster member #75329) posted at 6:30 PM on Tuesday, July 19th, 2022

why do either of you think it's wise to continue living in this situation?


I don't think this living arrangement is helpful (mentally) to either one of us, but it's complicated...

posts: 64   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
id 8745402
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 doninvaun (original poster member #75329) posted at 6:39 PM on Tuesday, July 19th, 2022

DarknessFalls has had experience with this. I would recommend looking her up and reading her threads. There's also a dis-used thread in ICR "Former Waywards Not In R" that discusses there. If you post a question there, it will bump the thread and get some response. It's not too active since there's not too many of us regular WS posters in this situation.

As for the situation itself, it's not likely to bring either of you peace or happiness. Nor to your kids. Kids need to see what functioning marriages look like so they can go on and create their own.


Thanks MIg, I'll look up the ICR thread. Regarding kids, ours are adults, 1 still living at home, but he's usually out and when he's home he just locks himself up in his room to avoid seeing us... so yeah, it's a stressful environment...

posts: 64   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
id 8745404
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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 6:45 PM on Tuesday, July 19th, 2022

It’s hard to advise you without a little more info. You said you tried for two years. In what ways do you think you are different as a person or a spouse?it takes 2-5 years to heal from
Infidelity. I am 5 years past my A, 2 past my husbands. I feel we are probably 85-90 percent there.

What does say to say look like? You live in one room, she lives in the other, and you guys go about your business? Or you do things together, still have intimacy?

When you think about your A, what do you think?

I personally do not think that’s a situation that I would want to live long term. But at two years out my husband certainly wasn’t "over it it". I don’t know what your expectation, what you have put in, or how your wife is treating you.

I do know that it’s okay for either party to call it quits, even if you are the ws. But at the same time ws has a personal history of lying and stepping away from the marriage. It’s hard to say that you have done all you can, and it’s hard to leave a marriage. Only you can decide the tipping scale. If you did agree to
Live as roommates, would it be for a finite period of time? (Until children are grown, a bettering of a financial situation?) most people are not going to stay in a situation like that indefinitely.

5 years of hard work
Reconciled
WS & BS

posts: 6136   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
id 8745405
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Bor9455 ( member #72628) posted at 6:53 PM on Tuesday, July 19th, 2022

Before I learned that my wife's EA from the past had actually a) continued and b) become a PA, she had been demanding a divorce. A few months prior to that, she had really fought me hard on renewing the lease where we were staying and when we sat down and looked at the numbers, while our rent was going up, I was more than happy to pay that increase to avoid moving so we settled on a new lease. A few weeks before our new lease kicked in she is all over this divorce thing, and the penalty for breaking the lease was 2 months rent, which we didn't have handy. In addition, my wife hadn't been working and all of the sudden she got a job working retail for $12/hour and was hellbent on needing no support from me. Since we were in a lease that was going to be very cost prohibitive we agreed that we would stay married and remain roomates. We went to the point of having separate bedrooms. She moved out of the master bedroom and into our guest room. She put a lock on her door and was dead serious about keeping me completely out of her life and her out of mine. When I think about that time, what fresh hell it really was. We drafted a roommate agreement about how much each on of us pays and how she was going to pay me for her share of the health insurance that my company provides to me since I was the primary earner in the house. Now, I could afford the house on my own without her, but what does a single man need a 4 bedroom/3 bathroom house? There was no way that my wife could even swing a 2 bed/1 bath for her and our son with her other expenses and one of the primary concerns I had was that our son would be put in more and more precarious positions because of that, which is partly why we landed on the roomate thing.

For about a month we lived as roommates and it was torture for me. Sure, in September 2019, she had told me she wanted a divorce because "You aren't going to ever stop cheating on me." Earlier in the spring of 2019, she confronted me over my EA that she has discovered and I went NC at that point in time and I wouldn't break that NC until after she had told me that we were for sure getting a divorce, but yet here I was being told that I'm still cheating and it made no sense to me. I couldn't have handled that situation any more poorly than I did. I got into IC that fall and I was 100% committed to our marriage and when she dropped that bomb in Dec 2019, none of it made sense. Looking back, knowing now that she was deep in the fog and still very active in her PA, I was doing a "pick me dance" and I didn't even know it. So that is why I call it torture. I wouldn't learn of her PA, I was completely blindsided by it on Super Bowl Sunday 2020. I'm a huge football fan and I remember every Super Bowl since I was in early elementary school, I'm talking Cowboys/Bills the first time around and to this day I barely remember the Chiefs/49ers game, because my head was nowhere near planet earth that day.

My advice would be to tell you that living as a roommates may work as a temporary situation for basically in-home separation and we did it for the financial reasons I mentioned, but long term, if things had gone the other way, I couldn't handle it. I knew that she had been in some contact with her AP, because she admitted that since this had all happened that her and him had chatted, but it wasn't until I told her she had until the next day to to cut contact that she had or GTFO of my house that she finally came clean about the situation.

Myself - BH & WH - 35 years (05/24/1985)Her - BW & WW - 34 years (05/25/1986)<P>D-Day for WW's EA - October 2017D-Day no it turned PA - February 01, 2020

posts: 237   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2020   ·   location: Miami
id 8745407
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 doninvaun (original poster member #75329) posted at 8:46 PM on Tuesday, July 19th, 2022

Hello hikingout,

it takes 2-5 years to heal from


I fully understand it takes years for R, and a lot of hard work from both, R is not possible when BS refuses to get help and just wants to get revenge/get even, even my Therapist has told me for awhile now that I should throw in the towel because you can't clap with one hand.

What does say to say look like? You live in one room, she lives in the other, and you guys go about your business? Or you do things together, still have intimacy?


Separate living quarters. Intimacy? you're kidding right? I would be lucky not to get berated when we run into each other.

When you think about your A, what do you think?

I understand you're trying to find out whether I have had a true remorse about my A and I can assure you that I have, but it makes no difference to my BS as her boundary is firm; infidelity is a point of no return.

But at two years out my husband certainly wasn’t "over it it"


Don't get me wrong, I would never expect my BS (or any BS) to ever "get over it", I fully understand that the pain, the trigger will NEVER go away, but when both parties work hard for R, it will help to ease the pain slowly as time goes by.
I wasn't asking BS to get over it, I was asking BS for a chance for R but after 2 years, BS now still insists on getting even, and "no chance in hell for R".

It’s hard to say that you have done all you can, and it’s hard to leave a marriage

Actually my Therapist told me that I've done all I can several months ago, but I've kept insisting for keep trying... until now. I don't want to go into details but my Therapist suggested that I need to leave because how I've been treated by BS would be considered as abusive.

posts: 64   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 10:00 PM on Tuesday, July 19th, 2022

Okay. Well given all that, you still came here to see if we would sign off on the roommate thing. Why? There is a motivation here- kids? Finances?

A ws doesn’t have to stay and be abused. My concern was before telling you to leave I wanted insight on the situation. We get all kinds in this forum and without knowing much about the situation, the ws (which I am also) is going to be the most suspect in a situation given their history of cheating.

However if you are two years out and can’t be in her presence without being berated, I am not sure you have an option. It’s toxic for both of you. I would definitely move towards separation/divorce.

[This message edited by hikingout at 10:09 PM, Tuesday, July 19th]

5 years of hard work
Reconciled
WS & BS

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id 8745439
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Bor9455 ( member #72628) posted at 10:21 PM on Tuesday, July 19th, 2022

I was asking BS for a chance for R but after 2 years, BS now still insists on getting even, and "no chance in hell for R".

That right there is wayward thinking, specifically the part about getting even. I mean, it almost sounds like she is actively planning for a revenge affair to "get even" but since you ostensibly don't have a relationship, why does it matter? What exactly is she getting even? I mean, sure I think I get it, you are a wayward that has recognized that you love and care about your BS and you want to try and make it right with her and reconcile, but she not only insists against it but she wants to keep you living in this weird roommate situation.

Frankly, if she were to come here as a newly betrayed the advice she would get is the 180 to detach and the goal is to reach a state of indifference, because the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. However, it seems to me, from what you shared, that she is stewing in the anger/hate towards you, which means she still cares about you deeply, because she wants to and frankly knows that she can hurt you deeply, despite all her "no chance in hell for R" stance something doesn't add up there.


Actually my Therapist told me that I've done all I can several months ago, but I've kept insisting for keep trying... until now. I don't want to go into details but my Therapist suggested that I need to leave because how I've been treated by BS would be considered as abusive.

I would tend to agree with your therapist's take on this. What exactly are you getting out of this marriage? You are almost torturing yourself with seeing the woman you want to have as your wife be so dismissive of you and the work you have done towards R. If infidelity was the deal breaker for her, well, to be honest, she knows where the big girl pants are, she can and should've filed for a divorce.

I mean, just from the outside looking in, what are you getting from this non-existent relationship with your wife? A roof over your head? I think if I were in your shoes I would be pretty miserable so while I understand your desire to R, as we often tell a BS that they cannot R with themselves and it may be time to pull the chute, the same is true for you in this scenario, your wife doesn't seem like a good candidate for R and you cannot R with yourself, you can only heal.

Myself - BH & WH - 35 years (05/24/1985)Her - BW & WW - 34 years (05/25/1986)<P>D-Day for WW's EA - October 2017D-Day no it turned PA - February 01, 2020

posts: 237   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2020   ·   location: Miami
id 8745442
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DaddyDom ( member #56960) posted at 10:27 PM on Tuesday, July 19th, 2022

Actually my Therapist told me that I've done all I can several months ago, but I've kept insisting for keep trying... until now. I don't want to go into details but my Therapist suggested that I need to leave because how I've been treated by BS would be considered as abusive.

That may indeed be the case, I'm in no position to determine that. However, I will tell you that my therapist told me the very same thing(s). The advice I'll share with you is that therapy is something you have to take a holistic look at. Your therapist isn't wrong... everyone in the marriage is now working their way through heavy trauma coupled with a lack of safety and a fear of the unknown. Your spouse is angry, and hurt, and devalued, and humiliated. The yelling and screaming and crying and blaming that comes at the WS after infidelity certainly can be, and often is, abusive by nature. All that arguing and anger and the accusations and so on... it's abusive. But it's also life. It's how things work. And our spouses have every right and every reason in the world to feel that way. The thing we have to remember is that, we, the WS's, were abusive first. What we did, by cheating, and lying, and living a double life, IS abusive as hell. Our spouses respond abusively because we treated them abusively.

I want to point that out, because your IC's job is to watch out for YOU, not for your spouse or your marriage. When we go into IC every single week and tell them that things at home are hard, that our spouses are angry all the time, fly off the handle at nothing, call us names, keep bringing up what we did wrong and maybe even throwing some plates across the room, then our IC's have nothing else to go on. From that description, yeah, sounds abusive to me too. Get out.

Let me tell you what I discovered however. Once time passed, and I had a chance to really work on myself, and once we each made enough progress within ourselves to start really working on R together, my entire viewpoint of how things went down the way they did, and why, changed. The "fog brain" of wayward-dom changes everything we see and hear, and the way we perceive things in that state, is not always reflective of reality. During my affair, I had it in my head that my somehow hated me, didn't want me, and that she was mean to me and to everyone else. If you were to meet my wife, you'd realize that nothing is further from the truth. In fact, she's very empathetic and will walk through hot coals to help someone she loves. But in those months after D-day, all I could see was her anger. All I could feel was her blame and hate. It fed into that faulty narrative that I had created of her. It wasn't that she was abusive, it was that I had to see her as abusive in order to absolve myself of my own guilt. In other words, if she was a horrible wife, then in my mind, I could claim that what I did was somehow justified.

Obviously, although that same therapist did me the most good of any of them, I did not take her advice when she told me my wife was abusive and to get out. I'm glad I did not. I can look back now and tell you that my wife made every single, possible attempt to get me back, to keep us together, to sacrifice for me and for the kids, to do nothing but love me. She wasn't abusive, she was hurt, I was the abusive one.

I can't really comment too much on the living situation. There are pros and cons to it. Just make sure that whatever agreement you come to, that you can live with it.

Me: WS
BS: ISurvivedSoFar
D-Day Nov '16
Status: Reconciling
"I am floored by the amount of grace and love she has shown me in choosing to stay and fight for our marriage. I took everything from her, and yet she chose to forgive me."

posts: 1300   ·   registered: Jan. 18th, 2017
id 8745444
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 10:49 PM on Tuesday, July 19th, 2022

One thing you can do, is make some ground rules. Rules for basic standard treatment.

-Timeouts if the discussion is coming on too hot (escalation)
-No swearing, name calling, destruction of property or hitting
-IC for both of you (REALLY)

It's hard to demand she do IC, but if she's going to have any chance at healing, she needs it. Not sure how you make a horse drink from an oasis in a desert, but that's the facts.

If you figure out a way to make your spouse do something good for themselves, let me know!

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Back at it again- bantering w the younger woman. Lied about blocking phone calls and deleted texts. Carried on with her.

Nothing changes if nothing changes.

posts: 773   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8745449
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BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 3:47 AM on Wednesday, July 20th, 2022

It sounds to me like you're sticking around to pay the debt, but this is a debt that can never be paid. It's time to accept that. Staying and taking your lumps (literally, based on your post history) is helping no one. Regardless of what your BW says or believes, venting her rage on you every day is not healing her, and it's adding new layers to the trauma your kid has already endured.

She says there's no hope. Believe her and move out. It is the kindest thing for everyone, far more than your futile attempt to work off your guilt in the role of punching bag.

WW/BW

posts: 2835   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8745498
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DaddyDom ( member #56960) posted at 3:54 AM on Wednesday, July 20th, 2022

taking your lumps (literally, based on your post history)


If there is recorded abusive history, then please excuse my comments, it was not my intention to diminish anything you may be going through. I just wanted to make sure that your therapist wasn't leading you down a direction.

Me: WS
BS: ISurvivedSoFar
D-Day Nov '16
Status: Reconciling
"I am floored by the amount of grace and love she has shown me in choosing to stay and fight for our marriage. I took everything from her, and yet she chose to forgive me."

posts: 1300   ·   registered: Jan. 18th, 2017
id 8745500
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 doninvaun (original poster member #75329) posted at 2:53 PM on Wednesday, July 20th, 2022

Thanks MIg for your suggestions, but believe me, I've tried everything.

One thing you can do, is make some ground rules. Rules for basic standard treatment.

That's the issue, BS accepts no rule because she believes that WS are a criminals and therefore has lost all the rights, WS cannot request time out when they are being berated because they need to be reminded constantly about the horrible crime they committed. I've tried politely asked for time out and walked away (as suggested by my IC) but this action just fueled the rage more. Regarding name calling: WS deserved to be treated like dirt and be should be called the worst possible names because WS are criminals who get away with murder, even the worst despicable names are still too generous for WS.

-IC for both of you (REALLY)
It's hard to demand she do IC...

Not demand, I've asked, I've begged BS to start her own IC to help her heal but she just flatly refused, she doesn't believe in IC, she believes Therapist's only purpose is just to say things to please their clients in order to make money.

posts: 64   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
id 8745536
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 doninvaun (original poster member #75329) posted at 3:16 PM on Wednesday, July 20th, 2022

It sounds to me like you're sticking around to pay the debt, but this is a debt that can never be paid. It's time to accept that. Staying and taking your lumps (literally, based on your post history) is helping no one. Regardless of what your BW says or believes, venting her rage on you every day is not healing her, and it's adding new layers to the trauma your kid has already endured.

She says there's no hope. Believe her and move out. It is the kindest thing for everyone, far more than your futile attempt to work off your guilt in the role of punching bag.


You hit the nail on the head here, this is exactly what my Therapist has been telling me for several months now, but I cannot move out at this point for various reasons so I'm trying to find away make this living arrangement works.

posts: 64   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
id 8745537
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BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 3:16 PM on Wednesday, July 20th, 2022

So let's say you decide today that enough is enough. What happens next?

Without understanding your "various reasons," we can't be of any help to you. I have to wonder if the reasons are really excuses. Your IC presumably knows what they are and is still telling you to leave anyway.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 3:18 PM, Wednesday, July 20th]

WW/BW

posts: 2835   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8745538
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 doninvaun (original poster member #75329) posted at 3:58 PM on Friday, July 22nd, 2022

I have to wonder if the reasons are really excuses. Your IC presumably knows what they are and is still telling you to leave anyway.


I've thought hard about it and I think you are correct. Regardless that many of those reasons while tangible, they can be coped with (BS actually needs this living arrangement more than I do). I think maybe I'm still trying to hang on to this marriage by a thread with a glimpse of hope that BS might consider R. This arrangement is definitely not helping my BS to heal in anyway, so I think I need to let go.
Thank you all for your responses and support.

posts: 64   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
id 8745882
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Darkness Falls ( member #27879) posted at 5:31 PM on Friday, July 22nd, 2022

From what you’ve posted, she is not going to consider R, no matter how long you hang around and hope she will.

If she needs this arrangement more than you do, then you are in the driver’s seat—the one who cares or needs the least has the power. Tell her you accept that the relationship is over, but that if she can’t start treating you with the very basics of civility and respect, then she can make her own arrangements because you are done.

WS - remarried to BH but not in R

D-day 2010

posts: 6373   ·   registered: Mar. 8th, 2010   ·   location: USA
id 8745908
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 doninvaun (original poster member #75329) posted at 9:53 PM on Friday, July 22nd, 2022

Tell her you accept that the relationship is over, but that if she can’t start treating you with the very basics of civility and respect, then she can make her own arrangements because you are done.


You're absolutely right, I just need to pull all my courage for this conversation (I guess you can tell from previous posts that BS is a bit of a bully and I'm terrified of her), BS already told me several times that WS don't deserve to be treated with any respect because they're just low life criminals... It's not going to be a pleasant conversation...

posts: 64   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
id 8745951
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