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RocketRaccoon ( member #54620) posted at 8:25 AM on Monday, July 12th, 2021

A truly remorseful WS would actually drop whatever they were doing, and do an immediate NC with their AP.

The very fact that your WSO (am assuming you are not married, as you did not put down WS/WH) is staying on for the rest of the trip, does not bode well for you.

If your WSO gives the excuse of not being able to leave the trip mid-way, does that mean if there was a death/tragedy in the family, he would not be able to leave the trip mid-way also? I think not.

This just gives him time to have more time with his AP, and discuss the 'what ifs' between them.

BTW, do you know if his AP is his peer or one of the students....? And in what capacity is he in for the trip (e.g. chaperone, resident expert)?

You cannot cure stupid

posts: 890   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2016   ·   location: South East Asia
id 8674705
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Sofarsogood ( member #71991) posted at 12:22 PM on Monday, July 12th, 2021

So sorry this has happened to you. Definitely take time for yourself and contemplate your tolerance for the cheating. Assuming you and your wayward partner are young, you can reflect on his behavior. This occurred before engagement and marriage. Is this the type of person you will be able to trust again? How much longer is this trip? I hope you can keep your options open. Remember it's actions, not words, that reflect true remorse by the cheating partner. Put yourself first!

posts: 275   ·   registered: Nov. 2nd, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8674723
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asc1226 ( member #75363) posted at 2:15 PM on Monday, July 12th, 2021

Check the other woman’s social media and find out if she’s married or has a boyfriend. If she does contact him and inform him of her infidelity. If you’re SO gets mad about this you know he’s protecting her over your relationship.

Frankly, it will probably take longer than you’ve been together to regain enough trust to begin to rebuild a functioning relationship with him, and there are no guarantees.

I make edits, words is hard

posts: 370   ·   registered: Sep. 7th, 2020
id 8674758
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 flowerceremony (original poster new member #79104) posted at 4:10 PM on Monday, July 12th, 2021

To clarify, both of them are students on the trip - they are peers.

The trip is over on Friday. We didn't discuss him leaving early, it really hadn't even crossed my mind to be honest. Now I'm wondering if I should ask.

My mind is still all over the place and I'm not sure of my tolerance for cheating yet. Definitely struggling with the knowledge that he went back for more after knowing he'd done something wrong the first time.

posts: 16   ·   registered: Jul. 11th, 2021
id 8674790
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asc1226 ( member #75363) posted at 4:24 PM on Monday, July 12th, 2021

We didn't discuss him leaving early, it really hadn't even crossed my mind to be honest. Now I'm wondering if I should ask.

You should be wondering why he hasn’t left early without you having to ask. The saying around here is if contact continues the affair continues. How could he possibly expect you to believe otherwise? Because he says so?

I make edits, words is hard

posts: 370   ·   registered: Sep. 7th, 2020
id 8674798
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scaredwoman ( member #78680) posted at 8:24 PM on Monday, July 12th, 2021

So sorry you're here. Unfortunately, if he didn't make an immediate change to get away from the OW it most likely meant that he's enjoying his time with her while he can.

2 1/2 years into a relationship is a very short time to already be cheating. I don't know that I would trust it at this point. With no kids and house to divide, it might be best to walk away.

posts: 154   ·   registered: Apr. 20th, 2021
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justabrokendream ( member #3075) posted at 8:27 PM on Monday, July 12th, 2021

You said:

My mind is still all over the place and I'm not sure of my tolerance for cheating yet.

I hate to say it but if you stay with this man you will likely have to learn to be extremely tolerant.

posts: 480   ·   registered: Jan. 3rd, 2004   ·   location: CA
id 8674898
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Sofarsogood ( member #71991) posted at 8:33 PM on Monday, July 12th, 2021

Maybe make a list of things you want to ask him when you talk. How he responds will help you determine what direction you want the relationship to go. Do you have a trusted friend you could confide in? If you aren't ready to share with anyone yet, please keep us posted. (There are so many people on this site that have been through infidelity and are a fountain of wisdom). Take what information you can use and stay strong!

posts: 275   ·   registered: Nov. 2nd, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8674903
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 flowerceremony (original poster new member #79104) posted at 9:54 PM on Monday, July 12th, 2021

Thanks, all, for the helpful advice and comments.

I don't think I'm ready to share with anyone else yet. It's mostly because of the overwhelming shame I'm feeling. I worry about the repercussions of telling people down the road - I'm anxious that their perception of me will change if I decide to try for R.

Any advice on whether to share with people or hold off during these tumultuous first days would be great.

posts: 16   ·   registered: Jul. 11th, 2021
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 10:16 PM on Monday, July 12th, 2021

Every person I know who was cheated on during the dating period and married the cheater BF/GF was also betrsyed a d cheated on during the marriage.

Every one.

For some people it’s just who they really are. Fortunately you don’t have to be in a relationship with someone like that. You can choose to move on.

Painful? Yes. Best option for you? I’d still say yes.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 10556   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8674941
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redfish ( member #71426) posted at 10:50 PM on Monday, July 12th, 2021

What I found out is my W did not know what to do to make things right. Her first response was to say sorry and ask forgiveness. My question was what was I forgiving her for. For me that was talk and not action although the hysterical bonding was an action.

A common theme I see in the forums is WS do not know what to do. I don't believe they search for an answer like they might other things in life. I feel in the beginning one may need to guide them.

An example is why did your WH not leave early? As much as that seems obvious at the same time it doesn't. Had you asked him to leave early his action would tell you a bit about where this will end up.

posts: 110   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2019   ·   location: USA
id 8674950
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 flowerceremony (original poster new member #79104) posted at 2:34 AM on Tuesday, July 13th, 2021

This might be a little off-topic, but can anyone provide advice or tips as to how to respond when your WSO tries to comfort you in the early days? Things like saying "I love you" or "I'm sorry for hurting you" etc.

At this point (2 days since dday) I feel like he's saying those things to make himself feel better and it's ringing hollow. Is it normal to feel like words aren't enough at this stage?

posts: 16   ·   registered: Jul. 11th, 2021
id 8675009
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ChamomileTea ( member #53574) posted at 3:31 AM on Tuesday, July 13th, 2021

Of course the apologies and protestations of love are feeling hollow. And frankly, it doesn't matter if he feels like they're sincere or not if they're making you feel uncomfortable and pressured. We're supposed to be polite when someone tells us that they love us, right? They're putting themselves out there and being vulnerable, so it just feels like bad manners to tell them to "stuff it". But here's the deal... he has already proved to you that his words are meaningless. You ostensibly had a verbal agreement about fucking other people, right? Turned out that his word is not exactly his bond.

It's okay to let him know that you don't want to be pressured right now and that you feel like he's trying to manipulate you with the sweet nothings. To his credit, he did tell you immediately, so chances are, it's not a deliberate manipulation, but you get to feel however you want right now, so he needs to stop if you're uncomfortable with his groveling.

posts: 4530   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016
id 8675019
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LostInHisFog ( member #78503) posted at 3:34 AM on Tuesday, July 13th, 2021

Ok a few things.

He is being textbook here. He is sleeping with someone, his time with her is running out and he knows he can't possibly cover his tracks, he figures if he gets the apology out of the way while he is not there face to face you will "come around" and this will not be a big deal when he returns. It's a cowards move, to do this over the phone, but it's common. My money is on he is still sleeping with her and she has no clue about him coming clean to you.

So what does he do? He tells you exactly what you want to hear. Verbal love bombing (love bombing is a cheaters MO of distraction and deflection) and has nothing to do with love or remorse, it's like him shooting you with a bullet then putting a love heart Band-Aid over the wound and kissing it better so of course it feels fake. I'd be on high alert too if one day the one I loved the most openly admits to having regular sex with someone else then the next "I love you"...

The longer you entertain you are staying the more confident he will be that he got away with this, he knows what to do next time and there will be a next time, he is not remorseful at all, he is just smoothing things over getting ready for his return, that has nothing to do with you or the relationship, since you're buying this bullshit he will do what you want when he returns, he will continue saying all the things you want to hear and he will even go to couples therapy if you insist (big giant NO on CC BTW, the relationship isn't the reason for him cheating, he is the reason, he needs therapy but if he isn't remorseful and only goes to IC for you he won't change.) But know he is just indulging you like a child, it's not real, he has gotten away with it, he is sleeping around and you take him back.

You will read this and be told this, cheaters lie. Words have no meaning, actions have meaning, but words hold nothing now. All you are getting are words. The only action he could have done to show you true remorse is after the first time he slept with her is come back home to you the next day and talk it out face to face. But nope.

So right now he will sleep with her as often as he can now his time with her is coming to an end, gets the apology to you out of the way so he doesn't have to face any consequences when he returns, most likely makes plans to hook-up every chance they get.

There has never been an example of a couple who has infidelity before marriage that is infidelity free after, none, it's why everyone is saying tell your family and friends (you need the support) and break it off.

It's hard to give up the dream but you don't have the dream, you have the nightmare and you're currently buying into his lies. So what are you going to do to protect yourself moving forward?

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 9:37 PM, July 12th (Monday)]

I edit because I'm fluent in typo & autocorrect hates me.

posts: 151   ·   registered: Mar. 14th, 2021
id 8675020
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MickeyBill2016 ( member #56459) posted at 6:08 AM on Tuesday, July 13th, 2021

Things like saying "I love you" or "I'm sorry for hurting you" etc.

Should be met with about nine seconds of silence.

Then say "Ok" and you bring up another topic. No need to comfort him or listen to his phony tears.

9 years married.
13 years divorced.

posts: 1176   ·   registered: Dec. 17th, 2016   ·   location: West of the 405 North of the Mexican border
id 8675040
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RocketRaccoon ( member #54620) posted at 6:18 AM on Tuesday, July 13th, 2021

Things like saying "I love you" or "I'm sorry for hurting you" etc.

They are just words. Words without actions to back them up are worth absolutely nothing.

It is like him not offering to cut the trip short (it will probably be to his detriment), but that would indicate how much he is willing to sacrifice for the relationship. How much he values it.

Whether you take him up on the offer is up to you, but he did not offer, which means that he probably wants to spend a bit more time with his AP for 'closure'.... which is a load of hogwash.

You cannot cure stupid

posts: 890   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2016   ·   location: South East Asia
id 8675041
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src9043 ( member #75367) posted at 6:57 AM on Tuesday, July 13th, 2021

You are not married to him and you are both students. You better think long and hard before you decide to stay with him. Two and one-half years may seem a long time at your age, but believe me, it isn't very long. If you were thinking of marrying him, basically he has failed the tryout.

[This message edited by src9043 at 1:00 AM, July 13th (Tuesday)]

posts: 417   ·   registered: Sep. 7th, 2020
id 8675048
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Sofarsogood ( member #71991) posted at 12:27 PM on Tuesday, July 13th, 2021

It sounds like this trip he took was 3 to 4 weeks. Did you cheat on him during this time? Has he had past opportunities to cheat on you? It boils down to character. He grabbed the chance to cheat and you didn't. You might consider a break from him, and see what else is out there. Also, make sure you get checked for Stds since he's shown he's capable of cheating. Look out for yourself!

posts: 275   ·   registered: Nov. 2nd, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8675070
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Bigger ( Guide #8354) posted at 1:24 PM on Tuesday, July 13th, 2021

I often doubt the effectiveness of offering advice in situations like this…

There is a very loud and vocal group that posts here on JFO that things divorce and ending the relationship is the single and only way to solve all infidelity issues.

There is a calmer and generally more experienced group that says you can reconcile from infidelity if (a) that’s what you want and (b) the conditions and circumstances are conductive to reconciling.

I follow the later group. To a level where the first group insists I always suggest every situation is recoverable from. Well… I do. I think every situation – even yours – is recoverable from.

However… I don’t think every situation SHOULD be recovered from. And that applies to you and your relationship.

So you know where I come from: My bout with infidelity was with my fiancé after a near-5 year relationship. Four weeks and six days before our big wedding. About 12 hours before I walked in on her we finished some seating arrangements and committed to the DJ rather than a band. In MY instance I walked out of that relationship. Not because it couldn’t have been reconciled, but because even then I realized that if this happens BEFORE the big commitments of kids, a mortgage, car-loans and all that stuff then there is something seriously wrong with the partner.

So that’s where my suggestion would be. Thank you for the last 30 months or so, I will remember you as my university crush but here is your stuff, here is the door…

Reconcile? Well… to start with it would require he seek professional help (IC) to realize why he felt entitled to cheat. Why he was OK with doing so repeatedly. Once he has dealt with that and is content with being in a monogamous relationship then there would be a couple of years of couples counseling and making sure you both are on the same track. For that time (and probably the next 4 years) any major commitment – marriage, kids, a home, mutual car-loan, mortgage, residency, employment – needs to be based on the relationship situation and postponed as long as possible. To me that is too high a price to pay to stay in a relationship already tainted by infidelity.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 9858   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8675076
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 flowerceremony (original poster new member #79104) posted at 3:43 PM on Tuesday, July 13th, 2021

I appreciate everyone's advice, it's helping me put everything into perspective.

We are both 25, definitely still young. I realize it may seem silly to some who have gone through infidelity in their relationships after many years of marriage, but I did think that we had the foundation to last forever, which is what makes facing the end so difficult.

I've been trying very hard to approach this situation as rationally as possible, but I realize now that keeping all of this bottled up is just going to make me miserable and I need the support of people who care about me and who will support me no matter what happens next.

A few of you have mentioned putting myself first and doing things to protect myself/love myself. Other than leaning on people I trust for support, how can I begin to start the process of making myself a priority?

posts: 16   ·   registered: Jul. 11th, 2021
id 8675106
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