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Wayward Side :
The be kind to yourself thread


 MIgander (original poster member #71285) posted at 2:51 PM on Monday, March 7th, 2022

Yuck! I'm sorry you had to go through that.

We went to that lice nanny place and they used this heated blower to kill/stun most of the lice. Then a nasty tea tree smelling oil all over the hair after she combed the lice and nits out.

Yeah, both our hair is thick. Not sure if my hubby would do the combing for me, but I'll do it for DD.

WW Dday July 2019

posts: 656   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8721549

Bulcy ( member #74034) posted at 10:24 AM on Tuesday, March 8th, 2022

I find this thread positive to read, but have found it very difficult to post on. I have in the past seen what I thought were positive movement in me, but these were not that good or even lying to myself. I would speak with I/C and tell then I'm doing this and that, but not saying all the things I'm getting/ was getting wrong. The former I/C basically blew smoke up my arse based on what I was telling him and did not challenge this. I find it very hard to be positive at the moment

I suppose I have come to the realisation that I am not as far forward as I thought. Not the most positive realisation, but I can use this as another arse kicking exercise to keep going and to prove to BS that I can do this and can do everything necessary to become the safe partner she deserves.

WH (40's) Me. Emotional affair (2017), Physical affair (2003) and online affairs, Two physical affairs (2000). D-Day's 2003, August '17, multiple discoveries through 2018,19 and 20, and Jan 21

posts: 175   ·   registered: Mar. 12th, 2020   ·   location: UK
id 8721712

 MIgander (original poster member #71285) posted at 1:44 PM on Tuesday, March 8th, 2022

Hey Bulcy,

I hear you. It's hard for me to even post here too. That's why I'm doing it.

I didn't post about yesterday, but I am moving into trauma work with my IC. Yesterday we took an inventory (and we have more to go through tomorrow). It's left me open, raw and bleeding. Like what Brene Brown describes as "chandelier" pain- that the wounds opened, if even lightly touched will send me jumping as high as the ceiling. It was so dang hard to look at everything all together that I've been through in life. Even more difficult to hear that it was trauma and it was awful and it was THAT BAD. That was the hardest, that it was THAT BAD. I've minimized my pain over the years in order to distance myself from it, "it wasn't THAT BAD, others have it worse, I survived and that's what life is- just one thing happening to you after another. The best you can do is cope and deal with it." Then burying myself in busy-ness, attention seeking, accomplishment seeking, checking out and dissociating.

I am proud of myself for opening myself up to the trauma work. I'm proud of myself yesterday and today for being able to work and function well in my job with my insides basically shredded apart. I'm proud of myself for finally being sick and tired enough of being sick and tired and DOING something about it.

Also, last night I did another lice treatment on my hair (getting the heebie jeebies just thinking about the little buggers!) and BH combed through my hair for me and removed the nits. It really is a deep kindness that he would do that for me after everything I put him through. Very humbling to receive that level of care from him. Kinda like the whole "washing of feet" thing Jesus did. I get now why He said to Peter that if he wouldn't allow Him to wash his feet, he could have no part in Him. We really can't be in a relationship with another unless we are willing for them to care for us in our most disgusting circumstances.

I'm proud of myself for even asking BH to help me comb lice nits out of my hair. For humbling myself enough to submit to his care.

[This message edited by MIgander at 1:46 PM, Tuesday, March 8th]

WW Dday July 2019

posts: 656   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8721733

 MIgander (original poster member #71285) posted at 1:02 AM on Thursday, March 10th, 2022

Today's update:

Got diagnosed officially with PTSD today. So, it's not JUST anxiety and depression. It's PTSD from the way I was raised and the accumulation of all the abuse and absolute shit I have been through. Sigh.

There's this weird societal concept that I've run into that if you have anxiety and/or depression that you're supposed to "recover" and "pull yourself out of it." Therapy, meds, breathing exercises, journals. Apply them correctly, work hard enough on the "problem" and you'll recover. Depression will disappear and anxiety will fade to the normal level of BS we have to deal with as humans living in an imperfect world. And if it doesn't it's because you're either weak, lazy, CRAZY crazy or just putting on a show for attention. Slut shaming on a mental health level. Hell, discussing my post partum depression with my cousins earned me a rebuke from my mom-in-law: "You can't talk about things like that- people will think you're crazy!" Like no shit Sherlock, I WAS crazy. duh

It's almost like we shame people like me that go in and out of depression and anxiety. Like, "Gee, you must not be really working hard enough- it's been X years that you've been in therapy, aren't you done yet?" BH even is disappointed it's taken this long for me to even begin the trauma work. Like, "It's been over 2 years now you've been in therapy. When is it going to be my turn? When are you going to get better?" Not angry at me for not doing enough work, but getting weary with the fact that I've been unwell so long and have so much more to do to get better and be the cheerful companion he wants me to be.

With PTSD though, it's expected never to fully leave. Veterans coming home from war now are expected to have to "manage" their symptoms (similarly to the way depression and anxiety are managed). Only, they're not expected to ever get "cured," rather attain a level of "high functioning." In a way, despite all the prejudice and crap and lack of support we throw at them, they at least get the cold comfort of not being expected to make their trauma disappear.

Anyway, having a formal PTSD diagnosis helps me to be kinder to myself. I am giving myself permission to not have to ever be "cured." I'm giving myself permission to treat myself with compassion and accept what I am capable of doing at a certain point in time with the energy I have to do it. I'm more open to believing I don't have to prove myself to myself now. Or prove myself to others or please others by forcing myself to meet their expectations. And then shaming myself when I fail to meet theirs.

So that's it for today. Lots more to ruminate over and unpack. At least going forward, I have better framing.

WW Dday July 2019

posts: 656   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8722142

 MIgander (original poster member #71285) posted at 2:59 AM on Friday, March 11th, 2022

For today:

I went to choir for the first time in a while. Between being sick, out of town and on my period or watching kids while hubby had a night out, I hadnt been in a month. Found out I can still sing laugh and sight read pretty well. Its nice using skills that have become a little rusty. And being with others who share an interest.

I took the dog for a walk with my daughter this afternoon and got to chat with her about her friends and interests. Really blessed to have such a confident young girl for a daughter.

Also, got a lot of cooking done. Made cookies with my girl, made hardboiled eggs, salad and dinner. Its good to be able feel more like myself and have some energy again. Bouncing back a bit.

WW Dday July 2019

posts: 656   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8722384

 MIgander (original poster member #71285) posted at 3:12 PM on Monday, March 14th, 2022

Was pretty busy over the weekend, and actually had a great one!

Friday: I'm pleased that I got a chance to actually unwind and hang out with BH and DS. I'm pleased I was able to loosen up and go with the flow. I'm also pleased I tried a bit of "gummies" with CBD for calming and got out of my months long anxiety attack I've been in. It knocked something loose in me and allowed me to open up to BH again in really positive ways. I'm glad I have a new coping mechanism for emergencies when I'm in an extended shame spiral.

Saturday: I'm pleased that I was able to take a day off to myself. I rested, and really didn't do much. We went to dinner at a nice restaurant, I was able to dress up and look good for BH and the kids got a chance to practice their manners. I made sure the restaurant had open tables for us too, which worked out well.

Sunday: Worked my butt off in the basement doing plaster work on the ceiling while BH worked on trim. We're redoing it. BH has done the lion's share of work on this, with me assisting at various points. His shoulder is pretty busted, so doing sanding and spackling on the ceiling is rough on him. I've been doing a good portion of it (he does the big mudding of seams) to take the load off him. Was glad we were able to work together and enjoy listening to music on the way. Cooked BH a really nice steak and some asparagus last night too.

Today: actually getting a project done that I've been procrastinating on for a while... in fact, I need to get back to that :)

WW Dday July 2019

posts: 656   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8723108

 MIgander (original poster member #71285) posted at 3:40 PM on Wednesday, March 16th, 2022

So, yesterday was a good one. Got off my behind and worked out for the first time in 2mos. I don't think I'm ever taking that much time off from taking care of my physical health again!

Also, called doctors and scheduled appointments, sold something on Craigslist and got the kids' homework done.

WW Dday July 2019

posts: 656   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8723557

 MIgander (original poster member #71285) posted at 8:17 PM on Wednesday, March 16th, 2022

For today, I figured out why I became defensive with BH over a money matter.

I acted independently of him to schedule consultations with doctors for a boob job. I'm tired of hating my boobs, and since diet and exercise aren't going to fix them, I'm fixing me. We can go on a long tangent about body positivity and how beauty is from within... I get that too. It's more a confidence thing for me right now.

ANYWAY... To get quotes, and I've run some automotive program launches, so, you don't go with the first one, no matter how much you like the company. I'm getting 3 more consults with 3 different doctors. If one of them fits too and can do it for less money... good. To schedule the consults, these doctors want a deposit. They don't want time wasters. Of the three, 2 of them give you credit towards a spa service (facial, botox, etc) if you don't go with them for surgery, so it's not wasted. One of them will apply it to your surgery, but you lose it as they don't have a spa business attached to their practice.

Since I could potentially save a few thousand $$, I went ahead and scheduled 3 doctor consultations to the tune of $150 reusable and $100 forfeited. $250 total out of the several thousand $$ pot to get the surgery. I did this without directly consulting with BH, as we had discussed funds the night before and confirmed the allocated amount for the surgery.

I acted independently as I saw the money allocated, my responsibility to run this "program" and saw the quoting activity as a worthwhile expense to save thousands via spending hundreds. When I called these offices, to reserve the spots for the consults, I had to pony up then. I did it without saying, "let me call you back, I have to ask my husband."

BH had a problem with this when he came home. He saw it as us not being a team and him wanting to be consulted and made part of the decision. He felt it unfair that I went ahead and spent $250 on top of the clothes and home decor I purchased last week (even though I consulted with him on those purchases). He is afraid the spending is uncontrolled and that we're blowing through cash. He's afraid he won't have enough $$ for his watch. He, panicked, yelled, "Where is this money coming from? You're going to have to give up getting a present for your nephew and we're going to have to find somewhere else to buy my cousin a bottle of wine for our dinner at their house this weekend!!" He went on with: "I have worked so hard to stop my spending and sacrificed so much of what I wanted. Only now it's not fair because you just get to go and spend however you want!"

What I was hearing was, "I'm not in control! I don't trust you to make wise financial decisions on your own without me! I don't respect you!!! You have to put each and every purchase in front of me before I can feel safe!!!" Also heard, "It was ok when I never asked you about all my reloading tools, all my camo/hunting gear purchases and multiple gun purchases and expensive trips over the years. I expect you to review every dime you spend with me and I will CRITICIZE and belittle you about everything and demean your autonomy as an adult!!! You are not to be trusted as an adult capable of rational judgement. I am the only one in this relationship capable of making rational decisions!!"

I felt treated like a child and disrespected. Like my dad belittling my mom and myself. And my sisters deriding me for having no common sense.

I got defensive during our conversation. I tried to explain my rationale thinking, "If BH just understood what I was thinking, he'd see that I am rational and he can therefore trust me more and calm the F down." BH called my reaction defensive, so I stopped my explaining, apologized for it, and said, "I am feeling belittled right now, and am becoming defensive. My offer to explain my line of judgement is not being heard. It seems right now all you want to do is be heard. However, I'm so upset, I can't have this discussion in a positive way right now. I'm calling a timeout."

BH then got angry because I didn't have space for his anger and feeling of betrayal and unfairness (perceived financial infidelity). He was triggered because I didn't consult with him- I wasn't playing like we were a team. He also was triggered by his perception of my hypocrisy. He also was concerned because he saw a lot of money being spent to my liking with little to no discipline from him on his end.

All that I saw was me being sucked right back into that belittled, demeaned, disrespected, powerless person I was as a child. My anger came from that. My boundary in that conversation- when I feel aggressed against, and belittled, even if it's unintentional, I WILL SHUT THAT SHIT DOWN.

And I did. Even though it meant sleeping on the couch, I am proud of myself for not staying in the conversation where my BH was in a triggered state and taking it out on me in a disrespectful and demeaning manner.

I can't help but think he sees himself as a parental figure to me. My parents sucked, so anytime someone tries to "parent" me, I get snappy. That's for me to work on. However, in this instance, my husband's demeanor and choice of words were exactly like all the shitty ways he used to talk down to me that my father used toward me and my mom. NOT GOING BACK THERE.

Yay. I trust myself more. I'm understanding my values and boundaries. If someone has an issue with me, they are not allowed to bring it unless they have processed their own hurt and rage over it. I will not be the punching bag that they use to dissipate their own negative emotional energy upon. I will not be held accountable to someone in a judgmental, enraged, lashing out state. If they can come quietly and calmly with their feelings over my actions, have space to listen and willingness to understand better the mistakes on my part, then I am all for it.

Likewise, I am working on and greatly improving upon retaliation and aggressing myself when I'm feeling upset.

I do mess up. I do screw up. Often. I know when it happens. I berate myself enough for that (and I'm stopping that too). However, the more I respect myself after a mistake made, the more I'm expecting that same respect from others. I'm also getting more assertive when someone else wants to spew their emotional energy at me when I know I didn't do anything materially wrong.

I could have called BH. I made a judgement call and went ahead and did what I felt prudent. I'm proud that I respected myself enough to shut his destructive spewing down and respected him enough to sleep on the couch.

Plus, I got a lot of food for the week cooked for my diet too laugh

WW Dday July 2019

posts: 656   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8723613

DaddyDom ( member #56960) posted at 4:15 AM on Thursday, March 17th, 2022

One of the things I'm most grateful for after having done a lot of self-work, is that I no longer live as such a needy person. At the time of my affair, I had zero ability to feel good about myself. FOO traumas taught me that it was my job to please others, and that my own value as a person was based on what others thought of me. Brene Brown calls this style of living, "Hustling for your worth" and that is pretty much it in a nutshell. Every day I had to be smart and funny and creative and wonderful, not because those were good things to be, but because they got me the positive attention I needed. As long as I made sure that everyone loved me, then I had worth as a person. The second that conflict entered however, I would fry a circuit. I could not allow myself to risk angering someone else, because if I did that, then they wouldn't love me anymore. So I learned to avoid conflict and to have the compartmentalizing abilities of a diety. At the end of the day, I just kept shoving all that crap into my massive closet... pain, anger, rage, fear, disappointment... every negative emotion I had ever felt just got stuffed into that closet until it began to burst at the seams, and then one day... Boom-chakalaca! I had a breakdown so devastating that it literally broke my "soul" (for lack of a better word... My id? Ego?) into pieces that I had to then figure out how to reintegrate. I don't recommend it.

But today, life is different. I've learned to be okay with who I am, and learned that my value does and should come from me. It is very freeing, like having taken off a suit of armor. I still value the opinions of others and rely on them as a guide as to how I'm viewed by them. But now, those things are simply pieces of information to me. If there is something others don't like, then I have the opportunity to take a good look at it and try to see their point of view, and that gives me the power to either agree with them and change, or not agree with them, but now I know how they feel and can be empathetic that when we interact.

Anyway, I'm being kind to myself by removing burdens that I should have never carried in the first place, and learning that worth comes from within.

Me: WS
BS: ISurvivedSoFar
D-Day Nov '16
Status: Reconciling
"I am floored by the amount of grace and love she has shown me in choosing to stay and fight for our marriage. I took everything from her, and yet she chose to forgive me."

posts: 1269   ·   registered: Jan. 18th, 2017
id 8723692

 MIgander (original poster member #71285) posted at 4:41 PM on Monday, March 21st, 2022

Ok, this is a LONG time without a post. The past week has been hella busy and I've only just now had a chance to sit down and type things on a real keyboard.
-Thursday: can't hardly remember what I did right.
-Friday: handled my kids by myself while hubby was out on an overnight business trip. Took kids + DS's buddy out for fish & chips (ended up with fish sticks and fries at home- wait was 30-45min!). Kids had a great time and DD and I vegged on the couch. Much needed veg time. So, glad I could make sure kids were relaxed and cared for.
-Saturday: Went to cousin's house for dinner and had a great time talking with her. We talked all night and had a great conversation. I talked too much and talked over my BH (as he brought to my attention after). Not sure what I did right that day... still questioning my social skills and working out how to not be an embarrassment and hurt him while we're out with friends.
-Sunday: No good at church. Kids didn't have the ADHD meds and were squirreling all over the place competing for my attention. We were late getting there, BH ended up standing. Just me and the kids in the pew. I was correcting them in what I thought was a whisper, but it was too loud and attracting attention. BH was embarrassed by me again. Which is confusing since there were like a pack of pre-k kids doing their thing around us in the packed pews... again, I'm sitting here questioning whether I should allow myself out of the house. Kept my cool though and didn't yell at the kids. BH disappointed by kids' and my behavior.

I did manage to slip a chocolate bar to one of my friends who's in a stressed out situation. Had it in my purse for a few days looking for the opportunity to give it to her. She made room in the pew for us, which was sweet.

Later that afternoon, I went to my sister's baby boy's 1st bday and managed not to lose myself in the guilt over my inability to bring my family with me and be a more present aunt to my lovely nephews and niece. Also questioned whether I am in reality about my one sister (abuser) being unsafe to be around when she's such a good mom and aunt. But then she opened her mouth at me again and... while not critical... still a big nope on being around her on a regular basis.

AFTER THAT... hah, busy day... I met a friend for drinks that I haven't seen in a long time. We talked and talked. I think we both had a great time- she and I agreed to do that again and invite another friend. So... I'm not perfect at socializing, but I'm not completely alienating people? She did ask about me not wearing my rings... sigh. So tired of being "married" and yet not. It's my own doing, but difficult to deal with. Still with everything going on, I think I'm doing ok over all.

I was thinking a bunch about my dad's A- blatant with a family friend and in my mom's face. Another WS posted on Sammich's thread:

I am a WS. I DID cheat on my spouse, horribly so. I caused trauma so deep and so severe that it decimated my wife, AND my kids who watched Dad flit around with some woman who wasn't his wife, and often it happened right in front of their eyes. All of them had their sense of safety, of trust, of commitment, of honesty and decency and integrity... completely destroyed, by me, and it was all because I had some bullshit insecurities that I chose to handle by doing what I selfishly felt was right FOR ME at the time. They got shit on instead.

And this hit home so hard for me. It really helps me understand one of the core issues of why our family had so many issues. The other on was the 2 abortions my mom had as a young woman (high school and college). She made it very clear to us as kids (without telling me until early college about her abortions) that we were here on HER grace alone. That we were privileged to be alive as women have the right to terminate any pregnancy they choose. I'm not going to get into the whole pro-choice/pro-life thing here. This is not about politics, but my lived experience growing up with perfectionism and people pleasing. Both of which I didn't realize stemmed from my mother's own unacknowledged regret and guilt over her abortions. She made it clear we had to make positive contributions to society and do something more with our lives than being "just stay at home moms." Which left me and my sisters with the taint of unseen survivor guilt.

Basically, if your father sees women as interchangeable and expendable at his pleasure, you will see yourself as such. If you learn you're only alive by some cosmic whim that you weren't the particular baby ripped from you mom's womb (wrong place, wrong time), then you see how you yourself are expendable. Your daily existence as a child is dependent upon pleasing your parents- with achievements (mom) and being pleasing (dad) so you won't get discarded or regretted. My sisters also liked to remind me that I was an accident. My mom said I was an accident, but that they're so happy they had me. Like, we wouldn't be so happy to have you if you were a problem to us.

barf PTS frick'n D.

Anyway, just a check in here really.

WW Dday July 2019

posts: 656   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8724630

 MIgander (original poster member #71285) posted at 4:56 PM on Monday, March 21st, 2022

"Hustling for your worth" and that is pretty much it in a nutshell.

DD, this is something I am sooooo struggling with right now. My head is on a swivel right now trying to be pleasing to my BH or else he's going to leave me, not be happy, not take me to Chicago for a couples weekend I desperately want with him. I'm trying so hard to put myself out there sexually, but can't. I am overweight (a good 10lbs), boobs are flat, I BETRAYED HIM, I embarrass him at church and in front of family, every time I open my mouth and something unguarded comes out, I hurt him. Or disappoint him. It is so hard to be sexually intimate right now. I don't like my body, I don't like my personality and BH is so unhappy with me.

I'm not a good mom to my kids. BH has a hard time when they come to him with their concerns/difficulties in dealing with me. He doesn't share because he is afraid I will blow up and fall apart when I hear how bad it is. This only makes me more anxious because I'm failing my kids on a regular basis and I don't know how or what to do about it. I'm second guessing myself all the time.

How can you be open, fun, intimate and loving with someone when you're constantly on edge? I want to be physically intimate with him, but it's just so impossible right now when I know I'm a disappointment and embarrassment. I can't be myself around him right now. If I'm not the joyful companion though, he's not going to want to let me wear my rings again, not going to want to continue working on this marriage, will continue to disconnect and check out. He's basically numb is what he told me. He can't sleep in the same bed with me. He ordered me on the couch on Tuesday like a dog who pissed on his favorite rug. Our MC was shocked at the language he used with me and said, full stop, "YOU CAN'T DO THAT AGAIN." When asked if he really wanted it to work, he paused a lonnng time and said, "sure, but I'm basically numb right now."

I want to go to Chicago and surprise him with new promise rings. Only I'm too scared to because I have to discuss the expense with him and then it won't be a surprise. I don't think he will even want to wear them or feel pressured into accepting them because it will be in the store. He's not ready, and yet, I'm doing anything I can think of (giving big gifts). Except I'm beating myself up for not being physically intimate and then that gets into this spiral where I'm not and then guilty I'm not and too ashamed to be because I'm not!

Our MC said I'm not ready to be in any relationship, but here we are, we're married and we have to basically build the plane while we're flying it. BH is disconnected and disappointed because this is taking so long and he's still so unhappy. With me and with our marriage. He says he'll always love me, but he's not sure I want HIM. Natural after my affair. Only thing is, I've never been sure I'm good enough for HIM. I talked about my weight with him last night and he went right from listening mode to problem solving mode. I'm so ashamed of my weight and my inability to lose it. He said, "You could lose it in a month if you stopped eating junk (Atkin's diet) and ran more like you did when you trained for your half marathon." I just wanted him to hold me and say that he understood how hard it is to be aging and not as attractive, that he stilled loved me and still wanted sex with me regardless. I got triggered by his "fix it" mode and was hurt and we had to stop the discussion. We weren't following our dialogue script from MC at that point. Another failed conversation and another reason for him to disconnect.

He doesn't feel like he can be open with me as I'm so easily triggered. When he's unguarded, I get hurt too. We're a big pile of triggers, triggering each other. It is so damn hard sometimes.

Yeah, I'm insane.

I may take one of my gummies tonight to get over this anxiety.

I hate my life. I love it when I look at all the beauty and joy I have in my kids, my home, my career, the friends I'm reaching out to again, my dog, my garden. It's just so hard when my failing marriage is in my face and all I see on my BH's face when he looks at me is hurt and disappointment. I'm so discouraged.

ETA: If that's all not bad enough, BH wants another baby. Says, "I'd like to have another baby like our friend did by the time I'm 42." No mention of me. He'll have to reverse his vasectomy to do it. Meanwhile, I'm having hotflashes whenever my cycle is near ending, my cycles are starting to become different lengths. My family does menopause around 43. I'm perimenopausal. If we are expecting to have another baby (WHICH WE ARE NOT READY FOR), I may no longer be able to provide him with one.

Another disappointment waiting to happen with him. He's going to have to D me and find another wife soon if that's what he wants. His BF divorced his first wife after she cheated on him (and he slept with her sister as a ONS RA). He remarried his current wife who is 17yrs younger than him and has 2 children by her. He's got a new lease on life. It's very appealing to my BH.

[This message edited by MIgander at 5:00 PM, Monday, March 21st]

WW Dday July 2019

posts: 656   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8724636

 MIgander (original poster member #71285) posted at 1:04 AM on Friday, March 25th, 2022

Not much new to report, it was a tough week.

Tuesday: Don't even remember what happened, must be good since if it was bad, I would have remembered it?
Wednesday: Good day- glad I got to go in to work and get a lot of stuff done in the lab. Saw a lot of my coworkers and got to talk about current and future projects. I like the people I work with now and I like the work we're doing. I'm competent at my job and enjoy it.
Thursday: Had MC today. Was fully honest with BH about the state of our M the past 8ish years since the vasectomy. Told him how I felt it was dead sacramentally after that time. He wonders if I actually liked him at all during the following years. Told him the truth- there were times I did. Mostly no. Told him that I didn't want the marriage to be dead, but didn't have any hope of it coming back together once he ditched me at the first round of MC. He called me on that- said if you didn't want it dead, how come you had your A? I told him that I wanted it truly dead when he was in his emotional A with our friend D. At that time, I knew that it was truly dead with no hope of resurrection- I was to be a good wife and make myself more like Deliah so he could be happy in our M.

I still get mad thinking of it. If you wanted HER so much, then go and fucking marry her mad .

We talked some more about why I fought him so much on how we would do the childrearing and finances. He said his example was so much better than mine (and it was) that he was confused as to why I would fight him on it. I told him that I had left my family (shitty as they were, they were my family), I had ditched my friends and joined his family. I felt like he never left his parents and cleaved to me. I felt like his parents were running our M. Whenever his mom or dad gave advice, that's what we would do. Anything I tried to put in on the way MY LIFE was going to go, well, they knew better, so that's what we're going to do. Parenting and finances.

I felt invisible, non-existent. That I had to model myself completely after them so I could have a place at their table.

During session, I told him one of the first nails in the coffin of the sacramentality was the way he refused to stick up for me with his mom. Whether or not he agreed with her "advice" (CRITICISM), he needed to set a boundary, "Thanks mom for the advice, I'll take it into consideration. WS is doing the best she knows to be a good wife/mother. I appreciate your thoughts, however, it is our marriage and she is my wife and we will decide these things together." BOUNDARIES. The whole, "leave mother and father and cleave to the wife" thing never really happened. Instead of speaking up about it in a healthy way, I screamed and got resentful.

The final straw for the sacramentality of our M was the vasectomy. His dad was pushing BH to get one like he did. The reasons were good (my PPD, my inability to handle stress of being home alone with the kids). The reasons I gave against it, like, it violates the terms of the SACRAMENT we married into... belittled as it was, "what's best for the family" and since BH knew it was so hard on me not being able to be touched let alone have sex, for 1.5yrs, if I wanted to have a tolerable M, it was the best thing for everyone. Again, he listened to his parents' advice over my wishes and against the terms of the M we agreed to. You know, the Catholic SACRAMENT.

5yrs into the M, it was dead sacramentally in my mind. Once his EA started with Deliah, I lost hope for renewing it and decided to have my A instead. barf

All that to say, it is easier for me to look at what BH was doing wrong than what I was. I did not know how to parent, didn't have practice managing money (but I do have good ideas on managing cash flow...). Was not disciplined (ADHD) and an unstable, emotional mess (PPD). I wanted to have more kids to prove to BH that I was a worthy Catholic wife. Not because I loved them and wanted to cherish them. I mean, I do love and cherish the ones I have, but I wanted more so I could PROVE to BH that I brought something into the marriage.

BH brought up to me about the disagreeing and fighting all the time: "I had a good example, and you didn't, so why didn't you just go along and do what we recommended?" I told him that I felt like I had lost my family and friends, had no family money or good example or experience. That all I could offer was myself. He said, "then why weren't you just grateful that we wanted you?"

How can someone be grateful when they've just been told that they had brought nothing of real value into the marriage? To me, it feels like a master telling a servant they should be grateful for what their superiors grant them while they're busy scrubbing toilets, changing diapers, cooking, cleaning and schlepping. "Just do it my way and be grateful I told you the right way to do it."

BH hates how we can have a good day and then a bad one the next. He says that there's so much negativity that just wells up. He can't trust the positivity because there's always another thing to be upset about.

Wow, basically, I hate myself to the point where I don't believe that just my own self will be enough for anyone- especially someone who has good health, good looks, good family and money. And that's what made POS AP so appealing. Sure I could be enough for HIM- all he wanted was to have sex with me and get ego kibbles anyway. barf

Yeah, I'm upset. I'm upset because I feel like I've been in the backseat of my M while my MIL and FIL are driving. I've been told that when I want to drive that I'm not going the direction/speed/road they want and that I should be grateful for them telling me how to run my life.

I'm not a humble person. If I was, then I would be able to honestly accept that I didn't know how to run my life. It's just, I've been told and shown and had it imprinted on me so hard that I am worthless, less than, inferior, stupid, weird, fat, ugly... unimportant, not worth being cared for, on my own and alone... All this by my father, mother and 2 sisters. How the hell am I supposed to respect BH's parents when my own were not worthy of respect? To me, anyone who outwardly had it all together were lying phonies. FIL and MIL must have been too- they were just better than my parents at hiding things.

Something really hit me tonight that BH is starting to understand the depth of the damage my childhood did to me. Something I didn't think he ever really, viscerally understood without me having to tell him. He was looking at a photo album from his senior spring break in Portugal. He was so young and carefree in the pictures. I commented, "wow- you looked so young and carefree." He said, "yeah, I was. Truly happy and carefree. I don't think you've ever had a day in your life that was carefree, did you?" "No, I didn't"

And now I'm crying. Anyway, it's a long road and been a hard one.

Does it ever get any easier?

WW Dday July 2019

posts: 656   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8725561

 MIgander (original poster member #71285) posted at 2:18 AM on Friday, March 25th, 2022

BH and I had a good discussion about feeling loved.

He said, "I never heard you say- go ahead and buy that XYZ, you're worth it. Or- you know those ABC's you've been wanting, go ahead and treat yourself!" He's been connecting his worth and value in my eyes to the gifts I would permit or purchase for him. It's like he's been deaf to hearing me say he's worth it in other ways... ways like,

-Go ahead and hang out with your friends all Saturday night, you're worth it.
-Go ahead and rest on the couch while I clean the kitchen/house/whatever, you're worth it.
-Go ahead and go hunting for the week with your friends, I'll watch the kids, you're worth it.

Instead the money was so tight, all I could hear was, "If you really loved me and wanted me to love you in return and be grateful to you for once, you'll let me buy this!" sad

WW Dday July 2019

posts: 656   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8725588

 MIgander (original poster member #71285) posted at 4:44 PM on Monday, March 28th, 2022

BUSY weekend.

Friday daddy-daughter dance for BH and DD. DS and I hung out, but he was sick, so I made food for us and we relaxed by reading our story together. I've always read to my kids before bed. We've been finding books lately that I like too (Rick Riordan is a riot!) and we bond together over it. DS and I share the Wings of Fire series too. I've had good discussions with both kids this way and it helps me relax too.

Saturday: DD's sleepover BDay party with a pack of 10 year old girls!!! BH went out with his buddies that evening, DS was sick in our room upstairs and it was just me managing to make sure the energy of the tribe didn't knock our house down laugh . We have a trampoline, so that helped. That and my dog. She got chased around and played with and loved on so much she was basically down for the count all of Sunday. Girls had a great time, daughter loved her party and everyone remained safe, fed and happy :).

Sunday: we were all POOPED. I got off my butt though and helped BH with drywall in the basement, went to the mall to look at pants for him (kids are old enough to stay home) and have some fun time with him cleaning out our bathroom and closet. Good quality time and really relaxed together.

Today: Had a really good talk about boundaries. It was a difficult discussion and we were both hurting. This whole situation I've put us in SUCKS!! However, even though BH was depressed about it, I pointed out that we were civil, didn't raise our voices, acknowledged each others feelings and came through with a better understanding of each other. This never would have happened in our early marriage! So, success there, even with the suckage.

WW Dday July 2019

posts: 656   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8726395

Want2BHappyAgain ( member #45088) posted at 5:09 PM on Tuesday, April 26th, 2022

I know this thread was meant for Lent...but it is a pretty cool thread for EVERY day smile .

KINDNESS. That word makes me HAPPY smile . There are so many ways that people can be cruel in this world...but KINDNESS brings us back our humanity! In the Catholic devotional...The Word Among Us...for was about the early Church in the book of Acts. Believers from ALL backgrounds...became a community of ONE heart and mind. No one claimed ANY possession of their own. There was not ONE needy person among them because everyone sold what they had and put it together...and things were distributed to each according to their need. What a CONCEPT grin !!

That is NOT how things are today...strife is everywhere. BUT...when ONE of us shows is like a ripple in the water...getting larger and more encompassing smile . It truly is more BLESSED to give than to receive grin !!! For ME...the kindest thing I ever did to myself was to show my H kindness smile .

I was so much in DESPAIR after my H confessed about his A crying . I wanted VENGEANCE!!! Of course...I called it JUSTICE! But there really isn't any justice a person can get when something that damages their soul like this type of betrayal happens. I thought of MANY things to do to "get justice" from my H...and the adultery co-conspirator...for what THEY did to ME. Some were quite cruel themselves and it was pretty shocking for me to think I could even come up with these horrendous thoughts shocked !! This was going NOWHERE except to put me into a negative headspace even more than what I was already in.

I used to say often...when someone would do something to cut me off in traffic for instance...that "Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord". I knew that God knew WHY these people did me this injustice of cutting me off in traffic...and it could have been legitimate. They maybe didn't see me...or they had an emergency...or their mind was on something that prevented them from thinking clearly. It could have also been because they were just selfish and felt entitled. Whatever the reason...GOD KNEW. Since HE KNEW...HE would also take care of the vengeance IF it was indeed warranted. That USED to be enough for ME smile .

But THIS...this HORRIBLY STUPID A that destroyed OUR precious warranted VENGEANCE!!! God wasn't giving His vengeance fast enough for me though...I wanted it NOW!!! I lost my faith because of this. I lost my positivity because of this. I almost took my own life because of this crying .

Slowly but surely I was able to get out of that really DARK place I was in...and work my way back toward what Jesus taught us smile . Love your enemies...pray for those who HURT you. Those were words I had heard all of my life...but they were so HARD to do when the A was brought to light. Jesus could live out these words here on earth because HE was God. He KNEW the outcome. I didn't even know if I was going to stay in my M!! But IF I say I am a Christian...and don't LIVE it the way Christ taught I REALLY a Christian?

My H was fighting every day for US. I wasn't. I saw THEM as MY enemy. But over time I came to believe that I had to TRY Jesus' way. What else did I have to lose? It was hard to give my H I started with baby steps. He lapped it up like a sponge to water smile . It didn't matter how little kindness I showed him...he grabbed a hold of it and kept on going.

Over heart became lighter smile . It became easier to be kind to HIM because it truly did make ME feel better! Praying FOR the adultery co-conspirator...that was a little harder. I wrote some pretty mean things about her on here. They were true...but they weren't kind. I started making it a point to NOT do that. I still slip up every now and then...but being kind to HER also helps ME smile .

It seems counter intuitive...but for works smile . Being kind to OTHERS helps bring kindness back to ME grin ! I think I will be kind to me today...and write a kind text to my H now!!

A "perfect marriage" is just two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other.

With God ALL things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

I AM happy again...It CAN happen!!!

From respect comes great love...sassylee

posts: 6035   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2014   ·   location: Southeastern United States
id 8732073

 MIgander (original poster member #71285) posted at 4:48 PM on Thursday, April 28th, 2022

Whatever the reason...GOD KNEW. Since HE KNEW...HE would also take care of the vengeance IF it was indeed warranted

. Thanks for this W2BHA. It is His and He will do things His way in His time. His ideas are so much bigger than mine, I just have to trust it. Hard to do when I'm vain about my intelligence laugh .

Being kind to BH... that has been hard lately, mainly because I feel like I don't really get much in return. Which is a shitty way of thinking since, really, am I just a mercenary in my motivations? That's not real love.

I listened to a talk today from a woman talking about making yourself happy within your self. She likened it to building a house. She said if you lay your foundations and build your home plans around what other people want, you will never be at home in your self. When these people hurt you, betray you or leave you, they'll destroy YOUR home or take it away from you. That, by being so external in building your happiness, you give the keys of your life over to other people. That's too much power for them and manipulative of us to do to them. As in, "I want to feel good today, so I'm going to MAKE you feel good and just bask in that reflected emotion." And when your people pleasing fails to please them, you sit there pouting, hurting, feeling not good enough and rejected as a person by them. When really, their reaction to your manipulations was really on them.

I wonder if that's what Jesus meant when he spoke of the house built on sand. Of laying your foundations and hopes outside of yourself and your relationship to God. That storms from without will destroy the life you've built if you build your life on the pleasing of others. Even with a strong foundation on your relationship with God and yourself, the house attached to it can still be leveled by the worst of disasters (an A for instance), but that you can rebuild it that much quicker, knowing you have good footings still and a secure foundation to rebuild from.

I've built my house on sand. I people please and expect things in return. A lot of times my "kindness" is calculated to manipulate my BH into staying and not leaving. My foundational relationship with God is full of cracks. I don't even know how to order the rooms in my head and heart when I do rebuild.

I think I've been discouraged lately because I am learning more about who I am and learning that I may be very different moving forward. I'm scared though that the changes I'm making in me may make me incompatible with my husband. That we may D because he can't go on living with me. That not only did I betray him with the A, but that I did some sort of bait and switch from the woman he thought he married to the woman I actually am. These are the stories in my head, and likely not reality, but they keep me in fear.

I need a new story, one where I'm not living in fear of being the person I am. Having the security to step off the boat and live my life as the person I am, not the person others want me to be.

WW Dday July 2019

posts: 656   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8732488

 MIgander (original poster member #71285) posted at 7:46 PM on Friday, April 29th, 2022

Really proud of myself today. I was able to discuss my feelings of frustration with BH. He hasn't been doing reading, has only been seeing his IC maybe once a month for the past 2 months (sometimes we were out of town, other times he didn't bother rescheduling). I was able to express to him how I felt alone and frustrated at working so hard on myself and on us, but not feeling like the same level of commitment to improvement was being shown. BH has been distracting himself heavily with instagram, a escalating texts with J from his work (she's in another company now), going out with his friends more (actually a good thing) and starving himself to get thin again. He also wants to move houses as our house has too many bad memories for him (VERY understandable).

In short, he's distracting himself with all these external self-soothing techniques and not going inward to deal with his pain. MC session yesterday, his IC called him out on this (his IC is also our MC, my IC works alongside him in the practice). How BH externalizes the responsibility for soothing his negative feelings on to other people. BH didn't like that and picked a fight about it later. MC called him on that pattern too! BH baits the hook, I take it and then, suddenly, he's not having to deal with his negativity but gets to focus on my negative reaction.

Except, I'm getting better at not falling for it. (Which is where being kind to myself is coming in.) I'm getting better at telling him how I feel without putting it on him. Getting better on understanding the differences between a "me" problem, a "we" problem and a "he" problem. Also starting to see that, although I don't have responsibility for dispelling his negative emotions, I can help manage my behavior in situations where they arise. Not because I have to (in his mind) but because I want to out of love for him. I think that the demanding aspect of his externalizing on to me killed any desire or ability to freely give to him as it was always demanded with an angry face, one hand thrust out and the other pointing accusingly at me.

It's also freeing too to be able to talk myself out of thinking a friend cancelling coming to our house was because she didn't want to see me. Was able to say instead, of course she'd like to see me. She invited me out to coffee recently to catch up.

Also with the Chicago trip- I was able to talk myself out of "it wasn't a good trip because BH was so negative about it), and find satisfaction in how I was able to plan and execute it so well instead.

So, all good things and good progress!

WW Dday July 2019

posts: 656   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8732760

ff4152 ( member #55404) posted at 5:19 PM on Saturday, May 14th, 2022

Today has been a good day thus far. Class was amazing and I’m feeling great.


posts: 1927   ·   registered: Sep. 30th, 2016
id 8735317

 MIgander (original poster member #71285) posted at 4:43 PM on Tuesday, May 17th, 2022

I'm having a hard time being kind to myself today. I've been struggling lately with my body image. BH has criticized me quite a bit over the years- about my behaviors, attitudes and actions. Sure, those needed to be fixed. He's also criticized me quite a bit about my weight, hair, clothes, flat boobs, bit of extra weight and wide calves. He's also not great at balancing that out with positivity. Before or after my A.

The following is a cry of pain, anger and hurt. Really more of what the "evil hamster" on my mental wheel is doing. He gets pretty active when triggered...

Lately he expressed, when I was talking about a brand of "comfortable" heels I wanted to try out, that he didn't think I should wear high heels as they made my calves look too wide. That it wouldn't look like the girls in the instagram photos. He's expressed how much he likes high heels in the past. Can't win. Also, I have an athletic body- I build muscle before I drop pounds. Ran a fucking half marathon at a 9min mile pace. Pretty damn hot and powerful if you ask me. His problem if he doesn't like women with strong healthy bodies. That's on him. Fuck him and the insta posts he rode in on.

Also, I'm getting my breast surgery next Monday. I've wanted to do this for a while. I don't expect it to cure my body image over night, but it will boost my confidence. After breastfeeding... well, nothing's the same after breastfeeding! laugh Anyway, BH expressed again recently that he doesn't want me getting them done, that he likes my breasts just the way they are.
I'm calling BULLSHIT because he has only been saying this since I scheduled my breast surgery. He's had 12 YEARS to be appreciative of the little boobs that could! And boy... I made enough for twins. Literally shocked . Like, where did that come from?? And after I was done feeding... where did they go???? laugh shocked

When we discussed how big I should go, he wants bigger the better and wants me to get a breast lift (I did ask his opinion). I don't want them looking obvious, so I'm not getting a lift and I'm not going stupid huge. Backfilling what I lost after breastfeeding was the goal. Hah, kind of a restoration surgery. rolleyes

Anyway, he told me he's not sure I should get the surgery, because if I'm hoping for his approval, he may not like the results. He does regret and is sorry for all the negative comparisons and criticisms he leveled at me in the past. He's made it more of a point to say nice things about my body when we're being intimate. It's just been the past month or so, so it's hard for me to take it seriously. I'm wondering if it comes from a place of guilt, like he's trying to assuage the shame he feels about the extent of damage his comments have done over the years. The comments are appreciated, just, well, it's like he has to force them out! My non-evil-hamster brain says, "Objectively he's trying. He had NO example from his dad on how to treat a woman with warmth and affection, so... yeah, he sucks at it and needs practice- give him a break."

Part of me wonders (and accepts) that I'm doing this for my own confidence AND as a physical reminder to him of the consequences of "expressing my opinions" and "being honest" and, "well, do you want me to be like your mom's husband and just tell you everything is great like he does?"

Sometimes I get so enraged when he says that, like, "FUCK YOU! Would it be so hard to be positive and kind and gentle? You can still have your problems with me, I'd rather you tell me than stew, but DAMN! Is it SO FUCKING UNREASONABLE TO WANT A MAN TO APPRECIATE AND ACCEPT YOU???!? ESPECIALLY after I SACRIFICED MY BODY to GROW AND NURTURE YOUR CHILDREN."

Tip for men out there- shut your mouth when your wife's body changes after she performs the miracle of growing and nurturing and entirely new life. Have some respect and gratitude for the babies your wife gives you. It comes at great sacrifice and great pain. Any negative comments out of your mouth (aside from cases of gross obesity and concern for their health) are just entitled whining.

Yeah, H, you might like tight little titties more than my sagging ones, but those little titties didn't feed your children. Those little titties didn't stretch their body to the limit to bear your child. Those little titties didn't spend years of sleepless nights feeding, cleaning, rocking, soothing, loving YOUR child.

H needs to continue to work on having some fucking gratitude and consideration. Maybe then I'll feel more comfortable sharing my body with him. Right now, it's few and far between where I want sex and feel comfortable letting myself go. We had a great week last week, but all his comments this week have me deeply triggered.

With that said, *deep breath*, I'm so fucking amazed at myself that I was able to grow, bear and feed 2 beautiful and healthy children with such great ease. That my body was capable of naturally squeezing a pot roast out of a cheerio with a safe delivery. That my body was able to recover in less than a year each time. That, approaching menopause, I'm still running, gardening, cooking, walking, playing with kids and doing it all in good health.

Fucking entitled men and their fucking instagram. mad

Rant over grin

WW Dday July 2019

posts: 656   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8735702

DaddyDom ( member #56960) posted at 8:08 PM on Tuesday, May 17th, 2022


Honestly MIGander, I don't feel as though that's a "trigger issue" on your end, it sounds more like something any reasonable person would be upset over. Of course, I only have your side of the story, etc. However, if what you say is true, then I personally consider his comments and actions to be abusive and mean. I don't know how else to take it. No one should have to put up with being compared to models and then be told they are lacking by comparison. There is nothing loving, supportive or empathetic in his comments towards you. And yeah, I get the whole "he was betrayed and so he's hurt and angry and reacting" and that's all fine, however, there are limits. It's one thing to say, "I'm angry. You hurt me. The thought of being with you disgusts me." Those are feelings, they are expressions of emotions and thoughts. But insulting you and your body? No sir. Not okay.

My wife found me disgusting too, and told me so, but not in concrete, hurtful terms such as your husband. She never insulted my manhood, my weight, my looks, my intelligence, or my value as a person in any way. She only addressed the hurtful things that I had done to her (and others), and even pointed out the ways in which I had hurt myself in the process. And she told me how those things made her feel. She was disgusted by what I did, not by who I am.

It's one thing to tell another person that you don't find them attractive. It's another to base those feelings on physical attributes, especially when compared to "impossible beauty standards". Life isn't a beauty pageant. If he can't get it up unless the other person looks like a supermodel than that's his defect, not yours. He has every right and reason to find you unattractive because you betrayed him. Shame on you in that case. But he doesn't like your legs look in heels, or needs Dolly Parton breasts to find you attractive? Shame on him. Maybe his calves will look better in heels? Maybe Heidi Klum will knock on his door and throw herself at him?

Oh, and I'll add that it's also another thing to tell people hard news about their physical attributes, but in their best interests. For example, "I think you look great, but I'm a little worried that your weight might affect your health, and I've noticed it's already affecting your energy levels. So maybe we can eat a little healthier...?"

I don't have any advice for you other than... don't put up with that shit. And don't let it sink into your head either. WS's suffer from a lack of self-love in the first place, there is no need to add fuel to that fire. If he can't say something nice or supportive, then he should not say anything at all.

Me: WS
BS: ISurvivedSoFar
D-Day Nov '16
Status: Reconciling
"I am floored by the amount of grace and love she has shown me in choosing to stay and fight for our marriage. I took everything from her, and yet she chose to forgive me."

posts: 1269   ·   registered: Jan. 18th, 2017
id 8735742
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