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Wayward not bothered at all by scenes of adultery

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The1stWife posted 4/21/2021 08:09 AM

So your cheating wife could fessed in her own.

So did my H.

I thought that was honorable and I gave him props for that. Then 10 days later he wants a D. What I found out in those 10 days was that my H was a liar and cheater and no better than a rat.

Lesson learned - liars cheat and cheaters lie and they both are selfish individuals who will say and do anything to get what they want.

And my H too didn’t think a cheating scene on the Sopranos was awkward during his affair. Now however he has a different perspective.

hikingout posted 4/21/2021 08:30 AM

I also confessed on my own.

I think it's important to realize change is very slow. When I confessed I was two months out from the affair. The reason I did it was because I wanted to see if we could save our marriage and knew that I had to confess in order for that to be explored.

But, keep in mind, it wasn't really because it was right. It was because I was afraid, I wanted comforted, and I wanted to keep the marriage. Notice how none of that was for him really.

I don't say it's worth nothing. I would have rathered my husband confessed his affair on his own but he was so busy trying to make sure I didn't find out that it ended up being exactly what happened.

It will be some time before you understand what her motivations were for confessing. But, as I said even though I confessed, it still took me a lot of time just to unwind the crap I was telling myself in order to make myself feel better about what I was doing. I was definitely short on empathy and long on being overwhelmed and encompassed by just my feelings.

It's hard to understand how she wouldn't anticipate or fathom that shows or really anything to do with infidelity would be a sensitive thing for you. I think I was a pretty foggy and unempathetic WS that first year but still would have told you this would be an obvious trigger that I needed to deal with. WS by nature are avoidant so I am not commenting on her ability to change. I am more commenting that she hasn't yet.

BeyondRage posted 4/21/2021 08:36 AM

"Stay married if you can" where a better premise might have been "Divorce unless..."
I guess the good news is that there is no expiration date.

Seems very strange. Wife goes on a girls trip without you, bangs some guy, and out of the blue confesses. I am assuming you know who else was on this trip with her. You believe they did not know what she did??? And are these "friends" people you know and socialize with??? If yes, that may be why she confessed. I'd be wanting to know if I was going to be having dinner or other activities with friends whose wife know that your wife cheated on you.

Any boundaries in this "reconciliation'???? Whats your response next time she was to go on another trip????

The problem is not your wife and a TV show. Its you are letting her steer the ship and accepting the course she chooses.

HowCouldSheDoIt posted 4/21/2021 11:20 AM

Yes, I'm leaving a lot out; I posted this because I wanted validation and thank you so much for your responses.

We have both attended MC but neither of us really liked the therapist so we're taking a break.

I made some significant mistakes probably worthy of divorce (I never laid a hand on her, but I had my own issues with how I treated her over the years). I have done a lot of work to improve myself and how to be a better husband, IC, worked through a book, agreed to many changes that she needed, making progress in many areas.

She has agreed to things too, and has done them. My biggest issue is this lack of empathy she has, and really has always been lacking.

Some replies here suggest I'm enabling her self-centeredness are spot-on... this whole R has been my work. I can tell she has made an effort to treat me nicer, but generally she does not initiate or lead any healing actions for me.

My IC has suggested things are better than I think they are. I wouldn't really know. This is my first time with adultery.

Thanks for all the wonderful responses.

Butforthegrace posted 4/21/2021 11:34 AM

I made some significant mistakes probably worthy of divorce (I never laid a hand on her, but I had my own issues with how I treated her over the years).

My biggest issue is this lack of empathy she has, and really has always been lacking.

I can tell she has made an effort to treat me nicer, but generally she does not initiate or lead any healing actions for me.

You treat her badly enough pre-A that you recognize it as an issue. She treats you badly post-A. Maybe the reality is that you two simply don't like nor respect each other?

sisoon posted 4/21/2021 11:37 AM

Welcome to SI. I'll share some of my thoughts and suggest some reading. Sorry for the long post.

*****

IMO, R requires a WS who is totally honest with the BS and with themself. I think it's honesty with themself that enables them to take responsibility for their actions and for the consequences.

Your W is dodging the consequences; she still won;ttake responsibility for her actions. That means she is not a good candidate for R at this point.

*****

There's a big difference between being strong and being an asshole. R requires both the BS and WS to create and enforce new boundaries.

A WS who's not a good candidate for R may view the BS as an asshole for enforcing boundaries, but we know an unremorseful WS is still immersed in lies.

*****

R is a joint project. It works only if all partners are willing to build the same M. Your W is certainly entitled to have requirements for R. You need to have requirements for R. I mean real 'requirements' - if she won't deliver, R is off the table. Also, if you don't want to deliver on her requirements, R is off the table.

R, IMO and IME, is negotiated between the partners, but it starts with letting your W know what you require from her.

So, what are your requirements for R? And just to be explicit, one of your needs is to ask any question about the A that occurs to you, and she needs to agree to give you totally honest answers. That requirement needs to go on your list - otherwise you doom yourself to a life of stifling yourself and, perhaps, eventually blowing up at a very bad time.

If your W won't talk about her A, you can rugsweep, but yo can't R, as far as I can see.

So ... what are your requirements for R?

If you want help setting them up, let us know ... SIers will be glad to share what worked and didn't work for us.

*****

Are you aware of the Healing Library? The link is in the yellow box in the upper left of most or all SI pages.

Some threads for you to peruse:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/reconciliation/what-every-wayward-spouse-needs-to-know.asp - if this resonates with you, I suggest printing it off and giving the printout to your H as 'something you found on the web.' My reco: DO NOT tell your H about SI until you're sure he's on board for R.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=361740&HL=14993 - serjr threads for newbies
Tactical Primer:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=235051

Boundaries and Consequences 101:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=385631

Setting Healthy Boundaries:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=231851

Before You Say Reconcile:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=406548

The Simplified 180:
https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=598080

20/20 Hindsight: What I Wish I'd Done:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=161389

This0is0Fine posted 4/21/2021 11:55 AM

I'm going to pick at your first post a bit if you don't mind...

I'm a betrayed, wife had a sexual fling while on vacation about six months ago. Glossing over a lot of details, she confessed and we've been trying to reconcile.

A lot of these details likely matter. Why do you describe it as a "fling" rather than an affair? How did it happen? Why? Did she plan ahead? Did they have sex multiple times?

I know betrayal isn't a competition but it speaks to the overall amount of work she is going to need to do to be a safe partner for you, or if she can be at all.

A few days ago we were watching a show when a one night stand / hookup scene came on. I got triggered and very uncomfortable. I didn't fast forward as it was over quickly, but she could tell I didn't like it and she asked "does that scene bother you?" and I said yes, then I asked her "Did it bother you at all?" and she (almost defiantly) answered "No."

This is a massive red flag. She doesn't care she hurt you. She seems to want to rugsweep. Is fling the word she came up with? Minimization and rugsweeping. Look out.

So I'm kind of hurt by that, it feels like she obviously doesn't have a deep regret. I would have expected her to have some difficulty with those scenes, at least watching them in front of me.

I think she has no regret and is trying to get ahead of it like a politician in damage control. She wants to control the narrative, say it doesn't matter, that she felt bad about it, that's why she told you about it, because she felt you deserved to know, and it was a mistake, a one time thing, she's sorry and it won't happen again, don't make it a whole big deal, she didn't love him or want to leave you, it's ok. She's going to try to maintain this frame of thinking as long as you allow it.

So I don't know, I guess I'm looking to see if something like that is an indicator of future trouble. I will say that she never was a good listener nor had a good ability to express empathy, so maybe I'm just sensitive to that?

That she doesn't listen and lack empathy generally is a very bad sign. This is her perspective:

The "fling" doesn't bother her. The "fling" meant nothing and shouldn't even hurt you, once you can admit it doesn't hurt you, you can both get over it and move on. Then when she has another meaningless fling, well, you've worked through it before and excused it before, so how could it mean anything a second time?

barcher144 posted 4/21/2021 12:11 PM

I don't think the fact that she was not bothered by the adultery scene of a movie is of any consequence whatsoever.

We all have our triggers and they are all different.

One of my favorite movies is The World According to Garp, which involves a couple of scenes of adultery. One of these scenes, in fact, is pretty infamous. If you've seen the movie, you know what I am talking about.

After my first marriage ended, I couldn't watch this movie for at least 5 years. After the D-day from my 2nd marriage, I could have watched the movie on repeat. The adultery scenes didn't bother me at all.

My BIGGER CONCERN, however, is that she seemed unconcerned about you triggering from watching the scene. She should be sympathetic/empathetic to your triggers and try to help you manage them as much as possible.

Thumos posted 4/21/2021 13:35 PM

“Fling” was the term my WW used on DDAY before I rooted out at least one sex act carried out in our home. I agree with TIF - both that term and her behavior during the show are red flags (contra to those trying to minimize it). You’re unlikely to ever feel “reconciled” to someone who has low EQ like this.

HowCouldSheDoIt posted 4/21/2021 13:40 PM

A lot of these details likely matter. Why do you describe it as a "fling" rather than an affair? How did it happen? Why? Did she plan ahead? Did they have sex multiple times?

Many details to write, but in general she went on vacation with my adult daughter, met this younger guy at the resort who was staying there alone doing some work in the area. Over the course of two weeks they exchanged texts, flirted by the pool, and one evening he texted "come down to this bar" and it was later and my daughter was asleep, she was feeling depressed about the marriage, was enjoying the attention, and she went. They came back to the resort and he invited her to his room for a drink, she followed. He made a pass at her, she returned it, moved to the bedroom, undressed and ended up doing oral (unprotected) and sex (with a condom). He was well built and attractive, and overall she enjoyed the experience. She felt horrible after, and never saw him again and left for home a couple days after. She can't explain why she did it, but knew she needed to tell me, a week later.

She answered all my questions about what happened, and was very open. It was very helpful to my healing but she was very resentful and bitter that I was asking. Probably still is. In MC the therapist scolded me for asking about the details of the sex (which really, really upset me; I have a right to know. Convince me, explain to me, but don't fucking scold me). I agreed that I would not ask for any further details and I haven't.

Even as I write this, I'm still in shock that she would do that. I mean, like she's a totally completely different person than I thought. I have had times when she even looked different, like she resembled my wife, but wasn't her. It's so strange what it does to you.

I believe her that it is over with NC. STD check is clean. She removed his number along with all the texts (I never read them). She promised me she would tell me if he tried to contact her, and he hasn't. She allows me to track her phone so I know where she's at (which is helpful)

I was very demanding of her, which I regret but that's where I was at. She did not understand triggers at all. For example, she wears a lot of jewelry to bed, which I have always liked when things are jingling and rattling. I insisted that she remove and never wear the jewelry she wore during sex with him. She was offended and refused at first, but ultimately did after I lost my shit about it. I insisted that she remove her wedding ring, which was on the hand that worked his cock. She was offended at this but complied. At first she criticized me and said "what about the underwear or my outfit?" but later came to an understanding and has since put away all reminders.

I have many other examples of treatment from her that aren't exactly horrible, but betray a complete and total cluelessness of what it feels like.

We haven't talked about it in a while, but she used to say that the adultery is not the focus here, the marriage was ruined before the adultery. She objected to me calling it "affair recovery" because the affair is not the only issue. We both agree it isn't the only issue, but we disagree that it is the biggest issue. I would never say this now, but back then I told her that going outside the marriage is worse than anything that happens inside the marriage. No doubt comments like that still stay with her.

My latest thoughts on the matter are the saying "There's no troubled marriage that can't be made worse with adultery."

I have been sooooo tempted to have a revenge affair because I wanted to desperately for her to see what it feels like. But I will not be hypocritical and I do still love her and want to stay married. To read my words it might not sound like it, but I do.

In therapy she has apologized and asked for forgiveness, and I have made many efforts to make amends for my past behaviors and show change. She is frustrated that I have needed additional assurance and signs that she is sorry. Generally, whenever I indicate that I'm still hurt by the adultery she is cold, defensive and annoyed.

Ok shit that took a long time to write. My lunch break was over like 40 min ago...

crazyblindsided posted 4/21/2021 14:14 PM

she used to say that the adultery is not the focus here, the marriage was ruined before the adultery. She objected to me calling it "affair recovery" because the affair is not the only issue.

See the thing with A's is any issue in the M (prior to the A)gets put on the back burner because the A is NOW the biggest issue and it is abuse and a trauma to the BS. Also I would stop seeing a MC and have her start seeing her own IC that specializes in infidelity. She should probably read a few books before deciding that she thinks her A isn't the biggest issue in the M. "Not Just Friends", "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" and the real eye opener for a WS "Cheating in a Nutshell."

Your WS is trying to shift the blame of her A to the issues in the M being the reason she had the A. It is not. Many couples go to counseling when they are having issues in the M, some will D but an A is never the answer. Rather than find a way she decided to nuke and end the M by having an A.

nekonamida posted 4/21/2021 14:33 PM

I would never say this now, but back then I told her that going outside the marriage is worse than anything that happens inside the marriage. No doubt comments like that still stay with her.

Your triggers, the fact that you can't even look at her wedding ring without mind movies and that sickening feeling, is on par with PTSD. There's even a sub set for infidelity related PTSD called PISD (Post Infidelity Stress Disorder). Were the issues in your marriage before the A PTSD worthy? Do you think she has mind movies and has been forced to throw out relics from the pre-A issues? Has she lost sleep, her appetite, lost weight, and had general symptoms of depression for weeks/months because of the pre-A issues? I doubt it. I'm sure she was frustrated but the two don't even compare when it comes to the effect those issues had on her (and you since you were in the same marriage too) and the effect the A had on you.

Stop giving her room to minimize by allowing her remorseless dribble room to breathe. The more you make excuses for her in an attempt the understand her, the further you drive the last nail in the coffin because she will keep believing that she's right as long as you give her the slightest validation for it. Stop accepting blame where you have none. The state of R is not all your fault because you do not have control over her actions. Look around - you're NORMAL for a BS. Plenty of BSes like you have made it through a successful R. Why? Because their WS was remorseful and did the work. Even if you got tough, there's no guarantee that the outcome would be any different.

Check out the 180 in the healing library and follow it. DETACH (Don't Even Think About Changing Her). Get yourself into IC. Start finding a way forward for your healing that is not based on what she is or isn't doing.

Edit: Every time you are tempted to say or think, "Well, I can understand why she said or did [unsupportive/remorseless thing]," instead replace it with, "I can see that she justified [remorseless thing] with her [bad reasoning/fears] but that doesn't excuse the pain that it caused me."

[This message edited by nekonamida at 2:38 PM, April 21st (Wednesday)]

This0is0Fine posted 4/21/2021 15:06 PM

HowCouldSheDoIt,

Thank you very much for the details, they are incredibly helpful. Unlike your marriage counselor who has become a conspirator in perpetuating abuse upon you. More on that later...

Many details to write, but in general she went on vacation with my adult daughter, met this younger guy at the resort who was staying there alone doing some work in the area. Over the course of two weeks they exchanged texts, flirted by the pool, and one evening he texted "come down to this bar" and it was later and my daughter was asleep, she was feeling depressed about the marriage, was enjoying the attention, and she went.

So she engaged in a reasonably long slow ramp into this. It wasn't as straightforward as a drunken one night stand (again, no offense to those of you betrayed by these means). She gave herself permission to exchange numbers with a man she was attracted to (!). She gave herself permission to meet him alone at a bar (!). She gave herself permission to go back to his room (!). The number of individual times she could have caught herself (already over the line to be honest) and not had sex with him were abundant.

She felt horrible after, and never saw him again and left for home a couple days after. She can't explain why she did it, but knew she needed to tell me, a week later.

If she can't explain why she did it, and why she gave permission to herself multiple times to cross what should have been boundaries, she won't be safe for you again. That's my personal opinion.

She answered all my questions about what happened, and was very open. It was very helpful to my healing but she was very resentful and bitter that I was asking. Probably still is. In MC the therapist scolded me for asking about the details of the sex (which really, really upset me; I have a right to know. Convince me, explain to me, but don't fucking scold me). I agreed that I would not ask for any further details and I haven't.

As foreshadowed at the beginning of this post, I do not approve of this behavior by your MC. You need to fire the MC posthaste. This MC will assist in minimization, rugsweeping, and blameshifting. You are going to get double teamed in emotional abuse. Your WW doesn't care she hurt you, so MC saying "see how he is hurt?" isn't even going to activate her brain cells. Meanwhile, you are going to eat capitulation after capitulation in an attempt to make her happy. Please, please, please don't continue with this MC.

Think about this critically, because your internal reaction is right. How on earth could you be scolded for wanting the truth? How can you forgive what you don't know? You 100% did the right thing to get details, and if you NEED further details, your WW should be willing to give them to you. For your healing to occur, I believe you will have to walk back this agreement. If your WW balks, tell her she walked away a much bigger agreement known to some as "wedding vows".

Fair and agreement are out the window for now. They can be re-established later, but you made that agreement under emotional duress and it simply shouldn't hold.

Look for another MC that specialized in infidelity. The one you are with is inexperienced, over their head, or likely (if you asked) horribly unsuccessful at keeping couples together after adultery.

Even as I write this, I'm still in shock that she would do that. I mean, like she's a totally completely different person than I thought. I have had times when she even looked different, like she resembled my wife, but wasn't her. It's so strange what it does to you.

I believe her that it is over with NC. STD check is clean. She removed his number along with all the texts (I never read them). She promised me she would tell me if he tried to contact her, and he hasn't. She allows me to track her phone so I know where she's at (which is helpful)

It's good that she is NC with him.

Should it be possible with your phone carrier, try to recover the texts. You can also try recovery software, but it seems the OS developers have generally improved text deletion to be true deletion after a pretty short period.

At the very least, get the metadata to see what the text count is. How many messages go back and forth? Did he really text her first about the bar? Pictures?

Confirming her story would go a long way to rebuilding trust if the story actually holds water. There is a world of difference between AP texts at 9:00 first to come down to the bar vs. your WW texts at 8:30 "daughter's asleep and I'm bored". While no WW is "prayed upon", how internally motivated she was to cheat matters as it relates to what kind of boundaries you and she need to establish in the future.

Again, you don't know what your a forgiving if you don't have the details. Other people might disagree with me on this as well. If you think you have enough information, that's all that really matters.

I was very demanding of her, which I regret but that's where I was at. She did not understand triggers at all. For example, she wears a lot of jewelry to bed, which I have always liked when things are jingling and rattling. I insisted that she remove and never wear the jewelry she wore during sex with him. She was offended and refused at first, but ultimately did after I lost my shit about it. I insisted that she remove her wedding ring, which was on the hand that worked his cock. She was offended at this but complied. At first she criticized me and said "what about the underwear or my outfit?" but later came to an understanding and has since put away all reminders.

That's a positive move at least. Removal of affair reminders is the bare minimum to get into recovery.

I have many other examples of treatment from her that aren't exactly horrible, but betray a complete and total cluelessness of what it feels like.

It took my fWW over a year and me asking for divorce several times to understand the damage she did. Anything you do that hides your pain will only extend your timeline for her to understand that you are in fact in a huge amount of pain.

We haven't talked about it in a while, but she used to say that the adultery is not the focus here, the marriage was ruined before the adultery. She objected to me calling it "affair recovery" because the affair is not the only issue. We both agree it isn't the only issue, but we disagree that it is the biggest issue. I would never say this now, but back then I told her that going outside the marriage is worse than anything that happens inside the marriage. No doubt comments like that still stay with her.

My latest thoughts on the matter are the saying "There's no troubled marriage that can't be made worse with adultery."

I think you should deal with the A first, recover from that first. That said, I'm also in the group that believes it is great to put everything on the table and say, "Assuming we can work through the shattered trust stemming from A, is what's left even worth that effort, or should we have D before the A?"

It's a great question, but it can only be answered with "We should D" or "We should figure out how to rebuild trust from the A". Not "Let's work on the M and the A problem will just be magically resolved".

I have been sooooo tempted to have a revenge affair because I wanted to desperately for her to see what it feels like. But I will not be hypocritical and I do still love her and want to stay married. To read my words it might not sound like it, but I do.

You think it's bad now, "There's no troubled marriage that can't be made worse with adultery." :)

I'm against RA's but other people engage in them. I don't think anyone finds them particularly useful at doing anything other than getting revenge and all the damage that goes along with revenge motivated actions.

In therapy she has apologized and asked for forgiveness, and I have made many efforts to make amends for my past behaviors and show change. She is frustrated that I have needed additional assurance and signs that she is sorry. Generally, whenever I indicate that I'm still hurt by the adultery she is cold, defensive and annoyed.

She needs to get WAY over this defensiveness. This is what ate at me for months before we finally reached a common understanding and resolution.

Ok shit that took a long time to write. My lunch break was over like 40 min ago...

I'm multitasking in meetings, thanks COVID.


Thumos posted 4/21/2021 15:44 PM

Probably still is. In MC the therapist scolded me for asking about the details of the sex

Exhibit #526,784 for why MC is worse than a waste of time in the wake of infidelity. In the future, MC's will be seen as evil witchdoctors or worse.


She answered all my questions about what happened, and was very open. It was very helpful to my healing but she was very resentful and bitter that I was asking.

That's not someone interested in being a healer. Without that, no reconciliation.

I insisted that she remove and never wear the jewelry she wore during sex with him. She was offended and refused at first, but ultimately did after I lost my shit about it.

Again, no empathy from her. Low EQ. There's a pattern here. It's not "demanding" that you wanted to remove triggers. It is common sense, and her reaction speaks volumes.

We haven't talked about it in a while, but she used to say that the adultery is not the focus here, the marriage was ruined before the adultery. She objected to me calling it "affair recovery" because the affair is not the only issue.

Classic blameshifting and rewriting the history of the marriage. You didn't cheat, now did you? Marriage could not have been that bad. WS's have a strange habit of portraying their marriages before the affair as Arctic hellscapes. This is very rarely true.

The reason you have experienced looking at her as another person is because she has now revealed her true self to you. There's a space alien there where your wife was, but the space alien is the true person.

I think TIF outlines some great advice. Do you really want to reconcile with this person? I think R is always worth a shot (hypothetically) but it requires all-in from a betrayer with real remorse. She just doesn't seem to have much invested in healing you.

As for revenge affairs, perhaps thinking it through logically will help you:

1. If you had an RA with a married woman, you'd be willfully visiting the same horror and pain on another family. I don't think that would sit well with you.

2. If you had an RA with a single woman, you'd be willfully using this innocent person as a tool to exact pain on your WW, hurting the single woman in the process too. I don't think that would sit well with you.

It won't make anything better and will make things immeasurably worse. And your WW, as a low-empathy, low EQ individual, is unlikely to feel the same level of pain from your cheating on her as you have experienced from her unfaithfulness.


[This message edited by Thumos at 3:55 PM, April 21st (Wednesday)]

ramius posted 4/21/2021 16:02 PM

I will say that she never was a good listener nor had a good ability to express empathy,

Yeah that lack of empathy thing, that is a big red flag.

HowCouldSheDoIt posted 4/21/2021 16:24 PM

Thank you so much for these awesome replies! It feels great.

My BIGGER CONCERN, however, is that she seemed unconcerned about you triggering from watching the scene. She should be sympathetic/empathetic to your triggers and try to help you manage them as much as possible.

She is a little concerned, I mean at least she asked about it.

She should probably read a few books before deciding that she thinks her A isn't the biggest issue in the M. "Not Just Friends", "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" and the real eye opener for a WS "Cheating in a Nutshell."

We are not there yet. I bought "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" and I asked her to read it. She read a few pages, bent the corner on like page 5, and there it has sat for a couple months now. I'm disappointed but to be fair she rarely reads self-help non-fiction.

Check out the 180 in the healing library and follow it. DETACH (Don't Even Think About Changing Her). Get yourself into IC. Start finding a way forward for your healing that is not based on what she is or isn't doing.

I'm doing quite well as a person, I mean if we were divorced right now I believe the adultery wouldn't affect me at all. I'm very proud of the work I have done on myself and I'm getting in better shape and feel better. My struggles are all about finding a way to forgive her and move forward in the marriage.

You need to fire the MC posthaste.

We did. Even the wife noticed that it was a very unbalanced and biased treatment and she didn't want to be part of it.

In the future, MC's will be seen as evil witchdoctors or worse.

I've never had any experience with them before. I wouldn't say they are evil, but the concept as I understand it is that their client is the marriage relationship, and so they don't advocate for the husband or the wife, but for the marriage relationship. I think where things went off the rails with the MC was that she didn't establish enough trust from me to endure her harsh treatment. I was still dealing with the trauma of another man between my wife's legs. I could have used a little sensitivity.

WS's have a strange habit of portraying their marriages before the affair as Arctic hellscapes. This is very rarely true.

I fully admit that I mistreated her. Never physical but I know my behaviors were very damaging. I own all of my horrible behaviors to which I have no excuse. Nobody else can be blamed for my failures as a husband, and it is my deepest regret. I have told her this several times. I wish she would have been stronger and left me or filed for divorce.

This0is0Fine posted 4/21/2021 16:39 PM

I wish she would have been stronger and left me or filed for divorce.

Yes, she should have pressed the issue so you knew how bad it was (assuming it was actually that bad, since a lot of WSs do relationship history rewriting). This is the better version of the "Why did she do it?" "Why didn't she address the issues in straightforward and honest way?"

src9043 posted 4/21/2021 16:57 PM

I have little regard for MCs when dealing with infidelity. From my personal experience and from what I have read, many of them simply enable the WS to rug sweep the whole mess. I suggest separate therapists, each versed in infidelity.

But, the bottom line is whether your wife loves and respects you. It doesn't seem that she does. From what I have read so far, she is desperately trying to rug sweep this entire episode. Ask her point-blank why she still wants to be with you.

This is difficult, but try and control your anger when dealing with her. She must take you seriously and your devastation seriously. This is where counseling from a specialist in infidelity might help.

My ex-wife's first affair was swept under the rug very quickly with the help of an incompetent MC. I was young and stupid not to understand what had been done. I never healed, I just faked it the rest of the marriage until I caught her again cheating. By that time I couldn't stand her and walking away was a liberation. My ex-wife was never remorseful. Don't fall into my trap. She has to understand your pain and she won't until she becomes truly remorseful. You have work to do to be a better partner. It should not have taken her ONS to bring this to your attention. I wonder why she didn't take it to her grave. It's as if she wanted to hurt you in revealing what she did. Clearing her conscience at your expense isn't enough of a reason for her confession.

Again, if she doesn't give you a damn good reason why she wants to save the marriage, better start getting your ducks in a row and see an attorney. Don't torture yourself with someone who can't and won't try to understand your anger and pain. Get yourself in a good physical and emotional state. Work on your appearance. Don't let her take you for granted that you are simply going to go quietly into the night and eat the shit sandwich she has served up to you on a platter. It will fester as it did with me. Good luck to you. Be the best husband you can be, but don't be a doormat.

[This message edited by src9043 at 4:57 PM, April 21st (Wednesday)]

asc1226 posted 4/21/2021 16:58 PM

I'm disappointed but to be fair she rarely reads self-help non-fiction.

Should take a couple of hours to get through. Page 5? Page goddamn 5? You shouldn’t be disappointed, you should be pissed off. You’re not being “fair”, you’re excusing her failure to make anything more than a minimal effort.

Thumos posted 4/21/2021 16:59 PM

I bought "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" and I asked her to read it. She read a few pages, bent the corner on like page 5, and there it has sat for a couple months now.


Really, really bad sign. Huge red flag here. My WW at first said this book guilted her. This book is extremely short and can be read in a few hours time. Think about all of the actions, time and energy your WW put into her affair and she can't find a few hours to read this simple book?

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