SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Some of this should be worked out with the examiner but things that would matter most to you. That help give you closure.

Did you have sex, oral or piv, with AP?

Was this your only affair?

Is your timeline correct?

Did you ever tell AP you loved him?

Were you ever considering leaving Mr. Fibble for AP?

[This message edited by grubs at 8:10 AM, March 24th (Wednesday)]

Ok, she just sent me a confirmational email for a poly in 5 weeks, could not be done sooner. I have 10 yes/no questions which I need to send them at least a week in advance for their input. I told her it doesn't change anything but she wants to do it anyway. Ideas?

10 is a lot of questions. Most do 3 or 4. The less questions testing for truth, the more accurate the results. See if you can call/email the place and speak to the administrator directly about if you can shorten it down to a few questions. Typically a good administrator will recommend catch-all questions like these:

1. Have you been honest and forthcoming with Mr. Fibbles about details regarding the physical aspects of your relationship with OM?

2. Is the information provided on the timeline you have given to Mr. Fibbles accurate and complete to the best of your knowledge?

Your best bet will be to have her given you a written account/timeline of the A and then ask if she was honest about it and maybe 1 or 2 additional specific questions thrown in about hot topic issues like if she had sex with OM.

Ok, she just sent me a confirmational email for a poly in 5 weeks, could not be done sooner. I have 10 yes/no questions which I need to send them at least a week in advance for their input. I told her it doesn't change anything but she wants to do it anyway. Ideas?

Make an anonymous call the the poly service and ask them when their next available appointment is. Tell them it is very time sensitive. See if you can catch her in yet another lie. She may be stalling for more time to wear you down. I am sure she is well aware of your moments of weakness. Seems like you really need to firm up your 180 implementation.
Is the timeline she provided extremely detailed? It ought to be. Sit her down and ask for a minute by minute of each time she went to his home. How did she pick out her outfit? Did she shower and carefully groom before going? What happened in the first and last 15 minutes she was in his house? ... The details of those events will be her undoing. I can almost promise you that.
Nobody gets a burner phone without committing to the highest levels of marital transgression.

A side question from a while back, did it turn out that one of the AP's other women his wife had told you about was really your wife and her burner phone, like at the motel? I missed it if you confirmed it.

MrF. Keep the questions to the yes/no, such as;

Did you engage in penetrative or oral sex with <AP> ?

If you ask questions directly relating to AP then the question should contain his full name not just a reference to him.

She will be prepared for / expecting the obvious questions relating to oral or penetrative sex or questions about her timeline so definitely ask if she has had any other inappropriate relationships, either emotional or physical, during your marriage.

I understand that, no matter if she passes, your mind is made up but at least if she does pass you can have closure.

Mr. F - you may also want to check the browser history on her cell phone and computer(s) to see if WW has researched about how to defeat/trick a polygraph. That, in and of itself, will provide a quick answer.

Make an anonymous call the the poly service and ask them when their next available appointment is. Tell them it is very time sensitive. See if you can catch her in yet another lie. She may be stalling for more time to wear you down.

Would second this excellent advice given to you Mr.Fibble.

Your wife has done nothing but attempt to stall the inevitable - divorce.

[This message edited by smolderingdark at 1:24 PM, March 24th (Wednesday)]

10 is a lot of questions. Most do 3 or 4

It's 5 or 10 questions. But it looks like they are pretty flexible on that. I will get in touch with them this week.

Make an anonymous call the the poly service and ask them when their next available appointment is. Tell them it is very time sensitive.

Sorry but could you tell me why should I do that? I have seen all the communication (and I was a part of it few weeks back) so I know the possible schedule at the moment. It all depends on government restrictions, not on my wife's whim. Or maybe I misunderstood the reasoning, sorry.

But my 180 is a weak one, I will give you that. I said before I have troubles detaching and it's still true. But I am working on it. We went over those two visits over and over again, and I highly doubt anything more will willingly come out of it. She either really told me everything or she will continue with her lies until the end. I don't see any other options really.

And she knows any kind of stalling or obstructing is pointless. The divorce will happen, either amicably in May or through court battle. But it will happen no matter what.

Mr F, I'd ask the following questions

1. Have you had any sexual acts performed on you or did you performed any sexual acts on others, other than Mr. F during the marriage. (Sex includes PIV, Anal, oral, Hand Jobs, or any other act that could result in someone getting an orgasm) (I didn't say AP, because it would cover anyone else also)

2. Have you ever conceal any inappropriate relationships, other than what you have told Mr F, during your marriage?

3. Have you concealed any facts about your time line from Mr F. This includes electing not to put certain actions on the timeline, inaccurate actions on timeline or misleading actions on timeline.

4. Other than Mr F or Doctors, has any other men had you in the same space, one on one with you partially naked or fully naked or have you sent photos of you "nudes" whether topless or bottomless to others while you have been married to Mr. F

5. Did you love your AP?

Those would be my questions. I wouldn't tell her in advance what they were. I would save #5 for last as it would be a shock. You need to have them word it so it covers the possibility she's cheated with others.

Mr. F. - Again I am sorry you are going thru this. I would be willing to bet a lot of money she will fail the test.

[This message edited by Txquail at 5:30 PM, March 24th (Wednesday)]

Is the polygraph company the most suitable for you? If not, check out if your wife or a friend of hers has an acquaintance in the company. I am saying this because I don't know your country. In some cultures, work can be done for the sake of acquaintances. (Remember how SH got fired from his jobs.)

She knows that some questions will definitely be asked. Check her browser to see if she has done research on how to pass the poly test.

Although it is said that the Poly test will not change anything, she thinks she will have a chance for R when she passes it. TBH, I guess she is right to think that way.

Actually, if what she told is really all, I would consider it foolish not to confess it all at once.

When I think of the second hause going incident, as a man, for example, if a woman I have kissed and played with many times before came to my house to have sex, and we started to make love I wouldn't just say "okay" and leave it when she said "no, I can't" hesitantly. I would try to convince her by seducing. We can't know how it turned out, but that story couldn't have ended that way, at least SH must have made attempts.

There are many things that make think us there is more, but who knows? I would very much like it to have stayed with just that.

Sorry but could you tell me why should I do that? I have seen all the communication (and I was a part of it few weeks back) so I know the possible schedule at the moment.

If you are working from forwarded communications it could easily be altered to support any narrative she wants. She has proven her skill at deception and evasion. Literally any information that passes through her hands or mouth to your eyes or ears is suspect. Only you can be the judge of whether the information you have is accurate, but how many times have you been wrong. (Rhetorical question)

And someone mentioned possibly having connections to the poly service. I have been reading infidelity threads long enough to have read about a few instances of poly services "gone wild".

First of all, do your due diligence to make sure that the polygraph service is legitimate. Maybe even find your own and decide to go with them instead.

Just the fact that your wife found it gives me pause because you don't know how she framed the situation.

The other side of it - 10 questions is about 6 questions too many for any kind of standard consumer polygraph I have heard of.

***

Outside of that, my advice is to use the polygraph as "pressure", to get as much of the the "truth" out of your wife before the actual polygraph day.

As I mentioned above I would ask her a boatload of specific questions, to which she can answer yes, no. She might also answer "I don't remember" but do not offer that option, as it generally equals that she does know and is scared to tell you the truth.

I would tell her that the polygraph will be used to verify her answer on the "Question and Answer Document" as a whole, as in, did you lie on any of the 100 questions I had you answer on the Q&A document?

Remember, liars try to "lie technically". She told you she had never been to a hotel with him, but she had been to his house. See? Technically true!

++++++++++++++++++++++

++++++++++++++++++++++

++++++++++++++++++++++

The Q&A document could go like this (The question will get graphic, for those who may be scandalized)

Every question will be prefaced with: "During our courtship and marriage"

Have you had any affairs, inappropriate, or secret relationship with anyone?

Elaborate.

How many times?

Have you been naked in the presence of any other men?

Elaborate.

How many times?

Have you been partially clothed or in a state of undress in the presence of any other men?

Elaborate.

How many times?

Have you let any other men put their arm around you, as in your shoulder, waist etc.?

Elaborate.

How many times?

Have you let any other men touch your breasts either over or under your clothing?

Elaborate.

How many times?

Have you let any other men touch your behind either over or under your clothing?

Elaborate.

How many times?

Have you let any other men touch you between your legs either over or under your clothing?

Elaborate.

How many times?

Have you kissed any other men on the cheek or lips?

Have you kissed any other men where tongues touched or any saliva was exchanged?

Elaborate.

How many times?

Have you made contact or rubbed private areas with any men? (Define but not limit: private areas to face, backside, breasts, vagina, penis, etc.)

Elaborate.

How many times?

Have you engaged in any sexual act with any men? (Define but not limit: Any kind of penetration or activity in sexual zones and nature, and does not have to be naked.)

Elaborate.

How many times?

And on and on: List the places you have been with him in private and don't leave anything out no matter if it was innocent or not, Where did you go with him, did you badmouth or downtalk me, did you tell him you love him or any other form of that statement, etc.

***

I know it is excruciating. However, when you are dealing with cheating liars they pretty much will not tell the truth unless they are cornered.

That is why it is imperative that you ask these questions as specifically as possible, and make her write down the answers!

Even then, she will lie. But it will build the pressure as you get to the polygraph.

I also second what others have said about checking her browser history etc. to see if she has researched how to attempt beat a polygraph.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 5:34 PM, March 24th (Wednesday)]

It's 5 or 10 questions. But it looks like they are pretty flexible on that. I will get in touch with them this week.

Ask them how long their interview session is too and how many years of experience they have. Ask them about how the handle infidelity cases. Get a good feel for it.

I know this other BH on another forum who got scammed by a polygrapher who allowed 10-20 questions and did the test in under 15 minutes at the BH's house after asking him to leave. No idea what happened in those 10-15 minutes but it sure as hell wasn't whatever happens in the 90+ minutes of what goes on at a legitimate testing facility. I don't suspect your WW of lying but I think to be safe you should get some more information on the administrator before you agree to anything.

MrFlibble, I'll relate how the poly my XWW took went. I've also talked in person with others who have used the poly.

The polygraph administrator I used had extensive experience. He did work for law enforcement, corporations and personal.

I had a list of questions that I wanted to test for the truth. The poly graph examiner really wanted only 3 but went with 4 for me. We sat in an interview room with my XWW, myself the examiner and his assistant and went over the questions. He boiled the questions down to the 4 he was going to use. They were developed in front of my XWW and myself and were developed with my approval.

The examiner left the room to draft the questions. I think he went into an adjoining room with a one way mirror. The assistant, myself and my XWW were in the interview room and the assistant engaged us in conversation.

The examiner came back and we went over the questions. I wasn't quite happy with them. Reformulated them. He left the interview room and repeat. Came back and I was happy enough. One question was not quite what I wanted but didn't know how to get around it. It was about a start date of a timeline which my XWW suggested. It should have been earlier.

Once I was happy with the questions I was asked to leave the building and be gone for an hour. The examination room was sound proofed and devoid of any visual stimulus at all. The XWW has hooked up. The examiner asked questions in a slow monotone voice. The 4 questions were asked 4 times with a brief pause between questions. A question from the examiner that was a surprise to the XWW was asked in each round. The 4 questions were asked in random order for each round.

I don't know how an examination could be done at a persons residence with all the distractions and stimulus. I would be concerned about the process the examiner was going to use. Ask him about it but don't let your WW know. She will know about the questions before the examination but not the process.

The examiner I used was very professional. He wore a sport jacket and tie. Competence exuded out of him.

My XWW passed the exam - 4 questions - with flying colours. The exam, when well performed, will only determine whether a specific yes or no question was answered truthfully. It won't reveal any other truths. It can reveal a lie was told about a specific question like "have you had any other intimate act other than with me and POS" but not what the truth is.

The polygraph is only a tool in a toolbox to use for certain things. It isn't the end all or be all. I didn't get a parking lot confession. Many do. We are divorced.

I probably get roasted here but here we go.

Mr. F,

If I am not mistaken, chances of R with your WW after the D is slim to none. So what you are trying to get out of the polygraph.? If she fails, then it reinforces your decision to D with no chance for R. Check.

But what if she passes the poly? Would it plant a tiny seed of doubt in your head that maybe, just maybe your decision to D may not be something you really want?

I am just saying why inject drama when your decision is final and poly results won't change your mind. If results don't matter, why bother?

I am not advocating D or R only you can decide but honestly I was rooting for you and your wife to make it.

Best of luck.

The poly is the one I picked up from before, It's reasonably close and has a great reviews. The guy she's in contact with sounds like he knows his stuff and is a professional. They apparently deal mostly with employees (like theft and fraud at the workplace) but said there are a few instances of infidelity they have dealt with before. I don't think there is anyone better, I am even surprised that this service is offered around here. It all looks legit, it's not a guy with a machine from Wish that goes ping!, He said the whole process will take a few hours and they have a real office not far from here. All confirmed before I said I don't care for the poly anymore. So no, I am not being set up.

Also, she offered to do it twice with 2 different companies if I don't feel satisfied after the first run. So I don't think there is anything fishy going on there.

Remember how SH got fired from his jobs.

For the record, SH was not fired because I told my contacts there to fire him. He was fired because he is a lying, documents forging idiot. He dug his own grave, I just told theme where that grave is. He makes it so easy it's almost not all that fun. One thing I realized last night is that I hope I didn't shot myself in my own leg, because I didn't realize that he just lost his job in a city few hours away and he just might come back here to live off his parents again. I doubt he will try to contact my W again, but I will have to be on a lookout

faithfulman That document thing is a sound advice. I haven't thought of that. But to be honest, I feel like I am pulling myself back into this mess even thought I told myself I won't do this again.

I have an access to all her devices, all the passwords. But, and it's a HUGE but, she had a burner phone. And if she wanted to google something a simple anonymous tab would do. I do not have a keylogger on her laptop nor any kind of spyware on her phone. Maybe it's a mistake, but I am not playing a marriage police. I would rather not go this way.

steadychevyThank you for that. The feeling I get from past communication with the guy is pretty similar to what you describe here. So I hope it's a good sign.

If I am not mistaken, chances of R with your WW after the D is slim to none. So what you are trying to get out of the polygraph.? If she fails, then it reinforces your decision to D with no chance for R. Check.

You are right, at the moment chances of R are basicaly nonexistent. I told her before I no longer see a point in doing the poly, but she wants to do it anyway. So why don't do it on my terms, what have I to lose?

But what if she passes the poly? Would it plant a tiny seed of doubt in your head that maybe, just maybe your decision to D may not be something you really want?

That tiny seed is alredy there. I think you all know that, that's why I have been sitting on a fence for a while now. But make no mistake, the D is inevitable, what's still a little uncertain is a possibility of any kind of future R. If she's still lying we are done for good

Also, my FIL wants to meet today, not sure what to expect.

But make no mistake, the D is inevitable, what's still a little uncertain is a possibility of any kind of future R. If she's still lying we are done for good

Also, my FIL wants to meet today, not

The poly is helpful if she fails as that will remove most doubt of the outcome from both your minds. That little seed of doubt will bbcimr a much larger seed for both of you if she passes. That in itself will be a test of her true remorse. Does she get angry at you for not giving her a chance or accept her being at fault for the carnage?

Can't see where meeting with the FIL is going to be anything but awkward.

faithfulman That document thing is a sound advice. I haven't thought of that. But to be honest, I feel like I am pulling myself back into this mess even thought I told myself I won't do this again.

Mr Flibble, if there is one mistake I can say you have made, it is not taking action to secure information because you were standing on principle, and didn't believe a marriage could/should survive spying etc.

And you might be right!

But the point of getting information is for you. To give you the knowledge you need to make your decisions and remove to doubt, to feel confident in your course of action.

It's not to late for keyloggers and the like. It may be exhausting, but it's more exhausting to sit in doubt for years to come, whether you choose to divorce and your wife denies vehemently that she did anything wrong, or if you stay together and you believe your wife fucked another man but you don't have the evidence and she will never tell.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 8:13 AM, March 25th (Thursday)]

I probably get roasted here but here we go.

Mr. F,

If I am not mistaken, chances of R with your WW after the D is slim to none. So what you are trying to get out of the polygraph.? If she fails, then it reinforces your decision to D with no chance for R. Check.

But what if she passes the poly? Would it plant a tiny seed of doubt in your head that maybe, just maybe your decision to D may not be something you really want?

I am just saying why inject drama when your decision is final and poly results won't change your mind. If results don't matter, why bother?

I am not advocating D or R only you can decide but honestly I was rooting for you and your wife to make it.

Best of luck.

I'm not going to roast you. However *IF* I was currently in Mr F's situation, I'd want to know. Not that it would change my mind, but give me the knowledge that I wanted to know all along.

His WW has lied to him. She continued to lie to him by tickle truth. I can totally understand he's fed up with it. They've been together a while and he deserves to know the truth.

Again, if I was in his position, it wouldn't have changed my mind on the divorce, but I would want to know the truth. Lots of things just don't add up. The burner phone, talking about having sex at his home, allowing him to feel her up, the coaching on how to hide the affair, sending him photo's on her burner phone, the visits to his home, the meetups in the car and then to have his WW say no sex ever happened? (I find that really REALLY hard to buy). When I was younger and dating, if a woman did all the above (Meeting in my car for make-out sessions, feeling me up, sending me texts, sending me revealing photos, talk about having sex with me at my home, then going to my home at least twice... Yeah, it would have happened.)

[This message edited by Txquail at 8:02 AM, March 25th (Thursday)]

About the posting on "HOW" HR can fire an employee for an affair. Well, my STBXW was fired because the AP's wife called the hospital "LOOKING" for her and they called that "WORKPLACE VIOLENCE" and canned her ass.