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Short start here, I'm the BS, WW had two affairs and has struggled to maintain NC since.

Several times in the last six months my wife has insisted on separation or divorce but walks it back every time. It's very hard on me because a lot of hard things are said.

I've had the general feeling that my wife's problem is that she is some combination of nihilist and hedonist. I think that also wars with feelings of responsibility to me and our three kids, and also guilt about her past actions.

I've been telling her for three years (since DDay) that the problems we have that she's asking me to address (my problems that is) are largely window dressing and there's something deeper. She's complained to mental health pros that if she had given me a check list of things she wanted me to change that I had changed every one but that she still wasn't happy.

Fast forward to today - we came back from a short spring break vacation with the kids and she says she's really struggling. That nothing will be ok. That she feels deep loneliness and emptiness and that she's felt this way for five years at least.

I think what she's describing in clinical depression and it runs in her family (dad, siblings, uncle, cousin) and she's treated it with medication in the past but it's robbed her of emotional depth and feeling so she's scared to increase her medication (though she's trying that).

I'm scared too but also hopeful - hopeful we're finally addressing the root cause of her problems for one, but also hopeful that we can finally move forward. Hopefully together.

Has anyone else seen their WS act out because of depression? Does anyone have advice how to proceed? My WW has always practiced distraction or avoidance as coping mechanisms. She's even called her affairs a symptom of her desire for immediate gratification.

I'm just in a hard place guys. Thanks for listening.

She needs to see a specialist. Yesterday. This happened to my first wife and I waited too long. She tried to kill herself before I acted.

She needs to get serious medical intervention. There are combination drug therapies and similar she can try. She needs a major medical intervention.

Sooner is better than later.

It needs to be a psych doc, not a GP.

Yes, mine has depression, eating disorder, is a recovering alcoholic, and is a love/relationship addict. They all run together in her mind and somehow cause the bad behavior she is exhibiting.

I was right where you're at for sure. And I'm finally leaving now.

The thing that I'm going to tell you is that she is the only one who can fix it. You can't. She has to supply the motivation, research, and hard work to fix what's going on. That's the paradox of depression. Nobody can be pulled out of depression by anyone else and depression makes it that much harder for the individual to seek treatment. Even in the case of medication, she has to obtain and take her medicine by herself.

So, while we may have empathy for her, unless she seeks treatment for herself, there isn't anything to be done.

I will say that it does sound a little like she is being open with you about this. Am I getting that right? That's a very good sign if she is being open about these issues.

First, I'd like to address that mental health and disorders can be difficult issues to deal with that often have imperfect solutions. My fWW struggles with generalized anxiety (primarily) and depression. Through her psychiatrist, she has found a combination of drugs that work for her without too much side effects. You might want to see if she can try something else. Especially with depression drugs a side effect can be enhanced depression for some people. If she is on SSRI, maybe try SNRI, if she is on SNRI, maybe go the other way. Sometimes you need the right combination of both. What works is very individual so the "throw shit at the wall and see what sticks" method is valid.

In addition she has regular therapy as well which is currently down to monthly, but has never really been further apart than that.

To some degree you have to cope with the depression. You need to understand she might not be able to control her mood, or that it doesn't reflect reality without putting her down for it. "Look how great things are, you should be happy!" doesn't work and is generally counter productive. "I'm sorry you're feeling down, I'm here for you if you want to talk about it or need anything" is much more useful.

The other thing I'd like to address is this:

nihilist and hedonist.

I find it somewhat, but not entirely, surprising that you haven't dug into her ethical thinking following the A. For many religious people, I supposed it's not necessary. Adultery is on the big bad list of every religion. Is she religious?

If not, I think this is worth following up on. Do her ethics allow cheating? Is she a utilitarian/hedonist with herself as the center and all other pain discounted to zero? I have spent considerable time figuring out my own ethical system and I had to fire a marriage counselor over Kant's categorical imperative. We had a disagreement over whether or not duty exists.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 5:35 PM, April 15th (Thursday)]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. It seems today she is finally starting to deal with these items (both her affairs and her fear about our future) and with help from her family and me is seeking a more aggressive schedule of psychiatric help and therapy.

Addressing what I said was her nihilism and hedonism, she grew up Catholic but I don't believe she clings to or really takes comfort or belief in that faith. She once said to a friend about her affairs "what does it matter? We all end up dead in the ground anyway."

She also wants nothing more than to be happy. To take vacations. Go to resorts. Be comfortable with money. Feel security. Relax.

Anyway, thats addressing what I meant with the nihilism v. hedonism. For myself, I was also raised catholic, wouldn't say I'm of great faith, but I feel a strong moral center/code based around my catholic up-bringing and have always approached my marriage vows as, you know, I meant them. For better or for worse. She once said to me that she was 28 and she wouldn't feel bound by a promise she made 13 years ago.

Tons of fun over here in my home.

I am a WW, many would label reformed WW. I have a completely different take on your situation.

Affairs for some people become an addiction. Like a true addiction. After my affair ended, I could not let it go. In my case two things happened that forced the situation.

1. The AP was the one caught. He obviously dropped me like a hot potato and wanted nothing more to do with me. I have been open about the fact that I would have kept going. Not because he was special, or because there was something wrong with my marriage. There was an addiction to the brain chemicals that were released while having an affair. Without them, I felt lost, hopeless, life did not seem worth living.

For this reason - I will ask - are her AP's married and if so do their spouses know? Tell them immediately. It's a better chance for NC and they do deserve to know. Do not warn her she will tell the APs. It doesn't matter if this makes her angry. Do not be afraid to make her angry.

Sometimes the person is so addicted the first time they transfer that to someone else when the other person will not play the game any more. I did recognize that as a danger and did not act on it.

2. I didn't like who I had become (sounds like your wife is the same) and had a willingness to work on myself. Sounds like that exists. I was miserable.

The thoughts about the affair kept the highs going, and it created an obsessive compulsive situation that sounds like fun I guess but it was absolutely hell and torture in my head. I was treated for OCD and this did help.

The NC is so important because there is no way to get rid of the addiction while you are still smoking the crack pipe. Any contact (even if it's not directly with the AP - allowing thoughts, fantasies, looking at their social media, etc) keeps the addiction going.

I do think your wife needs professional help. Once she is more stable, she will need to figure out how to make herself happy. She is trying to point at external reasons she is not happy and it sounds like she is trying to blame you to an extent as well. This has nothing to do with what you have or haven't done, or who you are or who you are not.

I would advise you to read the 180 and detach as much as possible. I am not suggesting divorce or any of that, that's up to you. But, if you are staying through this you can't ride this ride with her. You need to protect yourself from further damage as much as possible. Get your boundaries and requirements and do not compromise on them. When the reality sinks in that you are not going to cater to her on all of it and that you are going to respect yourself in the situation that will be a positive thing. You can be kind, but you need to really focus on yourself and taking care of yourself.

Read the wikipedia version of limerance. There is a lot there that explains why this is not infatuation, this is much darker than that. And, this is really not hedonism likely either. Affairs are sexual, I am not downplaying that. But, affairs are often more a form of acting out than anything else.

I hope this helps. Please, please, take good care of yourself.

[This message edited by hikingout at 11:11 AM, April 16th (Friday)]

She once said to a friend about her affairs "what does it matter? We all end up dead in the ground anyway."

She once said to me that she was 28 and she wouldn't feel bound by a promise she made 13 years ago.

I wouldn't gloss over this at all, teisen.

You have to dig on this.

I am 100% on board with her metaphysics. We are all worm food. Everything ends in the heat death of the universe with all information destroyed leaving no true permanent meaning to anything. Does this end result mean that we shouldn't be good and kind in our temporary existence? I don't believe that for one second.

She believe promises do not incur duty. She believes current happiness trumps all else. Not just hedonism, but a sort of Cyrenaic. If that's true, she will never be safe if you want fidelity. Just know what you are choosing.

"what does it matter? We all end up dead in the ground anyway."

I'm in agreement. This is a huge red flag that can't be ignored..

Also hikingout, your post is full of wisdom. Thank you for sharing. I never really believed it could be an addiction until I had to go through this mess but it's true.

Dogcopter - no problem. It did make me realize I hadn't said something that I should have:

One thing I will add is the addiction itself is not an excuse for the behavior. Just like a drug user, you don't start using drugs because you are addicted. You start using drugs because you choose to and become addicted. Some people choose to use drugs or have and affair for fun or know they are seeking more sex, some people choose it to escape their life. I kind of think the escapist type is the one more likely to have the addiction.

So, the method would be treat the addiction, then go back and look at root cause. The addiction is the shorter term problem. The longer term problem is whether or not the person is willing to admit there is a root cause, analyze it, and change from it.

All this to say, while I understand and can explain the behavior, it doesn't excuse it at all. It also doesn't stop at just removing the most prevalent problem. People can stop cheating, but that is like getting a D. It's passing but there isn't a lot learned. Often those who do not go on to do the work to get more knowledge will either cheat again in the future or find other forms of acting out.

Your wife is nowhere safe for you right now. Appeasing her with whatever modifications she is asking her to make is not going to fix either problem.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:43 PM, April 16th (Friday)]

Hikingout thank you for your thoughts. I wholeheartedly agree with everything in it and, most importantly, she's not safe for me by any stretch. I would probably be making a different decision but for a two factors:

1. Our three kids (all under 10 and one only 4)

2. I love her.

I will acknowledge, however, that I may be running up against compassion fatigue. She's not gone NC in three years, not really. Those disclosures were extremely painful. Then about March 1 of this year after taking a couple week of in-house separation she said that she wanted a formal separation and that "exploring herself in other relationships" was "too important to her" and she wouldn't let it go.

I started to make plans to separate and divorce and about two days later she came back and with her head hung said she didn't want to break up our family.

It's been a crazy roller coaster. This week we came home from vacation and she's offered a lot of different thoughts/excuses but seems to have finally offered a few nuggets of real truth. In addition to those I shared at the top of the thread, she told me yesterday that:

• Her first affair partner (then married) has since divorced and remarried. Her second affair partner is also attached. How she knows this at all of course is a red flag.

• She never thought (in the last three years) that we would "make it." She says she's struggling today because she realizes she really wants us to make it but is so unhappy and wants to stop being unhappy.

I don't honestly know how I've been able to continue as long as I have. She's broken every promise she's ever made to me including since I found out about the affairs. She's told me she wants separation, wants divorce. I've always just tried to either push back or, in the end, agreed to separation only to have her walk that back as well. I remember I told her that she needed to look at her history of cheating on her first boyfriend, then on me, then on her first affair partner and her response was "sucks to be the next guy." I just kept quietly insisting that she needed to really look at her behavior.

Today, I hope, we're finally starting to get to the heart of the issue. Instead of her friends "supporting" her, several family members have finally engaged and are addressing the family history. Her uncle, father and cousin have all struggled with severe clinical depression and not even her mother is making excuses for her any longer. We're all getting her into psychiatric care which is really the first thing we need to do before we can even see if the relationship is salvageable.

This has all been so extremely difficult on me. I've had some pretty huge burdens handed to me by my WW, I've had her mother basically say, she's a mess, I only now realize how much, you're stronger than she is, you have to hold her up as long as you can. That said it often feels like I'm bearing a great deal of this alone.

Hikingout thank you for your thoughts. I wholeheartedly agree with everything in it and, most importantly, she's not safe for me by any stretch. I would probably be making a different decision but for a two factors:

1. Our three kids (all under 10 and one only 4)

2. I love her.

Here's the reality - if she's not safe, it's only a matter of time before a D happens. She could be the one to file. There will come a day when she decides not to walk back that threat of separation. There will come a day when she believes she has found your replacement. You will still have kids and you will still love her and now things are worse than ever before. Even if you don't leave, you absolutely should be preparing for it. Going to IC. Getting information from a lawyer. Figuring out what you would do if she walked out and served you papers tomorrow. NOT taking baby steps towards maybe something like R happening because if she was capable of turning this around and R'ing with you, she would have already. Anything a family member says and does will at best look like something and then quickly turn into nothing just like every other R attempt has gone for you.

Guess what? There's a "next woman" for you too and if you don't sufficiently address why you've held on so long while getting so little in return, why you love someone who hurts you and disrespects you, and why you've struggled to put yourself first, you too will be just like the "next guy" you feel sorry for because you're very likely to choose another woman like her. Even if you don't do a single thing on the S/D front right now, you're not doing yourself any favors by choosing to skip out on healing and bettering yourself.

[This message edited by nekonamida at 10:07 AM, April 17th (Saturday)]

I'm not telling you what to do. Based on what you have said she will almost certainly cheat again and again for the rest of her life. Nihilistic hedonist seems right.

Hikingout gave you such a good description of what it’s like to be in the throes of an addiction of any kind. Most people I know who have cheated suffered from some sort of sadness or depression. The worse the sadness the easier it is to look outward. Consider this. Experts say that depression can be like any other pain from 0 to 10. 10 is euphoria. Zero is suicide. If your wife lives at a three or four to her there is nothing on the horizon except affairs. She could just as easily have tried some sort of cocaine addiction. In the end it is self medicating. Those of us who live at eight, and occasionally nine, panic when we get sad because we aren’t used to it, it’s scary. People who live with chronic depression grab anything. This is no excuse and it’s certainly no reason to stay but you do have children you must make decisions about.

Depression can be treated but it is still sometimes not just day by day but hour by hour. The interesting thing to me is that I read primitive societies do not even have a word for depression. I guess life is hard enough that they work a whole day just to eat so there is no room to ruminate. There is an enormous amount of information floating around about the true detrimental effect television has had on us through the years and now we have Sooo many ways to show off. It’s ludicrous that we are still so subjected to outside influences. We think we have free will but we don’t. Every message we see that shows happy joyful people is a slap at us if we’re not living that life. As a woman I have always been offended that in order to sell a car there is a woman in a bathing suit right over the hood. Sex in cars. Evidently that’s what was selling to men. What women can live up to that. The average woman is average. Your wife needs help and the first thing I would suggest is getting her off of any media.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 10:43 AM, April 17th (Saturday)]

I hear everyone's comments about the potential inevitability of D. I just want to make clear that I'm prepared for it. I have a plan. I've already spoken with a divorce attorney.

I just take my promise to her and my duty to her and my children very seriously. So far I've stuck in here. If it comes to it I'll be prepared to move on.

I told a friend that my first test as to how I can be a good and kind person was my reaction to learning what she had done. My second test will be to continue to be a loving and kind person to her if we divorce. I hope, if it comes to that, I can be a good and kind person still.

You also need to be good and kind to yourself.

Your wife doesn't believe in duty. You do. This is a massive ethical chasm. You don't have to set yourself on fire to keep her warm.

Teisen, I want you to really think about what it means to be a kind person. Are BSes who file for D right away not kind people? Are BSes who get angry on DDay not kind people? Does filing for D mean that a BS is not committed to duty or their kids?

I'm not saying that you think a certain negative way about BSes who act differently than you do. At least I hope you don't. I'm guessing you haven't really thought about it and maybe you haven't read too many threads about good, committed, and kind BSes who made different choices than you. I think that may be worth exploring why you can accept one BS doing what they need to do and how it's NOT a reflection of how nice and good they are vs the standard you hold yourself to. Why is there only one correct way to behave in your book? Why do others get the freedom to choose without judgment but you don't?

Sometimes I think these types of thoughts and feelings have very little to do with our own personal coding and more to do with after-the-fact justification. I doubt that you were focusing on how to be the most kind and good on DDay. I think you made some decisions out of fear - fear of D, fear for the kids, fear of change - and later attributed a different meaning to it otherwise you'd look down on BSes who didn't react as kindly as you did on DDay. If kindness is so important that it completely overrides any pain, humiliation, and disrespect a BS may feel that leads to less-than-kind outcomes, if kindness is more important than the self, then your views about it wouldn't just start and stop with you, would it? It would be a core value you apply to any and all situations of infidelity. But because I'm guessing you don't hold others to the same standards that you hold to yourself, it's not really a core value of yours that your moral compass is based on. Nor do you hold your WW to the same standard or even really begrudge her for repeatedly endangering you and the kids with her infidelity. Somehow all of the responsibility falls on your shoulders to be kinder, nicer, and to hold the family together.

This is why you need IC. These issues with fear, control, and lack of ability to put yourself first don't just go away when your WW leaves. They stick around and wreak havoc in your next relationship. They impact the way that you separate. And most sadly, they have a profoundly negative affect on your kids by showing them that marriage is about self sacrifice and that in the future, they will need to hold themselves to that impossibly high standard of "niceness" otherwise they are cruel and bad spouses by having what most people would consider a healthy reaction to abuse (aka 180, boundaries, consequences, separation). Or they'll take after your WW and see that the only way not to be taken advantage of and live in fear and discomfort like you are is to be supremely selfish at all costs and control the direction of the relationship with threats as opposed to the healthier path of taking responsibility of self betterment for the sake of your marriage.

At best, you're sending a strongly unhealthy message about what a marriage looks like that will require them to train themselves out of potentially with therapy. At worst, your aiding in setting them up to be in a situation just like yours and to be just as stuck and miserable for years. It's not too late to change the narrative but it starts with changing yourself before all else. It starts with getting healthy and pursuing self betterment regardless of what your WW does or doesn't do. The good choices and reactions to future poor behavior of hers WILL follow when you get stronger.

[This message edited by nekonamida at 12:02 PM, April 17th (Saturday)]

teisen,

The more I read your story, the more it sounds like what I've gone through. I hung in there 5 years. I went through denial and bargaining over and over and over again until I was sick physically, emotionally, spiritually.

I don't know the way out of it for you; eventually, you will have to come to a place of acceptance so that you can move on. But the road there is unclear and treacherous.

Keep plodding along and try to find the serenity wherever you can, brother.

Nekonamida,

That's some really good feedback. I am DEFINITELY in IC and have been for well over a year.

I will say that I don't have any judgement or look down in any way on any BSs that acted differently than I did. I have just tried to follow what my heart told me to do. On DDay I really struggled for about twelve hours - stayed awake all night - and I have a lot of the things I wrote in those hours but the repeated theme was forgiveness and love. That was my choice. I have chosen it so actively that I really struggle to create boundaries and for my WW to have any real consequences to her actions. When she asked for a separation March 1 I initially resisted but then said OK and started to walk down that road. She pulled back then and it's taken until this week for her to have what appears to be a complete mental breakdown.

I have a tremendous amount of fear. But that fear is mostly grounded in what she may or may not do next, not that the marriage may end but that I'll feel more pain. I'm open-eyed that as long as I stay I'm putting myself at risk of that.

I'm trying to give her every chance. I just keep trying to listen to what my heart is telling me. So far that's where I've found the serenity dogcopter is referencing; I sleep through the night all night every night. It's not drug assisted. I don't have nightmares. Career has been going well. I'm healthy. I'm not sure what self-care looks like for me but I know I still need to do a lot of work in IC.

Also, it's good to hear all of these comments. I'm glad to have a community that is supportive and also challenging.

I have chosen it so actively that I really struggle to create boundaries and for my WW to have any real consequences to her actions.

Like I said, it's because your personal standards of kindness and goodness are diametrically opposed to boundaries and consequences. NOT because of something intrinsic to kindness and goodness. We agree - good, kind BSes can set boundaries and still be good and kind. Boundaries are not inherently cruel and evil. It's simply hard right now because you FEEL like boundaries are not kind and good. Perhaps because you fear what happens when you enact them. If your WW responds poorly to them, obviously that brings you closer to D and further from R which might happen. The opposite could happen too where your WW realizes if she wants to stay married, she will need to abide by your boundaries and she starts following the new rules. But regardless of what she does or doesn't do, the boundaries have a very important affect - keeping you safer.

But that fear is mostly grounded in what she may or may not do next, not that the marriage may end but that I'll feel more pain.

Here's something you need to understand - it doesn't matter WHY your WW is doing this. Yes, she needs to figure that out in order to fix herself but it doesn't matter to YOU why she does this. Imagine you're standing in front of a psycho with a knife. Do you care why the psycho keeps stabbing you? If the psycho stabber genuinely can't help themselves but stab you, does it suddenly hurt less when you get stabbed? Do you bleed less? Do you have a better shot at surviving multiple stab wounds? No, of course not. If you want to not be stabbed, you move out of the way.

Your WW is holding the knife of infidelity. She keeps stabbing you. "But she's sad!" She stabs you. "But she's depressed!" She stabs you. "She can't help it!" She stabs you. If you stand still and keep giving her every opportunity to stab you, do you know what's going to happen? She's going to stab you. She's going to stab you until she puts down the knife and makes a valiant effort through IC and self-reflection to never pick the knife up ever again. But until then, she's going to stab you. And stab you. And stab you. Until you move. Maybe, just maybe, if you move away, she'll miss you and put the knife down. But until then, she's going to stab you.

She pulled back then and it's taken until this week for her to have what appears to be a complete mental breakdown.

Ok, so now she's holding the knife and crying. You know what's going to happen when she stops crying? She's going to stab you. She needs to put down the knife and get help before she can stop stabbing you OR you need to move away and stop standing in her stabbing zone. That hasn't happened yet.

I just keep trying to listen to what my heart is telling me.

You might not like this but you have to take a step back. Ok, let's say your heart is a friend who gives you financial advice. You follow their advice, you lose money. You follow their advice again, you lose money. You keep following their advice and you keep losing money. If your heart was a person giving you advice and after years of following their advice you are no closer to your goal than where you started, would you keep listening to them? If listening to your heart has bought you 2+ years in infidelity, multiple DDays, multiple broken NC, and a recent serious threat from your WW for S/D, then do you think your heart gives the best advice for how to get out of infidelity and how to R? Doesn't sound like it.

So far that's where I've found the serenity dogcopter is referencing; I sleep through the night all night every night. It's not drug assisted. I don't have nightmares. Career has been going well. I'm healthy. I'm not sure what self-care looks like for me but I know I still need to do a lot of work in IC.

Gently, if everything was going great for you and you had no qualms about where your marriage was at right now, you wouldn't be here posting about it. Dogcopter isn't talking the small moments of day-to-day serendipity that you find in spite of a bad situation. He's talking about something greater - something it sounds like it's been so long since you've felt that you probably can't remember what it feels like - inner peace and lasting security.

It's impossible to feel that way when you're still mired in infidelity, experiencing threats of S/D, and dealing with your WW's unpredictable stabby nature because you don't live in a peaceful, secure environment. You're simply getting used to feeling frequent bouts of fear and insecurity to the point where you're no longer suffering from sleep issues. It's like spending a couple hours in the monkey cage. At first it smells terrible but after a while it's not that bad. Spend years in there and you won't even remember how bad it was the first time you walked in. You may even forget it smells at all.

If your brain didn't filter out how bad some of this is, you'd go crazy. It's safer for you to rugsweep the general misery than feel the full effects of it. Unfortunately, this is a very common response to repeated trauma and even worse - the pain doesn't just disappear because you don't feel it. It lingers and lays low until you start to feel safe enough to process it and BAM! It hits you all at once. You're likely going to be dealing with intense bouts of pain and discomfort for some time after your WW leaves too because you'll finally be ready to face it.

About your IC - what IS it doing for you? What has changed for you in the last year? You don't have to answer it here but really think about it. You know that you're in bad situation. You don't know how to get out of it. You know that you can only change yourself and not your WS but you still frequently fall back into old habits of focusing on her and not yourself. You know that if you want to stop getting stabbed, you need to set a boundary and move out of the way but you're no closer to that today than you seemed to be a year ago. Are you really facing these issues and confronting them in IC? Or has it become more of a "problem of the week" deal where you only look at your surface issues and slap a band aid on whatever feels bad today instead of digging in to how you can eliminate some of the root causes of these issues? Are you digging into your FOO and figuring out why you are so adverse to boundaries in the first place?

If the answer is no to any of the above and/or a yes to "problem of the week" therapy, then you have two options:

1. Recommit to the same therapist with a new goal. Tell them you need to focus on boundaries and getting unstuck. Follow through with the hard work and introspection that entails. Do the homework and ask for more. Read the books. Watch the videos. Listen to the podcasts. Make a real effort to make traction happen.

2. Find a new therapist willing to focus on real solutions to your problems and self growth.

You can have the best therapist in the world and still see no progress because you're not ready to take their advice, dig deep, and make changes. You can also be 110% committed to change and still be derailed by a therapist who will only be superficial with you and will only solve surface day-to-day issues as they arise. Sometimes a normally good counselor will see their patient's resistance to confronting hard problems and will go down the rabbit hole with them about solving smaller, less pressing issues as a way to deflect from doing the real work and they don't have a plan for getting their patient back on track. We have no idea which kind of issue you have but in 1 year of therapy, you SHOULD be seeing traction. In 3 months of therapy even, you SHOULD be seeing progress made. It's been a year and it sounds like not much has changed. More therapy as it is right now is not going to change that either. And in the mean time, she will keep stabbing you.

[This message edited by nekonamida at 1:36 PM, April 17th (Saturday)]