Newest Member: Armyman9196

Reconciliation :
Should I monitor her vacation?

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DaddyDom ( member #56960) posted at 3:24 PM on Saturday, September 18th, 2021

I hope you don't mind a quick opinion from a WS. IMO, it is the WS's burden to make the effort(s) needed to "make things right" and restore trust after infidelity. In much the same way that, if a person hit a baseball and broke your window, it would be their responsibility to get that window fixed. Would you hire a PI to follow the window-breaker and make sure they aren't out breaking other windows, or spending their window money on something else? No, of course not. If they don't get it fixed, so be it, but the window-breaker will no longer be welcome in your life, and never trusted again. It isn't a punishment, it's a consequence.

Clearly, you are not at all comfortable with her going on this trip, which says to me that she has not done enough yet to prove to you that she is a safer person to be around. I imagine it doesn't feel very good at all to have to play the role of policeman and parent with your spouse. It shouldn't be your burden and your expense to check up on her, she should be the one working to prove to you that she's changed, and isn't the kind of person who would cheat anymore. Going off on a drunken girl's weekend near the OM and near his birthday... tells me she's not even close to being safe. She is not thinking of you, your needs, your pain, your fear... she is only thinking of herself. Which is exactly what she was doing when she had the affair in the first place.

What is hiring a PI going to do for you? To determine if she's a cheater? I can save you the $$$. She already cheated, she already lied, she already betrayed you. She is a cheater. No PI needed. Are you trying to determine if she's STILL cheating? In my opinion, whether or not she's currently/physically having an affair is not really the question that needs answering. If a cheater wants to cheat, they will, period. So the real question (in my mind) is, "Is she a safer person now than she was before? Has she put in the effort to change and be someone more trustworthy, more caring and empathetic, someone who respects themselves and yourself too much to cheat again?". If the answer is no, then she is still unsafe, still a cheater. If she isn't cheating now then she will be later. Or she will continue to lie to you, put herself first, make the wrong choices. Honestly, if you really mistrust her that much, then I'm just not sure what a PI is going to do to make that any better for you? Let's say you hire him and he follows her on her weekend, and she doesn't cheat. What then? Is it over? Do you trust her now? Will you not break a sweat the next time she goes away? Do you keep hiring PI's for the rest of your marriage? Where does it end?

My take would be this... she should not even be asking about this, let alone going to it. If her weekend away is more important than fixing the relationship with you, then you have your answer. Don't hire a PI, hire a lawyer. Wish her well on her trip and ask her where she'll be staying afterward since she won't be staying with you.

Look, she might honestly have zero intentions of visiting the OM or anything else. It doesn't matter, that's not the point. The point is, she's not thinking of you, she is not putting your safety and your needs first, and she's not putting in the effort and sacrifice needed to make the changes to become a safer person. Hiring a PI won't fix any of that. Won't prevent it either. Worst that happens is that she goes to see the OM, the PI catches her, tells you, and then... what? You already don't trust her, do you really need to re-validate that perspective? DO you really need the new mind-movies to torture you?

She didn't need help to figure out how to cheat on you. She put in the effort needed to get her way, and the effort needed to cover it up. And she succeeded in those goals, right? So we know she knows how to work hard to get what she wants. If she wants to R with you, then you should see her putting in that same level (or more!) of effort. And if she is, you'll know it. She doesn't have to succeed for you to know she's trying, so clearly she is not.

This is just my advice, take it or leave it. My only suggestion is that you take a step back, and ask yourself what problem you are really trying to solve here, and what is really best for your own emotional health and well-being. You've already been traumatized by having been cheated on. Don't continue to allow that, and don't make your own life harder and more painful. Every BS has to decide for themselves if they want to D or R. The thing is, every WS has to make the same decision. And both BS and WS must be wholeheartedly "in it together" to successfully R. If that's not the case, and if efforts aren't being made by both people to R, then there's no point in wondering how R is going. It's not. There is no progress when there is no effort.

Try saying this to her, "Look, I'm not at all happy about this trip, but more than that, I'm hurt and angry that you even thought to go in the first place. This is hurting me and upsetting me, and you can see that, but you still aren't able to put your own desires aside, not even for my well-being, not even after you decimated me. I want you to think about this long and hard, and decide now, once and for all, if you want to try and make this marriage work, or bail. Because I'm done worrying about where you are and what you are doing when you can't show the same level of concern and effort back. If you want to go, then go, I won't stop you, but I'll also do what's best for me without regard to you want, which likely means calling my lawyer. If that's not what you want, then make a different choice, and convince me you really want this. Because right now it feels like it felt before, and that's not acceptable."

Me: WS
BS: ISurvivedSoFar
D-Day Nov '16
Status: Reconciling
"I am floored by the amount of grace and love she has shown me in choosing to stay and fight for our marriage. I took everything from her, and yet she chose to forgive me."

posts: 1164   ·   registered: Jan. 18th, 2017   ·   location: Marblehead, MA
id 8689156
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 3:54 PM on Saturday, September 18th, 2021

If her weekend away is more important than fixing the relationship with you, then you have your answer. Don't hire a PI, hire a lawyer.

DaddyDom said it best.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 10736   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8689160
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BlueRaspberry ( member #76065) posted at 4:26 PM on Saturday, September 18th, 2021

Try saying this to her, "Look, I'm not at all happy about this trip, but more than that, I'm hurt and angry that you even thought to go in the first place. This is hurting me and upsetting me, and you can see that, but you still aren't able to put your own desires aside, not even for my well-being, not even after you decimated me. I want you to think about this long and hard, and decide now, once and for all, if you want to try and make this marriage work, or bail. Because I'm done worrying about where you are and what you are doing when you can't show the same level of concern and effort back. If you want to go, then go, I won't stop you, but I'll also do what's best for me without regard to you want, which likely means calling my lawyer. If that's not what you want, then make a different choice, and convince me you really want this. Because right now it feels like it felt before, and that's not acceptable."

This^^^^^^^

posts: 233   ·   registered: Dec. 29th, 2020
id 8689163
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StrugglingCJ ( member #72778) posted at 5:58 PM on Saturday, September 18th, 2021

I have been where you are.. And I was there post DDay when she went away with the other guy to festivals twice and to where he lives once.. All of those times were like a stab through my heart and each time drove much further away from her..

This is regardless of anything she said or did to "reconcile" as basically she is choosing time with the AP over her husband..

The same applies here.. Hire a PI and all you will probably get is proof of more cheating.. There are thousands of places to go on vacation so why go to one so close to AP.. You already know that answer tbh.

Some will say to not confront her.. I would suggest being brutally honest and tell her that no matter what promises she makes whilst away.. She has ALREADY shown she is willing to break promises and vows before.. And there is no way for her to guarantee you she won't cheat whilst away.. And you are not comfortable with her even thinking of going near the AP!! He is definitely NOT trustworthy..

She needs to prove first that she is trying to reconcile.. And doing this just shows she really isn't trying right now.. My WW wasn't tbh and her head was so far up her arse she didn't even think it would be a problem for me!!

Make damn sure before she knows that this is a relationship killer for you.. If she still goes.. You have your answer. Then hire a lawyer.. Change the locks do whatever YOU need to do.

WW caught in EA May 17
DDay Mar 19 it was full PA
Struggling for R, but still trying.

posts: 164   ·   registered: Feb. 10th, 2020   ·   location: Essex
id 8689176
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ButAnyway ( new member #79085) posted at 6:26 PM on Saturday, September 18th, 2021

You are not making any sense.

You say you don’t want to D, but you’ll D her if she fucks OM, but you won’t do anything to stop her or even let her know the consequences of her actions if she does.

posts: 38   ·   registered: Jul. 7th, 2021
id 8689183
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fareast ( member #61555) posted at 6:52 PM on Saturday, September 18th, 2021

DaddyDom has given you great advice. Read it and take it in. Good luck.

Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.

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id 8689193
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WontBeFooledAgai ( member #72671) posted at 8:47 PM on Saturday, September 18th, 2021

Meanwhile, OP, why is this thread in the Reconciliation subforum? OP, surely you understand that you are not in any sort of Reconciliation, in any sense of the word. This really should be in the JFO or General section instead...

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 9:16 PM, Saturday, September 18th]

posts: 305   ·   registered: Jan. 26th, 2020
id 8689204
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 9:19 PM on Saturday, September 18th, 2021

As others have pointed out you are asking the wrong question.

You shouldn't have to monitor her vacation because she should not be going on the trip in the first place.

I'm sorry that you are not in reconciliation and I'm sorry she's not reconciliation material.

You know your gut is right and you are coming here for some reassurance.

So here's some: She is still gaslifhting and abusing you. Start from there.

Read No More Mr Nice Guy because you appear to be falling into some of those patterns.

See a divorce attorney when she goes on the trip.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH: 50, WW: 49 Wed: Feb.'96 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2: 12.23.19

posts: 4339   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8689205
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clouds777 ( member #72442) posted at 11:48 PM on Saturday, September 18th, 2021

If the evidence that a PI would provide would help solidify your resolve to divorce her and end the false reconciliation, yes you should hire one.

She is not a safe partner. She doesn't care about your feelings. She doesn't want to be a safe partner. Read daddydom's post over and over.

You really don't need the PI. You already know what you will see and you know who she is. But if it helps you end this false reconciliation that you're in, do it.

When you hire the PI, also hire a divorce attorney. You know what you're going to find out.

posts: 138   ·   registered: Jan. 1st, 2020
id 8689214
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tushnurse ( member #21101) posted at 12:15 AM on Sunday, September 19th, 2021

If having proof is what it takes you to stand up and protect yourself and your kids then get it.

As someone who had an H commit his A out of town (oot), it is a special kind of hell to figure it out, and to get proof. For 6 months I was convinced I was losing my mind, or he was either cheating, addicted to bad drugs, or lost his mind. I was 99% sure it was an A but he was so careful a such a gaslighter it was difficult. I attempted to get proof. I considered a PI. I considered a disguise and borrowing my sisters car to find out what was actually going on.

When I got my proof, I demanded immediate NC. However he played along and then while saying all the right things found excuses to go back to that city even though he lost his job. Went on more than one "duck hunt with the boys" that turned out to be to go back. And every single time he broke NC I knew it immediately because of his behavior.

I eventually got some balls and tapped into solid reason and made a plan. Got a keylogger and within 48 hours had proof they were still communicating. I left work. I came home I was done crying I was done fighting. I gave him my wedding ring and told him to leave.
That is when the power shift occurred and he pulled his head out of his ass, because he knew I was done. No more lies EVER again. He happily allowed me to keep the keylogger on the computer. He let me know each time she reached out and I knew his responses. His actions finally matched his words.

But had they not I would have been done. He knew it.
My point to this trip down my personal memory lane?
You need to be willing to lose your M to try to save it and honestly she isn't worth saving if she can't even understand the torture she is causing you and the risk of your M by doing what she is doing.

Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 21 &23
Married for 28 years now, was 16 at the time.
D-Day Sept 26 2008
R'd in about 2 years. Old Vet now.

posts: 18985   ·   registered: Oct. 1st, 2008   ·   location: St. Louis
id 8689215
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guvensiz ( member #75858) posted at 2:33 AM on Sunday, September 19th, 2021

Unlike others, I'm going to suggest you save your years, not your money.

Obviously, like everyone else, you know what this trip is for and what she's going to do, but you still want to be sure and have concrete evidence. This is very understandable and rational. Since you didn't state that you have any financial problem, I don't understand why everyone is bothering about spending money. You need a concrete evidence, so you should hire a PI. Otherwise, it seems that you will not be comfortable. You are as aware as anyone else of what the outcome will be.

Nor do I suggest that you let her know you're uncomfortable with her trip and try to discourage her from going. What if she realizes that you understood her intentions and gave up on the trip? You will continue to stay married to a more careful cheater and will most likely experience what you are experiencing now, years from now. So why not see if the cheater in her still exists now and waste your years?

posts: 520   ·   registered: Nov. 14th, 2020
id 8689226
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BluerThanBlue ( member #74855) posted at 5:55 AM on Sunday, September 19th, 2021

Guvensiz, the reason most of us are saying that a PI is a waste of money in this case is (1) OP already knows his wife has cheated on him; he knows what's she capable of and (2) OP's WW has already betrayed him by going on this trip in the first place.

As you mention, wasting time is worse than wasting money. My fear for OP is that if a PI doesn't turn up anything on this particular trip, he will completely sweep all of this under the rug, not require her to do any work to rebuild his trust, and empower her to cheat on him again in the future.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 5:56 AM, Sunday, September 19th]

BW, age 40
Divorced WH in 2015; now happily remarried to a great guy

I edit my comments a lot for spelling, grammar, typos, etc.

posts: 510   ·   registered: Jul. 13th, 2020
id 8689235
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tushnurse ( member #21101) posted at 2:31 PM on Sunday, September 19th, 2021

Everyone has a breaking point. For each of us it takes time to figure out what that is.

OP reminds me of an older member who had an abusive nasty cheating wife, and we fussed and pushed him hard to see the light. When I was about to give up, he reached his breaking point and he would most likely tell you the changes that came from it helped him.
Abandondad

Me: FBS
Him: FWS
Kids: 21 &23
Married for 28 years now, was 16 at the time.
D-Day Sept 26 2008
R'd in about 2 years. Old Vet now.

posts: 18985   ·   registered: Oct. 1st, 2008   ·   location: St. Louis
id 8689250
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Organic2003 ( member #69811) posted at 3:54 PM on Sunday, September 19th, 2021

I have hired a PI.

I think we have an A student. That doesn't make her decision to go on the trip good but OP will learn the truth soon.

There is opportunity in EVERYTHING

posts: 141   ·   registered: Feb. 19th, 2019
id 8689251
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Buster123 ( member #65551) posted at 5:52 PM on Sunday, September 19th, 2021

I too understand the need to have concrete proof, if it was me and like others said I would probably just file for D just for considering the trip in the first place and regardless of the PI results, her decision to go on such a "trip with the girls" back to OM's town simply proves she's no R material by a long shot, but if money is not a problem and you need concrete proof to end the M, then by all means a PI is the best way to catch them, if she's traveling by car I suggest you plant a VAR and GPS in her car to help the PI with her locations while on her trip, this could make the PI job much easier and help you save money.

posts: 2454   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018
id 8689264
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nekonamida ( member #42956) posted at 5:54 PM on Sunday, September 19th, 2021

It seems to me that OP has decided there's a difference here: Major impediment to R that can maybe be worked on VS Immediate need for S/D. And the difference lies in whether or not she is going to see OM on this trip. He doesn't want to deal with doubts if she goes and comes back as if nothing happened. Going at all may be a line in the sand for many of us but I don't blame OP for deciding his line in the sand is whether she's being honest about her time on this trip or not.

posts: 5026   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2014   ·   location: United States
id 8689265
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Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 4:58 PM on Monday, September 20th, 2021

Clouds said "If the evidence that a PI would provide would help solidify your resolve to divorce her and end the false reconciliation, yes you should hire one.

She is not a safe partner. She doesn't care about your feelings. She doesn't want to be a safe partner. Read daddydom's post over and over.

You really don't need the PI. You already know what you will see and you know who she is. But if it helps you end this false reconciliation that you're in, do it"


That's what I think too. You've given her every chance imaginable because you dont want to hurt your kids. Going to the city of her AP means she doesn't get R, not really, even if she really will be with only her gf. But if there is no AP then maybe you can explain to her later how she is continuing to hurt you.

If the PI finds she meets with her AP, please end the false R with immediate D. Your kids will benefit more from having a father who stands up for himself and is healthy than a father playing make believe in a false marriage.

In this case, getting that ironclad proof appears to really be what you need.

posts: 362   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8689378
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survrus ( member #67698) posted at 11:22 PM on Monday, September 20th, 2021

I get why he is using a PI.

If he loves his kids more than his WW he will do whatever is needed to preserve their family life, and that may include rehabilitating a serial cheater.

For him the basic requirement is complete truth, and from that he can build a recovery.

He might even forgive his WW if she has had multiple small affairs provided she takes a polygraph and makes a self-emptying confession.

posts: 1056   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2018   ·   location: USA
id 8689450
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ButAnyway ( new member #79085) posted at 12:13 AM on Tuesday, September 21st, 2021

Occam’s Razor would strongly suggest otherwise.

posts: 38   ·   registered: Jul. 7th, 2021
id 8689455
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redfish ( member #71426) posted at 7:04 PM on Tuesday, September 21st, 2021

There are thousands of places to go on vacation so why go to one so close to AP.

For me this question stands out, besides the fact she planned a trip without you. Did she even ask you to go?
I understand with the mentality to search for one more fact to prove a WS is or is not a safe partner. Can the PI watch her 24/7, does he have a photo of AP?
R takes a long time, After an affair a BS might watch their WS more closely. Looks to me your need for a PI has skipped over the police and gone to the Marriage FBI.

What will you do if she does not see AP but goes to nightclubs and places a WS should not go as a married spouse?

posts: 114   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2019   ·   location: USA
id 8689581
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