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Wayward Side :
The be kind to yourself thread


 MIgander (original poster member #71285) posted at 4:16 PM on Monday, July 11th, 2022

Hi WanttoBeHappy! Thanks so much for contributing to this thread- it means alot to me that something helpful can come from this shit show I've unleashed.

My H told me this morning that I blame myself for things that are not even in my control. When he said this...I thought about this thread. We are dealing with a family issue that was made worse when Hurricane Ida hit. I pray every morning for God to USE me to HELP others...but it seems that the more I try to help in this issue...the worse things get sad . I have had to back off...which makes me feel like a failure. My H reminded me this morning that MAYBE what is happening is meant for someone else to step in and help. I never thought about it that way before.

YES! I used to think that if I didn't do it, no one would. Instead, it is important to hand off and delegate the work that can be delegated. I'm doing that more with my kids and seeing their confidence and self sufficiency and growth. It's great! They're 10 and 12, so this is a really cool age where their personalities are developing and maturing. But, they wouldn't grow if I didn't step away and give them room to do so. There's a saying, "a mother's job is to make herself obsolete." Maybe that's our job as Christians- to hand on the faith and our life lessons to others so what we've learned can be carried on and ourselves made obsolete smile .

It's beautiful that you live in such a lovely state. I always thought LA was like another country- founded by the French and decidedly Catholic even in its geography. Michigan is a cool state too- we have so many Polish and Italian (and French history too) here that every town has a Catholic church (or 3!) in it!

My mom's side is from the New England area and they were raised WASP-y. So... there's a lot of prejudice there. Plus, mom was a hippie feminist too with her own baggage. There's a lot of pain and damage in the family. I understand where my aunt comes from, but I don't need that hostility and negativity in my life. It's lonely because I do miss the closeness I had with my aunt. It's the whole balance of forgiveness vs being open to being hurt like that again. Kind of the same thing my H is going through with me.

My H gets overwhelmed too- DDay is coming up for him and I've got my work cut out for me to make him feel like a king on it. It's a good reminder to me- I've been focused on getting back into my work (shutdown for the 4th last week) and haven't really been focused on DDay and all that it stirs up in him. Don't beat yourself up, if you never show your H your hurt, he can't show you his care. That's likely what the breakfast was for him- a chance to give you love and support. Which is good for him too! If you don't let others step up, how are they going to be able to practice love and care?

The Word Among Us is a good one- I know of several people who use that. I'm going to have to look into it. I like the Chip Gaines Living on the Edge app. There's also this gal Dr. Michelle on youtube who did a livestream book study on the Esther Annointing that I'm working through. I don't have the book yet, but I'm previewing it for a book study I'm going to start up with some gals I know this fall. We do a chapter and meet up for drinks every month and discuss the book and things it makes us think about from our life. Then we have our margaritas and chips and dips and get a bit silly too tongue . It seems like He has really been telling me to get off my ass and start the group again. I'm going to do it bi-weekly, with only one of the meetings for actual book talk, the other for us moms to just show up and blow off steam together. We usually go to the Mexican place in our town, and they have REALLY good food and REALLY big Margaritas, so, it's a perfect location laugh .

This past week I've taken a break from posting and really only read up on a few threads. It was our vacation up north and during my A season when I was texting AP during the vacation, so H was in a big stir and having a very tough time. I was having a tough time too with living with his parents for a whole week and having the constant negativity and anxiety his mom puts out along with the depressed hopeless resignation streaming from his dad. My DD actually came up to me on the day after they left and told me that her Gma bothers her too- that it's hard with all the rules. Kids are starting to pick up on the dysfunction there. His parents don't laugh or have any fun together just the 2 of them- there's no spark there. I understand she's got health issues, but... the joy in their marriage is gone. Completely. Anyway, having to deal with all the negative vibes from them and H's hurt and pain was overwhelming. I retreated into people pleasing and overwork and eventually disconnected all together on in-laws last day up there by escaping into a book. This was all very difficult for H. I ended up having an anxiety attack on our way to Mackinac Island. Was able to turn it around and had a great day with H and our friends, but I could see the toll the anxiety attack took on H.

H was disappointed as we didn't get to go to his favorite restaurant up there. I almost got defensive and pushed back on him. I stuffed it and listened to him. He could see there was something I was not saying and asked about it. I told him that I don't think it's worth bringing up as it will just sound defensive right now. What I wanted to bring up was a request I made a few days into the trip for us to leave the kids with the in-laws for a few hours and get off on our own and have a mini date. To go grab lunch at... his favorite restaurant up there! duh His lenses are distorted. I mean, he argued back with me that he didn't want to burden his parents and blah blah blah, but, if he really wanted to do the restaurant, that would have been the opportunity. It's hard to have patience sometimes with his reasoning and putting things on me when he does have agency in his life. His W was asking for time away... that she'd like to go to lunch... at his favorite spot... rolleyes This is me venting. I understand where he is and where he's coming from.

H's lenses are skewed. His FOO raised him in a negative, anxious and fear driven environment. They're very cut and dry on how they see things and have little compassion for the sins of others. As they see it, God has laid down the rules and what's wrong with you that you're not following them? I asked his cousin, my confirmation sponsor (I did RCIA), about the attitude they display. She's in the family and was practically half-raised by her aunt. She knows where I'm coming from and sees it too. She too keeps her distance and keeps things surface level with them (like I do with my aunt and mom and sisters). I asked her if it's a sin to have fear and anxiety rule your life as it can show a lack of faith and trust in His plans for us. She said, "oh, are you talking about AUNT?" I said... yeah, and she just laughed. She agreed that it is a lack of faith to have that much anxiety.

I was talking about marriage with another cousin (M H's cousin, an in-law like me and had a ringside seat like I have to the shenanigans) and mentioned that the things that drive H nuts about me are the same things that drive him nuts about his mom. I asked her if we married people who remind us of our parents because it's comfortable to us. She responded really thoughtfully that she thinks we marry people who are just enough different to be interesting, but just enough the same in the hope of healing our wounds from childhood. I thought that was a really true thought. And something H is starting to grapple with.

I've got my own anxieties and work to do on trust. I'd like to think I'm improving. Over all, with all the stress, we managed to have a lot of fun hanging out with cousins, watching kids play around on kayaks and large paddle boards, the boat and jetskis. Had a good day at a beach with more friends and a cool first trip to Mackinac for our kids exploring the island. H and I went for a few runs/ long walks and enjoyed each other's company on the boat and at the fireworks. Despite the best efforts of my MIL, we all managed to get quite tan laugh . Overall, it was a good trip.

And now I've got to actually get back to doing some work... look

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Back at it again- bantering w the younger woman. Lied about blocking phone calls and deleted texts. Carried on with her.

Nothing changes if nothing changes.

posts: 773   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8744197

DaddyDom ( member #56960) posted at 4:50 PM on Monday, July 11th, 2022

I had something interesting happen to me this week. I keep in touch with a few other WS's (I wish more would reach out). I like to "check in" now and then when I haven't heard from my peeps, and see how things are going. I know that meant a lot to me when people did the same for me in my early days.

Being a WS sucks. I'm not saying that being a BS is any better, but the BS, being the victim, often receives a lot of support and encouragement, and reminders that they are good people who didn't deserve this. WS's on the other hand, are usually reminded that they are NOT good people and that they 100% deserve this for bringing it on themselves, their spouses, their families, and everyone else. So having a kind word or gesture, even just a simple, "You are still worthy of love, and still redeemable" can mean the world to a WS that is struggling.

One of my WS friends reached out to me this week to apologize to me. He said (paraphrasing) that he now realizes that a lot of the stuff he's said to me, in emails and online, has not been completely true. That's he's covered his ass, and told lies, and so he apologized for doing so and for wasting my time with his efforts to "just say what he thinks others want to hear". The thing is, of course I knew there was more, because I've been there/done that and know what it feels like to walk in those ill-fitting wayward shoes. But what stood out to me was simply the fact that he had grown enough to do that. To realize that he lied. To see it's impact on someone other than himself. To feel badly enough about it that he had to apologize because it bothered him not to. That's something that he could not have done a year ago. And now he can. And that, in my opinon, is amazing progress. Sure, his marriage is still trouble. He TT'd a lot and some of it just came out recently. But I see the progress. I wish more WS's would make that effort.

Anyway, that's one part of the story. But the part that really made me feel good was this one... he told me that, a little while ago, he was in a really bad place mentally. He was ready to end his life, and was thinking of ways to make that happen. He was that close. And just as he was thinking about it, his phone dinged. It was an email. From me. Just checking in. "Hi how are you doing?". And he said that just getting that email (not even what I said, just the fact that I reached out for no other reason than to check on him) made all the difference in the world, and it stopped him from going further, and he instead chose to go back to working on himself.

It made me feel good because I got the chance to make a difference to someone else, and to help them also feel cared about when they needed someone, anyone, to care at all.

I wish infidelity wasn't so damn messy and painful. I'd love to put out a "hug your WS now and then" kind of PSA, but that's not really a feasible thing to do. That's why I wish more WS's would stick around and help out, because I think a lot of WS's would make it further along if they just felt as if they had some support, regardless of their wayward status. The same way an alcoholic can walk into AA and not get attacked for being a drunk.

Me: WS
BS: ISurvivedSoFar
D-Day Nov '16
Status: Reconciling
"I am floored by the amount of grace and love she has shown me in choosing to stay and fight for our marriage. I took everything from her, and yet she chose to forgive me."

posts: 1300   ·   registered: Jan. 18th, 2017
id 8744210

Want2BHappyAgain ( member #45088) posted at 6:56 PM on Monday, July 11th, 2022

MIgander...thank you for your kind and inspiring words smile .

I had to look on a map to find Mackinac Island. You mentioned y'all vacationed "up north"...and I didn't understand how much further "north" could a person go in MI look . Y'all ARE about as "north" as you can me laugh !!! Please excuse my ignorance...but I was fascinated that MI shares a border with Canada...and FOUR of the Great Lakes...very COOL grin !!! We've been to the southern part of MI before...and we absolutely LOVED our stay there smile .

I can totally relate to how your MIL sounds like the same one I have at times. I laughed when my H was describing his parents before I met them. As it turned out...they were pretty much the way he said they were...and it was a HUGE difference to how I was raised.

I am very HAPPY y'all ended up having a lovely time at the beach smile . Louisiana beaches are not at all like our wonderful neighbors along the Gulf Coast...especially when you get closer to the Mississippi River. Silt from up north flows down the Mississippi...and most of our beaches...and the water...are DARK from that rich silt we get from y'all smile . But...we wouldn't have had that land that was built up with all of the silt I won't complain. It makes for GREAT fertile soil for gardening grin !! I just wish those danged hurricanes would quit washing away all of the land that was built up throughout the centuries!! Thankfully we are only a few hours away from some really GORGEOUS beaches grin .

DaddyDom...thank you for sharing your post smile . ME...I have come to realize it doesn't matter which side of the A triangle someone is on. We should ALL be KIND to each other. RESPECT would go a long way in healing so many of us smile .

A "perfect marriage" is just two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other.

With God ALL things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

I AM happy again...It CAN happen!!!

From respect comes great love...sassylee

posts: 6170   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2014   ·   location: Southeastern United States
id 8744236

 MIgander (original poster member #71285) posted at 7:59 PM on Wednesday, July 13th, 2022

Ugh. Yesterday/today is our DDay. Yesterday we had MC which stirred BH up even more than he already is because of the 3rd antiversary. I've been on edge for the past 2 weeks doing everything I can think of to make this time better for him- asking him to lunch (vodka tonic lunch!) today- didn't go, planning a date night out at a big steak place (as a thank you for helping me through my surgery)- he's not sure he wants to now- and a bar he's really wanted to check out for quite a long time. Giving him something to distract him and build him up and give us a better memory to hopefully overwrite this shitty time of year.

Last night he was upset- saw a lot of the negative from the past years, exasperated that we're still stuck after 3 years of this (although we're vastly improved) and still so down and unhappy. He wants to be happy, he wants joyful companionship, he wants certain things (like a go-pro camera- more on that later). He's all over the place and raw and reactive (WONDER WHY! SO MAD AT MYSELF WTF). Wants my company, doesn't want my company, wants xyz, doesn't want xyz...

MC yesterday was blunt with us about allowing past hurts to hold us back. He asked us if we even knew what we enjoyed doing together. H interpreted that as "what do we pursue individually that we BOTH like" and I interpreted that as, "what activities do we find mutually pleasurable and like to do in each others' company." We couldn't list much beyond sporting clays, watching comedy shows, and restaurant outings. A lot of our 3hr argument centered around "Venn diagrams" of personal interests and what counted as "individual interests" and what didn't.

H's interpretation is that MC's advice applied only to activities that we're so interested we pursue by ourselves. Trouble is, there's several activities I stopped pursuing or VERY much curtailed over the years because of H's criticism and complete lack of money.

I used to love doing home improvement projects with him... until we were putting our only discretionary income into his basement remodels. Often times we were short on bills, but H still found money to buy guns and hunting gear and building materials.

I used to like doing clays and pheasant hunts with him... until it was associated with our financial instability.

I used to like shopping for nice clothes and purses and going out on dinner dates... until we had no money for it and H didn't like any of the clothes I thought I could afford.

The only thing I really kept for myself was running and exercising. Even then (in the years before the A), I made sure my purchase of the expensive ($150 and necessary) running shoes were tied to my birthday. That way, it was a double purpose- a way for H and kids to show appreciation/love to me and so I could pursue my interest. I wouldn't buy much for myself and tried to keep stuff for me just for gifts.

I used to enjoy working on house projects with H until... his criticism of my painting, of my color choices, my decor tastes... and on and on. I felt trapped. Like I could only do what HE wanted and that the result was more important than me as a person. And if I wanted to spend money on thrifted finds or fix up projects... he would say that they were better bought new because the fixer upper stuff looked worn and old anyway. And he didn't like my taste. That he wouldn't feel calm and relaxed in the house if I decorated it my way (valid concern). Again though, the result was more important than the person.

I used to enjoy going to concerts... until they were deemed a waste of money by H and he didn't like my choices in artists. When I would find something fun that H would like too, that was deemed too much a hassle or too expensive. So I gave it up.

I used to like playing board games with friends... until my H decided my friends (all kind and quirky people) were too nerdy and he felt embarrassed for them by some of their behaviors. They weren't cool enough, or "in our social group" because they were more blue collar and lived in less affluent neighborhoods. He felt out of place and awkward because he didn't share their interests. So I stopped going and visiting (co-dependent) as I was embarrassed to go without him (implying he didn't like them).

I used to like political discussion and debate and discussion of a variety of topics (philosophy, religion, history, culture)... until H said he wasn't interested and thought it a waste of time to discuss this stuff since people never ended up agreeing anyway, so what was the point?

I used to like talking about my interests at work with my H... until he kept telling me that he's not interested, because, "he doesn't make work his life and leaves his work at work and I should too." My work is done in an area of great interest and passion for me. Weird as it is, making sure cars are safe for people by designing them and building them to the best standard possible is important to me. Also the cool innovation stuff that comes out too. H sees work as a means to an end (and has baggage with his dad being gone so much due to corporate ladder climbing when he was a kid). I'm happy where I'm at and not really interested in climbing right now, and likely won't until kids are in college.

The kicker and deepest wound to me was the spiritual sharing. I used to like talking to H and sharing my faith journey with him... until H decided to go against our original plans and get a unilateral (and understandable and forgiven now) vasectomy. The final nail in the coffin was prayer group, where the fantastic Mrs. D became his idol of a perfect woman. He couldn't see that by comparing me negatively to her and elevating her above me was INDEED ABUSE. He was engaging in an EA attachment with a woman who in reality was a fantasy. That, combined with his hypocrisy on acting spiritual when he wasn't even caring for his first spiritual priority- his wife- and the way he shut me out... I stopped sharing or even caring and truly gave up the M (and the sacrament) as dead.

H was very negative toward my interests (he was bored/uninterested/too much bother to be enjoyable), just as I was negative towards his (couldn't afford them). We ended drifting apart- me into resentment, him into his hobbies.

I sacrificed those personal interests in favor of putting any extra energy and money I had for myself into family or couple things.

What's on me is that I didn't pursue my interests individually and push for them to be made a priority too. I thought that if I shrank myself down to the point where I didn't exist, take up too much room or intrude upon H's interests, that H would be happier in our M and others would be more fulfilled. That I could be happy because I had worked hard to MAKE them happy. CODEPENDENCY!

I lost my sense of self, resented (and had contempt for) H and was jealous of the confidence he had in going after his interests.

We don't share the same perspectives on these things. H believes that individual interests are those which you pursue by yourself, no matter what, on your own. Problem is, this is very much rooted in "I" thinking when MC pointed out we need to do more "WE" thinking. H believes this and has shown entitlement to pursue these things in times of financial hardship which have been breathtaking to me. Jeopardizing our safety and well being so he could have the next set of camo or a new gun or... or... or... H hasn't seen the level of sacrifices and deferment of enjoyment I've had over the years because I allowed his criticism, negativity and reckless use of our funds (which I enabled) to get in the way. He believes in what I see as an all-or-none way that in order for us to have a "we" we need individual interests that magically line up. That we have to be 110% into an individual interest and share that same interest or else it's not a "we" thing. He likes people that are 110% into something and refuse compromise in their interest of choice, as that is how he sees himself (perfectionism!). I am more of a 70-80% into things and don't need to attain perfection before I am satisfied in my pursuit.

For example: H is 110% into sporting clays. I'm 70% interested in it. Meaning, I wouldn't spend my budget on it by myself, but I would LOVE to go and have so much fun going with my H. I would spend my "fun money" on it if it meant I could enjoy his company during an enjoyable activity. He's not confident that it can be a we thing since I'm not as into it as he is. I asked him to take me during MC yesterday. I also asked last night if I could help him with his basement projects. He wasn't into the help in the basement because he was drained from MC and it being A season.

We argued back and forth for 2.5hrs last night over this duh .

I really don't get the big deal in us having interests that are shared unevenly, but the joy in them is increased by watching the other being in their happy place.

Not to get too gross... but... I'm not into giving head too much, but his enjoyment really increases mine blush . He doesn't seem to have too much a problem with that laugh

Either way, I feel like a lot of this black and white thinking and all or nothingness is him putting up walls again. I understand the context of the A season. His exasperation at it being 3 years and we're stuck in turn had me getting impatient with his road blocks. Like he was finding excuses for us not to enjoy things together and prophesizing that we're not going to last because we don't have too many shared interests. I pointed out that we do, but I have a lot of healing from his negativity and criticism and overall close mindedness to my contributions to do before I'm going to be 110% enthusiastic sharing them with him again. Some of that is on me- and I am working to push myself past my comfort zone in entering into activities where I've been burned before with him. I am now willing to do this for H and for my own growth.

Now for the go-pro. H wanted the go-pro for Father's Day and I took him to a restaurant for dinner instead. Even though he likes the restaurant, he would rather have had that money for the go-pro. He wanted to bond with the kids during the trip via playing with the new camera and recording with it. I'm not into electronics (like 50% to the go-pro), the kids are kinda into it, but not 110% enthusiastic. The package he wanted was the newest latest greatest most expensive one. Only one he wanted. What with other outings and costs on our trip and the fact that we did something out of the house for him on Father's Day... we spent the money elsewhere on other family bonding experiences and I did not honor him with the go-pro for Father's Day. That is on me.

I'm not proud of it, at one point towards the end of the 3hr session, I used the go-pro as an example of a thing pleasing to him that is not a "WE" thing. It was an unnecessary zinger. I saw the hurt on his face and the anger coming from it and came back later and apologized after our discussion. I don't want to be that bitter angry hurtful person anymore. I don't want to be the one putting that look on his face with completely unhelpful, non-constructive and hurtful comments. I told him this. He accepted the apology, but is still understandably distant and hurt by it today.

Looking at what lead me to get to that point of exasperation and say to hell with a time out, there's a few things. First, I felt like H was looking for reasons to discount our progress and was focusing on the negative so as to avoid being hurt again. I felt like I was being blamed for his displeasure in our M without him taking accountability for his end of things. Things like, his own filters, his own self gaslighting. I felt gaslighted when he said he'd rather have money for the go-pro than go on our date night. But then, 2min later in the discussion mention that he loves going out with his friends to exciting places and doesn't have that with me. It's maddening. I snapped. I'm sick of it. It's the same tranference, gaslighting and projecting he used to do bundled up with all the past criticisms from things I used to enjoy doing with him which HE RUINED WITH HIS OWN NEGATIVITY.

Like, how dense can you be? "I want to enjoy these activities, I feel so lonely now we don't do them." During activity: "Stop doing that! YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG! I'd rather not have your help when it means more work for me!! *yelling*" During outings with friends: "You're so awkward in your conversations! Don't you notice when people want to change the subject? It's so uncomfortable going out with you since you're so socially awkward. I can make friends with anyone and I know how to talk to everybody. I'm very good changing my interests to fit in, why can't you?" Or when we've got home from a date out to somewhere nice: "Yeah, I had a good time, but I don't really feel like I connected with you. It's hard to go drinking with you since you need to eat and that drives the costs of going out up. I'm willing to do it for you, but it makes it harder to justify going out." And another, one of my other favorites: "I do so much for you and the family, no one ever does any thing for me. For ONCE I would just like someone else take care of things so I don't always have to."

The most recent set of gaslighting shortly after I worked very hard to book 2 popular high end restaurants/ bars for our date night this Saturday: "I feel like you're not as into this as I am. I'm always the one coming up with places to go." Particularly infuriating because I am into going out with him. I do suggest places to go, but they're put down as, "not nice enough, not what I'm into, or HOUR magazine didn't rate it, OR it's not the one I just saw on Instagram." I don't often suggest stuff anymore because if it's not what HE wants, or likes, he gets upset because "I should know what he likes by now." And when I do suggest things I remember from his "cool list," he says that he's not sure he wants to go there with me (because I'm not good company or $$ or combination). We went over this several times last night- I WANT TO GO OUT WITH HIM TO BEAUTIFUL PLACES AND DRESS IN BEAUTIFUL CLOTHES AND EAT DELICIOUS FOOD. It is a shared interest. He still said he doesn't feel it is because in the past we've had bad outings (lately 80-90%% of our outings are GOOD).

I feel like I am hitting a brick wall. H admits he's building his walls higher- not just because it's A season, but because in MC I said I forgave him for about 80% of the stuff from our M. I said that as a hedge because there was something in my gut that said I didn't forgive him for everything. I forgive him for a lot of the stuff he's done, the vasectomy, the comparisons, the spending, the overwork when kids were babies and I did the SAHM thing, the stonewalling...

I think I'm holding on a bit to the finances since I've only started trusting him with it since the end of 2020. I'm not seeing much change in the pattern of entitlement there. I have learned to bring my interests to the table and make them a priority. He has listened to and invested in my interests. I have encouraged him to go get materials for his basement project and go out with his friends more often. The underlying attitude I'm still seeing is one of complaint after he does something for me, "I am doing so much for you and I don't even care about your interests." What about, "Wow, it gives me so much pleasure watching you enjoy your garden. It's great knowing how much joy and peace you got out of that. I'm patting myself on the back for a job well done." To which I would say, "Thank you so much, I love it and it means so much to me that you care enough to build these beds for me." I say that any way... but there would be a heck of a lot more warmth behind it if I heard joy and pleasure instead of inconvenience and pain from him.

I don't trust my H not to fall off the wagon on the following things:

-Overspending selfishly

-Comparing me to other women

-Inappropriate idealization of other women

-Being generous in his love for me

Overspending: He still wants a $700 wallet from LV, still wants a $400 camera, still wants $26k watches. Still feels entitled to these things, dissatisfied he doesn't have them, wants us to sock away cash for them (fine) in a time we're tight and kids need clothes and WE NEED TO FUCKING GET OUT AND EXPERIENCE LIFE TOGETHER and INVEST $$$ INTO OUR RELATIONSHIP AND NOT STUFF FOR HIM. Oh, and he wants me to get a $4000 LV purse (I'd REALLY like one... but I'm not butt hurt that I'm not going to get it anytime soon...) so that I can look "put together" for HIM. I like looking good for him. I don't like having to spend $4000 on a purse to do so though... standards high much? He wants me to do hair and highlights. I NEED it. That's a good $250 there I've sacrificed for summer vacay outings. He's asked me to go without too for budget reasons. I agree- $250 is better spent on time out for us or summer camps for our kids. He wants everything, can't have everything and is dissatisfied with what he does have and can have now. I used to be the same way. Only I've changed and he hasn't.

Comparing me to other women: HE STILL DOES THIS!!!!!! Last night he brought his vodka tonic lunch friend, J up as an example of a put together woman who is 110% interested in designer goods and goes and gets them for herself. He's admitted in the past she's got a problem- she'll spend $1200 on sunglasses just for a single concert she's going to. (The more he talks about her, the more new info I find out about- still not getting to the bottom of the extent of their EA.) Single, early 30's, lives with a much older man rent free who pays 1/2 her car and buys her shit too. She can pursue her shopping interest 110% because she doesn't have a mortgage, kids' school and a household to run. Overgrown teenager. H said that if I was really interested in luxury goods, that I would pursue it on my own. Only thing is, when there's no way to get what I want (and it's not a NEED), I stop looking so I can be more at peace with my life as it is.

H does not do this. H keeps looking and keeps ensuring his dissatisfaction by pursuing things 110% that are only obtainable in about 5 years of saving. I don't have his patience. Hence the 80% interested- I can look and ooh and ah at the LV purse, then walk into Coach and be perfectly content with the bag I found on clearance (that's similar in style to the LV) for $300. H doesn't have that level of satisfaction in a compromise that I do.

Inappropriate idealization: He STILL DOES THIS. J is on a pedestal still, so is Mrs. D. He stopped talking to J on his own, but she's still very much on his mind. He occasionally asks me if I don't mind if he asks her something. He also keeps getting texts from other people in their old friends group asking if he's heard about get-togethers she's arranging for all of them. That she hadn't heard back and was wondering if he got the invite (FLYING MONKEYS). She's still searching him out, he's still thinking about her. And comparing me to her- I'm not as put together or interested in high fashion as she is. I'm also a grown ass woman with a family to care for and others to put ahead of myself. Maybe if he talked less about her fashion sense and more about how much I do for the family, I wouldn't be so hung up on this.

I'm still not first in his affections (and wasn't before the A and certainly not after it!).

Being generous in his love for me: All the times over the years he's done something for me, only when I screw up (go-pro) to have it flung back in my face about he doesn't like all he's done for me and how he's not cared for as he deserves because I'm not doing the xyz that he wants now for him. A generous man in my mind doesn't tell the wife who took home all the cottage towels and linens to clean them (the softener was out, so washing them at the cottage was NOT in the cards), "I'm not returning the towels for you on my errand right now. It's your thing, you do it. You're the one who took them home in the first place when no one asked you to, you take them to my mom's. [insert reminder that it's 3mi away and he's going that way for an errand ANYHOW] You're causing everyone an inconvenience since I have to return the towels to my mom right now. Next time don't bring them home. You just cause more inconvenience for everyone else and my mom was confused about where everything is."

How about a generous man says, "Hey, thanks for putting the thought and effort in to show appreciation to my mom for staying at the cottage. You didn't have to wash the linens at home, my mom was planning on doing them up north once the softener was fixed. Since you did do them and put your time and energy into it though, I'm going to drive them over to mom's right now since I'm going that way anyhow."

How fucking much does it cost to be fucking appreciative of your spouse?


Ok, I'm going to get out of my own damn head now and talk to my therapist. Thanks for letting me vent. It's so hard granting H space and grace during A season. It's so hard knowing that his "negativity" is exacerbated by the stress and pain I've added to his life with MY A.

I'm so mad at myself. I really should have just kept my thoughts to myself, let H vent, hold space for him and be present for him. For some reason, I got it in my head that he needed to be corrected and that I deserve to share my thoughts too (per MC's advise on this exact dynamic). Going forward, I'm going to start the convos like this with the question, "are you looking for guidance or do you need me to listen and reflect?" sad

[This message edited by MIgander at 8:01 PM, Wednesday, July 13th]

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Back at it again- bantering w the younger woman. Lied about blocking phone calls and deleted texts. Carried on with her.

Nothing changes if nothing changes.

posts: 773   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8744555
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