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After 43 years....

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guvensiz posted 3/16/2021 19:35 PM

The next time she tries to do something like this, ask her without showing any emotional attitude what makes her think she can tell you these things or that you want to listen to them.
Explain to her that you were once married, not friends. Because it's over (due to her immoral behavior) now she is your nothing and you don't want her to come as if nothing happened and tell you about her new life, not only on this subject but on any ordinary subject from now on, and actually you don't care about them.
Tell her that you are starting a new life in which she is not involved and you don't want to go to a new place in Las Vegas with her because you don't want any traces of her in your new life.
If you have no legal work left to do with her, leave her behind and go on vacation or something. Show her that you move on too and actually "move on".

Bigger posted 3/16/2021 19:39 PM

Dan Ė OF COURSE you are hurt.
You donít mention her company in the D processÖ Are you cutting your losses and letting that slide?

Dan90254 posted 3/16/2021 21:20 PM

The petition indicated that the value of her business was TBD. To Be Determined. 50% each of her 50%. Which right now is worth zero. They, she and her partner, are hoping on a loan/gift from the SBA to tie them up until the fall.
Also for the first time ever she said that she was tired of working, tired of fighting for customers, tired of her partner etc...
Maybe she is having a nice romance with OM but she sure doesnt look like shes having a good time. She looks terrible.

grubs posted 3/16/2021 22:20 PM

She is not the same woman I knew. I don't like the hew her and yet I'm still hurting and feeling very sad.
Affairs impact all involved but most especially the BS & WS. The mental gymnastics done to reconcile the act of betrayal with being a good person warps the wayward.

Dan90254 posted 3/17/2021 21:57 PM

I cancelled the trip to LV last night. She asked why and I matter of factly answered that it was a bad idea. No reply from her. That was the end.

Stevesn posted 3/17/2021 22:48 PM

I commend you. I might of had to say something like ďbecause thatís my new life, something that your actions made quite clear youíre not longer a part of. ď

But Iím just glad you canceled.

Please cut back any unnecessary interactions.

Marz posted 3/18/2021 00:42 AM

Contact is just more pain. Cut it off.

Dennylast posted 3/18/2021 10:39 AM

Dan, when will this be over for you? Meaning divorce finalized?
Also, if I were you, the last time you see her I would make sure she knows how you feel about her affair. It is not a romance but a dirty betrayal. I am your age as well and my wife and I have already purchased burial plots. If you have make sure she knows you do not want her buried beside you. That would make a powerful statement.
One other question. I guess the OM was married before if he has children so he will most likely be buried with his wife. This will leave your ex alone after she dies. I know this is morbid but it may be a shock to her to hear it.

[This message edited by Dennylast at 10:41 AM, March 18th (Thursday)]

Unsure2019 posted 3/18/2021 13:30 PM


Why on earth are you picking her up at the airport and acting as her chauffer? She dumped you in a most painful way. Tell her from now on, she needs to make her own arrangements. I would not drive her back to the airport when she flies back to her lover.

[This message edited by Unsure2019 at 3:21 PM, March 18th (Thursday)]

guvensiz posted 3/18/2021 14:15 PM

I cancelled the trip to LV last night.

You did well. But it would be better if you didn't cancel and you went alone or with friends or with a nice lady you like.

I know it hurts, but you should try living well without her. With her AP, a new excitement has come to her life and her eyes may not see anything else. This is nothing unusual. At this stage, instead of showing anger, resentment, sadness, or any other emotion towards her, it would be best to pretend that you are not even aware of her existence. This is what she does, and you should too. Actually, I am wrong, that's not what she does, it's even worse, she comes and tells you what she did with her AP. It crossed my mind again today, how can a person be so bad, so disrespectful and so unempathetic? She knew that at best you don't care, at worst it would hurt you. What did she think, would you be happy for her or something? Why is she still pushing. Stop!

MountainGuy posted 3/18/2021 19:22 PM


Good call on cancelling the Vegas trip. She wants to cheat on you, rub it in your face and pretend that somehow you two can be friends.

I think we all realize how ridiculous, and selfish, that is. When I was in a similar situation I walked away, and walked away angry. Anger is an energy. It can get you up in the morning, get you out the door and moving on with your life. Keeping her in your life just prolongs the healing period, the time you need to get over her and find some happiness and peace for yourself. She's obviously not interested in your well being, mental or emotional, she's doing this to maintain her own lie that she's not the bad guy, that this is an okay thing. Fuck that. Let her know how you feel, that she betrayed you and your trust.

Just because she's fine with cheating on you doesn't mean you have to be. Your life after this divorce, after her, is just that; Your Life. Not hers. There is no reason she needs to be included. No reason she needs to see your new home, or even ever see you again. Your children are grown, you are, or should be, selling what remains of your community property. You and her are over, there is just Dan the Man now. She's made her choice, now its time to make yours.

I'm rooting for you man. You got dealt a bad hand by someone you should have been able to trust with the remainder of your life. But I think you've got some aces coming your way.

Dan90254 posted 3/18/2021 23:21 PM

As I said before Iím not going to make any waves till the ink is dry. That should take 6 months. In CA thats the minimum. Why? Because she can get 20% more of my pension if she gets pissed at me. She is ENTITLED to 50% but agreed to 30% against her attorney advice. Thats about $1500/month for life. A lot of money for my budget.
She is not as bad as some of you think. She is more tactless than vicious and mean. She is also very stressed with her mother declining health amid a very bad Covid situation in the south of France. They live in one area particularly impacted by the virus.
In response to the burial sites.
This consideration is totally irrelevant for us. We are atheists and do not care one iota how our corpses will be disposed of.
Finally I picked her up at the airport because she asked me to and...I love her . I still do, yes.

Marz posted 3/18/2021 23:35 PM

Finally I picked her up at the airport because she asked me to and...I love her . I still do, yes.

You know the feelings arenít mutual by her actions.

I get not rocking the boat but Iíd try and ease into no contact.

Bigger posted 3/19/2021 09:05 AM

There is no need to hate her.
There are some ďfactsĒ that we can work from:
1) This divorce is not your choice. Itís not what you wanted or expected. Itís forced on you. IMHO its an inevitable consequence of her choices, but itís not what you wished for or how you foresaw your future. That probably makes you feel like you had no control or no say on this issue.
2) You have a long, long marriage and history. So long that this marriage probably defines a lot on how you see yourself. All of a sudden that very basis has been shaken.
3) Iím guessing the long marriage has itís fair share of happy moments. This is the woman that made you most happy, and is now causing you the most pain. Realizing and grasping that the same person can do both is daunting.
4) Your emotions wonít change or simply go away. This takes time and a lot of adjustment.

If you are up to it then I would recommend a good talk with her. Sort of define where you are and how you feel about whatís going on. Not to ask her to come back or anything, but to explain how you feel betrayed and how you need time to recover. How hearing about her happiness in France and about her new lover isnít doing you any good. How you feel that you are being forced to rethink and reevaluate whatís left of your life on a different path than what you envisioned all your life.
You should be able to do this in a non-confrontational manner, and if she is expecting you to be able to cope with her decision then she too should be able to hear this in a non-confrontational manner.

I personally would also approach the lifestyle aspectsÖ How you envisioned a comfortable life on your pension, her income and then the sale of her company when she retired. How that would have enabled both of you an ideal life. Now you feel like itís more give than take. After all: if you did not have your pension she couldnít be so nonchalant over the value of her business or her desire to not work. I have previously gone over my doubts about valuing the company based on the pandemic-period. IMHO it will be worth money in the next 2-3 yearsÖ

I think a conversation like this would go over better than being glum and the silent treatment. I think she would better understand that you need time and possibly distance to realize what your future relationship could and should be. Like I said in the beginning: you donít need to hate her. In fact I hope you two can have some form of amicable and even friendly relationship. But it wont be as deep as she seems to think it is IMHO.

asc1226 posted 3/19/2021 09:36 AM

If Biggerís suggestion appeals to you, you might want to consider putting it in writing. Much easier to edit out any tone of accusation.

Dennylast posted 3/19/2021 13:53 PM

I am an atheist as well. This is not about religion but more about saying to those that follow, this is who we were. Who we were with. Everyoneís different. Maybe that is meaningless to you. If so, drop it.
I agree that you that you do nothing until the divorce is final. Regarding why she talks to you about her AP that seems clear to me. She is trying to make it seem normal to you what she has done. If she can get you on board who would say otherwise. That appears important to her. Finally one last thought. How was your relationship with your mother in law? Do you think your wife has told her?

Dan90254 posted 3/19/2021 19:44 PM

Bigger thank you I will follow some of your advice. Before she returns I would like her to give me an account a sort of timeline with her states of mind and emotions while her affair started, blossomed and progressed to the point that she now practically lives with the guy. I would like to know when she scratched me off as her husband and/or replaced me with OM. It would serve no purpose whatsoever at this stage but somehow I would like to know. Morbidity? Self mutilation? Probably but I'd like to know.
I'd also like to know if some situation that came back to me from memory the last several months were accidental or planned. I told you about the trip to Martinique of last New Year's Eve. Before that trip we were ( 3 of us) in Ireland and on day as we were visiting the Causeway of Giants I stayed behind with our friend who had trouble walking and WS hiked ahead on the trail. Way way ahead. I could see her red jacket up the cliff several hundred meters up and ahead of us. At the time I thought it was because she enjoyed hiking so much and couldn't stay with us progressing at our snail pace. But now I think she was only attempting to get 15-20 minutes advance time to use her phone undisturbed. Same scenario 3 days later on the beach at Strandhill. Finally in early January she told me that she was going and stay in France from Jan18 to Mar28 at her sister's demand. I was surprised at the length of time , she had never stayed that long but she repeatedly said her sister was insisting that she stayed that much time. Very strange . She probably planned it herself and lied to me about her sister asking for it. Then the pandemic struck and she lucked out because suddenly she couldn't come back any more with great legitimate excuses.

Finally I had a very good rapport with my mother in law. We got along very nicely all these years. We played tennis together, we ran 10 ks, we sang, we laughed, we talked politics etc.. we usually had a very good time. She is now almost 90 and declining mentally very quickly. She cannot read anymore cannot watch TV more than a few minutes at a time and her general health is not good. She does not know that her daughter and I are divorcing. She has lost the sense of time and she thinks I was in France for Xmas. I haven't been there in 5 years.

I was not in the medical field but I saw dozens of dead bodies in my line of work. For me a dead body is just a mass of tissues and bones. I don't believe there is a soul a heaven and a hell. Nothing but organic stuff that will decompose over time. With some exceptions, I know. You can do whatever you want with my body once I'm dead. Just make sure I'm really dead please.

Organic2003 posted 3/19/2021 21:30 PM


I am just posting to let you know I am thinking of you and mourning with you. Her betrayal is horrible and so sad, doesn't make any sense to me. Putting the puzzle of our life together is normal, I hope you can have a talk with her. That talk, could show you a better picture of her betrayal but steel yourself she might hurt you some more. She may even "feel you" but don't give too much emotion to her if possible.

The trip you canceled and her attitude "we are friends" is her way of making her affair more palatable to those around her. Don't fall for it keep and arms length from her would be best IMO.

It looks like you are doing the best that can be expected in this sad situation. May you find a bright future out of this somehow.


guvensiz posted 3/19/2021 22:52 PM

I would say that the things you want to talk won't help you, but you are already aware of this and you just want to talk to satisfy your curiosity. But talking about this things, especially about your emotions completely free of emotions will not be easy for you. If the conversation somewhere turns into a pick me dance, you'll look pretty weak in her eyes.
She doesn't care about your feelings anyway. In addition to that, I worry that if you see her unwillingness and gripe to talk about these issues, you will be more disappointed. Of course you know her better than anyone here, but now you have to admit that she is a little different from the person you know. Caring, loving, understanding, etc. These are not general cheater behavior, but I don't know, maybe mature cheaters are more understanding and honest when talking about the real emotions about their AP and BS. I'm not saying this as irony, I really don't know. I just remember my experiences with my XGF's; how cruel, how reckless they can be, how they stabbed in the back and twisted the knife inside when you asked for help.
This talk means asking for help and it could have worse results than you hoped.
I don't think it will be helpful to ask questions about past. I would only suggest that you inform your XW of your new boundaries. And these new boundaries should mean almost NC. You don't have to hate her, you don't have to be enemies with her. But I wouldn't recommend to be friends or friendly either. You can be kind (or not rude) when you communicate, but you don't have to be friendly. This would be a gift for her which she doesn't deserve.
I am not native English speaker, I hope I expressed my opinion correctly. Let me give an example from my own experience for a better understanding.
My XWGF broke up with me, but we still communicated via e-mail rarely. She would ask me questions like "How are you?" "How is your life going?" At the beginning I answered, I explained what happened in my life. But then it started to bother me. And I wrote this to her; "Look, I don't want to be rude and don't get me wrong, but it was your choice to get out of my life. I don't know what's going on in your life and I don't want to know either. After all that happened, it bothers me very much and seems unfair to me that you write an e-mail once a year to ask and learn about what is going on in my life. Please don't ask me about my life from now on.

I think this was not rude, but also not friendly. I just made the boundaries clear.

Bigger posted 3/20/2021 06:42 AM

There are absolute truths and there are relative truths.
Absolute is 1+1=2
Relative is believing the last car you passed was blue, when in fact is was gray. For you it was blue Ė you arenít lying if you claim it was blue but that doesnít change the true color of the car.

I think you are looking for absolutes from someone that is offering relative. She wonít acknowledge she raced up the hill to contact OM, but that she already had her doubts about the marriage and wanted to be alone, or that going slow troubled her exercise. Even if the real reason was to contact OM.

I donít think you will get your answers. IMHO focus on the closure and the future. Stick to explaining how you feel and how you need Ö peaceÖ to move on.

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