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Divorce/Separation :
I really had no idea

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 robinbird12 (original poster new member #80235) posted at 6:17 PM on Monday, May 2nd, 2022

So my WH is planning on contesting the at-fault divorce. I have tons of evidence of his affair, but he wants to say the marriage was bad before the affair started. So of course I have to collect evidence that this is not true. All our whatsapp chats with all the I love yous and I miss yous and see you soon beautiful wife i am so lucky to have you.... and the photos together, and the christmas card we sent out to all of our friends and family just a month before I found out about the affair.....

I really had no idea he was unhappy. I had no clue he was in love with someone else. Vacationing with someone else. I now remember why I was in such deep denial the first 2 months after DDay, thinking he would come back. Because we were happy?? I am so confused.

Anyway, the settlement he proposed is RIDICULOUSLY horrible, most of it is not even possible, and of course dependent on a mutual divorce. It's absurdly bad. I'm meeting with my lawyer tomorrow. And of course he did not submit any financial documents. So I don't know... I think my best bet is to go to trial because he is so so so far away from reasonsable or good will.

Is anyone else here in trial? Did you try to settle first?

Betrayed Wife, 39

2 preschool age children

Year long affair, he left me for the OW in Feb 2022

*Divorcing ... in settlement hell*

posts: 48   ·   registered: Apr. 15th, 2022
id 8733164
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Catwoman ( member #1330) posted at 6:24 PM on Monday, May 2nd, 2022

My ex got his head handed to him at our first hearing, which pretty much dictated how things might go if we went to trial. We ended up settling 9 months later, largely based on the temporary orders hearing (which was very favorable to me). My attorney (who was very good) simply filleted him. He had been paying child support based only on his salary, not his salary and commission. My attorney started out with "Your Honor, here is a man who has paid less than 8% of his 6-figure income in supporting his children." The judge actually awarded an immediate financial settlement (a nice 5 figures) to me payable within a week for that little stunt.

Is your WS represented by an attorney, and is the attorney good? Most good attorneys will encourage their clients to settle, as it is less expensive and the courts like to see that. If he's not represented, that could be a whole 'nother kettle of fish. My ex was always better when he was represented, as his attorney kept him in line.

Has a divorce been filed? If you have filed, you can have your attorney file a motion to compel to get him to share his financial documentation. And make sure you get some teeth in said motion, like a $100/day fine for every day past the deadline that he doesn't produced complete documentation.

Just because he proposes it doesn't mean you have to accept it. Rely on your attorney and don't engage with him yourself. Also, look at the agreement in total, not piecemeal. My ex tried to get me to agree to 1-2 things without a full proposal and I refused, wanting to look at things as a whole.

Cat

FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 27 and 24. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

posts: 33052   ·   registered: Apr. 5th, 2003   ·   location: Massachusetts
id 8733165
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Forks027 ( member #59996) posted at 12:29 AM on Tuesday, May 3rd, 2022

Yup, it’s pretty typical that on top of being unremorseful in cheating and abandoning you for another, they have to ask for the moon and stars as you work on splitting up. Like a bottomless pit of greed and like being kicked in the stomach while you’re down.

You’re the one whose stbx told you you’d get nothing, correct? Proceed as if he means those words. Don’t agree to anything he proposes without the advice of your attorney. Hope you have a really good one.

[This message edited by Forks027 at 12:31 AM, Tuesday, May 3rd]

posts: 382   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2017
id 8733202
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 robinbird12 (original poster new member #80235) posted at 4:37 AM on Tuesday, May 3rd, 2022

Thanks guys. I have a good lawyer. So does he, but it doesn't seem like he is listening to her at all or telling her much. Because his offer includes tax fraud? Like setting up a company and saying I am an employee and paying my spousal support through that? I'm meeting my lawyer today. I'll keep you guys updated.

Betrayed Wife, 39

2 preschool age children

Year long affair, he left me for the OW in Feb 2022

*Divorcing ... in settlement hell*

posts: 48   ·   registered: Apr. 15th, 2022
id 8733231
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 5:34 AM on Tuesday, May 3rd, 2022

He wants to pay you as an emyplayee?

Fraud fraud fraud. Be careful after the D he doesn’t do it anyway - especially if he has your SS# etc.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 11864   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8733233
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 robinbird12 (original poster new member #80235) posted at 7:24 AM on Tuesday, May 3rd, 2022

Yes I am quite surpised he is openly suggesting tax fraud! Especially since he is claiming his has no income (because he pays for everything through his life through his companies... which is tax fraud). I have knowledge and evidence of big examples of him doing it too. I think I can send him to jail?? Or make him lose his businesses? I'll know more after my meeting with my lawyer today.

My lawyer said he sees men like this all the time who think they are untouchable. Wealthy, charming successful men. But then they get involved in the law and suddenly all the charm and manipulation and bullying doesn't work.

Like I said, my ex has a great lawyer so I don't know what is going on, other than he is just telling her to send what he wrote up and not asking for her advice.

Betrayed Wife, 39

2 preschool age children

Year long affair, he left me for the OW in Feb 2022

*Divorcing ... in settlement hell*

posts: 48   ·   registered: Apr. 15th, 2022
id 8733242
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 robinbird12 (original poster new member #80235) posted at 11:35 AM on Tuesday, May 3rd, 2022

Not looking good guys, the data protection laws in this country plus premarital assets plus him having his own businesses mean I’m really screwed. No money to show for the last 8 years of my life, and losing my kids at age 9. Or I can be a poor single mother in a foreign country with no family.

I’m devastated.

[This message edited by robinbird12 at 11:36 AM, Tuesday, May 3rd]

Betrayed Wife, 39

2 preschool age children

Year long affair, he left me for the OW in Feb 2022

*Divorcing ... in settlement hell*

posts: 48   ·   registered: Apr. 15th, 2022
id 8733251
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 11:50 AM on Tuesday, May 3rd, 2022

Oh my gosh I am so sorry for you.

What do you mean losing your kids? Is he demanding full custody?

Can you leave the country ASAP?

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 11864   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8733253
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 robinbird12 (original poster new member #80235) posted at 6:17 PM on Tuesday, May 3rd, 2022

Hi 1st wife, no he only wants every other weekend. But hardly any support for me so I will need to work full time and pay for childcare. And he wants me to stay in this country (I am only here bc of him) and not take the kids to mine. And if I want to I have to send them back at age 9.

We are still negotiating but he’s not disclosing anything and being really difficult.

Betrayed Wife, 39

2 preschool age children

Year long affair, he left me for the OW in Feb 2022

*Divorcing ... in settlement hell*

posts: 48   ·   registered: Apr. 15th, 2022
id 8733347
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Catwoman ( member #1330) posted at 6:54 PM on Tuesday, May 3rd, 2022

I'm not sure where you are, country-wise, but his demands are ludicrous and he's not going to see them realized.

At this point, I would not deal with him directly. "I will look that over" is all you should say to him. Then pass everything along to your attorney. If he starts in on demanding this or that, just say "this conversation is over--goodbye" and hang up. He is COUNTING on bullying you into a settlement. Don't let him do this.

Remember that these are just "wants" on his part. They are NOT what you are going to end up with. People in hell want ice water, too.

Keep saying that to yourself. I know it's hard to not be bullied when that is how you have lived for a long time, but DO NOT AGREE TO ANYTHING WITHOUT CONSULTING WITH YOUR ATTORNEY AND WITH A FULL SETTLEMENT ON THE TABLE, not a piecemeal one.

Cat

FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 27 and 24. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

posts: 33052   ·   registered: Apr. 5th, 2003   ·   location: Massachusetts
id 8733357
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Forks027 ( member #59996) posted at 9:07 PM on Tuesday, May 3rd, 2022

Don’t give up yet, robin. Your lawyer’s dealt with people like your stbx, right? There should be some leeway for you and your children somewhere.

posts: 382   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2017
id 8733393
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 robinbird12 (original poster new member #80235) posted at 1:29 PM on Wednesday, May 4th, 2022

Hi guys, yes I tried doing it with him personally on the phone today and basically not much better- he wants to get us a house through a company or not at all. My mom would have to get the loan and she said NO so no house from my WH. But that is probably better. I am still so in love with him and so attracted to him. It's a major problem.

The issue is I want to take our kids to the US and raise them here, he says if I dont take his deal he won't let me.

So I am kind of stuck, hoping to negotiate a little bit but even though I am owed alimony for life, if I take that I lose my kids or can't go home.....

not a great situation and I feel like a big loser here.

The plus side is I have a decent career/education and my family has some money to help me get on my feet. So I might just take the crappy deal and get my freedom.

Betrayed Wife, 39

2 preschool age children

Year long affair, he left me for the OW in Feb 2022

*Divorcing ... in settlement hell*

posts: 48   ·   registered: Apr. 15th, 2022
id 8733520
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Forks027 ( member #59996) posted at 4:52 PM on Wednesday, May 4th, 2022

What does your lawyer say about all this? Is it favorable for you to take the deal? Or is he saying something else?

posts: 382   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2017
id 8733560
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 robinbird12 (original poster new member #80235) posted at 7:38 AM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

He said the best thing to do would be stay married to him. He can't divorce me for 3 years. The deal is pretty bad, but unfortunately my ex has really made all our assets divorce proof and he has no income.

He is keeping our home, cars, furniture... everything. I am expected to have full custody of our kids and work full time and provide a house, car furniture etc all on my own. The amount he gives me is neglible. Certainly not enough to cover all these things.

So at this point I am leaning towards making him keep the kids. He gets to keep everything they need, he should keep them too. We are both working full time so what is the difference. I can earn enough money to support myself, but I cannot earn enough to support myself and the kids.

I am devastated about this but I don't see any other way.

Betrayed Wife, 39

2 preschool age children

Year long affair, he left me for the OW in Feb 2022

*Divorcing ... in settlement hell*

posts: 48   ·   registered: Apr. 15th, 2022
id 8733644
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Forks027 ( member #59996) posted at 11:04 AM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

Suppose you do hand him full custody and happen to acquire enough in time that you’ll be able to support them again, would you be able to go back to get the custody changed? Bc if your ex is the controlling sort, I doubt he will make it easy.

If that’s what you really think is best, and lawyer has no good alternatives, then do what you must. Just be careful of any antics he might try with the kids.

[This message edited by Forks027 at 11:23 AM, Thursday, May 5th]

posts: 382   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2017
id 8733655
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 12:26 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

I am so sorry for you. This breaks my heart.

Too bad you cannot just up and leave NOW! With the kids. Move to the US.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 11864   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8733662
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 robinbird12 (original poster new member #80235) posted at 2:14 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

I cannot afford them. I dont think I can take them from a life of luxury with their father to a life of poverty with me.

Betrayed Wife, 39

2 preschool age children

Year long affair, he left me for the OW in Feb 2022

*Divorcing ... in settlement hell*

posts: 48   ·   registered: Apr. 15th, 2022
id 8733667
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barcher144 ( member #54935) posted at 3:35 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

So I don't know... I think my best bet is to go to trial because he is so so so far away from reasonsable or good will.

Is anyone else here in trial? Did you try to settle first?

I went to trial. It will be incredible expensive for both of you if this happens.

Generally speaking, no divorce should go to trial. In order to get to trial, at least one of the two participants has to be completely unreasonable. In fact, if you have a good attorney, your attorney will do everything possible to ensure that a trial does not happen.

I tried like crazy to settle. We actually reached a verbal agreement at mediation, but afterwards she tried to claim that all parts of the agreement that she liked we final and that she could ignore the parts of the agreement that she didn't like. So, eventually, the entirety of our agreement at mediation was ignored. After that, I made 10-20 different settlement offers and she made zero counter-offers. She made one offer of her own, to which I provided a counter-offer. She did not respond to my counter-offer. She then complained at trial that I refused to negotiate in an attempt to get me to pay some of her attorney's fees.

My first piece of advice to you would be to spend serious time and effort giving your attorney all of the details of your case as you can. Learn about the divorce laws in your location as best as you can (because they vary a lot depending on where you live) and ask about this law/statute and that law/statute. You know your case better than anyone and your attorney knows the law better than you; the two of you need to become a team to effectively litigate your case.

My second piece of advice is to be patient. The legal system moves very very slowly.

My third piece of advice is to trust your lawyer. If you don't trust your lawyer, then get a new lawyer. This means that if your lawyer gives you advice that you do not like, you follow it anyway.

Finally, I would also be very very careful about not doing anything that could be perceived as retaliatory or inflammatory towards him. In contrast, keep all communications from him that you can... especially if he does anything punitive.

Finally, and I apologize if I am off-base here, but based on what you wrote... he seems to have a lot of crazy legal theories going on in his head (he is claiming that the marriage was bad before the affair? so that voids the at-fault statutes? What a genius legal theory!). Do not respond to any of these legal theories in your conversations with him. You just inform your lawyer and listen to your lawyer. If you negotiate, do not bend at all to these crazy legal theories.

A lot of people have these crazy theories. My state has a statute that assumes that all adults can work a full time job. My divorce went to trial primarily because my ex was trying to claim that her salary should be based on her part-time salary rather than the salary that she would have made if she worked part-time. She refused to budge at all on this issue. We went to trial and sure enough... the judge ruled in my favor. Trial was expensive but I effectively made the right decision because the financial consequences of accepting her view of divorce law were more expensive than trial. In the end, we paid about $30,000 each to go to trial, only to have the judge make a ruling that was shockingly identical to agreement that we had reached at mediation.

Me: BH, age 48
Her: WS, age 45 (multiple EAs and PAs)
D-Day: August 30, 2016

Diagnosed with depression in December 2016, which was primarily caused by my xWW's affair and associated emotional abuse.

posts: 5256   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2016
id 8733680
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 robinbird12 (original poster new member #80235) posted at 6:31 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

Thanks everyone! I think we found a solution-

we are going to stay married and I am going to found a real estate consulatancy LLC in the USA. I will work for my ex's company doing consultancy work and bill him monthly. Probably a large lump sum payment as well.

This was we are paying business to business and not taking out money and getting taxed, and then enjoying some sweet deductions on the USA side. (my company car, cell phone, gas etc)

As we are still married, him helping me out with a large downpayment on the house isn't such a loss, because it's half his too.

So I'm feeling pretty optimistic!

[This message edited by robinbird12 at 6:32 PM, Thursday, May 5th]

Betrayed Wife, 39

2 preschool age children

Year long affair, he left me for the OW in Feb 2022

*Divorcing ... in settlement hell*

posts: 48   ·   registered: Apr. 15th, 2022
id 8733704
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Catwoman ( member #1330) posted at 2:40 PM on Friday, May 6th, 2022

I would have an attorney draw up an agreement that can be enforced.

WSs are notoriously famous for promising things and then reneging on them. Dealt with this numerous times with my now-ex.

I want to see you legally protected with a legal avenue to compel him to do as he has promised.

Cat

FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 27 and 24. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

posts: 33052   ·   registered: Apr. 5th, 2003   ·   location: Massachusetts
id 8733886
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