SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The last time I posted I said I was leaving my WH for breaking a boundary while he was gone on a work training. I stopped communicating after stating that to him and he shaped up, and has been better. And showed me he is putting in the work as much as he can at 4.5 months. It’s been a rough 4.5 months. I’m all over the place emotionally, as expected and I feel as if I’m going crazy. I know I’m not but, damn I need a day where I don’t cry.

Anyway, I’m an obsessive thinker. Which is a problem I’m trying to work on in IC, but it’s a tough habit to break after doing it pretty much all my life. So when something bothers me…it bothers me. Like haunts me. For some reason today I decided to go down a road I know I shouldn’t but my mind wouldn’t rest. I knew or imagined most of the answers, and my imagination is worse BUT to hear the actual things I knew were true, hit me harder than expected. I asked details about the A sex. How many times a day, where, how many times in the car (he got a new one since), what things did you do new with AP, and while I was doing this I KNEW in my mind "why the hell am I doing this to myself?" I guess I’m trying to make sense of the whole situation and I need to know as much as I can to make a decision on what I’m "forgiving", but when he told me what happened in the car and how many times, I couldn’t stop thinking about the fact I was in that car for months….not knowing he had sex with another person in that car among other things. The amount of boundaries that were crossed, that HE willing and probably EAGERLY crossed. The amount of disrespect and disregard he had for me.
Up until tonight - I only received information that, it was purely physical for him and said what he needed to say to keep her around - AP thought they were "in love". He said every time he saw her they always did something sexual or had sex. Sometimes even multiple times, for seven months. That he always used viagra, was always drunk and that he didn’t enjoy the sex. Which makes no sense to me. Because his actions say differently.

A sex was probably exciting at least - it was a new person, and it was secret. And it was with someone who worshiped him. I just want an honest statement. I feel like he’s spoon feeding me shit, to make me feel better. He keeps saying over and over again "it wasn’t about AP, it was about the high of the A. I was influenced with everything I did because of the high the A gave me. AP could’ve been anyone" Doesn’t make anything better.

Idk why I’m posting this - probably pure ranting. But, the fact of the matter is - NONE of what he says adds up to me or makes sense. Hell my life right now doesn’t make sense. What I feel like makes the most sense in this whole situation, is subconsciously I think I’m trying to make myself not want to R. I don’t know why else I would willing go there, knowing it would be more damaging. Talk about some mind movies. I wouldn’t blame him if he’s going to want to end it with everything that’s been happening anyway - it’s a lot. And I’m not sure he can handle the trauma I’m trying to battle through. I am not myself anymore, I’m this new shell of a person that I don’t recognize - an angry, depressed and overly emotional person that fluctuates back and forth. I do try everyday to be different and have good days but I get too bombarded with A and then go on hyper drive with my thoughts/questions. It sucks and it’s all unfair. I’m just trying to stay afloat and trying to actually get on the boat to survive but failing miserably.

That he always used viagra, was always drunk and that he didn’t enjoy the sex.

He "didn't" enjoy it! Right. Of course he enjoyed it. That's the whole reason. Especially if he was drunk. Lowered inhibitions, more pleasure. He's STILL gaslighting you. There may be some who can truly "R", but my take is that once a cheater ALWAYS a cheater. Just like being an alcoholic. You can never go back to social imbibing. If you like the mind movies, or can handle them, then An R may be for you. You need to determine if you can live like that or start down the path of independence and a new life. The longer you wait, the longer the recovery for you. Good luck.

[This message edited by katmandude54 at 4:05 PM, Thursday, November 25th]

That he always used viagra, was always drunk and that he didn’t enjoy the sex. Which makes no sense to me. Because his actions say differently.

In the larger picture it makes perfect sense. He is a liar and he is going to lie as far as he possibly can without contradicting what he has already said, or that you know to be a fact. But he will say things that "make no sense".

Mind movies…one thing that helps in dealing with them is to change your relationship with them. A lot of people say they hate them and wish they’d go away, but really it’s the opposite. They are THE most fascinating things in the universe. Honestly, you could think about them 25 hours per day if you allowed yourself to, no? The same scenario, over and over, and then throw in a twist, or move on the next thing. What was said? What was thought?

If you recognize that a part of you loves them beyond anything else that exists, then those memories can give you permission to not think about them for a while, knowing they’re there patiently waiting to be revisited and rolled in, like a dog in cow manure.

Sending strength!

Anyway, I’m an obsessive thinker. Which is a problem I’m trying to work on in IC, but it’s a tough habit to break after doing it pretty much all my life. So when something bothers me…it bothers me. Like haunts me.

Hey, just so you know (and you already do), there are plenty of us like this out there.

I'm almost six years out, and the last 8 months without her. I'm finally getting solid blocks of sleep.

However, literally the first few years I'd wake bolt upright at 2 or so AM, pad downstairs to the back porch, and pace for hours. My mind, fresh enuf from a couple of hours of shut eye, would be churning over details, peeling back memories to re-analyze and interpret. It was like a jig saw puzzle with each little additional piece of info a puzzle piece bringing the larger picture into focus.

And I'm not just talking just about the betrayal. I'm talking about components, moments, periods of our entire marriage that I was now beginning to see in a different light. It was the process of a seismic shift in how I began to re-see the US and what I gave up of my authentic self to be married to her.

No words of wisdom here. Just sharing that you ain't weird, and that we're all better served when we own, embrace, and learn to dig the type we are.

To me -

he always used viagra, was always drunk and that he didn’t enjoy the sex.

does make some sense bc of this:

it was with someone who worshiped him.

I think many (most?) WS get kind of "hooked" on the latter (and the sense of entitlement that comes with it), but just use their handy dandy deck of rationalizations (eg, the love/soul mate stance, or the "it was just sex" stance, or whatever else comes up) to avoid owning that they were willing to forsake all to get that rush of adoration.

Of course, that may not make a hill of beans of difference to the BS, the pain of the details, and how to heal (whether R is in the cards or not).

As to getting the sexual details, IMHO that's something every BS needs to decide for themselves. I am in the want to know camp. The deets I did get, were hard to handle. I also ruminated a ton about them. Definitely not a pleasant experience. However, I guess I was able to process them, and it didn't take long before the sexual details I did know really didn't bother me (with one exception). It was the gaps and changed stories that haunted and tormented me - for a long time - and sometimes still do. So - even though I did get some details, each tidbit of info had to be painstakingly extracted, after weeks/months of "I don't remember", and even then there were holes big enough to drive a truck through.

For me, I believe it has less to do with needing to actually know what they did. Rather, I think it was my way of trying to rebuild trust - with having a sense that he will be HONEST with me, even if he knows it will hurt me to the core. That he had enough respect for me to lay it all out, raw and bare and vulnerable.

And - that's just my experience. In a weird way, if he were to tell all today, I honestly don't think I'd be that freaked out. Partly bc I've got some healing under my belt. Partly bc of time. Partly bc it would be some objective indication of his making any progress towards becoming a safe partner.

In any event, not all BS have that view of getting the sexual details. I suspect for some its bc the WS pretty quickly began to work on rebuilding trust (and stopped lying about all the other crap they did). For some it may be they came to dday in better emotional shape. For some it may be something else I'm not smart enough to think of.

My WH's LTAP was also in his car, and I don't know if they did anything sexual other than kissing/making out (I suspect they did, but doubt my WH would ever be honest about it). We got rid of that car about 6 months before dday, and it took me a LONG time to move past the anguish and rage I felt about being in that passenger seat for the decade of his LTA - even tho the car itself was long gone. Took me at least 2 years to not be pretty much full anxiety sitting in the passenger seat of the new car - that his AP was never in. I don't know why the invasion of personal space (car, home, etc) hurts so badly, given the invasion into the emotional space is the core of things. But it sure as h*ll hurt like the Dickens for me.

Good Grief I hate saying it, as I remember how much I felt hopeless when it was said to me early on, but (yeah, a "but" ) you are SO early in your healing journey. I remember feeling as if I couldn't breathe - and those were the "good" moments. I'm confident that my own healing would have come quicker had I been better at stopping the obsessive thinking. But - like you, it sounds - I was that kind of person LONG before dday. Things would get under my skin and I just could not let them go. Something about this trip through infidelity has lessened that - in all areas of life.

I wish I had a magic potion about calming that thinking, but I don't. If possible, I would try and work on it in smaller areas of my life. That person who cuts you off in traffic? I try to use some Brene Brown and repeat the "they are doing their best" mantra (vs my old habit of screaming profanities and then thinking about it for another hour! Imagine all the brain power I'd have if I'd been able to harken Dr. Brown all those years). Or the email from a boss or coworker that didn't make sense, where I'd spend hours trying to figure it out RATHER than just go ask and clear the air! Another waste of energy that could have been spent more productively - even if it was used to daydream about a vacation or nice long bath.

I am not myself anymore, I’m this new shell of a person that I don’t recognize - an angry, depressed and overly emotional person that fluctuates back and forth.

I suspect just about every BS here on SI could say the same about themselves during the early months (some even years later). Have you educated yourself about trauma? Not just infidelity - but PTSD? Have you read "the Body Keeps the Score" by Bassel Van der Kolk? It's a long book with a lot of history, but it REALLY helped me validate what was happening (vs beating myself up about why I could not seem to break through it all) and gave me a ton of hope about healing. There IS healing from PTSD. Not easy. Likely not quick. But healing nonetheless. We have to work and put energy into rewiring the brain paths that got all cattywampus from the trauma of dday. EMDR is one thing that can help (I didn't find it to be a magic bullet, but it did help on some fronts). There is trauma informed yoga. There is bioneurofeedback. There are other therapy modalities. There is incorporating joy and gratitude. Not every method works for everyone, yet IMHO, it's something to explore.

Finally, as hard as it may be, I may consider trying to think less about R and more about YOU and YOUR healing. Your thoughts about trying to talk yourself out of R, or your WH leaving bc of your trauma response, cause me to wonder if R (or fear of D) may be driving things more than your desire to HEAL. No one knows what the future will bring. I'm sure some folks are able to work on their healing AND work on R at the same time. I'm not one of them (and my WH's head being so firmly planted up his backside didn't help). The day I realized that I was going to have to heal myself and only when I had some solid trauma management would I even be able to consider R, was kind of the day I began to actually begin healing.

Godspeed.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 12:21 AM, November 26th, 2021 (Friday)]

It stinks that you're stuck dealing with this pain because of the selfish acts your WH. What you're feeling is absolutely normal. Your reality has been shattered by this betrayal and you're trying to piece it back together into something that makes sense. But the ugly truth of infidelity is that it never makes sense. It's stupid, thoughtless, cruel, and most of all, selfish.

The important thing is to consider carefully what you want. Do you want to reconcile above all else and make that path as smooth as possible? Or do you want to want to make sure that you have an absolutely clear understanding of what you're forgiving, or at least accepting, as the case may be.

My FWW and I have been happily R'd for 20 years, but I never got all my questions answered. My FWW made the process extremely painful for both of us and I eventually took our therapist's advice and rugswept the details and tried to move on. I wanted R desperately. I never really understood how much that had to do with my own response to the trauma of betrayal.

18 years later i had a trigger event that made me realize that was no longer acceptable to me - and really never should have been. I marvel now looking back at how I've managed to compartmentalize my feelings about her A. And how it affected me in ways that I had never been willing to think about or acknowledge.

Those unanswered questions have been the elephant in our bedroom for 18 years. I could not ask for what I wanted because for some reason she reveled in those doing those things for him. Maybe those things are triggering for her now. But by denying me the information she denied the opportunity for us to deal with it openly and honestly.

So I'm asking for all the details now. Unfortunately, there's only so much detail to be had 18 years later. So get the information you want while "I don't remember" is still not a plausible excuse.

Of course he is lying but, not all the time. He is probably telling you the truth about the amount of sex and she could be anyone. Prostitution is as old as time and those poor women are available for money. She was available for compliments. It sounds like he enjoyed the planning, the drinking, the hero worship she was giving, the huge amount of free sex. It would be great except for the little problem that he is married and suppose to be monogamous. Wonder what he would do if you spent months doing this.

If you stay together you are going to have to accept that he did what he wanted to and probably given the opportunity would do it again.