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faithfulman ( Member #66002) posted at 11:07 PM on Thursday, December 3rd, 2020

Yes he is a psychiatrist and still practises in a hispital in Cannes. He also has a private practise in Vence. He is 69-70 and divorced from his wife a few ago after....guess what...being caught in an another affair. She threw him out.

Yet another shitty, well not therapist/counselor... psychiatrist.

I still don't understand the blind faith people put in the talk therapy profession to help people become something they are not. The desire has to come from within.

Meanwhile, depending on the therapist, they can easily do more damage because of the propensity for the therapist to be "on the side" of the customer in order to "build trust". Meanwhile, that person shits all over the people around them feeling justified in their behavior because somebody - a professional! - "understands them".

Edited to add:

Add to this a toxic stew of false equivalencies, an amoral stance on most issues and an increasing bent toward blameshifting and justifying infidelity and you’d be hard pressed to find very many counselors who can cut through the white noise of our infidelity-soaked culture.

Exactly.

- False equivalencies - but you once yelled at me!(or something like that)

- Amoral stance - I can't judge you as wrong for cheating, maybe you had "reasons!"

Let's not forget:

- You don't know the actual moral makeup of the therapist. In this thread a cheating psychiatrist, in another recent thread you have a therapist whose wife was also a therapist, and she was a cheater, and then used her own therapy sessions to rant about and vilify her husband!

- It's a business that relies on repeat business. Can't be losing those clients by being too harsh!

- Who says the therapist/counselor/psychiatrist is any good? Most people are "average" at whatever they do. People are "average" in general! Average is not going to snap your cheating spouse out of being an asshole who doesn't care about other people.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 5:17 PM, December 3rd (Thursday)]

posts: 873   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2018
id 8614060
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Bigger ( Guide #8354) posted at 11:51 PM on Thursday, December 3rd, 2020

Dan,

Sometimes posters lose themselves in some revenge-fantasy world.

You could focus on the OM.

When I looked up the APA Ethics Resources and Standards there is no clause or bylaw along the lines of “Thou shalt not fornicate with another mans wife”.

OK – so that applies to the USA, but the Canadian Psychiatry Association or the Royal College of Psychiatrists (UK) don’t mention womanizing in their codes of ethics either. There are clear lines on doctor/patient relationships but that won’t apply to your wife and OM.

My French didn’t allow me to read and understand the ethics code they abide by but I think we can assume it’s the same.

Maybe IC’s, councelors, psycologists and psychiatrists are all snake-oil peddlers. Maybe not. It’s not relevant and I do hope this thread won’t be twisted into a long-worded discussion of their efficiency. Don’t see it help you in any way Dan, especially since I think you might need one of those “snake-oil salesmen” to help with your personal trauma and recovery.

Focus on YOU.

Focus on getting the best deal available if this ends in divorce.

Focus on distancing yourself from your wife.

Focus on being clear that you don’t share your wife.

Don’t ask for or initiate reconciliation. I could understand a want to try to save the marriage – what with the length of time. But it has to be your wife that asks for a chance, and you that then offers her one. Or not. Until then it’s always the stance that divorce might not be what you wanted or expected but it beats the option she is offering: Sharing your wife.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 9858   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8614070
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faithfulman ( Member #66002) posted at 12:04 AM on Friday, December 4th, 2020

Maybe IC’s, councelors, psycologists and psychiatrists are all snake-oil peddlers. Maybe not. It’s not relevant and I do hope this thread won’t be twisted into a long-worded discussion of their efficiency. Don’t see it help you in any way Dan, especially since I think you might need one of those “snake-oil salesmen” to help with your personal trauma and recovery.

I did not see anyone describe anyone else as a "snake-oil salesman". That almost seems like putting words in the mouths of others.

However, my point was, and I think it is extremely helpful, that you cannot count on any mental health professional to somehow externally re-wire your wife's morals and behavior. That is the road to ruin.

For that matter, you cannot have that expectation from a mental health professional - even a great one! - for yourself.

You have to make that commitment to reflect on yourself and heal. ***Maybe*** a good therapist can help you. Don't be surprised if you do go to a therapist and their advice is to "get over it". It's happened before, trust me.

If you do seek out a therapist, shop around until you find a good one.

I sure hope this thread won’t be twisted into a long-worded discussion where some posters cluck their tongues at others who are making valid points with regard to specific aspects of this unfortunate situation because it does not fit with their own worldview.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 6:06 PM, December 3rd (Thursday)]

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Talisman ( Member #75398) posted at 1:10 PM on Friday, December 4th, 2020

Dan, the south of France is an awesome place to be/live so I can understand anyone wanting to live there.

However, did she ever ask you to move back there? Before her mother got ill?

And how did she happen to run into this POS while she was there? One of them must have reached out to the other. Also, it may have started before she even got there which means there is more to this story (from her side).

Why is she not coming outright and saying that she does not want to be with you? If its the life in the USA that she does not like. Having an affair is one thing - and yes it is very unethical for a mental healthcare professional like him to do this. If he reached out and she succumbed there may be a sliver of doubt in her mind about the relationship (nothing to do with moving to France). If she reached out, then she is definitely moving on from you.

You say that you had a great marriage, so apart from living in the USA, why would she want to break up marriage instead of asking you to move to France?

And how would you feel about moving to what I would refer to as God's country (Meditteranean, French food and wine, the Riviera, and easy access to the Italian Riviera and Catalunya) if she asked you to? Is there something that anchors you to living in the USA?

Also how did you find out when it started and when it got "hot"? What is the phone call that you refer to in your first post about? Is she saying that she is in love with him? Does she know why he got divorced (and if so is she OK with it)? Might be that he is just comfortable to be with at her age and she is not looking for anything more.

How old is he? And under what circumstances did you meet him 50 years ago?

Is there any value in her decimated business? I am hoping he is not a gold-digger. Would she be OK financially if she went to live in France?

Just trying to get a clearer picture in order to offer my tuppence worth of advice.

In short, what went wrong in your marriage apart from her not liking living in the USA?

[This message edited by Talisman at 7:17 AM, December 4th (Friday)]

posts: 72   ·   registered: Sep. 11th, 2020   ·   location: UK
id 8614174
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 Dan90254 (original poster Member #75925) posted at 1:28 PM on Friday, December 4th, 2020

Talisman,

We are from a small town, Vence, located roughly between Nice and Cannes. The three of us. She was there taking care of her elderly mother because her stupid sister doesnt want to help. He was , as I said earlier, her first boyfriend. In March of 2019, the stupid sister ran into him in a pharmacy and told him that my wife was in town. He gave the sister his phone numb who in turn gave it to my wife. She reached out to him. They had not seen or talked to each other for 48 years. They talked and went out for dinner and...voila.

The South of France is a great area but I like Southern California better. We ve been here since 1980. We have a great house with ocean view and I can play golf all year for very little money. Can’t do in France.

No she has not offered me to move back with her. She also has not apologized for the pain she caused. I think she sees herself as Francesca/Meryl Streep in Bridges of Madison County and acted on her impulse. Sort of last hourrah.

We went to see an attorney moderator yesterday. Very depressing.

posts: 50   ·   registered: Nov. 29th, 2020   ·   location: Southern California
id 8614176
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 Dan90254 (original poster Member #75925) posted at 1:49 PM on Friday, December 4th, 2020

Talisman,

We are from a small town, Vence, located roughly between Nice and Cannes. The three of us. She was there taking care of her elderly mother because her stupid sister doesnt want to help. He was , as I said earlier, her first boyfriend. In March of 2019, the stupid sister ran into him in a pharmacy and told him that my wife was in town. He gave the sister his phone numb who in turn gave it to my wife. She reached out to him. They had not seen or talked to each other for 48 years. They talked and went out for dinner and...voila.

The South of France is a great area but I like Southern California better. We ve been here since 1980. We have a great house with ocean view and I can play golf all year for very little money. Can’t do in France.

No she has not offered me to move back with her. She also has not apologized for the pain she caused. I think she sees herself as Francesca/Meryl Streep in Bridges of Madison County and acted on her impulse. Sort of last hourrah.

We went to see an attorney moderator yesterday. Very depressing.

50 years ago he was part of my brother’s circle of friends. I knew who he was. Apparently he doesnt remember me. He is 3-4 years than me so I guess he’s around 70.

My wife and I worked hard , especially her, she would have no financial problems living there. She owns a condo free of debts.

She called on 11/03 . I had sent her a text asking her if she was thinking of ever coming back. She left Jan18 then got stuck when Clovid struck. During that call she coped out of liking there and not coming back . I became suspicious and asked her if she had met someone. She told me yes and told me who it was. I got the rest of the story last week after she flew back on the 24 th.

I know their affair became hot probably in Oct 2019. We had sex in late Aug 2019 and I know she would not have consented if she were already banging him. In her own peculiar way she is honest. She became faithful to him. When she came back last week she made it clear that I couldn’t kiss her, touch her...

She has not said she loved him but she said “ he is very interesting”. Same difference .

There was nothing wrong in our marriage that I could remember. We very seldom argue, we never called each other names. I was unaware of any problems.

posts: 50   ·   registered: Nov. 29th, 2020   ·   location: Southern California
id 8614182
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Bigger ( Guide #8354) posted at 2:32 PM on Friday, December 4th, 2020

Unless it’s to your advantage then there is no “her condo” and “her company”. It’s marital assets and how to divide them. You mention being fair and I am totally 100% in favor of fair; if you were married in CA and have been living there most of your married life then it’s marital property.

I doubt you have much use for half a condo in France, but the value of the condo might offset whatever right she might have to your 401k or Roth IRA or even your custom-made golf clubs.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 9858   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8614212
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Junior ( Member #22589) posted at 2:32 PM on Friday, December 4th, 2020

Dan, it makes me sad to see you here, my condolences on the "death" of the woman you married.

I'm happy to hear that you did not start smoking those .38 specials. They will kill you faster than 2 packs of Camel straights a day.

Your ability to use reason and your stoicism are admirable traits. Cudo's to you for getting your mind right and dealing with this head on. The best way to go IMHO.

Your STBXW is on a collision course with reality that will hit her like a ton of bricks. Once she has lost her fall back option, having you as a safety net. That will be the first of several heavy blows that will strike her. Next will be when her Mom dies. Then the reality of a full on relationship, minus the excitement of the forbidden fruit aspect. An eye opener, when the realization that Mr. Wonderful has warts and blemishes just like any other human does. He may even do some philandering as he starts to tire of her company. All along the money will slowly dwindle as saving her business here is not an option. She will drown slowly.

Given the choice I would do exactly what you are. Not playing any part in the pick me dance and staying close to the, I'm assuming, loyal son.

She may even at some point in the future try to get you back. Don't let her surprise you with that. Be prepared just in case.

Stay strong and stick with your beliefs so you can respect yourself in the end. It may not seem like it at times but you are doing well. Don't be afraid to grieve your loss, wrap your arms around it and process it. It's alright to be sad, angry, disappointed and even cry at times. Just let it flow and don't fight it.

Best wishes, my thoughts and prayers are with you. May you survive this infidelity, then heal quickly and completely.

posts: 198   ·   registered: Jan. 24th, 2009   ·   location: Pacific Northwest
id 8614213
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 Dan90254 (original poster Member #75925) posted at 2:48 PM on Friday, December 4th, 2020

Bigger,

I raised the point yesterday and the attorney emphatically said that because it was a gift from her mother I have zero rights to it.

She also has zero rights to the inheritance money that I put in our living trust when my mother passed away in 2016.

On the other hand I receive a pension from the City and she will get 50% of that.

posts: 50   ·   registered: Nov. 29th, 2020   ·   location: Southern California
id 8614228
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 Dan90254 (original poster Member #75925) posted at 2:51 PM on Friday, December 4th, 2020

Her business was doing very well but was decimated. I could claim 50% of her 50% ( she has a partner) but right now that 25% is next to zero.

Business was in the travel industry

posts: 50   ·   registered: Nov. 29th, 2020   ·   location: Southern California
id 8614233
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 4:19 PM on Friday, December 4th, 2020

I sure hope this thread won’t be twisted into a long-worded discussion where some posters cluck their tongues at others who are making valid points with regard to specific aspects of this unfortunate situation because it does not fit with their own worldview.

Boom goes the dynamite.

The passive-aggressive thought policing grows tiresome.

However, my point was, and I think it is extremely helpful, that you cannot count on any mental health professional to somehow externally re-wire your wife's morals and behavior. That is the road to ruin.

Yep. The magical thinking around talk therapy is misplaced. Not saying it CANNOT be helpful at all. Of course it can. We should probably have limited expectations for how transformative it can be in most cases, especially given the empirical data on how efficacious it actually is.

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:24 AM, December 4th (Friday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4217   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8614295
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Talisman ( Member #75398) posted at 6:07 PM on Friday, December 4th, 2020

Thanks for the reply Dan.

I do know the area a little bit - I used to spend time on business in Nice (and Cannes for the expos) and I would extend these into vacation trips along that coast - St Tropez, Cannes, Nice (a little bit), Monte Carlo etc and occassionally further up into Aix-en-Provence.

But you are American now with the Golf and the Southern California vibe! :) Good for you.

It seems that her sister is in fact stupid but even if she wasn't, I think your wife would have been convinced to stay anyway. I don't think she enjoys the same things that you do in California (does she golf?) and probably got reminded of how good home was when she got back - its a laid back environment with good food and wine and she probably misses the French language and customs.

At least she has been honest with you re the affair. Interesting that she had sex with you in Aug 2019 but not after because she was now sleeping with the 70 year old! Is sex a big deal for her? Is she sexually attracted to you, if so? What about to him? Seeing as she is honest, she will give you honest answers to these questions and help you with your decisions.

If not he offers some link with her past, some familiarity and some companionship (he is interesting) and he appears to be a 70 year old bad boy (with the women) and maybe that has some attraction.

There doesn't seem to be love involved anywhere in her life (now - don't know about before or at the start) apart from her mother so maybe you are best off without her. I guarantee there will be a queue of attractive women wanting to get to know you as soon as she leaves (she probably realises this but doesn't care).

The problem seems to be that she puts her wants and needs and maybe even, comforts, above anything to do with romantic relationships. So if it was not him, she would find someone else there.

As for assets etc you both seem to be well off without each others money although it sucks that you have to share some of yours with her. Make sure that the POS is not a gold digger because he may encourage her to come after your money.

I maybe wrong and await your answers to some of my questions here but it seems like:

She prefers France (understandable).

She is indifferent to you.

She is slightly less indifferent to him (because of the novelty I suspect - this will change with time).

She might be asexual.

She is done with her current life more than being done with you.

She will not sleep with two men at the same time.

[This message edited by Talisman at 12:10 PM, December 4th (Friday)]

posts: 72   ·   registered: Sep. 11th, 2020   ·   location: UK
id 8614348
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 Dan90254 (original poster Member #75925) posted at 6:49 PM on Friday, December 4th, 2020

The first time we had sex was on a beach in Corsica in1972. We got married in 1977. We had our periods of sex drought but overall we pretty much did it 3-4 times per week on average. The last few years much less. I m recovering from 2 cancers , prostate and bladder, and those slowed me down. Not entirely but the libido is not what it used to be. On her side she once told me that I was hurting her. I could take that as a compliment but I know it ain’t. I’m just average. She could have used lubricants but she didn’t and didn’t seem to mind. We did other things not as satisfying but still pleasing.

I don’t think sex is the major element here although that guy used to be an athlete very good looking so even at 70 he probably still is.

She genuinely likes the area around Vence and the French lifestyle byt she never really left them. She worked for several airlines before opening her own travel store 25 years ago so we always travelled back and forth many times a year. We flew all the time for free and very often first class. She must have done the round trip LA-Nice 200 times easy. So it’s not like she was ever very far away and for a long period of time.

She was slightly overweight in her forties then one day she decided to get in shape and boy did she ever. Running,hiking ,yoga ,gymnastics and super strict diet. She just turned 67 and looks fantastic. I hiked with her for several years but can’t anymore due to two bad knees. When I say hiking I mean backpacking across the Sierra Nevada for 8 days. Not a two hour hike up the Malibu canyon.

She s got tremendous energy and will outwork anyone in her field. She won several travel awards.

I don’t know the details of her affair. She won’t say. But she told me the big outlines brutally the other day as she was walking on the Strand ( Manhattan beach) and I was pedaling next to her.

She did something really low.

Last year she returned from France on Dec15. She is all smile and vibrant. We had not seen each other for 2 months. Suddenly she tells me that she is flying to Martinique over New Year’s Eve to visit some girls that she had met the summer before. I was not happy and let her know. She went and came back 5 days later. There were no girls in Martinique but her boyfriend who was doing a substitution in a hospital.

That hurt terribly.

posts: 50   ·   registered: Nov. 29th, 2020   ·   location: Southern California
id 8614360
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 Dan90254 (original poster Member #75925) posted at 6:55 PM on Friday, December 4th, 2020

She does not golf but once she flew back from Paris one day earlier to watch the final day of the Masters with me.

posts: 50   ·   registered: Nov. 29th, 2020   ·   location: Southern California
id 8614363
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fareast ( Member #61555) posted at 7:55 PM on Friday, December 4th, 2020

Dan90254:

Sorry you have ended up here but you will receive good support. This is a bitter betrayal to swallow at any t8me, but especially now at this stage of life. As a cancer survivor you know how precious every moment can be. Do not let her abandoning your M, steal more time away from you. Take care of you. Do not let her drag you down. You already have proven you are resilient. This is her loss. Do not engage with her. Only communicate on finances and the D, and only then minimally. From what you have shared, my guess is that if COVID19 had not hit, she would have done this early this year. She was already deep into her infidelity. She has been gone a long time already. Good luck.

Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.

posts: 2794   ·   registered: Nov. 24th, 2017
id 8614370
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KingofNothing ( Member #71775) posted at 7:56 PM on Friday, December 4th, 2020

That hurt terribly.

Dan, it seems like she is going out of her way to hurt you these days. Is she having some sort of mental breakdown? Was she always this cruel?

Rex Nihilo, the King of Nothing
----------------------------------
“If you’re going through hell, keep going. Just please stop screaming, it’s not good for morale.”
— Winston Churchill

BS 3 DDays/Attempted R, it failed. In a better place

posts: 769   ·   registered: Oct. 7th, 2019   ·   location: East Coast USA
id 8614371
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 Dan90254 (original poster Member #75925) posted at 8:18 PM on Friday, December 4th, 2020

No she wasn’t and never did anything mean. In fact more than once she really supported me and helped when she could have left and no one would have blamed her. She s a different woman in many ways. I’m simply no longer part of her world.

In one of her e mail she wrote “ i still love you but in a different way”. BS . You either love me as a husband or you don’t and we’re done.

posts: 50   ·   registered: Nov. 29th, 2020   ·   location: Southern California
id 8614378
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3yrsout ( Member #50552) posted at 8:34 PM on Friday, December 4th, 2020

I’m so sorry.

She’s not right in the head.

Amputate the gangrenous limb before it makes you septic.

Ugh. My heart goes out to you. Wtf is wrong with people?!?!?

You know what could be fun, because I’m tacky like this? I’d suggest to her attorney that you have concerns she has dementia, and request a psych eval to make sure she is fit to make her own decisions. Frankly, it could be a sign of dementia. No joke (MD here).

posts: 528   ·   registered: Nov. 27th, 2015
id 8614384
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Newlifeisgreat ( Member #71308) posted at 9:29 PM on Friday, December 4th, 2020

Will you get part of her business?

Betrayed SpouseShe cheated and I filed immediately upon discovering. She never even suspected that I knew until the moment she was served with reason being AdulteryDivorced 9/18Now VERY happy with new life, 0 regrets

posts: 664   ·   registered: Aug. 17th, 2019
id 8614395
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Buffer ( Member #71664) posted at 9:37 PM on Friday, December 4th, 2020

So sorry brother.

At the end of the day her family helped her re establish contact. Time to claim 50% of her business (25%) in total and D. Just because her travel business is doing poor doesn’t mean you reward her.

Stop enabling her and D.

One day at a time.

Buffer

posts: 1191   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2019   ·   location: Australia
id 8614396
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