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Wayward Side :
Old tale of infidelity and breach of trust... Looking for hope!

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ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 12:11 AM on Saturday, May 28th, 2022

The big unspoken issue between us is the house that I built - I would like to agree on 50/50 split, but whenever I raise this point for a normal discussions she sends me off pretty rudely.

You have a legal right to a fair settlement. Cheating doesn't change that.

What it sounds like to me is that your wife has moved on. I don't see any indication that she's willing to work on the marriage, and I think you might be reading more into the shared parenting time than what there is. That she sends you packing every time you bring up the home sale should be telling you something, right? She's comfortable with the way things are right not, but that doesn't mean she will ever want to reconcile. She could theoretically go on like she is forever, unless she decides to marry the boyfriend.

I hate to be a downer, but I kind of think the writing is on the wall here and that you might to well to see an attorney and make it official. That's sad, but you'll still be as great a dad as you want to be, and who know?.. maybe you'll take all that you've learned and make something new with it.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7

No one can make you into a liar but you.

posts: 5672   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8737565
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 Spaceman (original poster new member #80138) posted at 3:36 PM on Sunday, May 29th, 2022

Just had really terrible weekend, i must say. Wrote an e-mail to my ex-partner about that would be good to discuss and reach fair agreement on the house settlement as other way we would have to involve lawyers and probably court.

Got an answer back that she can barely finance house by herself, but she will never agree on selling the house or buyout. That I want to take away house from the kids and if I will go to court she will tell everyone how i cheated her and caused her depression. That she despises me with all her heart, that i will find myself in hell and that I am putting my needs above my children needs. That I want to take money from her after the damage I did to her.

And self-blame spiral starts again... Now again I start to doubt myself and whether I have even rights to fight for a fair settlement. Whatever I do (and probably its my fault), there is no way coming out of this mess without everyone getting hurt again. What have I done to my family...

And feel like the shittiest cheater in the world and would like to crawl back under my rock.....

posts: 36   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022   ·   location: Poland
id 8737729
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prissy4lyfe ( member #46938) posted at 3:49 PM on Sunday, May 29th, 2022

Fair.... that's just a place you visit with cotton candy and deep friend oreos.

If adultery was "fair"... there would be a lot more consequences.

posts: 2066   ·   registered: Feb. 24th, 2015   ·   location: Virginia
id 8737730
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prissy4lyfe ( member #46938) posted at 4:00 PM on Sunday, May 29th, 2022

Why 50/50? Why not 60/40? Or a split that will allow her to keep the house?

posts: 2066   ·   registered: Feb. 24th, 2015   ·   location: Virginia
id 8737733
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 Spaceman (original poster new member #80138) posted at 4:05 PM on Sunday, May 29th, 2022

By 'fair' I mean that I am willing to give up a significant part of the value of the house as my actions where the reason of all this disaster.

At the same time, leaving the house that i built without any claim - will put me in really crappy situation when it comes to possibilities of me providing care / place to live for my kids, as I am very hands-on dad. I do not intend to have a new partner in my life for a foreseeable future and focus solely on fatherhood. Does this way of thinking makes me a bad person (no sarcasm)? Or am I being selfish me-me bastard again (no sarcasm as well)?

There is simply not a good way out of this, i suppose.

P.S Now I do not have a doubt in mind, that it is impossible to buy out myself from what i did.

posts: 36   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022   ·   location: Poland
id 8737734
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 Spaceman (original poster new member #80138) posted at 4:09 PM on Sunday, May 29th, 2022

"Why 50/50? Why not 60/40? Or a split that will allow her to keep the house?"

I even offered for discussion buyout where my ex buys out only my building/renovation investments (the value of the houses in our district have increased dramatically and she would be left very well off in the sense of equity). The problem is that - she earns really good - but still on her own she will not be able to shoulder the costs of buyout + the maintaining the house (even with me paying alimony).

The real only way how she keeps the house is that I just let it go and leave it 100% to her.

posts: 36   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022   ·   location: Poland
id 8737735
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prissy4lyfe ( member #46938) posted at 4:17 PM on Sunday, May 29th, 2022

What about the house in lieu of alimony, reduced child support?

How creative can you get?

posts: 2066   ·   registered: Feb. 24th, 2015   ·   location: Virginia
id 8737737
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 Spaceman (original poster new member #80138) posted at 2:52 PM on Monday, May 30th, 2022

Not really sure.

I think honest, really honest truth is that I am lying to myself a bit.

In a sense having this idea that being consistently kind and good presence in our kids life and helping my ex in that way, there could be a possibility to have a new start between us.

But then again, this simply another way of trying to control the outcome...

I could probably, maybe in financial terms shoulder the loss of the house, but that most probably is drug called hope speaking. And my ex has successfully planted the thought that I will be robbing our kids the childhood, if this house will have to be sold. So there is also that.

I guess the facts are following. My ex has been consistent in having no contact with me (besides kids), occasionally confirmed that she has zero respect (understandably so) and will try to destroy me if I have a thought of 'fair settlement' (though these might be emotions speaking; just as I have been stupidly petty/passive aggressive in the moments of arguing), she considers that I have 0 claims to the house, even if I was the one funding 90% of the building/etc., on the other hand - she also has been fully supportive as to my role of father (goes both ways).

The narration in my head is that of a tiny bit of hope - which goes against the facts on the ground.

Maybe right now I am in the stage where as WS I have to accept the fact that terrible actions have terrible consequences. Either i go for a 'fair' settlement in which my ex gets (as she should) bigger piece of the pie - and be even more hated for rest of my life; or i leave the house to her and lock my future and severely limit possibilities to provide for kids.

Another - really big element - is that I have some big issues of defining who I am. I talked about this a lot with my IC. So much of my 'success' (in personal terms and professional as well) has been driven by external validation. And even now - in some perverse way I expect that there will be an outcome where we both with my ex are satisfied. The truth is that we are well beyond this point. And that I hate to take a decision where somebody is 'left out' at the detriment to myself (just so I can get the 'applause' from other person; one of the why's of my cheating, btw). Deep down I know that I will not fight for 'my right' i will mentally chew myself until the end of my life about my indecisiveness on this. And the conundrum is that I do not really know or respect myself - if me wanting to not totally suffer financially -is it a me-me douchebag approach or just a normal self-care.

So that is to be discussed with IC. As for legal matters, I guess the best next step is talking to a lawyer, to explore all possible options.

posts: 36   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022   ·   location: Poland
id 8737795
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RangerS ( member #79516) posted at 4:20 PM on Monday, May 30th, 2022

You are unlikely to reach a settlement that makes her happy unless you capitulate on everything. Do not give up your financial interest in the house. It sounds like divorce is certain, so would something along the lines of agreeing to sell the house after the kids are old enough to move out on their own. Set a firm age foe this. In the mean time you pay the taxes, she maintains the house and you split the children's expenses and there is no alimony. Since she is being very hard to deal with you may have to legally force the issue.
Don't let her use exposure as a form of blackmail. She is trying to use it to get everything she wants. Once she has what she wants, she will probably tell everyone anyway. I would suggest that you admit what you did to various people and that will take her power away. At the same time you can tell them about the fair divorce you are offering her.

posts: 57   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2021
id 8737804
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ff4152 ( member #55404) posted at 5:28 PM on Monday, May 30th, 2022

Hi Spaceman

I echo what RangerS said. I would ask you to look up the story of a user called Mefford. His wife offered R only if he essentially gave away the farm to her. In the end, it was a ruse and she never had any intention of R and he was left in financial ruin.

IMO you should set aside any hope of R. By all indications, the marriage is over. While no one can fault you for wanting to be kind to your wife, I don’t think that should include falling on your financial sword either.

Fix your shit, be the best possible person and father you can be. If that somehow repairs the relationship with your wife down the road, great.

Me -FWS

posts: 1942   ·   registered: Sep. 30th, 2016
id 8737810
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prissy4lyfe ( member #46938) posted at 7:50 PM on Monday, May 30th, 2022

Here is the rub..

You expect fairness and kindness and decency from your victim.
And are actively encouraged to have these expectations by others to do so.

Acknowledge it's shitty, that you want "fair" and that's what will you will seek.

Give her the opportunity you did not give with your affair. Tell her what your intentions are so she can plan and prepare mentally, emotionally and most importantly financially.
Then accept the fall out.

posts: 2066   ·   registered: Feb. 24th, 2015   ·   location: Virginia
id 8737822
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ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 8:37 PM on Monday, May 30th, 2022

If it's really about the kids, you can defer settlement until they are older and THEN take your half, much as RangerS has suggested. That said, I think it's better to get it all out of the way so everyone knows where they stand. Your wife is dating now, isn't she? She's moved on from the marriage but she wants to keep the trappings of it, and that's just not reasonable. You need your money too because you have half the parenting to do and will need to set up a home for those kids as well. This is what divorce IS. She can't have it both ways.

Got an answer back that she can barely finance house by herself, but she will never agree on selling the house or buyout. That I want to take away house from the kids and if I will go to court she will tell everyone how i cheated her and caused her depression. That she despises me with all her heart, that i will find myself in hell and that I am putting my needs above my children needs. That I want to take money from her after the damage I did to her.


I would see an attorney and go ahead with the filing. You saw when you pushed a little for an answer that she's most likely just been keeping you sweet without any intention of R. If that's the case, it's dishonest for the sake of financial gain, a fraud. I'm sure it's very tempting for a remorseful WS to capitulate to these kinds of demands, but you do have to think about what YOUR parenting is going to look like as the future unfolds. Right now, you're kind of a visitor in your children's lives. That's not the same as making a home for them. You'll need resources for that, same as she will.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7

No one can make you into a liar but you.

posts: 5672   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8737832
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 Spaceman (original poster new member #80138) posted at 8:42 PM on Monday, May 30th, 2022

Give her the opportunity you did not give with your affair. Tell her what your intentions are so she can plan and prepare mentally, emotionally and most importantly financially. Then accept the fall out.

Thank you - yes, I guess this has been somewhat my thinking along the lines. Truth be told, she already knows that - I tried to explain and tell that I want to give up reasonable proportion of my claim, but so far only thing my ex hears is that I want to take away the house. And I am sure she hears only that because she is so hurt by the damage I caused - anything I tell is not to be trusted. I am simply a monster in her eyes.

I do not expect kindness - there is none to give it to me. But I also can not accept total destruction. Whatever happens, fully agree on human decency giving a proper heads up.

posts: 36   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022   ·   location: Poland
id 8737833
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 Spaceman (original poster new member #80138) posted at 10:33 PM on Monday, May 30th, 2022

Jeez, can things get any worse....

Was going with kids to in the morning to visit playground and needed to pick-up some things from our house for the day. Called ex beforehand and she said that I she's home and I can pick up stuff.

Lo and behold, car of her new boyfriend was at our driveway, and they were just finishing morning coffee together. Good that kids stayed in the car... I do not know how, but I managed to keep cool and not do anything stupid or violent. Was not expecting that there will be someone staying overnights and drinking coffee in our kitchen already.

Fuck, now I understand how crimes of passion are happening. What a shitty day!

I mean my-ex is free to do what she wants, but i just got triggered to the extreme level.

Ok, now I need to take some days off to sit and think calmly, way too high level of anxiety in last couple of days.

posts: 36   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022   ·   location: Poland
id 8737840
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ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 12:11 AM on Tuesday, May 31st, 2022

I mean my-ex is free to do what she wants, but i just got triggered to the extreme level.

That's why it's better just to draw a line under it and move on. You're not going to reach a state indifference overnight, but when your mind says "my ex" instead of "my wife", I think you're going to feel like you're making progress. This isn't the outcome you wanted, but the bottom line is that you can still have a wonderful and happy life. It's just not going to be what you thought it would be.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7

No one can make you into a liar but you.

posts: 5672   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8737851
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BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 3:20 AM on Tuesday, May 31st, 2022

I'm sorry that happened to you, Spaceman. I remember waking up in a cold sweat from a nightmare that wasn't much different from what you described in your post. I'm sure it was hard to hold yourself together, but I'm glad you did for the sake of all concerned.

WW/BW

posts: 2749   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8737861
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BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 3:32 AM on Tuesday, May 31st, 2022

As far as the financials: is it really true that you can't fund a decent living environment for your kids if you give your ex the house? Could the rental properties be sold and the proceeds used to buy something sufficient for you? It doesn't have to be as luxurious as your wife's house, just large enough to house them and in a safe neighborhood that allows them to continue to attend school and see friends.

If you can't accomplish that while living modestly, I agree that there's no solution other than selling the house. But if it's just that Mom's place will be a lot more attractive than Dad's place, I would take that on the chin as the price of infidelity.

WW/BW

posts: 2749   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8737862
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 Spaceman (original poster new member #80138) posted at 7:35 AM on Tuesday, May 31st, 2022

As far as the financials: is it really true that you can't fund a decent living environment for your kids if you give your ex the house?

Realistically speaking, I would have to live in a rented place for at least couple years to be back on feet and to buy a place somewhere close to kids school/home. Plus I might have rough 2023 business-wise - have to renegotiate contract with my biggest client and it does not look good. I know that in the end I will find my way around, but the possibilities will be limited for a while and I would have to bank it all on my emergency fund, if shit happens. Not sure if I am willing to take that risk. Will talk to lawyer about deferred payment or maybe some way of refinancing that would be manageable for both of us.

Just my wife's dream was to have house and family with kids and I literally put close to all of the money I had to provide that to her. Just that timing was awful. As soon as all the works were finished (we did like 70% of all of the major works/refurbishing within two years after the discovery period; I thought that by proving her the dream house would somehow show her that I really care only about her; and forgot that you can not heal broken heart with bricks). As soon as the pavement in the drive-way was put in (literally days after that), my ex really pushed for me moving out. I think it was coincidence, but it left me with a bad taste.

Not crying about that though. Actually we did really great job together on building the house. For sure, there was arguing, but also lot of nice memories in working together on something we both really wanted. We could not believe when the house was finished - that we achieved something so impressive, a special place (for us). Not in million years, since we both come from simple, nice families (both of our mum's are teachers, btw) with way, way more modest living arrangements.

[This message edited by Spaceman at 7:37 AM, Tuesday, May 31st]

posts: 36   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2022   ·   location: Poland
id 8737880
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ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 9:24 PM on Tuesday, May 31st, 2022

I have to be honest here... yeah, you're the guy who made the marriage untenable with your cheating and it seems unfair for the betrayed party to have to pay for your transgressions. That said, there's a reason that the law doesn't take cheating into account when splitting the assets. It's because of stuff like this:

As soon as all the works were finished (we did like 70% of all of the major works/refurbishing within two years after the discovery period; I thought that by proving her the dream house would somehow show her that I really care only about her; and forgot that you can not heal broken heart with bricks). As soon as the pavement in the drive-way was put in (literally days after that), my ex really pushed for me moving out. I think it was coincidence, but it left me with a bad taste.

Now, imagine the bad taste if your former wife moves the boyfriend in and they're living in your dream house with TWO incomes while you're living in a rented shack eating Tuna Helper and how you're going to stew on that. It's this kind of enmity which is avoided when we follow due process instead of winging it because of an emotional response.

I think the wisest move would be to sell high while the market is still hot. But.. that does leave you both looking for homes in a hot market, so that might be a consideration too. If you're going to defer the sale, I would make it contingent on her living alone with the children in the home. If she moves a boyfriend or roommate in to split costs, that's defeating the purpose of the deferral. I'd probably put some language in there about income too. If she's making equal or better money than you, that also defeats the purpose of the deferral.

You fucked up your family dynamic, and it sounds like you're going to pay for that by losing your marriage. That's plenty of punishment. You needn't be reduced to living in a cardboard box in order to atone for your sins. Just be fair and follow the law. That will be clearest for everyone.

ETA: In order to start working on your feelings surrounding the loss of the "dream house", you might consider an exercise that my therapist had me working on... Imagine that you have all the resources you could possibly need and then design your home space. It can be any style and be in any place you can imagine. The more you work this creative visualization, the more you begin to see what YOUR personal likes and dislikes are. Work in great detail, getting down to furnishings, colors, and styles. Eventually, you might find yourself redesigning your real "dream home" again, and you might be surprised at how detached you've become from the old one.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 9:33 PM, Tuesday, May 31st]

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7

No one can make you into a liar but you.

posts: 5672   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8737966
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Darkness Falls ( member #27879) posted at 12:37 AM on Wednesday, June 1st, 2022

Everything that CT has said.

WS - remarried to BH but not in R

D-day 2010

posts: 6357   ·   registered: Mar. 8th, 2010   ·   location: USA
id 8737991
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