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My wife cheated on me with her coworker. What now

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MrFlibble posted 1/2/2021 11:02 AM

Hi,

I have posted my story on another forum but I hope I might get better advice on here. I am sorry this is so long, part of it is copy&paste of my original posts since I want you to have full picture. Sorry if it's a little confusing

So here we go..

I (33) have been married to my wife (34) for more than 10 years, together almost 13. We have 2 small children.

After almost 6 years of being SAHM my wife went back to work. I was 100% for it, even though she assured me she's happy being at home with kids she needed a change. So she found a job in her field (banking) and even thought the transition wasn't all that smooth we got back into our routine pretty fast.

The only issue I had with this was her "relationship" with one of her male coworkers (27). I will call him OM to keep it simple.

It all started with occasional text and moved to texting almost every day (dozens of texts every day) and spending time together (about which she lied). When I raised my concerns I was hit with the infamous "we are just friends" and "you are controlling". You know the drill.

I met him once when I visited my wife at work and all my meters went off the charts - the looks between them, awkward silence when I was near, you know what I mean. After that day I was pretty sure something was going on.

This went on for a few months during which we were fighting almost every day. I kept telling her this puts an insane amount of pressure on our marriage but I was always shot down because "nothing is going on". I admit I went through her phone once and found that they text each other EVERY DAY mostly about normal stuff, nothing sexual, but it was obvious some text were deleted and some messages were very personal.

I couldn't take it anymore. So I told her we need to talk. Here is how it went (copy&paste from my original post)

CONFRONTATION

Tonight after we put kids to bed I sat down my wife and told her that even though I might not look like it, this situation is eating me alive. She was obviously annoyed that I am not over this obsession and got angry at me again. I right away asked to see her phone and explained again why is this whole situation making me question status of their relationship. She told me this is invasion of her privacy but in the end gave up.
 
Well guess what. All messages between the two GONE. DELETED. There wasn't a single one. Even those innocent and work related. I was speechless. I asked her why she did that and what she thinks this stupid move is going to accomplish. Her reasoning is that I basicaly made her delete it all and that she stopped all communications with him other than work related. I knew she was lying.
 
At that moment I was not even angry, just very disappointed in her and even more hurt. We were going in circles for over an hour. I remembered your advice to not confront without evidence and keep digging and said to myself "there you go you moron, should've listended"
 
All this time I had her phone right in front of me on a table, going through it time and time again. And guess who deicided to text my wife at 10:13pm. His text was short, but still enough. It went "cant stop thinking about you. Hope you are ok". I just looked down where her phone lit, read the message and looked up at my wife. Wish I could snap a picture of her face. She knew it was him. I just stood up, went upstairs into our walk-in closet, pull out my bag and started packing stuff. She was right behind spitting BS like I took that wrong, it's not like I think it is and so on. I have never seen her so desperate in my life. Truly heartbreaking.
 
Didn't say a word to her, just took my bag and went for a door. She blocked them with her body and kept asking me where I am going. I was done with this at that point so I just told her to not contact me until she pulls her head out of her arse and starts thinking straight and I turned around and went through back door and jumped on a first bus that i saw. So now I am sitting on a bench in a part of city I have never been to in 6 degrees freezing my ass and waiting for my friend/collegue who is so amazing that he is picking me in his car and letting me stay the night.

After our confrontation I had to come back home because due to the Covid restrictions I had nowhere to go. My W tried to talk to me many times, but I was not ready. It took me few days but in the end I wanted to know the truth.

CONFESSION

For those of you who don't want to get too deep into this I give you a short version:

My wife and coworker HAD an affair. 

Or at least what i would call EA starting to morph into full blown PA

She admits They kissed (or made-out) twice, and that's it.
First time happened few days before i met him. That's probably why they were so weird around me. She said it happened in an elevator on their way back from one of their lunch dates. He just came onto her and she just went with it(Her words)

She says she immedietly knew it was wrong and told him it was a mistake and It won't happen again. He just told her "We'll see about that". 
He was right, but still is shithead
 
Second time they spend 10 minutes making out in his car after work. This was late August. We started WFH in September.

There was no physical contact or even meeting in person after that.

Asked her how can she prove it was just that and it never went all the way. She was taken back by this, never thought about it, but after a moment replied she will find a way.

She is very fixated on a fact that they never had sex. Not that he didn't try to push it apparently. She says he wanted to, she didn't. Not sure if I believe that. Probably don't. It doesn't seem very probable that two adult people in an affair would not have sex. There were opportunities. 

When I asked her why she didn't want to have sex with him she told me she knew there was no coming back after that.
No idea what's that supposed to mean. Any input on that?
Maybe she does see through me and knows where my lines are more than I do.

Also called her out on this shitty move - introducing me to a guy she made-out with (or maybe had sex with) few days before.
 
After this came breakdown number one. So we went out to catch a breath and came back in a few minutes. 
I asked her multiple times again if she is sure they didn't have sex. Resolut NO every time. Told her should I found out at any point in a future they had sex i won't think twice about leaving.
 
Texting:
They had been texting a lot, starting basically second week he came into picture. Mostly about innocent stuff but she admits now it was sometimes (read often) over the line. It slowly progressed from friendly to more intimate topics. She admits she kept deleting messages or whole conversations that were by her standards "too much".

I did not took this well and we had to have another break.
Apparently coworker was the instigator of most (but not all) inappropriate conversations. I told her It takes two to do this dance and that She is as guilty as he is, maybe even more. He isn't married to me, she is. She gave me the weakest "I know" I have ever heard. 
 
She says they stopped texting few times but always got back to it. They didn't text much these last two weeks. 
I then asked her about the text I saw. She told me he sent texts like this every time they were on a break as a way to suck her back in. And she was too weak and stupid to not take the bait. (Her words).

He often texted her this late since his GF works at a bakery and goes to bed super early. Poor girl, will sure as hell let her know who her other half really is. Apparently She even took a second job to push coworker through college. Some people are just scum. But decided to keep this to myself. Just in case
W is adamant they never spoke about future together, no ILYs or sexting. Again, not sure I believe her. Asked her if she sent him any photos. She would never! Yeah, right!

Also told her about text recovery software. Just to see her reaction because I doubt their security would be happy about me running recovery soft on their company phones.
She doesn't have a problem with that. Looked even happy about the possibility. Says if I saw all those texts It would prove she is telling the truth. Dont understand why she deleted them then. Her reply was she was ashamed and didn't want to admit I was right. Told me she now realises this whole mess could have been avoided if she were honest.

Too late I guess. But it's something. 

 
At the end she told me she has a NC message ready and she wants to run it by be me and send it with me present. 
 
Asked her how she plans to keep NC with somebody she works with. What if He needs to speak to her about work? She told me she doesn't care about Her job anymore.
So we did it. Right after we sent the message she blocked his number.
 
I didn't ask her why she had the afffair, I told her that is a discussion for another time. There will be many more talk I presume. I think I have a pretty good idea why but I want her to find out on her own. Maybe through therapy. We will see on that.

After she let it all out she asked me what I am going to do next. I flat out told her she had numerous opportunities to come clean and she didn't, so I think we should at least talk about getting amicable divorce. This made her so upset she started hyperventilating which resulted in her barfing all over our dinning table and herself. 

Probably lowest moment of our lives. Cleaning up vomit from your wife's hair while She is bawling her eyes out. Great stuff. 11/10 would recommend

But that's where we are, I guess  
 
Today i felt a little bit in control again. Good feeling. She wanted to hug me before she left and I kind of let her. 

Marz posted 1/2/2021 11:20 AM

Never make an ultimatum you aren’t prepared to carry out.

Do the software recovery on her phone. NOW!!! It will give you your best shot at the truth. If you dawdle you loose. Peace of mind is worth it. Get it done.

You’ve learned an important lesson. Cheaters lie a lot.

If he’s married inform his wife without warning your wife. Don’t skip this step. It’s the best way to kill an affair and only then would reconciliation be possible.

Affairs are like addictions. You get the addicted around the source you get relapse.

One final word. All cheaters lie a lot!

[This message edited by Marz at 11:21 AM, January 2nd (Saturday)]

Michigan posted 1/2/2021 11:29 AM

It was just a kiss.

Actually a kiss is a very big deal.

First, a kiss is a symbol of love. Within marriage, it's something very intimate (emotionally & physically)that's reserved for one's life partner. Therefore, a kiss alone is reason enough to feel betrayed, hurt and angry.

Second, it gets worse. Extensive research on what lead up to adultery finds that:
the 'kiss' is the 'action/event' that immediately changed the nature of their relationship from just friends (or harmless flirting) to feeling a strong emotional connection - which in turn quickly ramped up to adultery.

So the kiss is a big deal because if you didn't catch her then it's reasonable for you to assume that it was just a matter of time until they had sex.

Robert22205https

faithfulman posted 1/2/2021 11:36 AM

She admits They kissed (or made-out) twice, and that's it.

Lies. However far it went she has minimized it.

CONFESSION

For those of you who don't want to get too deep into this I give you a short version:

My wife and coworker HAD an affair.

Or at least what i would call EA starting to morph into full blown PA

She admits They kissed (or made-out) twice, and that's it.
First time happened few days before i met him. That's probably why they were so weird around me. She said it happened in an elevator on their way back from one of their lunch dates. He just came onto her and she just went with it(Her words)

She says she immedietly knew it was wrong and told him it was a mistake and It won't happen again. He just told her "We'll see about that".
He was right, but still is shithead

Second time they spend 10 minutes making out in his car after work. This was late August. We started WFH in September.

Be assured her confession is partial, minimized, and edited to reduce graphicness.

Ten minutes in the car will yield more than a little make out session after all of that pressure building up.

Also, is she saying it only happened once in the car. Almost certainly a lie.

Also told her about text recovery software. Just to see her reaction because I doubt their security would be happy about me running recovery soft on their company phones.


Here is the bad news. With iPhones, text recovery doesn't work anymore unless they have recently come out with a new exploit I am unaware of. The latest versions of iOS delete more completely than they used to.

With Android phones, you might have a shot.

***

I like your decisive action of leaving her ass - even though you probably should have had your "case" a bit more solid before you confronted, but I get it.

However, I think you are going a bit easy on her, with the comforting, hugging, and clean up
and such.

She is still lying and hasn't earned the right back for you to be her rock yet.

***

My suggestion - get an undercover monitoring plan in place and put some pressure on her to see what bubbles up.

Also, make her write down, in detail, a timeline of this relationship. Tell her to include EVERYTHING, no matter how trivial she thinks it is. (Cheaters always think the important stuff is not important.)

Tell her the details will be verified by a timeline, particularly the physical and sexual stuff, so she better ante up before she is exposed.

Good luck.


faithfulman posted 1/2/2021 11:39 AM

Having said that - if you don't want to live your life with a cheater, you probably have enough to move on.

That is less complex than trying to reconcile with someone who lies and is in "save my ass" mode.

Of course children makes it more complex and difficult to move on with your life, as they are your first consideration.

So what are you inclined to do at this point? What is your gut leaning towards?

MrFlibble posted 1/2/2021 11:42 AM

I am so sorry, but somehow my original post was sent without second half - the aftermath. So here it is

Nov 11
I slept surprisingly well tonight, but now the crushing thoughts are back. I will take kids for a walk this afternoon, I miss them a lot.

Wife and I just spoke on a phone and are meeting this evening again. Her and kids are staying over at her parents.
She sounded completely broken over the phone. Asked me how I'm doing. Still jumping from sadness to anger to desperation to disbelief and back. But that's expected I guess given the circumstances.

I told her girls should not be punished for her horrible and selfish choices so her parents are bringing them home after our talk. They need as much stability as we can provide right now.

We also decided she should stay at her parents for a few weeks and should come visit them home every day to spend some time with them while I do some work. We are finishing huge project right now so the timing could not be worse.  
 
I also need to call my MIL. From what my W told me she's being borderline abusive to her. I know she royaly f.ked up but there is no need to kick her when She's down. Maybe we should find some other living arangements for her. Another reason I am glad girls are coming back home.

Nov 13
This was was the hardest day so far because reality set in for good. This is real. This is my life now. I thought this will be better than that limbo we were before, but now I am not so sure. 
 
We talked a lot this evening, about our feelings and thoughts mostly. I am still not sure how to continue, I know it's still too early for any kind of resolution but sometimes I feel like running away and leaving it all behind. If there were no children involved that's what I would probably do. I would just leave and left this nightmare behind.
 
So, facts:
My wife did put her notice at work this morning. She has some vacation days left since we cancelled our vacation this summer due to Covid but still has to work for at least another 6 weeks. She is free as of 1st of January. New year, new start I guess.
 
She asked me if She should report the affair to HR. At the moment I don't see any benefit. If she denied everything and I found out any other way I would be the one reporting it and going after them both.
 
And I'm not even sure what would go down if it was reported. Nothing perhaps, he's not her boss. They are peers. And there is no proof they did anything inappropriate during work hours. He could easily deny any wrongdoings.
 
One interesting fact came up today regarding her job. Their "relationship" was apparently a public secret at her workplace. Or more like on their team (7 people). She said people knew they are very "friendly", made comments, but didn't know about the affair. I reckon They were not that low key as they thought they were. Wonder now if her boss knew.
 
Fortunately they finished their joint project last month and now basicaly just coexist on a team without much direct contact.
Looks like they are keeping NC, at least for now. WFH is tremendous help in this. Apparently they used to spend a lot of time chatting at work either in person or through IM. W told me they kept it very clean as this chanell is monitored. Another news for me. I feel like it's getting worse every time we speak. And I know It's expected and It's probably a right thing meaning she's not trying to cover her track and is being honest.. but hell, it hurts.
 
We also spoke about her feelings toward him. She denies she fell in love him or had any deeper feelings. He made her feel appreciated (professionaly, not personaly) and later as it progressed she felt desired (She even gave me that damned "you do that to, but with him it was different" line).
We spoke sbout our marriage, what problems we had between us that the other didn't know or didn't realise. And we also spoken about problems the other was too stubborn or afraid of rocking the boat to tell. I told her I have 50% responsibility for our marriage but her affair is her doing. She told me She knows this but I disagreed and told her I feel like she's really still not taking the full blame as she should.
 
This ended in long fight just jumping all over the place without going anywhere. I am not proud but I then unloaded on her all my frustrations from last 3 days and wasn't overall very pleasant. She took it and let me vent without much objection besides when I accused her of sleeping with him from the start. 

Then we talked about my feelings and thoughts. I think she finally starts to realize the depth of what she did to our marriage and it's obvious it's crushing her more and more. 
 
We were both completely exhausted after the fight so we called it quits for now. She told me at the end that it's horrible what she's putting us through but she will never stop fighting and asked me to do the same. I told her I just don't know if I have it in me anymore. But today was a really bad day so I don't want to let that cloud my mind.
 
She asked me if she could sleep here tonight, so she's now asleep in kid's room and I am staying in our bed writing this on my phone.
 
One day at a time. 
 
 
Yeah, and after today I am now certain she browses some infidelity websites because it's like she's going by the book one line after another. 

She's offering a timeline (reminded her I already have one but would love if she could complete it), reporting her affair to HR and she even spoke about therapy for herself. 
Not sure how I feel about that. 

Nov 14
Nothing new to report. For now there is a mutual understanding that our last meeting was a little bit too much so we decided to give us a 2-day cooling period before we continue.

Still swinging moods. Going from missing her, to indifference to how dare She? and back.

My MIL tried to "check on me" a few times over past two days, but I put a stop to that. Felt like she was more than anything fishing for informations on what I will do. So I nicely told her to back off. She complied. 
 
But I told her one thing that should sound here, too.
If we stay together it won't be because we have children. I do not intend to stay in unhappy marriage just because it would "hurt the kids". I have heard this BS countless times, and it's just that - BS.

Children are not stupid. They know mom hates dad and dad can't stand mommy. I would much rather divorce and kept civil relationship with my ex than play this charade. And I'm not from broken family btw, my parents been married for more than 30 years and still going strong.
Also, scorched earth is out of a question now. For me it was valid option in case my wife decided to keep lying and be overall nasty about her affair. She's everything but nasty. And if we decide to continue with our marriage it would be a horrible attitude to build on
 
But all that is now up to her, I stand firm on filing for divorce if in a few months I won't feel like we are making a progress or in case some more facts purposefuly hidden from me come to light.

There is no need to rush. I want to talk to my wife about physical separation and to see if there's a possibility of rebuilding what she destroyed.
So that's where we are now. W and I are talking again tomorrow.

I had the opportunity to spend whole day today with girls, just the three of us. They are asking for mommy but I am still not sure how to navigate it. This will be part of the next talk.
 
And again, since this keeps comimg back - my wife wasn't some kind of victim fallen to a predator. Yes, He was manipulating her, but She could very easily put a stop to this. She was willing and that's what got us here. At least She admits that. 

Nov 16
Today has been a hell of a day.
 
Firstly, cat's out of a bag so to speak. My wife got call from an HR this morning. Somebody apparently reported them both. She called me right away why I did that, told her I didn't.
 
She called me again in tears an hour later to tell me SH's GF called HER and yelled at her for good 20 minutes. Then she wanted to speak to me.
 
So I called her in between meetings. 
 
She apparently found the NC message my wife sent over the weekend and went into investigation. We spoke about the situation we are in, I gave her my part of a story and we put together what we know. 
 
She's obviously the one who reported them to HR. Said she had some suspicion about the two, but since SH never let her into his phone there was no proof. She somehow found out the password and voilà!
 
On a positive note - looks like SH didn't bother deleting any messages. She has them all and sent me everything after our conversation. She also kicked SH out since He lives in HER appartment. Won't lie, great sense of justice. 
 
 
 
So I got the screenshots. Lots of them. 
 
Sort of good news/bad news.
 
Good news - I am now 100% positive they didn't have sex. It was never explicitly discussed, but He texted her apologizing for pushing her into it and she told him this was too much and they should stop. Other messages were hard to read, but they are in line with what she told me. Also if those messages are not some sort od cleaned up version of events they didn't text all that much, definitely less then I thought after my W told me she deleted some messages and even whole conversations.
 
No sexting. Just some inuendos and flirting from both sides. I was mentioned only few times and never in a bad way, more like off-hand comment. Guess there was no place for me or kids in their Neverland. 
 
Bad news - He told my wife multiple times He's in love with her. She either didn't adress it at all or downplayed it. This made me angry because I asked her directly before and she denied this. 
 
Also SH' GF would like to meet in person, not sure if it's a good idea. 
 
My wife doesn't know I have them. I want to process this before we talk again. Yesterday I thought we made a progress. And now this. At least I know bigger portion of a truth now. 
 
I also had a skype appointment with a lawyer today. Looked like a right guy, just a few years older than me. I told him my story and then let him speak. Looks like if we agree on kids and a house we can be done in 3 months. I was actually surprised, I thought I took longer than that. There is also no separation period.
 
That's probably too fast for me. I don't want to rush it, also 3 month is way too soon to see if there is any hope for us. So I won't file this year.
 
Wife has been trying to reach me since morning and I am playing it cool, just told her I need some time now.

Nov 21
Sorry for disappearing, but it's been a bad couple of days. Up and down.I will try to keep this as short as possible. And again, thank you for your support. 

Since some of you asked about the meeting with SH's GF I will start with that.

It went OK. She is a lot different than I expected, in a good way.

I got basicaly no new info, but it was nice to have a coffee and listen for 30 minutes about how big loser SH is. At least my hurt ego got a boost because his GF was baffled why my wife cheated on ME with him. Great feeling, but it was short-lived. 
She had a few questions of her own so I told her everything I know or suspect my W wasn't maybe 100% honest about. She also asked me if I am going to go after him. I told her she's doing pretty good job herself so there is no need. She's leaving SH (apparently this wasn't his first time cheating) and asked me if I am divorcing my wife. Told her I am still not sure, probably. 

Overall, It was nice meeting her. We promised to keep in touch. Looks like she's ready to ruin his life and I would like to watch if she lets me. 
 
On Thursday I told my wife I have the messages. She asked me if I somehow recovered them from her phone or if I got them from SH's GF (She knew about the meeting). So I told her the truth (I know, I know, don't beat me too much please). She asked me if I believe her now and I simply told her I don't. I expected her to blow up or start another of her breakdowns as before, but She just told me She understands and is ready to do anything to prove to me She told me everything.
So I told her I know from their texts He told her multiple times He's in love with her and I asked her why She lied about that. This took her by surprise, I guess She forgot about that. Convenient, huh?

Her reasoning? She never felt that way, never replied the same way and is sure He wasn't in love with her either. It was just talk. But She knew I would probably not get over this so she lied. Also my question was more like "Did you exchange ILYs?"

This got me so angry I admit I was very nasty towards her and told her she just lied again when I explicitly asked for full truth and even told her It was her last chance. And She just blew it. I told her I will probably never trust her again and It would be better if we just got divorced as peacefully as possible. After this she went full on ugly-crying so I just asked her to leave and she did. This was Thursday night. 
 
I had a rough night and didn't sleep that well. On friday morning I was ready to call my wife to tell her we should have a cooldown period at least till Monday.
But I got a call from her at 8 am while I was making kid's breakfast. She couldn't log in anywhere and called me for help. I have seen this before so I asked her If she already had that HR meeting. She said It was rescheduled and it's in 30 minutes. 

So I told her she was probably fired and all her accounts and privileges were already suspended. Common practice. You don't want prople you just fired to have an access to your production core systems. 

I was right.

30 minutes later she was officialy fired and is to sign it all and hand over her laptop and cellphone on Monday. 
She came over later in the afternoon and looked more put together than expected. When I asked her how she's dealing with being fired She told me She's OK with it and her last concern right now is her job. I told her she still start needs a new job as soon as possible.
 
Later as I was watching kids run around we smiled at each other (it was a "look at them" kind of smile) and later She came to me, gave me a hug from behind and kissed me on a shoulder. It took me few seconds to realize what happened but since there were kids around I just shook her off, told her to cut the cr.p and don't do this ever again and walked away. I can't explain it, but when She touched me I just felt like somebody kicked me in my guts.  It was awful. Should I take that as a sign It's over?

I could hear her sobbing, but I kept my distance after that and swore to myself I will never let my guard down in her presence ever agin. Soon after she left for her parents.
She later apologized over text telling me it wasn't intentional or to hurt me in any way and she's sorry. I didn't reply, she tried calling multiple times but I didn't pick up.
I wanted to cancel our plans for today but I didn't want to disappoint our kids. Breaking up/divorcing sucks when there are children involved. Really sucks.
 
So we took our kids today for a fun day outside even though it's freezing out here. She wanted to take her mom or a sister so we could "go for s walk or something, just the two of us", but after what happened yesterday I just declined so we went just the four of us. When I picked W at her parent's MIL asked me to call her later. Not sure about that.
During ride W again apologized for the hug and kiss, It wasn't intentional, just "muscle memory" as She called it. She also confided in me that it kills her to not be able to do things like that anymore, I just told her I miss that too but it's her who did this a continues to do this with her lies. I said if something kills this marriage it won't be her kiss this loser but it will be her lies. I hope she finally got the message.

I don't do this to hurt her, but I won't pretend we are OK. We are not and we might never be again. I don't think she gets that. I swear sometimes I feel like she's living in a fantasy land where I will be grumpy for a few weeks and then things will inevitably go back to normal. I am afraid she still needs that slap of a reality. Not sure how to pull that off, though.
But after all, I now finaly feel a lot better, more in control. I called my friend who is a real estate agent and asked him to give me an update on a current situation an a market. I have a divorce petition ready. But I still hope thing will turn out for the best. Pathetic. 

Nov 24
It's over.
 
I just got call from SH's ex-girlfriend telling me SH and my wife slept together few days after their session in his car. 
She found a card transaction when she went through his statements (smart move, buddy! Using your CC to pay for a hotel room on Thursday afternoon). They had a huge fight over phone and he admits He went there with my wife.
Waiting for a copy of the statement. Not sure if I even want to confront my wife anymore. I am done.

Nov 24
I had this whole speech prepared but I knew I would screw that up so I just sat her down, pulled out my phone and hit play.

I had to shush her down few times because she started protesting right away. When the recording was over I just told her to think for a minute about her response and left to make myself a coffee to kill the time.

My hands were shaking so much I just gave up on that and I came back maybe 2 minutes later. I expected her to either deny everything or break down into a sobbing mess. She just looked me in the eyes and said "It is not true. We never went to any hotel room ever, He's lying."

So I told her If she can't be honest even after I have a solid proof we are done and I gave her her copy of a divorce paperwork and asked her to leave.

After seeing the filled out and ready papers she started panicking and kept saying again that it's all nonsense. Asked me to play the recording again and to show her that card transaction because it must be fake.

This made me chuckle to be honest, and also pretty angry. I knew it was genuine and I even had a confession ffs! Come on. It's over. Just admit it so we can move on.
We had collosal fight after that. Her reasoning? She told me they never slept together so it's true! She would never do this to me. Ha.

I said some things I am not proud of. I told her EVERYTHING I bottled up. She let let it all out. She knows me, knows my temper is short-lived. When I was done she just told me again she never went to any hotel with him, those two sessions is ALL that ever hapenned between them and she's disgusted by herself and by what she did to me. But to please give her at least a chance and to hear her out. So I let her speak. 

Well, the statement IS real.

The transaction IS real.

The hotel meeting IS real.

It just wasn't my wife.
 
She went through her callendar and She wasn't even at work that day. She was with ME at her aunt's funeral 4h away. Guess I was too angry to think about checking the date. Can't believe I missed that. 

Not gonna lie - I was so relieved. We both cried. At least my wife finally understood the gravity of how deep she destroyed my ability to trust her. I think until today she wasn't willing to admit how much she screwed up. Now she knows. 
After we put ourselves together we had an long discussion about our marriage and her affair. I think we finaly started to move forward. She willingly told me two things She lied about or didn't tell me before and swears on our children that's it
 
1) One of her friends knew about the affair. She encouraged my wife to "have some fun" and offered to cover for her. She's now out of our lives forever and I made my wife call her husband and tell him everything and block her number. Maybe a dick move but if I were him I would want to know. And I bet she cheated/is cheating on him. I never liked her anyways. 
2) SH invited her multiple times for some fun time at that hotel. She never went.
 
As for SH - no idea what was his plan. I think He went there with someone else and when was caught he tried to  save his own ass by putting this on the only affair his GF knows about. I'm pretty sure there were multiple women. 
And it's almost comical. Did he really think my wife will cover for him? The more I know about him the more I think he's not the sharpest tool.

We later called his ex together. My wife started to apologize but was cut short in a few not that nice words. Can't blame her. It was deserved. SH's ex thinks my wife is lying but I know where she was that whole day and night. With me. So I told her it absolutely wasn't my wife and I think the guy just didn't get what he wanted so he found a new object. I asked her if there is any way I could help but she just hang up. This all sucks, I will call her tomorrow to check on her.

Also, SH's now apparently living with his parents in their 2 bedroom appartment, is jobless and got dumped. But after that stunt He just pulled I can assure you the fun for him just begins.

So this is where we are now. My wife asked me if she could stay tonight. Right now she's asleep in our spare bedroom.

Nov 25
Today was a good day.
 
W brought kids back for a night. She took them this morning to her parents to give me some space since I had a lot to do today. Putting myself deep into work helps a little.
Before leaving she told me there is something she would like to give me. It was an envelope.

I won't lie, my first thought was there is more. So I asked her if there is something inside that she hasn't told me before about her affair. It wasn't.

Inside was her list and a decently long letter. I'm afraid it's too personal to be put out here, but screw that.
I want your honest opinion on that. And I feel more comfortable with sharing this with anonymous people on the internet that with my family or friends. 
I tried to rewrite it as best as possible. Again, it's not in english so I tried my best.

OP,
I can't put into words how much I am sorry for what I did to you and our family. It is inexcusable and I will not stop kicking myself over it until I die. You asked me yesterday why I did it and I want to assure you It wasn't anything you did or didn't. It was all me.
You are the best thing that ever hapenned to me and I hurt you in the worst possible way. I destroyed our amazing family because I was selfish and I admit it now - I felt entitled to have fun and flirt and to be free again.
You asked me many times while I was at home with kids if I am happy with how things are and I told you I was. I wasn't. I was just too stupid to admit this to myself, let alone to you. So I let it eat me alive and when I was finaly back at work I did the stupidest thing I could. Instead of defending our marriage against everyone and everything I decided to opened up to some else and shared with him my thought and feelings when it's supposed to be you and only who I share these with.
There were many times when I wanted to tell you everything. I never went through with it because I knew I already hurt you so much you would leave me. I can't believe how selfish I can be sometimes.
I know you don't believe that but I love you, never stopped loving you and never will. I can't believe how I treated you when you first told me about how you feel about this. When you righfuly called me on my horrible behaviour I lied to you, repeatedly, and instead of being honest I lied some more. You and our girls don't deserve any of this and I know it sounds horrible but it hurts me more than you because it was me who did that. There was nothing more you could to do to stop this. I could and I didn't.
The day you left I felt like somebody took my heart out and jumped on it. I can't imagine how you must felt. Again and again, instead of being honest I lied, but it's over now. I want to make one thing clear - now you know absolutely everything. There is nothing you don't know. I didn't realize until yesterday how much you don't trust me after what hapenned. Why should you trust me after what I did? I was stupid. Now I know.
Mom told me today you have a full right to divorce me. It's true, but it still hurts me too much to even think about that. But I know It shouldn't be about me or what I want. It's all about you three. You deserve much better. But if you let me I want to be that better. For you and for our girls.
It would absolutely destroy me, but If divorce is what you want or need I promise I will sign whatever you put in front of me. But I ask you one thing.
Please at least give me until the end of a year to prove to you how much you mean to me and to show you how sorry I am for what I did. I have never in my life regretted anything so much. Let me make this right.
I love you. 
W
 
I cried like a little b.tch just rewriting it. I don't know if it's genuine or if it tells me what I want to hear. And I have no idea how to reply to that, but I know I should.
 
And here is her list:
- I will have all her passwords to phone, e-mail and any SM account she has (I know only about her FB)
- She will delete her Facebook if I want her to
- I can go through her phone anytime I want. I can run any kind of recovery software on it
- I will have full access to her accounts and card transaction history
- I can put GPS tracking on her phone and car
- She will find a new job as soon as possible. Any job
- She will find an apppartment close to our house and move out. SHE will pay for it
- If I want to she's willing to put our house in MY name only
- She will set up an STD test for both of us
- She will DNA test both our kids
- She already has booked skype session with counselor herself
- She will plan a MC for both of us if I am willing to go with her
- She will pay for it out of her pocket
- I can ask her any question. She will respond in full truth even if it will hurt me. If I am nit satisfied we put the question aside and where there is more she's will to go through with a polygraph
 
She wants me to think about the list and to let her know if there is anything I want to add.

I think I need few days to process all this amd give myself some time alone. So I am sorry if I will pull a vanishing act for now. And again, thank you all for your insight.

Dec 8
Hello, it's OP again.
 
A lot has happened during last two weeeks. I will try to be as detailed as possible so sorry for a long post. 
Firstly, things are going kind of... OK. I still have my ups and downs, but they are not as strong as they were two weeks back. Maybe I am coming back to some sort of normality.
 
After my last post (letter, list) I read your replies and realized you are right, our daily meetings didn't do us any good. It just made this whole mess even more confusing and even though it hurts it's for the best to put some space between us. 
So I decided to go LC with my wife and even with other people involved (the word apparently got out and our friends started to get in touch) with me. Some were offering support, some were just snooping for a drama I guess. 

My wife kept coming over to spend time with kids every day and instead of joining I just left the house. I went for a walk around the city, which I haven't done in years, and it helped me tremendously in sorting out my thoughts. Of course W was on my mind 90% of the time but it was much easier to deal with it when she wasn't around.

I spoke to her only on phone and strictly only about kids and important non-personal stuff and started completely ignoring her calls and texts regarding anything else than kids/house. Only face to face meetings happened when she came to pick up/drop off kids and I was civil but distant. This unfortunately threw her back to where she was right after our contfrontation - depression, tears, pleading, begging, all that circus.
 
Her mom told me she was either crying her eyes out or walking around like a zombie during this time. She didn't eat, didn't talk to anyone and just locked herself in her room. MIL was concerned and asked me to at least let her call me. This lasted around a week or so and in the end I agreed to meet her to put a stop to this because I was seriously woried about her. 

So I asked her to go for a walk with me. I thought she hit her all-time low after our confrontation but this was completely another level. She looked like hell. She lost 10 pounds last week only. I don't care what you will say but I still care about her so seeing her suffer was terrible.

Before I had a chance to speak she apologized for her behaviour this last week. When I went NC she took it as me giving up on her and our marriage (even though I told her what's going to happen and why) and it made her so desperate because she can't imagine her life without me. But she knows this needs to stop and she promised to give me all the space I need (She kept her promise btw). We talked a lot about how we are doing now and we had a first real discussion about possible outcomes.

I asked her again if she would really be willing to go through with an uncontested and amicable divorce next year. She would, if I need that to heal it will break her heart into million pieces but she's ready to take anything I will offer. She says It doesn't have to be the end for us. We could start again, dating while living separately and to see how I feel about that. She said she knows she can't have any demands but said it would make it easier for her if she knew divorce doesn't mean we are completely over. She asked me if I can ever forgive her. Honestly, I think I already did. But it doesn't mean we are getting back together. Maybe it's a little twisted but I see those two things as a separate entities. 
 
We walked and spoke for like two hours and eventualy ended up at a place where we had our first date. When she brought that up it felt like somebody twisted that knife a few more times. Hope those triggers will go away with time. 
You will rightfully take me for an idiot, but after our talk we hugged for like 10 minutes just sitting on a bench. I should have expect it (Idiot, again), but when I pulled away she tried to kiss me. I just kind of turned my head and it ended with her putting her head on my shoulder sobbing and saying sorry again and again.
 
When the tears stopped she pulled out her notepad (her mom told me she refuses to let go of it) and found a page with her list. She has already done some of it, some is WIP

She gave me a piece of paper with all her logins and passwords. Emails, internet banking, phone, phone bills, tablet, everything.

She shut down her FB completely.

She wanted me to take her phone and run a recovery soft on it and put a gps tracker. I denied. I told her I am not playing this game and it's not a life I want to live. For neither of us. 

she has two skype interviews this Friday. She sent out about two dozens of applications. It's all in banking/finance ranging from desk clerk to finances to risk management. Not her previous position

She's browsing websites everyday looking for a new appartment. Market's now apparently not in the best shape and there isn't many offers in our area/size/price range. She asked me to come with her to have a look since she doesn't know what she should be looking for. Told her that's what real estate agent is for so she should get one

She had her first counseling session. Told me she didn't like the therapist AT ALL, so she's looking for another one. Also it's definitely NOT cheap. I offered to pay for it but she declined the offer. I asked her how she's going to pay for all of this (hoping she won't get into debt) and her plan is to sell most of her jewelery except a few important pieces I gave her. Put together it's equivalent of around 20k USD and lots of it is custom made so I told her it's a terrible idea to sell it. We had a small fight over this and I managed to talk her out of it. So I am paying for her therapy until she gets on her feet. Then it's up to her. 

She called our GP. He's a friend of ours so it must have been pretty awkward call. She told him what happened and asked him to book us both for an STD test. It's next Monday. I expect this to be a lot of fun. 

She picked up a clinic for DNA test. Looks like it can be done at home. Also it's a lot cheaper than expected. Testing kits are coming next week, we send it back and results should be in 2 weeks
 
I was genuinely surprised.

I confessed her mom told me she's basicaly just existing so I thought we were at a dead end with her list. She told me it was really bad few days but she realized that indulging in self-pity will get us nowhere. So she started pushing. 

She made a list and did one thing every day no matter how hard it was. She said she has picture of me and girls in her room as a token of why she's doing it. 
 
I wont lie - all this makes huge cracks and holes in my immediate plan to divorce her. If they had sex or she didn't take full responsibily and show deep remorse I would be done right away. But now I am not so sure about what to do. 
Maybe I need to hear that I am just eating up her lies because it's what I want to hear. I don't know.

Hope you can give me your insight on that. 
 
 
This was last Friday.

After our walk she again took kids to her parents and I didn't hear from her until Sunday evening. Except when I texted her how the kids are doing or wanted to call them. It was great, I did some work around the house and I blew off a pretty thick layer of dust off my PS4 and slayed some monsters. I forgot how good that feels. This weekend was first time I felt like I can be on my own. Like I will make it.
 
She brought kids on Sunday evening, looking defeated.  She didn't speak much at first but after some probing she admited she's afraid that during my "me" time I will realize I would be better off without her and leave. I told her she needs to understand how much this hurt me and honestly told her it's still a very real possibility. But I appreciate her efforts, I know this is hurting her too, but nothing is set in stone yet. I told her I plan to stick to my word that I give her time until January to show me what we have is worth saving.
 
This morning I was in a middle of a meeting (my mom was watching girls) when my phone buzzed. It was my wife - call me please. So i did. 

She got a text 5 minutes ago from unknown number from SH basicaly saying "sorry for the fallout" (sarcastic ha-ha) and asking her how she's doing!

She told me before that she never gave him her personal phone number so I have no idea how he got that (She returned her company phone and SIM card when she was fired). She asked me if she should reply to leave her alone or just ignore and block the number.

I saw red. I wanted to go find him and twist his head again and again until it pops like a cork on a champagne bottle. I think my wife could sense this even over the phone so she told me she's coming over right now and we will talk about what to do in person.

In the end we decided to just block and ignore. I again asked her if she lied and gave him her number. She says She didn't. While at work she didn't even use her personal number since she got new phone and new number and bills were payed by her employer and they had no problem with personal use. She just turned off her personal phone and put it in her night table.
SH tried again 2 hours later from yet another number but that was blocked too.

Any idea what was that supposed to mean? Trying his luck again? The second text looked a lot like that message he sent during our confrontation. 

I texted his exGF this but initialy got no response. She went completely silent since she found out it wasn't my wife SH took to that hotel room. But she called me few hours ago asking if she can speak to my wife. I gave her my W's personal number (with her consent) and we talked for a few minutes.
Looks like there were at least 4 other women she now knows of.

SH's been blowing her phone begging her to take him back (I really don't get it. Why?) and she uses that to pull some more intel out of him. I told her she should be just done with him but she insist she's just been putting together a decent folder with names and dates he had been willingy providing (the guy's realy not that clever!) and she plans to create a perfect storm by releasing all this at once when the time is right.
Reason? ALL of the other 4 women are married. Some have small children. It makes me seriously sick. 

Unfortunately, I think this intel gathering is over now because SH showed up at her doorstep in the afternoon while her brother was there. They got into a fight and her brother broke his nose.

Good for him. I should send him a gift basket or something.

So that's how things are now. I am doing better every day, my W is finaly giving me the space like she promised and SH has a broken nose. I can't believe I am saying this but I now see the light. I WILL BE OK. One way or the other.

MrFlibble posted 1/2/2021 12:22 PM

And finaly last part, or more like "where we are now"
December 11
W wants to take kids to ZOO tomorrow and asked me to join them. Not sure if I should go

December 12
Should have stayed at home, the ZOO trip was a disaster.
Thing went great at first, wife seemed to be in great mood and happy, kids were happy, we made some chitchat and managed to avoid any serious talks. It was great.
Then it started raining a bit and I gave her my coat.
No idea why but she completely broke down sobbing and apologizing over and over again, all the good stuff.
In front of kids and everyone around.
It was horrible. She asked if we can go home so we left in a hurry and kids are confused as hell and disappointed.
I couldn't get out of her what is wrong but I told her I am not letting it go until she tells me what the hell was that. She even called herself "a c.nt" few times. She never in her life did that.
I hope it doesn't mean there is more she hasn't told me. It's the only thing I can think about now.
She now locked herself in a guest room and refuses to let me in. I can hear her crying and I have absoulutely no idea what should I do. Help me

December 13
Thank you all, a lot of truth in your posts. We spoke a lot last night and this morning. I will be as short as possible since this is already turning into a novel
I agree that her outburst in front of kids was a horrible thing to do and I told her everything I had on my mind about that. How damaging for girls it was and how I was disappointed that she couldn't hold it together when we agreed on one of us leaving if it becomes too much. She was just so broken that she didn't even fight back. It was so sad
When she calmed down I told her we need to speak to kids before putting them to bed and then we should talk. We set them down and explained that mommy did something that hurt daddy, she is very sorry, she's sad she did it and that's why mommy was crying today. They took it well, not sure the younger one (3y) fully understands. One of my wife's friends is a school psychologist so we are calling her on Monday to help us navigate this.
 
When kids fell asleep I told my W I want her to stay here tonight and I won't back down until she tells me what's on her mind. I asked her straight away if there is anything new to confess. There isn't, when it comes to her A i know everything and there wasn't anyone else.
It took me some time but I managed to get out of her what hapenned at the ZOO. Her mom told her yesterday morning before she left that I would be better off without her so when we spent the day together like a family she felt like all the weight of what she did fell on her at the same time and when I showed her all the affection I did that day it simply became too much to bear.
We came to a conclusion that neither one of us can make it without a help so we agreed on IC for both of us. Her first session is on Thursday and I am calling the office tomorrow to see if there is a possibility of me joining or having a separate sessions starting as soon as possible.
She admits me not giving her my decision is crushing her. Even though she knows it's probably too soon and it's absolutely not her place to force me to make a decision. Shes also afraid it would push me away even more. 
So we spoke about a future and I decided to take the divorce off a table to give us a chance to work through it. She's moving back into our house next week because I want to get her out of her mom's grasp. It's not a good idea let her stay there in a state she's in now and I want to have her here in case she did anything stupid. I don't think she's suicidal but I am not taking any chances. Call it whatever you want, codependency, white knight syndrome, whatever. I don't really care.
Please don't take it as her guilting me into it with her tears. That's not the case. I love my wife, I truly believe she loves me and we are not throwing away those amazing 13 years without a fight.
We are staying in separate bedrooms for any foreseeable future, but it's still a big step in what I hope is a right direction.

December 29
Christmas went OK, I got sick few days before so we decided to not go to my parents, just as precaution. It was probably just a 3 day flu, but I wanted to be sure.
So we ultimately spent christmas in here, just 4 of us watching tv and playing games. Kids were so happy, it was great.
You are probably wondering what's the situation with me and my wife. Well, no idea honestly. We speak to each other, she's overly affectionate and goes out of her way to make my life easier, but we still have no physical contact and we sleep in different rooms. We also almost kissed few days back (too much wine) and it ended with tears and awkward silence until we went to bed. Other than this incident she's very respectful of my boundaries and is doing all the right things, but I am still not ready to put it all behind. We are both having IC tomorrow afternoon so we will see how that goes. Hope it helps.
 
The only other update worth mentioning is that SH's ex let it all out on Christmas day and SH ended up in hospital few days later. Looks like one of the husbands had his suspicions before and knew exactly who SH is and where to find him. I hope he won't get into much trouble, but it's great to have some proxy revenge.

MrFlibble posted 1/2/2021 12:26 PM

My deepest Thank you to everybody who reads it all and offers some advice on how to proceed. It's been now almost 2 months since our confrontation and I think the initial shock is gone and is now replaced by sadness and feeling of being lost. I feel like there is a moat forming between me and my wife and I have no idea how to stop it.

faithfulman posted 1/2/2021 12:31 PM

MrFlibble - Epic story and you might be one of the perversely "lucky ones".

I admire your resolve and determination. I know you had some blow up that you weren't proud of. Of course you weren't.

But don't feel so bad about it. I think that when you are a betrayed spouse, male or female, you have the right to let the other person know EXACTLY WHAT YOU THINK and sometimes that ain't nice.

If they didn't want it they shouldn't have started it.

***

Overall, your wife is less horrible than most cheaters, mostly because she got busted and was rescued by Covid lockdown before Mr. SH Sleazebag professional cheater got what he wanted from her.

By the way, Mr. SH is probably in for a lot more of what the brother gave him in his life. fuckers like that are detestable and will end up with what they deserve: Lonely, scratching the sores on their groin and usually drinking the years away.

As far as your wife's letter and behavior, I have few comments:

Expressions of love:

So I told her I know from their texts He told her multiple times He's in love with her and I asked her why She lied about that. This took her by surprise, I guess She forgot about that. Convenient, huh?

Her reasoning? She never felt that way, never replied the same way and is sure He wasn't in love with her either. It was just talk. But She knew I would probably not get over this so she lied. Also my question was more like "Did you exchange ILYs?"

Typical cheater lies. She knew she was lying and just didn't want to admit to the whole deal. Assuming she is not lying now, she should have said: "He said I love you, but I didn't reciprocate"

By the way, guys who are always running cheating game like to let the "I love you" fly early. It just gets some chicks moist.

***

"Unhappiness" and why Cheated

You asked me many times while I was at home with kids if I am happy with how things are and I told you I was. I wasn't. I was just too stupid to admit this to myself, let alone to you. So I let it eat me alive and when I was finaly back at work I did the stupidest thing I could. Instead of defending our marriage against everyone and everything I decided to opened up to some else and shared with him my thought and feelings when it's supposed to be you and only who I share these with.


Lies. Real reason: I found him attractive, it was exciting and I wanted to do and I thought I could get away with it.

You will never, ever get the real truth from her on this front. You just have to decide if you can accept the lack of character and loyalty she has shown you.

***

Coming Clean

There were many times when I wanted to tell you everything.

Lies. She never planned to breathe one word.

I never went through with it because I knew I already hurt you so much you would leave me.

Lies. She wanted to protect herself.

Again, you will never, ever get the real truth from her with regard to the above lies. Nobody wants to admit they planned to get with someone outside of their marriage and take it to their grave.

***

Anyway, assuming you have 90% of the truth and it never went into her pants or any other orifices, you are "lucky" because that is apparently your dealbreaker.

Still the road ahead is hard because your wife has shown you a part of herself that you will always know of.

From here it is all up to what you want and are able to accept, with the exception of your wife needing to be absolutely straight and narrow for the rest of your days together.

Good work brother! and good luck.


Dignitas posted 1/2/2021 12:41 PM

The SH dude is revolting. What a complete loser. Unbelievable that your wife would cheapen herself to that level. On the bright side, no ILYs from her and no sex, and she’s doing essentially everything a WS should.

Stories like this actually frustrate me more than full blown serial cheating. This woman made her best shot at throwing away her marriage and family for a brief fantasy with a scumbag. It’s just so... pathetic. It’s juvenile, silly, and just plainly unintelligent.

All things considered I think you’re doing the best you can. Live your life, love your kids, take care of yourself, and slowly you’ll begin to find out if you can ever see your wife the same way again. You’ve already figured out that seeing her the same way again =/= forgiveness, and that those two things are not mutually exclusive.

Good luck, sincerely.

Edit: Also, what faithful said is right. Whatever armchair psychoanalysis she’s done on herself is meaningless. She was attracted to the guy and wanted him. Plenty of people go through unhappy periods or tough times in their marriage without making out with the loser from work in their car like a teenager.

This was not an aberration, this is her true character. She’s going to do her best to make you forget it and to play the ‘good wife and mom’ role again, but her mask already slipped.

REMEMBER. In the context of this forum, you might be lucky. In the context of THE WORLD, you are not. Plenty of people never cheat on their spouses. Plenty of women don’t entertain teenage fantasies with the biggest scumbag in their offices.

[This message edited by Dignitas at 12:47 PM, January 2nd (Saturday)]

steadychevy posted 1/2/2021 13:11 PM

You've provided a very comprehensive background, MrFlibble. You seem to be on a very good track. My very best wishes to you. I'm not going to go into any detail based on what you've written but just make some shallow comments.

Dr. Shirley Glass (IIRC) said from her research that the workplace is the new incubator for adultery. For a lot of reasons. Best behaviour, best grooming, work on projects, spend more awake time with COW than marital partner, etc.

My XWW was a SAHM for 10 years with our 3 children. It was a joint decision as was the decision to return to the workforce. She excelled at work. Guess what. Her AP was a COW that she supervised.

The other thing Dr. Shirley Glass said (again, I think it was Glass) was that the workplace affair is the hardest to find out about. My gut was screaming at me as yours was sending you messages. Always trust your gut.

The ILY's are difficult. Perhaps your WW never did say that. My XWW answered her AP's ILY with the same but felt guilty about it. I guess that's worse than the fucking they did just prior. Somehow they came up with LU or LOO as in "love you". If you have an abbreviation for a particular term or phrase it still means the same thing as the term or phrase it is replacing. However that was supposed to mean something positive to me, I guess.

Somewhere I read that the first kiss is the hardest line to cross in adultery. Harder even than the first sex. Where there was kissing I suspected there was sex. I think you wrote that they did have sex in the car. I would have been surprised if they didn't.

Your WW has offered to do a timeline and a polygraph. Good for her. A polygraph could check if she ever said ILY or love you or something similar to SH. I don't remember is SH for shit head?

My XWW never did a timeline. I think she thought it would be too painful to look at her actions. I could be wrong.

It seems to me that your WW has been proactive in trying to do the "right things". Good for her. She may have read about what she needs to do as part of her research. Still good. She's taking the initiative.

To start with your WW was doing what many WS's do. Only admitting what can be proven. Only answering direct questions and not providing any answers about anything that would be associated. If the question didn't hit the target on the bullseye it wouldn't be answered and neither would the questions three rings out. She was protecting herself. That's normal.

You indicated that you thought your WW was just waiting you out. You'd get over it and life would go on. I believe mine felt the same. It might be ugly for a while but just keep your head low, don't volunteer anything and this, too, shall pass. However, something rang your WW's bell and reality hit.

Your WW told you that you were the best thing that ever happened in her life. Mine told me the same thing long before her LTA and after the DDays. Didn't seem to matter at the time.

The decision of what you do is yours alone to make. You seem to be a very rational, thoughtful, analytical guy and will make the decision best for you. It seems to me that your WW is a good candidate for R. Forgiveness doesn't mean forget and it doesn't mean staying married but she seems like a good candidate.

A very good book is "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" by Linda J. McDonald. It's directed at the wayward but the betrayed should know what real remorse looks like.

Another book that could be of benefit for you is "Cheating in a Nutshell" by Wayne and Tamara Mitchell.

The question is what is best for you. Is it a deal breaker for you? Can you see a life with her that would be fulfilling? I asked my XWW to tell me, show me, prove to me that my only rational decision would be to reconcile. Nothing.

You are fully entitled to divorce even if your WW is pulling out all stops, doing everything right, etc. You can attempt reconciliation but if you do go all in. You could find that isn't the solution for you and would still be justified in divorce. You can reconcile. It's your decision and a tough one to make.

Best wishes with analyzing and making your choice. Strength of mind and clarity of thought.

ETA: I hadn't read you post at 11:22 while I was writing this and then posting it. Just so you know.

ETA: I'm sorry. I went back and read your posts again because I had thought they did have sex in the car. I was wrong. It was about sex at the hotel which your WW did not do. So, again, sorry.

[This message edited by steadychevy at 1:23 PM, January 2nd (Saturday)]

ShutterHappy posted 1/2/2021 16:11 PM

If you wish to reconcile, I suggest you go ahead with the polygraph to put your mind at ease.

There’s not a lot of stories here where the WS take full responsibility of their actions and do the research and come up with the list she came up with, so I think that if this is your decision, you have a good shot at R.

I also suggest that your WW put a restraining order on the OM and that she changes her phone number.

She believes that she would not have slept with him but it would have had happened if you hadn’t caught this early.

How did she react when she learned that he was seeing 4 married women? Does she still see him as Prince Charming? Probably not.

She must do IC to understand why she is so vulnerable to smooth talking men such as these. But my bet is that if she follows through with that list and stay consistent over the years, she can become a safe spouse.

Are you leaning towards R or D? What is your plan going forward?

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 4:12 PM, January 2nd (Saturday)]

faithfulman posted 1/2/2021 19:18 PM

Now that I am reasonably sure you are not posting any more updates.. ;-)

You are in about as good a position as one could be without it all just being a practical joke.

Having said that, it still sucks because you know you cannot trust your wife, no matter how far she did or didn't go. (I am not convinced that it didn't go further than kissing, but maybe it didn't get to penetration.)

Like I wrote above - can you accept this person who you know her to be now as your wife for the rest of your days?

***

I think you need to hang back and maybe let the pressure subside. This doesn't mean relaxing your in-home boundaries or your out of home boundaries or rules you have set down.

Just try not to push her emotionally. This sucks because it puts unfair limits on you, but I think you need to monitor her as "you will be" if you decide to stay married to her.

See what she does. Will she backslide? Will she assume you have forgotten and just go back to acting like it is now normal (because it ain't). Does she step out of line again?

It all remains to be seen.

***

I will say that I think she has instability issues. And I wouldn't trust her at all.

Monitor, and verify. And that will suck too.

Take this time while you are observing to understand your own mind.

Good luck.

MickeyBill2016 posted 1/2/2021 19:28 PM

IT sounds to me that if they did have sex in the car there would have been some mention of it and if Mr F has all the SH texts and messages, I am 90% sure he would have referred to it or suggested a replay. But anything is possible.

marriageredux959 posted 1/3/2021 00:43 AM

HR *fired* her for what was basically a flirtation with a peer coworker, neither of whom reported to each other?

I worked a whole lotta years in environments where people had full blown affairs (that occasionally produced CHILDREN, so now we're all working with the pregnant paramour.) HR did not get involved.

Other workplace affairs resulted in significant domestic violence at home. Since the violence did not happen in the workplace, HR did not get involved.

There were affairs up and down the reporting chain as well.

In one instance, the affair partner in the position of power was busted by his wife and shit hit the fan. He was not such a place in the reporting chain that he could fire the AP, so he went to her boss and demanded that she be let go.

Her boss kicked him out of her office. If he or his wife had an issue with him and the AP being together in the workplace, *he* could leave. She wasn't about to fire a valuable employee for a personal relationship that by all evidence did not affect her job performance.

This wasn't a 'flirtation.' This was a full blown emotional and physical affair.

HR was never involved.

I have no idea why any HR department would fire an employee because a disgruntled girlfriend, not an employee, not a customer, not a client, not a stakeholder, not even a coworker, a disgruntled girlfriend, phoned in a complaint. Honestly, *that* sounds legally actionable on your wife's behalf. How did HR know that Disgruntled Girlfriend was telling the truth, and even if she was, why would HR care?

The only way I could see that HR *might* care is if your wife produced evidence of sexual harassment, as evidenced by AP's texts apologizing for "pressuring her into it." In that case, it's much more likely that HR would fire the AP, not your wife.

If HR fired every employee engaged in an on the job flirtation or an emotional affair there'd be one hell of a lot of job vacancies. And that's not even talking about the full blown physical affairs.

So are we to understand that your wife lost her job but her AP did not?

I find it hard to believe that *any* attorney advised you that you could be free and clear, especially with a house and children in play, in three months.

I find it hard to believe that any attorney would advise a 'quickie divorce' over an office flirtation, two non-penetrative, brief make out seasons, all evidence pointing to no actual sex, and an apparently remorseful spouse. Most responsible attorneys would advise counseling and therapy first, divorce a far second based on this level of extracurricular involvement.

In reference to the attorney, not even sure your wife's physical involvement meets the criteria for adultery in many or most states. Most states require significant evidence of sexual intercourse.

Not judging anyone's personal threshold, and if this story is indeed reality, obvs it's cheating and needs to be addressed. You wanna leave? That's your call.

My apologies to you, OP, if this story is genuine,

but it reminds me in style and content of a previous frequent flier on SI, who had a HUGE multi-page thread filled with lots of bad assed posturing and scorched and salted earth and righteous justice and a broken and sobbing wife.

Oh, and an AP that got busted down and ended up in jail.

Not sure how the Mods did it, but that entire story was eventually discredited.

Again, my apologies if I'm out of line/off base but to my ear, this story has lots of literally unbelievable detail.

[This message edited by marriageredux959 at 12:52 AM, January 3rd (Sunday)]

jb3199 posted 1/3/2021 01:25 AM

I find it hard to believe that *any* attorney advised you that you could be free and clear, especially with a house and children in play, in three months.

I find it hard to believe that any attorney would advise a 'quickie divorce' over an office flirtation, two non-penetrative, brief make out seasons, all evidence pointing to no actual sex, and an apparently remorseful spouse. Most responsible attorneys would advise counseling and therapy first, divorce a far second based on this level of extracurricular involvement.

Not sure where OP is from, but here in NJ my attorney gave me the three month timeframe.....assuming that my WW and I were able to reach an agreement. There is no separation period here.

And not to rebuff your post, m959, but as it pertains to the lawyers 'advice', one thing stuck out in my mind in one of the original consults. He stated that he is an instrument to carry out my wishes. He would give his personal advice of what he would do as it pertains to counseling, cooling off, or reconciling if I asked him to do so, but he would never dissuade my wishes to divorce if that was the case. I would think that most lawyers would be of this mindset as it pertains to the non-legal aspects of one's marriage.

Hey, but maybe I'm the one off base here.

marriageredux959 posted 1/3/2021 01:42 AM

Not sure where OP is from, but here in NJ my attorney gave me the three month timeframe.....assuming that my WW and I were able to reach an agreement. There is no separation period here.

And not to rebuff your post, m959, but as it pertains to the lawyers 'advice', one thing stuck out in my mind in one of the original consults. He stated that he is an instrument to carry out my wishes. He would give his personal advice of what he would do as it pertains to counseling, cooling off, or reconciling if I asked him to do so, but he would never dissuade my wishes to divorce if that was the case. I would think that most lawyers would be of this mindset as it pertains to the non-legal aspects of one's marriage.

Hey, but maybe I'm the one off base here.

Thank you for this useful and balanced information. :)

Our attorney (with whom we have NOT consulted about dissolving our marriage, but with whom we have consulted about other business, including some sensitive family issues) is a huge hearted, kind, incredibly gruff and direct former JAG.

I know, in my heart, that if I took my infidelity story to him, along with an even more detailed snapshot of our marriage,

he would without a doubt advice counseling/therapy as the first step.

If there was any type of abuse involved, or malfeasance (there's not, on either count) Katie bar the door. I know that as well.

The man does not countenance deceit nor bullying in *any* form. (We've seen some of his public work, unrelated to us.) But in the best interests of his clients, he would not recommend dissolution of a marriage if less destructive, viable, and potentially healthier solutions were available and desired.

That being said, one can get a divorce simply because one wants a divorce. No argument there.

I do see and understand your point- the attorney works for the client. :)

MrFlibble posted 1/3/2021 02:34 AM

Faithfulman, I agree you can probably call me "lucky" considering what some other BS are going through. But i fell like lots of this is my doing, I know my wife and I was able to step in before things got out of hand. But her betrayal is still very real and it hurts as hell.

When it comes to why she did it? Short answer is because she wanted to. Long answer - low selfesteem, being SAHM and jerk who knows how to push the right button. A agree some of her answers were BS, but lots of it was genuine and her TT was not extensive

Since this all blew up she's been doing all the right things but I am still not sure if I can get over it.

Mene posted 1/3/2021 02:38 AM

Something is not sitting right with me regarding this story. She’s not telling you the whole truth.

jb3199 posted 1/3/2021 09:50 AM

But i fell like lots of this is my doing, I know my wife and I was able to step in before things got out of hand.

Many of us look back, and believe that if we did x, y, and z we would have been able to prevent these infidelities. And in certain situations, this may be correct. But WHY? Why should be have to be the keepers of our partner's morals? Why couldn't they protect us instead of putting the knife in our backs?

Yes, my wife's affair was, to date, the most traumatic event of my life. I am also certain that I could have prevented her cheating....and she may never have cheated again. But through the lens of time, I have shed any feelings of responsibility for her actions. I married a partner; my equal. As did you. Don't wear the burden of 'what ifs' because of your wife's poor choices.

As to the feeling of a moat, all I can say is you are just a few months out. You aren't certain whether you want to reconcile or divorce. The word around here that can be good or evil is TIME. You simply can't process your emotions on a set schedule. When you are ready, you will know what you want to do. And yes, I hate to use the word 'fortunate', but you do have far more information than many of us ever receive. You also have a spouse that appears to be willing to put in the work. The truth is, she is most likely this way because of how well(no matter how you may think otherwise) you handled yourself post discovery. You appear to know your worth, which is something many betrayed partners seems to struggle with after their D-day.

Don't be surprised to feel this way for a few months more.

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