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Neurofeedback?? EMDR??

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gmc94 ( Member #62810) posted at 7:29 AM on Tuesday, December 29th, 2020

Hey GTeam... hope it goes well. One thing my EMDR IC was really good at was encouraging me as I dug deep during EMDR (things like: that was very brave, etc).

So even if your IC doesn't verbalize like that, it IS brave to let yourself be vulnerable during EMDR, to dig deep in front of another human, etc. There were moments when my consciousness or protective parts would kind of come up and give me a negative self talk, so I had to be mindful in those moments to keep an open mind.

Wishing you a productive session.... be forewarned, you may - or may not - be wiped out afterwards. I had sessions where I left feeling really refreshed and like a weight had been lifted... and others where I felt I'd been hit by a mack truck!

M >25yrs/grown kids
DD1 1994 ONS prostitute
DD2 2018 exGF1 10+yrEA & 10yrPA... + exGF2 EA forever & "made out" 2017
9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived

It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies

posts: 3367   ·   registered: Feb. 22nd, 2018
id 8620348
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Hedwig ( Member #74175) posted at 8:31 PM on Tuesday, December 29th, 2020

Good luck on your first EMDR session tomorrow, GTeamReboot! I'll be thinking of you.

Also, have you listened to the podcast with Dr Minwalla and Marnie Beecker? That's what gmc94 was referencing in one of her posts. I think the podcast gives a good idea of what to expect from an MC that actually understands betrayal trauma and how to treat a couple that comes in for betrayal trauma. It might help you put into a framework your feelings about the things your MC said.

Dday - 10/2018
Caught them, EMDR helped
Ended the relationship after false R for 1,5 years

posts: 261   ·   registered: Apr. 8th, 2020
id 8620512
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 GTeamReboot (original poster Member #72633) posted at 4:23 AM on Thursday, December 31st, 2020

There was a scheduling mixup and my EMDR starts next week! They just changed office managers and I was supposed to be contacted about rescheduling and wasn’t. Ugh. All worked up and excited/nervous for nothing! Lol! Next Tuesday.

I’ve heard of that podcast and I think I listened to it but I’ll find it again to focus on that aspect.

Our good stretch continues. I feel a little more on edge the past couple days but he has found small ways to reassure me that have kept me at the edge but not falling over it. Yet. Lol! Still wish I felt a little better. I guess time will tell.

Me- BW, 45 (FWH, 47); DDay Oct 2019 - Double Betrayal (x2) during Aug-Sept 2018. Hard at work in R! Whole story in Bio
I tend to make little edits for clarity and typos!

posts: 497   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2020
id 8620838
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 GTeamReboot (original poster Member #72633) posted at 6:21 AM on Thursday, January 7th, 2021

I had my first session of EMDR yesterday. It was difficult, but not as intense and awful as I was bracing for. I had headphones with tones back and forth and volume changed at times, plus corresponding little vibrating things I held in my hands. She talked me through the key triggers associated with my mess. Interestingly she told me that my strongest physical reaction (pulse etc) was stronger around the when I was revisiting the fact that it was friends who he betrayed me with, and let me keep being friends with. More so than simply the infidelity. I wasn’t surprised that’s true but a little surprised she could tell.

I’ve also been doing neurofeedback and even had a session right after EMDR (yesterday was exhausting but FWH was very supportive both before and after so that was good). I can share more on that if anyone is curious. I remain unsure if or how much this stuff helps. But I will say we’ve had a smoother and calmer month overall than we had in quite a while. Some of that is him stepping up his game, so maybe it’s hard to tease apart the cause and effect. But I don’t mind throwing everything at it! Give me empathetic talk therapy, fix my thought processes with neurofeedback gadgets, desensitize my trauma triggers with EMDR, counsel us as a couple. All the things! Lol!

Today we had our second couples session with this same counselor. I posted earlier about our first session last month. I’ll say this one went much better (not that I was dissatisfied the first time, just had some reservations). She’s very different than my IC. But it feels like a good fit for us as a couple so far.

Here’s to a better 2021. Still So Pissed that I’m having to work so hard.

Me- BW, 45 (FWH, 47); DDay Oct 2019 - Double Betrayal (x2) during Aug-Sept 2018. Hard at work in R! Whole story in Bio
I tend to make little edits for clarity and typos!

posts: 497   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2020
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Radney ( Member #75125) posted at 7:23 PM on Wednesday, February 10th, 2021

My son had neurofeedback for 2 years. It was very helpful, but, I think mc would be more helpful for relationship challenges.

posts: 56   ·   registered: Aug. 7th, 2020   ·   location: Atlanta
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ladyphoenix ( Member #72766) posted at 3:05 PM on Friday, February 19th, 2021

I don’t know how I missed your update!

I am happy to hear that your first session went well and that you are feeling a little more settled. Interesting about the physiological response to the friendship betrayal. I would definitely want to explore that some more.

I am also happy to hear that your WH is stepping up and that your MC is seeming like a good fit.

It is awful that we as BS have to work so hard to overcome the trauma inflicted upon us. It makes me want to scream about how unfair life is, and then I remind myself that it’s not about fair, it’s about healing ourselves.

I had my first session this week. Our focus is going to be on “first, worst, and most recent” so it will be a few sessions in before I even get to the present day triggers (I wish I could fast forward to the end of this). Dealing with feelings of abandonment from my childhood will clear the tracks for dealing with the same feelings in my marriage. Her analogy is of a memory train chugging along the tracks to store the memories but the trauma is blocking the tracks, clear the trauma and the memory can move on to where it needs to go instead of circling. We used the hand buzzers and they seemed to work well for me. I was exhausted by the end..note to self: do not wear mascara to emdr sessions. Lol

Please keep us updated on how it’s going for you. I am silently cheering for you from afar! I would love to hear about the neurofeedback as well. Anything that helps get your brain back is good news.

M 23 years, together 29. DD1 Feb 2019, DD2(TT) June 2019, DD3 (TT) July 2019, (TT) March 2020, (TT) Sept 2020We have 3 children: 22,18, 13 and a grandson April 2019. We work daily on R and building a stronger relationship.

posts: 93   ·   registered: Feb. 8th, 2020   ·   location: Canada
id 8634482
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gmc94 ( Member #62810) posted at 6:55 PM on Friday, February 19th, 2021

note to self: do not wear mascara to emdr sessions.

ain't that the truth!!!

M >25yrs/grown kids
DD1 1994 ONS prostitute
DD2 2018 exGF1 10+yrEA & 10yrPA... + exGF2 EA forever & "made out" 2017
9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived

It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies

posts: 3367   ·   registered: Feb. 22nd, 2018
id 8634580
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 GTeamReboot (original poster Member #72633) posted at 5:25 AM on Monday, February 22nd, 2021

It’s too late at night for a full update but I’m overdue for one. Ladyphoenix we should definitely keep swapping updates.

We’ve been out of town for a week then I needed to quarantine a bit. It will be a big gap without neurofeedback and I do miss it. Again it’s hard to be sure if it’s helping but my insurance coverage is good so I’m going to continue it!

I think mc would be more helpful for relationship challenges.

We MC too and I have IC, just monthly now. They serve different purposes. The neurofeedback is intended to help calm and retrain my mind through its hard wired tendency to flood and fixate and hyperanalyze. This should better equip me for the work of IC, MC, and perhaps a little more EMDR. I think I need to go one more time for some stuff that we didn’t fully get to. That stuff has plagued me more than it had, as if the space that opened by processing some crap just got filled by more of that crap. We also had one more very insightful MC session right before our trip. And then we did have a truly awesome family vacation.

And then of course I crashed emotionally, as is so common on this rollercoaster ride. Lows that follow the highs. The brain remains afraid to trust the good and happy and stable. The risk of hurt remains. Just one day at a time!

Me- BW, 45 (FWH, 47); DDay Oct 2019 - Double Betrayal (x2) during Aug-Sept 2018. Hard at work in R! Whole story in Bio
I tend to make little edits for clarity and typos!

posts: 497   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2020
id 8635062
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ladyphoenix ( Member #72766) posted at 1:29 PM on Friday, March 12th, 2021

GTeam, how is your EMDR going?

I had my second session this week. Had a huge headache afterward and was whole body exhausted by the time I got home. We did a lot of good work I think getting through my childhood issues (I honestly didn’t realize that I still had baggage, I thought I had dealt with it). I have learned that I am not holding on to blame, I am stuck on painful events that have resurfaced because of betrayal and abandonment.

I am still wanting to fast forward to the present day triggers. I am beginning to not be so hurt by the everyday triggers. I saw OW in her car recently and only had a small reaction, it didn’t derail my entire day so that’s progress.

Another session in two weeks...will update again.

M 23 years, together 29. DD1 Feb 2019, DD2(TT) June 2019, DD3 (TT) July 2019, (TT) March 2020, (TT) Sept 2020We have 3 children: 22,18, 13 and a grandson April 2019. We work daily on R and building a stronger relationship.

posts: 93   ·   registered: Feb. 8th, 2020   ·   location: Canada
id 8641309
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 GTeamReboot (original poster Member #72633) posted at 5:58 PM on Sunday, March 14th, 2021

Thanks for asking ladyphoenix!

I haven’t had EMDR again since the second session but I do have it this week!

We did a lot of good work I think getting through my childhood issues (I honestly didn’t realize that I still had baggage,

I had an IC session like that this past week. That was a couple days after my post in the R forum about feeling sad and numb despite R. That thread was helpful bc it helped me see things I could change for sure. I’ve found new wording like “if I’m going to stay in this marriage...” rather than always talking like staying is a given. (Even if it still mostly feels like a given). But it also put things in perspective. People suggesting my H isn’t a good candidate for R are wrong. He’s a good candidate for R but is executing R imperfectly. They are different things. And I shared all this with my IC and we talked about what I still need and why I need it. She asked a pointed question “How would you feel if he did these things you say you need that he hasn’t?...” And answering that led her to say “OK when in your past did you not feel that or get that need met such that getting it now is so hard and so important?” And that took some real digging but was very insightful. Later I plan to share with FWH bc it has to do with my dad who he admired and that man’s infidelity toward my mom. Their divorce. The ways I was put in the middle. Etc.

Meanwhile the next EMDR I hope to focus on some mind movies and images that are still just crushing me. I’ll update in another week or two on that! It seems it takes some time for the effects to fully settle in. She had warned me of that and now I believe it. I had wondered if it “worked” but some of what we focused on the last sessions truly doesn’t shake me as badly now. That took time to notice. But I have more crap to work on.

I’m glad to hear EMDR is feeling productive for you! Please keep sharing!

[This message edited by GTeamReboot at 11:58 AM, March 14th, 2021 (Sunday)]

Me- BW, 45 (FWH, 47); DDay Oct 2019 - Double Betrayal (x2) during Aug-Sept 2018. Hard at work in R! Whole story in Bio
I tend to make little edits for clarity and typos!

posts: 497   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2020
id 8641760
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 GTeamReboot (original poster Member #72633) posted at 7:50 PM on Sunday, March 14th, 2021

Oh meant to add... I’ve continued to go to Neurofeedback most weeks. From a schedule and copay budget standpoint I probably need to stop. She really left it up to me, said that if it helps to continue but I had done a good amount and could stop and see if the effects seem lasting. I would have thought maybe they do the brain mapping again to see if the changes are literally visible, but maybe not. When I see her for EMDR this week I plan to ask.

Me- BW, 45 (FWH, 47); DDay Oct 2019 - Double Betrayal (x2) during Aug-Sept 2018. Hard at work in R! Whole story in Bio
I tend to make little edits for clarity and typos!

posts: 497   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2020
id 8641780
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 GTeamReboot (original poster Member #72633) posted at 7:50 PM on Sunday, March 14th, 2021

Oh meant to add... I’ve continued to go to Neurofeedback most weeks. From a schedule and copay budget standpoint I probably need to stop. She really left it up to me, said that if it helps to continue but I had done a good amount and could stop and see if the effects seem lasting. I would have thought maybe they do the brain mapping again to see if the changes are literally visible, but maybe not. When I see her for EMDR this week I plan to ask.

Me- BW, 45 (FWH, 47); DDay Oct 2019 - Double Betrayal (x2) during Aug-Sept 2018. Hard at work in R! Whole story in Bio
I tend to make little edits for clarity and typos!

posts: 497   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2020
id 8641781
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 GTeamReboot (original poster Member #72633) posted at 2:06 AM on Sunday, March 21st, 2021

So I had EMDR last week. I had requested the appointment because I’ve been struggling with the visuals around the first affair, the one that marked the end of faithfulness. The one that involved two encounters. With previous EMDR I found myself focusing more on the drunken ONS with my very close friend. The double betrayal has been a huge factor of the trauma. And I have been less rattled by that in the recent weeks. Like when I think of it my reaction is just kinda flat. It’s a thing that happened. She’s gone from my life. I still have some triggers but coping much better. However it’s almost like the void was filled with the other affair affecting me extra worse.

Meanwhile I had recently had a really good IC appt where we were digging into my FOO connections to infidelity and how that has impacted my needs in recovery. My dad cheated on my mom. I never really worked through that. I was never sure what to think. I adored him and we were very close. He confessed thighs in me that no teen daughter should be expected to help their dad cope with. It didn’t phase me at the time. I have always been that strong person that people confide in. Still am. But I think it probably affected me more than I realized. And for sure I had no idea how much my mom was hurting! We don’t have the kind of relationship where I have told her any of this. She would be crushed. There’s no need. But I cry for her.

And all of this came out in EMDR. I don’t even know how my thought train went from very specific targets and triggers of my situation and ended up there with me crying for my mom and angry at my dad. She says it takes a little time for the full effects to be processed in the brain. That did seem true before. Here’s hoping I kicked a few demons to the sidelines! At least took away some of their power. Will report back later!

I had to take some time off from neurofeedback earlier this month. I’ve also had more trouble than usual the past few week. Physically too, BP really high. Maybe related? Maybe not. I’m back in the swing of going to that and will stick with it for a few more months.

Sadly the therapist ended the session telling me she couldn’t see us for MC anymore. She’s going through a divorce and said she could feel it affecting her ability to counsel couples. Counter transference. Good of her to be honest. But ugh. All the more reason for the “book club” approach I mentioned in another thread, while we decide if we want to look for yet a third one.

[This message edited by GTeamReboot at 10:13 PM, April 7th, 2021 (Wednesday)]

Me- BW, 45 (FWH, 47); DDay Oct 2019 - Double Betrayal (x2) during Aug-Sept 2018. Hard at work in R! Whole story in Bio
I tend to make little edits for clarity and typos!

posts: 497   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2020
id 8643667
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ladyphoenix ( Member #72766) posted at 8:40 PM on Wednesday, April 7th, 2021

Like when I think of it my reaction is just kinda flat. It’s a thing that happened

Yay you!!

This gives me so much hope.

I wonder if the void filling in making the other betrayal worse is your brain’s way of showing you what is next. That you are ready to process these feeling too.

When I was working on my kid memory of my mom leaving, I was 90% done that memory and my train of thought went to how my dad also let me down. That led to further reflections into the feeling of losing everything I ever knew. And that led to a huge physical reaction and sobbing about the A. My realization is that I am ready to process the pain from the A even though it scares me so much. I finished the kid memory and it also feels like “a thing that happened”

I am going to be doing EMDR every two weeks for the next few months. I am optimistic.

Would your MC be able to recommend someone for you both to see? At our most recent MC session my H said he needs to see someone to work on his own issues of why he had the A and how he can better respond to my trauma. She was able to suggest a couple people, one in her same practice and one outside of it. I know how hard it is to find someone, so I wish you luck and am hopeful regarding your book therapy in the mean time.

M 23 years, together 29. DD1 Feb 2019, DD2(TT) June 2019, DD3 (TT) July 2019, (TT) March 2020, (TT) Sept 2020We have 3 children: 22,18, 13 and a grandson April 2019. We work daily on R and building a stronger relationship.

posts: 93   ·   registered: Feb. 8th, 2020   ·   location: Canada
id 8648687
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 GTeamReboot (original poster Member #72633) posted at 5:43 PM on Saturday, April 10th, 2021

Would your MC be able to recommend someone for you both to see?

Honestly she asked if my IC would be willing to see us. Originally H had his own therapist at the same practice who he saw just a few times and the MC we did with them was all four of us. I don’t think he ever really clicked with his therapist, I could see that myself. And when they shut down he wasn’t interested in doing it by phone, which I understand. That’s a terrible fit for him. He has said that of the three therapists he has interacted with, he likes my IC the best. I think she generally has the attitude that it’s a conflict of interest for her to see me so much individually and then attempt MC on her own. But maybe she would let him join some of my individual sessions, given the weird times we are in and the long journey we have had. Maybe if she knows I am fine with that, she will do it. I talk to her next week and I will ask.

I had another weirdly vivid dream, this time involving FWH and my BFF (the second AP, the drunken ONS). It was upsetting but not terribly so. I woke up kind of feeling flat about it, that’s a thing that happened. I hope that’s the EMDR still doing its work. She did say that’s common in the weeks after EMDR. She didn’t seem to think I needed anymore. But I’m sure if I feel I do she will schedule it.

Hubby has listened to part of the book after the affair. I’m ahead of him in it but going to pause for now. I have felt like the whole first part isn’t that relevant to us (the A’s were not emotionally, not long term, long over, no ambivalence) but he says he can see some of his bad choices in the examples described. We will start listening together next week. I told him if he won’t make an appointment with a therapist and we don’t have an appointment with a MC, then he needs to make an appointment with me. Lol.

Neurofeedback continues. At this point it’s really just for me to do if I want to. I guess I’m kind of afraid to stop in case it’s making a big difference, yet really not sure if it’s making a big difference. It’s relaxing if nothing else. It’s covered but I have a copay and those are adding up! Affair recovery is expensive and that’s some bullshit right there.

Me- BW, 45 (FWH, 47); DDay Oct 2019 - Double Betrayal (x2) during Aug-Sept 2018. Hard at work in R! Whole story in Bio
I tend to make little edits for clarity and typos!

posts: 497   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2020
id 8649465
Topic is Sleeping.
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