SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I feel like my circumstances may completely differ from others on this site...

Two months ago, I drove me and my boyfriend home from a jack and jill party, obviously he had been drinking and I was the DD.

(Both the kids were asleep, my daughter and our son, blended family. It feels weird to call him my boyfriend because we’ve been together for over 4 years and we own a house and have a child together, but we’ve both been married before and don’t feel the need to be married by law again. But we always refer to each other as husband and wife even though it’s not “legal”)

When we got home, after the babysitter left, I couldn’t find my phone. I asked him to open his phone for me (it’s a face recognition open) so I could call myself to find my phone. His phone popped open to his text messages that was recently opened and I saw a message from “Megan” and it said “I miss you! When can we hang out again 😉😘”

I immediately scrolled back through the text feed and realized he’d been sleeping with this woman as recently as 4 days prior. I closed the conversation and saw another recent text feed with a woman simply titled as “tinder Ashley”

I shut his phone off immediately and went and sat outside to chain smoke cigs for the next 5 hours.

I’m not the snooping type. We have a polyamorous relationship and have been open about that desire from both of us since meeting. Many of you are probably at this point thinking, ok - well she asked for this type of relationship so why is she here. We had an agreement. We had open communication about our relationship rules and what we both needed from the other to feel secure, much like wedding vows. We agreed that for me to feel safe and secure all I needed was for him to talk to me about anything before hand. Literally just a text message “ hey I met this girl on a dating website and we are meeting up for coffee in 15 minutes” ... ok, I was cool with that. Thanks for letting me know, tell me about it later.

Two months ago when I found these messages I had no clue. I had been blind sided!

I sent him a text message so when he woke up the next morning hungover he would realize he needed to have a cup of coffee and be prepared to talk to me. I was so calm it was weird, maybe I was in shock. I asked who Megan was and it immediately turned into gaslighting.

“Why was I reading through his phone.

Why was I always making him feel bad about other women.

If I hadn’t made it so hard for him to communicate he wouldn’t have done this.

I made it too hard for him to talk to me because I made him feel guilty.” Etc etc

I know gaslighting is a normal reaction. As is anger. (I had been all over the internet reading all night) So when he told me we were more like roommates than a couple and told me if I wasn’t happy I could leave, I told him I was going for a walk.

I came home and we put the kids to bed and told him we needed to talk more.

I told him he broke my trust. I needed some things to start the healing process. I needed him to come clean with these women and tell them the truth - that I had no idea about them and that he cheated. He refused. He said he didn’t see the point in that and just ghosted these girls. I told him I needed access to his phone, that I needed the passcode and I needed to read the full conversations with these women. He refused. He said he wasn’t going to let me read things that would only make me more angry.

He has apologized to me me three times. Only once had been sober.

He hasn’t changed a single thing in his behavior or actions. He is honest when I ask him questions but is not forthcoming with anything. I feel like he should be fucking groveling! I feel like he should be doing whatever I want to make this right! Before I was in shock - now I am hurt and just seriously fucking pissed!!! And I don’t swear that much - I think it can lessen intellect. But fuck is the word that comes to my mind most.

I don’t know if I just needed to vent to people who have felt what I’m feeling or if I just needed to get all this off my chest but thank you.

Thank you for reading this.

And I’m so sincerely sorry. I know all of you who have read this are feeling or have felt in the past... this. And this truly fucking sucks. I’m so sorry you are here with me on this site. In this terrible awful lonely limbo state of being...

Hi Stargazer

I normally don't responded to a female poster, just don't feel I can relate well. First, yes you have been cheated on.

I am responding because my serial cheating wife and I tried swinging several times. We had rules and of course she broke them all. Sure I had fun, but would never do this with someone I really loved. I stayed in the relationship because she was not capable of raising our daughter.

Who's idea was it to have a poly relationship? From my experience it is usually the women but it sounds like in your case it was more of his idea. Many times the women is BI and wants to keep that going.

Do you have a boyfriend or girlfriend outside of the marriage? (I too think you are married)

Can you close the relationship now?

[This message edited by Organic2003 at 12:57 AM, September 13th, 2020 (Sunday)]

Hi Organic,

It was actually both of us who wanted a poly relationship. We were both poly separately and then met at a poly social group.

I truly do love him. Poly to me isn’t swinging or having an open relationship. It’s the opportunity to love more than one person at a time. I won’t get into the whole philosophy of why I think that way... it’s just who I am and how I think. And he seemed to line up with me in all aspects of this and we fell in love.

I do not have a relationship at this time. And neither did he. These women he was seeing were just people to have a physical relationship with and were not emotionally serious.

A closed relationship is not what either of us truly wants. I want that ability to love freely. But I also want it to be a part of my relationship with him. I want to be able to be open and honest about it.

I just don’t understand how he can have this “card”, this freedom in our relationship, and still lie about it and go behind my back and cheat.

Thank you for responding... and mostly for being understanding

Good Morning Stargazer,

Thank you for your response this morning,

I feel like my circumstances may completely differ from others on this site...

I wish you would get the full attention of SI it is such a great resource for getting out of infidelity. You have been betrayed in the worst possible way, do not let yourself believe otherwise.

He hasn’t changed a single thing in his behavior or actions. He is honest when I ask him questions but is not forthcoming with anything. I feel like he should be fucking groveling! I feel like he should be doing whatever I want to make this right! Before I was in shock - now I am hurt and just seriously fucking pissed!!! And I don’t swear that much - I think it can lessen intellect. But fuck is the word that comes to my mind most.

You should be angry, he should be FUCKING groveling, cussing can be a good way to express anger especially on the written page. Do not apologize for being pissed off! You have every right to be angry.

You should start reading posts in Just Found Out (JFO) here, you will learn about the hurt you have experienced, how and when you should reconcile (R) or if you should divorce (D).

Currently your husband is not (R) material. He shows no remorse for his betrayal. Being sorry, guilt, regret and remorse are all very different.

There is a saying here: You must be willing to end your relationship in order to save it. Can you get to the point of ending your marriage? Do not allow yourself to be anyone's doormat.

I told him he broke my trust. I needed some things to start the healing process. I needed him to come clean with these women and tell them the truth - that I had no idea about them and that he cheated. He refused. He said he didn’t see the point in that and just ghosted these girls. I told him I needed access to his phone, that I needed the passcode and I needed to read the full conversations with these women. He refused. He said he wasn’t going to let me read things that would only make me more angry.

Your husband is pissing me off too. He just doesn't get it (not unusual)! I hope he learns and can help you heal. He should not contact these women ever again. He needs to be in NO Contact (NC) with his affair partners (AP).

Please start with both of you reading a short book. It is the best "manual" for healing.

How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful Paperback – November 24, 2010

by Linda J. MacDonald

If he refuses to work at R you should read without him knowing

Love Must Be Tough: New Hope for Marriages in Crisis

by James C. Dobson

I do not have a relationship at this time. And neither did he. These women he was seeing were just people to have a physical relationship with and were not emotionally serious.

Are you sure his understanding and your understanding of your relationship is on the same page? It sounds like he may be using poly to just run around like a dog screwing anyone whenever he can. This is not what you signed up for, he sounds like a simple "cake eater" and you may just feeding him. Is he just a serial cheater who is using this relationship and you? I sure have experience in that! Just food for thought, not for healing.

Keep posting and read the Healing Library articles on this forum.

(((Stargazer))) try not to be lost for too long.

Loststargazer, I am sorry that you are here.

I think you will be surprised how many of us have some experience with swinging/poly/LGBTQ etc. We're a much less vanilla bunch than you might think

First & foremost- he most definitely cheated. Open types of relationships only work if you set the ground rules and follow them.

Once a person breaks the rules, they've cheated.

It doesn't matter that your relationship is poly. What matters is that he lied, he hid things from you, & is gaslighting you.

I don't have any advice other than read through the Healing Library.

I just wanted you to know that you are not alone and that we understand the difference.

Many hugs to you ((Loststargazer))

Typos

[This message edited by Adlham at 12:09 PM, September 13th (Sunday)]

Many of you are probably at this point thinking, ok - well she asked for this type of relationship so why is she here.

Nope. We'll argue about poly relationships, but most of us define cheating, at least in part, as 'violating an agreement that forms a basis for the relationship'.

I'm very sorry you've been betrayed. I'm very sorry your WSO isn't changing and isn't meeting your requirements. That's immensely painful.

Love just isn't enough to keep a relationship going.

You can't change him. You can only decide how you will respond. He's not changing. How will you handle that?

Organic -

Thank you. It feels so good to have someone validate my emotions right now. I was going to say you have no idea how good, but I guess unfortunately you probably do. I’m sorry for whatever you’re going through or have in the past.

I’ve been trying to read a lot, on here and the web in general because I know the only thing I can control is myself. So thank you very much for the books recommendations!

I honestly don’t know how to end my relationship. If what you say is true, that you have to be ready to end it in order to be able to fix it... I may be screwed. I don’t know how I would even go about ending it. I’m a stay at home mom and haven’t got the means to move on - something I need to work on a guess...

Adlham,

Thank you. I appreciate the understanding so much. It’s nice this site exists so that conversations like this can exist and make me feel like I’m not the one in the wrong here and other people feel for me and my situation. I have been trying to read through things in the library slowly but surely.

sisoon,

I am starting to feel like love isn’t enough. And I have no idea how to handle that fact. Just last night we ended up talking for a long time - some calm and some more heated. I ended up doing a lot of the listening and I kept hearing about how I made it too hard for him to be honest. And then today he went and met someone for a coffee 🤷‍♀️ Like our conversation last night meant nothing. He told me what he got out of the conversation is that I’m never going to be ok with him dating and so he was just going out. I didn’t yell but used my bitch/mom voice and said “you need to put on your big boy pants and deal with the fact that you fucked up. Talking to me may be difficult but not talking to me makes you into this man I don’t even know, this cheating asshole. And right now you’re going to do it again and you don’t even care. I’m appalled” and I just left.

I kind of feel trapped right now. I honestly cannot even fathom what is going through his head right now. But I do know he clearly does not love me

Watch his actions. They will tell you everything. Ignore his words. They only add to the confusion when he says one thing and does another.

As a poly person myself... this guy isn't ethical. What kind of person just randomly ghosts women he was having a relationship with? Even if you guys were just open and not poly (so sex is okay but not emotional entanglements), it's not right to treat other partners like merely holes for sexual fulfillment.

That's even before we get to him breaking your trust. I was honestly expecting to see that you guys had unrealistic rules or expectations like a lot of poly newbies do, but that's absolutely not the case. Giving your partner a heads up about a new prospect is simply basic respect. Details aren't necessary beyond that you're following whatever safer sex protocol you agreed upon, but absolutely- you should be aware of new potential partners and they should be aware of you. That's ethical polyamory, period.

NO, gaslighting and anger on his end are NOT normal responses. Please don't internalize that! Is that how you want to deal with issues for the rest of your life- he breaks an agreement and gets angry at you when you point it out? That isn't healthy or reasonable.

If you want this to work, he'd have to agree that what he did was wrong, and you'd both likely need to see a poly/kink aware counselor to help you navigate future issues, and I believe your boyfriend would need counseling on his own to deal with that anger issue.

Cheating in a poly relationship isn't about where you put your genitals- it's about violating explicitly negotiated agreements. So absolutely, you can cheat in an open or poly relationship. Don't let him tell you otherwise.

Poly/open relationships require MORE communication than mono ones. You have to be willing to be open and honest and vulnerable. You have to be able to balance multiple people's emotional and physical needs. It's a lot of work and requires one to do a lot of work on themselves. If he can't have a simple conversation with you? He sure doesn't sound poly to me. What do you want to bet that those women in his phone didn't know he was dating? That's not poly, because it's not ethical. Cheating is never, ever poly.

But honestly? If he treats you and the other women with this lack of respect? Believe me, poly women have their pick of the litter. Poly is 100% easier to navigate as a woman, if that's the path you choose for yourself regardless of your boyfriend. You will have NO issues at all finding compatible poly partners to date.

YOU DID NOT ASK FOR THIS BY BEING POLY.

If I can help, feel free to reply here or you are welcome to PM me. I would consider myself experienced and in two LTRs, currently blessed to be living with both of them because COVID.

[This message edited by PSTI at 8:35 PM, September 13th (Sunday)]

StarGazer,

It is late here but I am concerned about you.

Infidelity trauma can be brutal, are you taking care of your physical needs? Drink allot of water it helps the brain deal with emotions, be sure to eat well. Sleep is critical to health. Get some exercise, work out at home or if you can get to a gym, do it. I mean really start working out hard.

You are not legally married, that leaves some particular legal problems. See a lawyer ASAP, you need to understand were you really stand. Child support issues, do you two have financial entanglements like cars and a home. Does your state have common law marriages?

I honestly don’t know how to end my relationship. If what you say is true, that you have to be ready to end it in order to be able to fix it... I may be screwed. I don’t know how I would even go about ending it. I’m a stay at home mom and haven’t got the means to move on - something I need to work on a guess...

This is the next thing to work on. First you are a PRIZE, if you D you will have plenty of options in just a few minutes. PSTI mentions in her post, poly women are desired. I am sure she is correct.

My daughter(39) with two young boys is currently getting a D due to her husband cheating with a friend of hers. It took time to get her to see herself as a strong independent women. Finding a good job, daycare many tough things to work on. She did it, so can you, what education and experience do you have. BTW, she spent way to much time hoping he would commit back to the marriage. Her devoting herself to a workout program helped gain physical and mental strength.

Next, start doing the "180" that SI pounds at with any man in your situation.

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/confrontation/simplified-180.asp

Your financial situation needs some work, so start with an attorney, your skills, family help and government assistance like food stamps and health insurance.

When a you get your "ducks in a row"(yes I am old) you can work from a position of strength.

You will be able to tell him, "you can date and screw anything you want but not as my husband", then walk away, make a sandwich and let him figure his shit out.

I also think cussing can be a sign of mental weakness, but fuck that, this shit hurts. I can debate with the best and cuss with a sailor. Your anger is justified, use it.

Read "Love must be tough" it will explain some power dynamics in relationships. (Never accept the disrespect you are getting) Stop the "Pick me dance" you are doing, yes you are doing that if you really look at yourself.

PTSI, if your read this, please avail yourself to this OP and feel more than free to correct me on anything I might not understand well.

Sleep well StarGazer.

Respectfully,

Organic2003

[This message edited by Organic2003 at 2:14 AM, September 14th, 2020 (Monday)]

PTSI, if your read this, please avail yourself to this OP and feel more than free to correct me on anything I might not understand well.

I'm here- I'll follow this thread now in case there is anything I can do to help.

I just think that the biggest point to get home is that this isn't polyamory, and don't let him convince you that it is. The literal definition of polyamory is multiple ethical romantic relationships- ethical means that all parties involved (and metas/partners of partners ARE involved) know and consent to what is occurring.

I haven't even gotten to the part where I'm asking why this guy is going out with randoms in the middle of a global pandemic- that puts your health and safety at risk, and that of your children. You don't know what safety precautions these other partners are taking in their everyday lives. That doesn't say much about his respect for your health.

But yeah- anyone who thinks that poly is great for men who just want to have lots of sex? Hahahaha no. Nearly every time we see couples open up and manage to avoid the unicorn issue it's because the man wants other girlfriends. And then spends most of his time sitting at home watching his wife date. The kind of poly men who get a lot of dates are the ones who are decent human beings, open, honest, ethical people who are looking for actual relationships- and believe me, those are few and far between from the men who just want a piece of ass, and poly women see those coming from a mile away :P Probably why your boyfriend had to pretend he was single, sadly. But what does that say about his willingness to circumvent other people's limits?

Just remember- of the two of you, the only person you can get to change is YOU. You cannot wish him to be different, or yell at him, or give ultimatums and expect him to change. He's the only one who can do that. So if he doesn't see a problem in his behaviour and is using tools like gaslighting to try and get you to let him be... you need to think about what about yourself that you are willing to change. Doing the same thing over and over is the definition of insanity. Are you going to let go of your very reasonable expectations and just decide to be okay with him going out with whoever, whenever, and not letting you know about it? That's a valid choice for some people. I would say you deserve better, but if you were genuinely okay with it, that would be your choice to make. You don't seem to be okay with it, though.

That means you're going to have to choose between three choices that suck. There is no good choice. So what you have to do is think about it, and then hold your nose and pick the one that stinks the least. That's really all you can do. You can:

1) Do nothing. That's a choice and probably the path of least resistance. He will continue to do what he's going to do and you will continue to be upset by it and you guys will continue to argue. This option keeps you in infidelity, and I think you will end up with long term mental health damage from gaslighting.

2) Decide to accept what he's doing. Be okay with not knowing when or where or who he is with. That would involve recalibrating your expectations. How much of who you are does it require you to compromise? Only you can answer that. Consider the future- what happens when you meet a partner? Will you be able to plan dates and go out or if his schedule can be unpredictable will you be unable to arrange childcare? Technically this will get you out of infidelity if you decide it's no longer infidelity, but again, consider the price. You'd definitely have to thoroughly overhaul your relationship agreements- is he up for that conversation?

3) You tell him that breaking your agreements isn't going to work for you. But the catch is that you cannot say that expecting it to be an ultimatum. Forced change isn't real change and the best you can hope for is that the person pays lip service for a little while and then goes back to their old habits. If people don't change for themselves, it isn't going to stick. So if he doesn't want to go to counseling to sort himself out and to become a better partner for you- all on his own? There isn't going to be real, long term change, and you have to accept that. Read through the stories here. The marriages that are in Reconciliation are the ones where the WS realized they did wrong and put time and effort into fixing themselves. You aren't his mother, and you can't give him consequences or rules and expect that to change him. So if you can't accept his behaviour, that leaves you with one choice- remove yourself from the situation. I understand being a SAHM that won't be easy, but you can read here about how an in house separation might work for you while you start to get your ducks in a row. When people say you have to be willing to lose it to save it, it is because the WS sees what they are going to lose and realizes that they do have to make that genuine change. Because again- if they don't see it, nothing lasting will change.

And it's okay to think this is really drastic and maybe it's not that bad and remember all the good times! It's okay to be mixed up and confused and vacillate between memories of the good times and what's happening now. That is so perfectly normal. You don't have to make any decisions right now. It's okay to take time and just breathe and try to get through the day. Please know that. Eventually though you will have to decide what works for you otherwise you just drift into #1. If you want that choice, at least make it mindfully so that you don't resent it.

Big hugs if they're welcome. I'm here if I can support you.

Hey Lost...

Just checking in. Hope you are doing as ok as one can.

Thinking about you.

Hope all is as well as it can be. We're here for you if you need it.

This guy sounds like many I've met in the poly community - completely unethical - he thinks poly means do whatever the fuck he pleases with no accountability and obviously that's not at all what it means. He seems far to childish and selfish to engage in the level of accountability and integrity required to be poly or mono for that matter.

I'm really sorry you're going through this. I'm sure it feels like an even bigger betrayal because he had the freedom to do this honestly and still chose to betray you. What many of us have learned is that it's not about be allowed or not allowed to have sex with other people - cheaters don't want transparency. They somehow get off on sneaking, lying, pulling one over on their partner. It's power grabbing fuckery.

I hope many will chime in here for resources for you. I think it’s clear your boyfriend/common law husband does not see the polyamorous relationship the same way and is prepared to violate whatever boundaries you have.

Until he feels the full weight of violating those boundaries I doubt this situation will change. So consequences are necessary.

I feel out of my depth as I’m a monogamous man who has been faithful to one woman for a quarter of a century.

I did have a clarifying question for you. When you say this...

I do not have a relationship at this time.

Can you put some context around that? What does “at this time” mean? Had you been intimate with another man a month earlier, two months earlier, three months earlier? Were you still in contact with other men? Had you dated other men at this time, even if you weren’t in a relationship with them? Had you been intimate with other men in ONS’s during this time?

Just trying to understand the circumstances a little better as I find polyamory vey confusing.

Thumos, what difference does it make if she had another partner or not? They agreed to an open and poly relationship. As long as she was following their relationship agreements, she could have dated six boyfriends and had sex with her college football team. It's entirely irrelevant to the way her boyfriend is acting.

Hey all,

Sorry I haven’t been replying here... just got another hit - my father was diagnosed with cancer last Monday. But I have been reading still and trying to come to grips with everything. I’ve tried to put into action some of the advice you all have given me.

Organic - it hit me when you said I was playing the pick me game. I really thought on that for a while. I absolutely was, thank you for pointing it out to me.

He has since started sleeping on the couch.

I have been completely calm when talking to him since my one outburst on Tuesday (which I honestly felt justified in and felt better afterward) when I screamed at him, super loud screeching that came from down deep, that he wouldn’t know poly if “ethical” kicked him in his ass and all he was was a dirty slut. I was shaking after he stormed out of the house but I was also proud of myself for speaking that truth.

PSTI - that outburst probably came from what you said and how true it is that he is not poly. Haha!

Back to the being calm part... lol. I simply told him I cannot believe anything out of his mouth at this point. He has said he was sorry and he knows he was wrong but, just like you said The1stWife, it’s about actions not words. And I told him this. That he can apologize until he’s blue in the face (not that he has) but if he’s not going to change anything, then he just remains a cheating asshole.

I have sent him a few articles and things to read about reconciliation and how he needs to put in the work.

I told him my desire for reconciliation doesn’t matter one lick because I can’t do that. He is in the wrong so he needs to be the one to change and put forth the effort. I said I truly don’t believe that what he feels for me in genuine love because he said I love you just the same way as always when he kissed me goodbye to go fuck other women behind my back.

I think it got through a little bit because he asked me if i had questions for him about what happened. Of course I had about a hundred. Turns out there was three women he had sex with without my knowledge. He said he needed a break from answering questions so there hasn’t been more to go on since then. And I realize this is yet again him not understanding he needs to put in work.

I’m kind of letting it lie right now because I’m mentally taxed out with other stressors at the moment. But I think having this awful disease in my family right now is making it easier for me to put him into the in house separation category because I have bigger shit to deal with than his lies and where he’s putting his dick. I think I’m going through the stages of grief and am fully into the pure anger portion. Haha!

And PSTI - hugs are always welcome, thank you.

Thank you so much to everyone! The support I’m getting here helps so much mentally and emotionally. It’s nice to not feel alone in this!!

Loststargazer- if hugs are welcome, then have ALL the hugs! ((((hugs))))

I'm so sorry things are stressful with your father getting a diagnosis. I hope that he will be okay.

It does sound like your boyfriend just doesn't get it. He needs a break from answering questions? How about you need a break from wondering what he's done behind your back? Not cool. You deserve so much better than this kind of treatment.

Take whatever time you need for yourself, and we are here for you when you need a space to talk about it.